you ever looked at Osteen? the gaydar is going bonkers.

He's smart enough to break his own fall.

I think he smells an untapped fountain of "offerings"

MaudlinMutantMollusk: I think he smells an untapped fountain of "offerings"

Perhaps a chocolate fountain?

Bathia_Mapes: MaudlinMutantMollusk: I think he smells an untapped fountain of "offerings"

Perhaps a chocolate fountain?

A virtual Santorum of blessings

Bathia_Mapes

You should fix subby's headline for him. I believe it should be "Televangelist"

He's probably trying to scam them out of their money as well.

MaudlinMutantMollusk: You should fix subby's headline for him. I believe it should be "Televangelist"

Maybe Joel Osteen really loves to preach while wearing sports sandals. :-/

That guy is incredibly familiar with Narnia.

In other words, we can love teh gheys if they turn celibate and deny their identity.

Regardless of whether or not he's in the back of the closet, licking mothballs as a guilty pleasure, it's a nice change of pace to see some reporting on a religious figure actually not being an asshole toward gay people.

MaudlinMutantMollusk: Televangelist

You're right. I fixed the misspelling of "believe", but missed that. Must be getting old. :-D

How dare he attempt to preach Christian Love! Jesus never said anything about loving sinners or accepting people as they are.

So he's saying 'Being gay is a sin and you're going to burn in hell.'

But he still loves you. You're still welcome to join his church and give him money.

By gay people my book and give it to them

I really hate this whole thing. It's a bunch of nonsense. If you believe that homosexuality is a sin then you have to believe that homosexuals are going to hell. So you can say that you don't hate them, don't discriminate, want to treat them as equals, but you are still believing that they deserve to go to hell and be tortured for eternity or whatever hell entails. And this is especially damaging when you consider that young people hear this message, but aren't mentally developed enough to manage that level of double think. So they simply see gay is a sin, sins are bad, gays are bad. That is what enables anti-gay bullying in schools that has killed many people based solely on their sexuality or perceived sexuality.

If you are saying that gay is a sin in any way, regardless of however else you are acting, you are saying hateful and damaging things. It's just a significantly more polite and calm version of what the Westboro Baptist Church has been saying. There's not that extreme hate and bile right at the top, but the hate and bile is still in the message. As long as you are claiming that being gay is a sin you can't remove the hate from that message.

Britney Spear's Speculum: Buy

hmm guess my u isn't very sensitive.

"I believe the Scripture says that being gay is a sin,"

And I know this is a somewhat clichéd response by now, but I still haven't heard a real satisfying answer to it. I just want to ask them why do they believe that being gay is a sin, but ignore the other messages in the bible about shellfish and blended cloth being a sin and slavery being fine and dandy?

TheOmni: If you are saying that gay is a sin in any way, regardless of however else you are acting, you are saying hateful and damaging things. It's just a significantly more polite and calm version of what the Westboro Baptist Church has been saying. There's not that extreme hate and bile right at the top, but the hate and bile is still in the message. As long as you are claiming that being gay is a sin you can't remove the hate from that message.

Gotta call bullshiat here. Not that I have any love for Bible-thumping assholes, but using this logic, you can say that believing anything that anyone does is wrong for any reason means it's just hate and bile. Not every church is about fire and brimstone, and not every Christian is an angry hatemonger. There's no shortage of such in the news, but believe it or not, that's not always the case. Christianity believes that a great number of things are sinful. That doesn't mean they hate every sinner by default.

Godscrack: So he's saying 'Being gay is a sin and you're going to burn in hell.'

But he still loves you. You're still welcome to join his church and give him money.

Exactly. Well said. Thank you.

Durendal: TheOmni: If you are saying that gay is a sin in any way, regardless of however else you are acting, you are saying hateful and damaging things. It's just a significantly more polite and calm version of what the Westboro Baptist Church has been saying. There's not that extreme hate and bile right at the top, but the hate and bile is still in the message. As long as you are claiming that being gay is a sin you can't remove the hate from that message.

