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   Study ties genetically engineered corn, soybeans to butterfly losses. Won't somebody please think of the larvae?

17 Mar 2012 10:10 AM   |   1212 clicks   |   Minneapolis Star Tribune
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bring to a festering boil    [TotalFark]  
GMO crops are a blight on this planet and Monsanto is evil.

17 Mar 2012 02:50 AM
Frederick    [TotalFark]  

bring to a festering boil: GMO crops are a blight on this planet and Monsanto is evil.


I tend to agree.

And I'm actually kind of surprised the religious havent come out in opposition to genetically modified crops in the way they have with cloning and stem cell research. Wouldnt this also encroach on God's territory?

17 Mar 2012 04:01 AM
phlegmmo    [TotalFark]  
Frederick:

*checks profile*

We seem to share a lot in common in our views of the world and how it should function. Will you be attending the Vegas gathering?

17 Mar 2012 04:12 AM
ZAZ    [TotalFark]  
Reserve more farmland for weeds.

17 Mar 2012 08:05 AM
NFA    [TotalFark]  

Frederick: And I'm actually kind of surprised the religious havent come out in opposition to genetically modified crops in the way they have with cloning and stem cell research. Wouldnt this also encroach on God's territory?


You miss the point, they haven't been TOLD to oppose it yet.

Why do religious groups rail about gays but virtually ignore adultery which is far more common and banned by one of the ten commandments??? It's because they haven't been told to attack adulterers like they've been TOLD to attack gays. Religious groups are taught that gays are a product of the liberal mindset and are a threat to our nation. Politics injected into the religious consciousness.

So until religious leaders stop kowtowing to 'fake conservative political values' and stop ignoring corporate violations of good stewardship, religions will never focus on the realities of our world.

17 Mar 2012 08:49 AM
jaylectricity    [TotalFark]  
So less tsunamis in Asia?

17 Mar 2012 10:15 AM
Down the Slippery Slope     

jaylectricity: So less fewer tsunamis in Asia?


17 Mar 2012 10:17 AM
1. Put snakes on plane     

ZAZ: Reserve more farmland for weeds.


Or just plant it along roadways and in gardens and such as per the dude in the article. This isn't a problem with genetically engineered crops. It's the desired result having an unintended consequence.

17 Mar 2012 10:21 AM
Kinek     
So. FTA:

"More important, they also found "that milkweed in the fields was disappearing," he said. That's because more farmers are using a new kind of genetically modified seed developed by Monsanto, Roundup-ready corn and soybeans, that contain a gene allowing the plants to withstand Roundup, or glyphosate. That allows farmers to spray their fields without harming the crop."

BZZZZZZT. Thanks for playing, try again. Looks like you've got your effect and cause mixed up.

This has only cursory things to do with GMOs. Roundup ready corn and soybeans did not cause milkweed in the fields to die. Farmers not wanting to have to deal with weeds in their fields and subsequently killing them caused the milkweed to die. I could plant Round-up ready corn or soybeans in a field year after year and the monarchs would thrive so long as I didn't spray. GMOs need not be involved at all. If you got everybody to go out to every field and weed incessantly, you'd still end up with the same result.

So. Let's rephrase this article.

'Farmers kill weeds in their fields because they'd like to grow crops without having to deal with weeds. Insects starve because their host plant is dead. People blame GMOs because blaming farmers for weeding doesn't grab attention'

17 Mar 2012 10:27 AM
SuperTramp    [TotalFark]  
Maybe I missed a Fark thread last Sunday -- the day it's estimated (by the U.S. census bureau) that the world's population passed the 7 Billion mark. (The U.N. estimate was October of last year.)

We're destroying entire species in our quest for raw materials and food, not to mention profits, and to lose the Monarch (perhaps we should begin calling it the Monsanto butterfly) would be another tragedy in a long list

but if the bees disappear, we're goners.

17 Mar 2012 10:27 AM
Ed Finnerty     
Butterflies, like pigeons, are flying rats.

17 Mar 2012 10:34 AM
tankjr     
The law of unintended consequences

17 Mar 2012 10:41 AM
RoxtarRyan     
Came for some reference to The Monarch, leaving disappointed.

17 Mar 2012 10:43 AM
SuperTramp    [TotalFark]  
Ed Finnerty

Butterflies, like pigeons, are flying rats.

This thread needs some Marty Robbins (new window)

17 Mar 2012 10:44 AM
1. Put snakes on plane     

SuperTramp: Maybe I missed a Fark thread last Sunday -- the day it's estimated (by the U.S. census bureau) that the world's population passed the 7 Billion mark. (The U.N. estimate was October of last year.)

We're destroying entire species in our quest for raw materials and food, not to mention profits, and to lose the Monarch (perhaps we should begin calling it the Monsanto butterfly) would be another tragedy in a long list

but if the bees disappear, we're goners.


SuperTramp, you ignorant slut.

1. The UN estimates that the world population will peak at 9 billion. The world can easily support that number, especially if people would just freaking stop raising animals for food and instead plant crops for direct human use.

2. The desire to kill the milkweed in the fields is (maybe) killing off the butterflies. And there's an easy solution.

3. The idea that we will starve if bees just disappear is a stupid myth.

17 Mar 2012 10:49 AM
SuperTramp    [TotalFark]  
1. Put snakes on plane

Is that you, Rush?

17 Mar 2012 10:57 AM
1. Put snakes on plane     

SuperTramp: 1. Put snakes on plane

Is that you, Rush?


You know you like it.

17 Mar 2012 10:59 AM
SuperTramp    [TotalFark]  
SuperTramp: 1. Put snakes on plane

Is that you, Rush?


1. Put snakes on plane

You know you like it.

Too bad you don't, Rushie-poo...

17 Mar 2012 11:04 AM
Johnny_Canuck     

bring to a festering boil: GMO crops are a blight on this planet and Monsanto is evil.


Agreed.

17 Mar 2012 11:05 AM
sno man    [TotalFark]  

Kinek: So. FTA:

"More important, they also found "that milkweed in the fields was disappearing," he said. That's because more farmers are using a new kind of genetically modified seed developed by Monsanto, Roundup-ready corn and soybeans, that contain a gene allowing the plants to withstand Roundup, or glyphosate. That allows farmers to spray their fields without harming the crop."

BZZZZZZT. Thanks for playing, try again. Looks like you've got your effect and cause mixed up.

This has only cursory things to do with GMOs. Roundup ready corn and soybeans did not cause milkweed in the fields to die. Farmers not wanting to have to deal with weeds in their fields and subsequently killing them caused the milkweed to die. I could plant Round-up ready corn or soybeans in a field year after year and the monarchs would thrive so long as I didn't spray. GMOs need not be involved at all. If you got everybody to go out to every field and weed incessantly, you'd still end up with the same result.

So. Let's rephrase this article.

'Farmers kill weeds in their fields because they'd like to grow crops without having to deal with weeds. Insects starve because their host plant is dead. People blame GMOs because blaming farmers for weeding doesn't grab attention'


The GMO's allow the gross over-use of the plant killer Round-up. The Round-up wipes out the milk weed. So it's not the direct cause, no, but it sets the ball in motion.

17 Mar 2012 11:12 AM
jso2897     
Keep it up, clever monkeys.
Just keep on f**kin' with shiat.
Sooner or later, you'll do it.
I don't know what "it" is going to be, but I have no doubt we'll figure it out.

17 Mar 2012 11:18 AM
Nina_Hartley's_Ass     
I have been repeatedly assured that Man is far too insignificant to thwart God's will in this way and that it is a sin to think otherwise.

17 Mar 2012 11:35 AM
Kinek     

sno man: Kinek: So. FTA:

"More important, they also found "that milkweed in the fields was disappearing," he said. That's because more farmers are using a new kind of genetically modified seed developed by Monsanto, Roundup-ready corn and soybeans, that contain a gene allowing the plants to withstand Roundup, or glyphosate. That allows farmers to spray their fields without harming the crop."

BZZZZZZT. Thanks for playing, try again. Looks like you've got your effect and cause mixed up.

This has only cursory things to do with GMOs. Roundup ready corn and soybeans did not cause milkweed in the fields to die. Farmers not wanting to have to deal with weeds in their fields and subsequently killing them caused the milkweed to die. I could plant Round-up ready corn or soybeans in a field year after year and the monarchs would thrive so long as I didn't spray. GMOs need not be involved at all. If you got everybody to go out to every field and weed incessantly, you'd still end up with the same result.

So. Let's rephrase this article.

'Farmers kill weeds in their fields because they'd like to grow crops without having to deal with weeds. Insects starve because their host plant is dead. People blame GMOs because blaming farmers for weeding doesn't grab attention'

The GMO's allow the gross over-use of the plant killer Round-up. The Round-up wipes out the milk weed. So it's not the direct cause, no, but it sets the ball in motion.


It allows for it. In the same way that planes allow for bombing. Or any number of false comparisons. The problem here is not the GMOs, but the application of extreme amounts of Round-up. Or just the fact that Farmers don't like weeds in their fields and will do things to stop them. So what do you propose? Not weeding?