Gotta call bullshiat here. Not that I have any love for Bible-thumping assholes, but using this logic, you can say that believing anything that anyone does is wrong for any reason means it's just hate and bile. Not every church is about fire and brimstone, and not every Christian is an angry hatemonger. There's no shortage of such in the news, but believe it or not, that's not always the case. Christianity believes that a great number of things are sinful. That doesn't mean they hate every sinner by default.

If one believes that something someone else does is wrong and they deserve to go to hell for it, when that something doesn't actually harm anyone and is an intrinsic part of who they are then I have a hard time feeling that that is not hateful. And not every church is about fire and brimstone, and I totally could be mistaken here, but I was under the impression that the concepts of heaven, hell and eternal judgment were standard features. Are there Christian sects that don't believe in hell?

I don't think that they hate every sinner by default (at least, the ones that state they don't. There are plenty that openly state that they hate the sinner too), but that "hate the sin love the sinner" concept still focuses on the sin which leads other people (especially young people) to hate the sinner.

The other night I read an article where he said Romney AND OBAMA were Christians. I don't much like the prosperity gospel folk but I think he is OK.

And while he thinks homosexuality is a sin, I think we should respect him for actually being sorta Christlike. This is a huge step for people like him, and his followers.

Anyone that would apply a "hero" tag to a televangelist needs to be punched repeatedly in the kidneys.

Cagey B: Anyone that would apply a "hero" tag to a televangelist needs to be punched repeatedly in the kidneys.

With an icepick.

TheOmni: "I believe the Scripture says that being gay is a sin,"

And I know this is a somewhat clichéd response by now, but I still haven't heard a real satisfying answer to it. I just want to ask them why do they believe that being gay is a sin, but ignore the other messages in the bible about shellfish and blended cloth being a sin and slavery being fine and dandy?

Because the Bible is fiction, and god botherers have selective reading skills

ecmoRandomNumbers: Cagey B: Anyone that would apply a "hero" tag to a televangelist needs to be punched repeatedly in the kidneys.

With an icepick.

and in the brain

Britney Spear's Speculum: Britney Spear's Speculum: Buy

hmm guess my u isn't very sensitive.

My Wife says her u is very sensitive, I just can't find it.

Apparently morons will open their pockets if you say nothing at all pleasantly. I'm not surprised.

While I believe that organized religion is a sin against humanity, I don't think burning all televangelists at the stake is going to cure it. Maybe we can all try to get along.

/yeah right
/fark off, Osteen.

Now now, it's a start... At least use non-sharp objects that don't leave scars when you start pummeling him.

TheOmni: Durendal: TheOmni: If you are saying that gay is a sin in any way, regardless of however else you are acting, you are saying hateful and damaging things. It's just a significantly more polite and calm version of what the Westboro Baptist Church has been saying. There's not that extreme hate and bile right at the top, but the hate and bile is still in the message. As long as you are claiming that being gay is a sin you can't remove the hate from that message.

Gotta call bullshiat here. Not that I have any love for Bible-thumping assholes, but using this logic, you can say that believing anything that anyone does is wrong for any reason means it's just hate and bile. Not every church is about fire and brimstone, and not every Christian is an angry hatemonger. There's no shortage of such in the news, but believe it or not, that's not always the case. Christianity believes that a great number of things are sinful. That doesn't mean they hate every sinner by default.

If one believes that something someone else does is wrong and they deserve to go to hell for it, when that something doesn't actually harm anyone and is an intrinsic part of who they are then I have a hard time feeling that that is not hateful. And not every church is about fire and brimstone, and I totally could be mistaken here, but I was under the impression that the concepts of heaven, hell and eternal judgment were standard features. Are there Christian sects that don't believe in hell?

I don't think that they hate every sinner by default (at least, the ones that state they don't. There are plenty that openly state that they hate the sinner too), but that "hate the sin love the sinner" concept still focuses on the sin which leads other people (especially young people) to hate the sinner.

Well there's churches like MCC and the Unitarians that are GLBT friendly and preach that's not even what the bible was talking about.