17 Mar 2012 11:55 AM
Phocas     
Put snakes on plane, you ignoranter slut.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ crop_plants_pollinated_by_bees

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18442426/ ns/health-diet_and_nutrition/t/d e clining-honeybees-threat-food-supply/

http://www.nrdc.org/wildlife/animals/ files/bees.pdf

Of course, if that comment was just a troll, then good job on hooking me.

17 Mar 2012 12:05 PM
LouDobbsAwaaaay     

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: I have been repeatedly assured that Man is far too insignificant to thwart God's will in this way and that it is a sin to think otherwise.


THIS. Isn't it arrogant to believe that our tiny, insignificant species could possibly have even the slightest effect on this big ol' world? That's what I'm repeatedly told about the climate, anyway.

17 Mar 2012 12:09 PM
sno man    [TotalFark]  

Kinek: sno man: Kinek: So. FTA:

"More important, they also found "that milkweed in the fields was disappearing," he said. That's because more farmers are using a new kind of genetically modified seed developed by Monsanto, Roundup-ready corn and soybeans, that contain a gene allowing the plants to withstand Roundup, or glyphosate. That allows farmers to spray their fields without harming the crop."

BZZZZZZT. Thanks for playing, try again. Looks like you've got your effect and cause mixed up.

This has only cursory things to do with GMOs. Roundup ready corn and soybeans did not cause milkweed in the fields to die. Farmers not wanting to have to deal with weeds in their fields and subsequently killing them caused the milkweed to die. I could plant Round-up ready corn or soybeans in a field year after year and the monarchs would thrive so long as I didn't spray. GMOs need not be involved at all. If you got everybody to go out to every field and weed incessantly, you'd still end up with the same result.

So. Let's rephrase this article.

'Farmers kill weeds in their fields because they'd like to grow crops without having to deal with weeds. Insects starve because their host plant is dead. People blame GMOs because blaming farmers for weeding doesn't grab attention'

The GMO's allow the gross over-use of the plant killer Round-up. The Round-up wipes out the milk weed. So it's not the direct cause, no, but it sets the ball in motion.

It allows for it. In the same way that planes allow for bombing. Or any number of false comparisons. The problem here is not the GMOs, but the application of extreme amounts of Round-up. Or just the fact that Farmers don't like weeds in their fields and will do things to stop them. So what do you propose? Not weeding?


Planes allow for bombing like all farmers kill butterflies for false comparisons of equal measure.
The farmer can use the Round-up because of the genetically modified crop. They cannot use it and have anything much live using non GMO crops.
Traditional farming, which I'm sure included weeding and even other chemicals wasn't effecting the butterflies as much.

17 Mar 2012 12:21 PM
ZAZ    [TotalFark]  
Phocas

You need to be careful distinguishing "bees" as a synonym for "honey bees" from "bees" meaning thousands of species of pollen-eating insects.

Honey bees improve production by flowering plants that could be pollinated by other bees.

Honey bees, and social bees in general, are not specialist pollinators. Keeping the hive going over the course of a year requires visiting many different kinds of flowers, each in its own flowering season.

There are plants that will not survive without their own special pollinators. Those special pollinators are not honey bees. (The only one I can think of off hand is pollinated by a wasp, but I'm sure there are non-honey bees too.)

17 Mar 2012 12:35 PM
hudef     

SuperTramp: Maybe I missed a Fark thread last Sunday -- the day it's estimated (by the U.S. census bureau) that the world's population passed the 7 Billion mark. (The U.N. estimate was October of last year.)

We're destroying entire species in our quest for raw materials and food, not to mention profits, and to lose the Monarch (perhaps we should begin calling it the Monsanto butterfly) would be another tragedy in a long list

but if the bees disappear, we're goners.


Link (new window)

17 Mar 2012 12:52 PM
SweetHomeNowhere     

bring to a festering boil: GMO crops are a blight on this planet and Monsanto is evil.


Yes. It's true.

17 Mar 2012 12:52 PM
justGreg    [TotalFark]  
farking Gregor Johann Mendel and his GMO peas...

17 Mar 2012 01:39 PM
Coelacanth     
A few years ago you could find references to an event in Mexico where troops with flamethrowers were sent out to destroy patches of Monsanto's Biocorn which was killing butterflies and cross-pollinating with everything in sight, severely endangering crops heritage corn. I find zero mention of that anymore.

17 Mar 2012 02:06 PM
1. Put snakes on plane     

Phocas: Put snakes on plane, you ignoranter slut.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ crop_plants_pollinated_by_bees

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18442426/ ns/health-diet_and_nutrition/t/d e clining-honeybees-threat-food-supply/

http://www.nrdc.org/wildlife/animals/ files/bees.pdf

Of course, if that comment was just a troll, then good job on hooking me.