/But you're right the hate the sin thing is a load of cr@p.

There are no gods. But hawking them is very profitable.

Osteen is a lying, hypocritical piece of shiat.
He thinks gays should not be discriminated against, yet opposes extending marriage rights. That IS discrimination.
He says he doesn't hate gays, yet believes that the creator of the universe will send them to hell and eternal damnation in the lake of fire.
Joel Osteen is a stupid, arrogant bigot. Slapping the hero tag on this bit of smarmy condescension is almost as ugly as the twisted little con artist.

Taima: While I believe that organized religion is a sin against humanity, I don't think burning all televangelists at the stake is going to cure it. Maybe we can all try to get along.

/yeah right
/fark off, Osteen.

Yeah, but it would be a good start.

TheOmni: "I believe the Scripture says that being gay is a sin,"

And I know this is a somewhat clichéd response by now, but I still haven't heard a real satisfying answer to it. I just want to ask them why do they believe that being gay is a sin, but ignore the other messages in the bible about shellfish and blended cloth being a sin and slavery being fine and dandy?

And what if we go to the real sins?

Is a glutton just as bad as a sexual sinner?



What about a idolater?



Or a thief?


Indiana Secretary of State Charlie White (R), guilty on six felony counts of voter fraud, theft, and perjury

Or what if it's heterosexual sexual misconduct?



Sorry, Joel. until you and your ilk treat these sinners just as badly as you treat gay people, your "I love the sinner but hate the sin" bullshat is just that, bullshat.

Homosexuality is a Learned Behaviour.

First, and most obvious, this article comes from the Daily Caller, which I trust as much as I do News of the World. (Come on, it's a right-wing nutjob website.)

Second, this is the second time today I've heard Joel Osteen cop out on a hugely important issue. This time it was us gays, and this morning when asked about illegal immigration he said (and I'm quoting): "It's a very complicated issue."

Third, and above all else, I find Osteen and his ilk (Benny Hinn, etc.) to be so two-faced it hurts to even think about it. Seriously, they preach "Christian" values while standing on the pulpit pulling in money hand over fist while wearing a $5,000 suit. I'm no practicing Catholic, but I could swear that somewhere in the Bible is a lesson in how we shouldn't be consumed by wealth and the trappings thereof. So when these pricks get rid of the suits and the giant houses and the cars/helicopters/yachts/private jets, then maybe I'll think about listening.

TheOmni: If one believes that something someone else does is wrong and they deserve to go to hell for it, when that something doesn't actually harm anyone and is an intrinsic part of who they are then I have a hard time feeling that that is not hateful.

Inherent in most Christian belief systems (there are lots of flavors, you know) is the idea that all (meaning everyone above an age where they become accountable for their actions) have sinned and therefore fall short of deserving a pleasant afterlife. Christianity is about salvation through the grace of God, or about salvation through belief in Jesus as the Christ, or about salvation through acts of penitence, depending on whether you more closely follow Reformed, Fundamental, or Orthodox thinking.

Taima: While I believe that organized religion is a sin against humanity, I don't think burning all televangelists at the stake is going to cure it. Maybe we can all try to get along.

/yeah right
/fark off, Osteen.

no, it just would be a good idea - the same reason that eating fruit might be good for you but you might just prefer to eat it because it tastes good.

DingleberryMoose: Inherent in most Christian belief systems (there are lots of flavors, you know) is the idea that all (meaning everyone above an age where they become accountable for their actions) have sinned and therefore fall short of deserving a pleasant afterlife. Christianity is about salvation through the grace of God, or about salvation through belief in Jesus as the Christ, or about salvation through acts of penitence, depending on whether you more closely follow Reformed, Fundamental, or Orthodox thinking.

Sadly, they don't really act like that, do they? They ignore the log in their own eyes (look at the sinners posted above) while picking out things wrong with the people they point at.

TheOmni: I really hate this whole thing. It's a bunch of nonsense. If you believe that homosexuality is a sin then you have to believe that homosexuals are going to hell. So you can say that you don't hate them, don't discriminate, want to treat them as equals, but you are still believing that they deserve to go to hell and be tortured for eternity or whatever hell entails. And this is especially damaging when you consider that young people hear this message, but aren't mentally developed enough to manage that level of double think. So they simply see gay is a sin, sins are bad, gays are bad. That is what enables anti-gay bullying in schools that has killed many people based solely on their sexuality or perceived sexuality.

If you are saying that gay is a sin in any way, regardless of however else you are acting, you are saying hateful and damaging things. It's just a significantly more polite and calm version of what the Westboro Baptist Church has been saying. There's not that extreme hate and bile right at the top, but the hate and bile is still in the message. As long as you are claiming that being gay is a sin you can't remove the hate from that message.

You commit the naturalistic fallacy, the is:ought fallacy. Suppose it is a sin to not attend church on Sunday. That doesn't mean I want people who don't attend church to go to hell even if I might believe that's their destiny. I don't attend any church and I don't believe in such destinies, but that's beside the point. There remains a distinct difference between what I want to happen and what I might believe will happen.

This is not to defend anybody's beliefs or lack of beliefs. It is just a basic matter of logic.

Shouldn't even waste his time talking about it. Dick Cheney has been more pro-gay than anyone in politics for decades but since he's not a progressive he's been ignored on that point and vilified on every other.

ck1938: Shouldn't even waste his time talking about it. Dick Cheney has been more pro-gay than anyone in politics for decades but since he's not a progressive he's been ignored on that point and vilified on every other.

How is he progressive? And more importantly, if he believes in gay rights, what's he done about it? Less then nothing. He can believe whatever he wants - by their actions they shall be known.

Cewley: you ever looked at Osteen? the gaydar is going bonkers.

A truly straight person would know that "choosing" to be straight or gay is bullshiat, because they aren't conflicted with desires for the same sex that they are always trying to repress. Only a closeted gay person is capable of thinking that someone can just roll out of bed one morning, decide that being gay is fashionable, and suddenly start wanting to suck dick. Exhibit A: Marcus Bachmann.

I don't usually biatch about the hero tag but seriously, Joel farking Osteen is not a hero. He's a farking douchebag.

saintstryfe: ck1938: Shouldn't even waste his time talking about it. Dick Cheney has been more pro-gay than anyone in politics for decades but since he's not a progressive he's been ignored on that point and vilified on every other.

How is he progressive? And more importantly, if he believes in gay rights, what's he done about it? Less then nothing. He can believe whatever he wants - by their actions they shall be known.

Heh, golf clap, like to see his daughter get a wedding that a vice Presidents daughter deserves.

letrole: Homosexuality is a Learned Behaviour.

Le Troll is your surname.

saintstryfe: DingleberryMoose: Inherent in most Christian belief systems (there are lots of flavors, you know) is the idea that all (meaning everyone above an age where they become accountable for their actions) have sinned and therefore fall short of deserving a pleasant afterlife. Christianity is about salvation through the grace of God, or about salvation through belief in Jesus as the Christ, or about salvation through acts of penitence, depending on whether you more closely follow Reformed, Fundamental, or Orthodox thinking.

Sadly, they don't really act like that, do they? They ignore the log in their own eyes (look at the sinners posted above) while picking out things wrong with the people they point at.

Some do, some don't. Generally speaking, the more rigid the proscriptions, the more hypocritical the behavior. Followers of Reformed theology admit their shortcomings and work to get better. The PCUSA is having a hell of a time over gay ordination right now. I'm vocally in favor, and I attend presbytery meetings and vote that way, but some of the more conservative churches are going to leave the denomination over it and that's sad. I'm also in favor of gay marriage, but that's because I believe we all should be equal under the law.

So he's going against God's pronouncement then? And admits it?

That's what his "logic" amounts to.

Really he just wants to have it both ways. Appeal to the fire-and-brimstone types that bring in the $$$, while trying to not alienating everyone else. Typical hypocritical televangelist behavior.