What is this, a bibliography for a fifth grade report on honey bees? The majority of human agriculture doesn't even use pollinators. And in the wild, other types of bees, flies, wasps, moths, and such are much more important pollinators.

17 Mar 2012 02:34 PM
jfarkinB     
So, in other words, what's really killing butterflies is the push to grow corn and soy to the exclusion of every plant species that can't be turned directly into food or biofuel.

I have no great love for Monsanto, especially their legal shenanigans, but I don't think this is a GMO issue.

17 Mar 2012 02:47 PM
cybernia     

Coelacanth: A few years ago you could find references to an event in Mexico where troops with flamethrowers were sent out to destroy patches of Monsanto's Biocorn which was killing butterflies and cross-pollinating with everything in sight, severely endangering crops heritage corn. I find zero mention of that anymore.


That's because it didn't happen. If you can point me to a reputable source and not some advocacy group, I will change my mind.

17 Mar 2012 02:47 PM
Jim_Callahan    [TotalFark]  
Between 1999 and 2010, the same period in which so-called GMO crops became the norm for farmers, the number of monarch eggs declined by an estimated 81 percent across the Midwest, the researchers say. That's because milkweed -- the host plant for the eggs and caterpillars produced by one of one of the most gaudy and widely recognized of all North American butterflies -- has nearly disappeared from farm fields, they found.

Oh, no, we're disrupting the delicate balance of nature by killing a species of weed plants that literally would never have been there in the first place if not for human intervention (the creation of the fields for farming).

....

...

...

Yeah, even though I'm pretty sure they're serious, I'm still going to have to give this one a "not sure if serious" rating. Changes in farming methods altering local conditions in the actual fields isn't really a huge deal.

17 Mar 2012 03:13 PM
AMonkey'sUncle     

Jim_Callahan: Between 1999 and 2010, the same period in which so-called GMO crops became the norm for farmers, the number of monarch eggs declined by an estimated 81 percent across the Midwest, the researchers say. That's because milkweed -- the host plant for the eggs and caterpillars produced by one of one of the most gaudy and widely recognized of all North American butterflies -- has nearly disappeared from farm fields, they found.

Oh, no, we're disrupting the delicate balance of nature by killing a species of weed plants that literally would never have been there in the first place if not for human intervention (the creation of the fields for farming).

....

...

...

Yeah, even though I'm pretty sure they're serious, I'm still going to have to give this one a "not sure if serious" rating. Changes in farming methods altering local conditions in the actual fields isn't really a huge deal.


Quadruplefacepalm.tif

17 Mar 2012 05:38 PM
SpaceBison     
spacebison.comView Full Size

17 Mar 2012 07:01 PM
abb3w    [TotalFark]  
How long until some treehugger mad science geek decides to solve this problem by splicing together some round-up ready milkweed?

17 Mar 2012 09:42 PM
jfarkinB     

abb3w: How long until some treehugger mad science geek decides to solve this problem by splicing together some round-up ready milkweed?


No need for geeks. Life, uh, finds a way.

17 Mar 2012 11:47 PM
prjindigo     
CLOTHIANADIN kills what we must keep to survive.

18 Mar 2012 01:52 AM
Coelacanth     

cybernia: That's because it didn't happen. If you can point me to a reputable source and not some advocacy group, I will change my mind.


I couldn't change your mind if I split apart the sutures in your skull and went to work with an ice cream scoop.

18 Mar 2012 03:17 AM
gulogulo     

1. Put snakes on plane: The world can easily support that number, especially if people would just freaking stop raising animals for food and instead plant crops for direct human use.


Citation needed?

18 Mar 2012 09:46 AM
gulogulo     

Jim_Callahan: Oh, no, we're disrupting the delicate balance of nature by killing a species of weed plants that literally would never have been there in the first place if not for human intervention (the creation of the fields for farming).


This is one of the dumbest, most misguided things I've read on the internet yet this morning. We need to do better in teaching science in schools (particularly ecology). Milkweeds are in fact a native species throughout the butterflies range (hence why the butterfly evolved with them). They are not 'weeds' in the sense that they are invasive Weed is just part of the name, but it is a natural inhabitant of prairies throughout the U.S. They're existence is annoying to the farmers, no doubt, but they were there first.

18 Mar 2012 09:50 AM
gulogulo     

gulogulo: They're


Their.

Good farking grief.

18 Mar 2012 09:51 AM
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