A cousin of mine is a fan of this dude and I just... don't get it.

His smarmy mug coupled with his "Jaysus wants you to have a McMansion and a Nice Car" interpretation of the bible... are just... creepy. And gross. And it's not like dishonest televangelists are a new thing.

buckler: letrole: Homosexuality is a Learned Behaviour.

Le Troll is your surname.

You forgot trolling is a learned behavior ; )

Joel Osteen is not a pastor. He is a marketer, a salesman, and a motivational speaker pretending to be a pastor. He has large seminars, not sermons, where he oversells strategies for personal fulfillment through God. He even has a squeaky clean image like a Christian Tony Robbins. Occasionally he will say "God" and "Jesus", but these terms are not requisite to understanding his message. He doesn't quote scripture, he doesn't denounce sin, and his workshops are inspirational, positive Pollyanna optimism with very little actual religious content.

This has made him enormously successful with the new religious and the casual religious set - people who treat the Bible like the Terms of Agreement page on a software license: They don't read it, they just skip to the bottom and click "I Agree". Biblical literalism and incessant quoting of scripture - while impressive - isn't going to win these people over. What Osteen has done is create a need they didn't have before they came to see him, a time-honored trick befitting his background in marketing and television production. In effect, Osteen has sold Christianity to people who aren't interested in Jesus or Christianity. He is to be commended for that even if it's all just false prophet theatrics.

There is certainly a lucrative market in promising Heaven to a class of cafeteria Christians who are only interested in knowing that God exists. Everyone wants to go to Heaven but no one wants to put in the groundwork required to get there. After all, if you can't pick and choose what God likes or dislikes about you, what's the point of having a God?

What Osteen has done is what every famous pop philosopher and demagogue has done throughout history: Tell people what they want to hear and make sure it doesn't compromise their existing lifestyle. I suppose God should do something Job-like to this guy but there are a lot worse people in history who've gotten away with far more.

DingleberryMoose: saintstryfe: DingleberryMoose: Inherent in most Christian belief systems (there are lots of flavors, you know) is the idea that all (meaning everyone above an age where they become accountable for their actions) have sinned and therefore fall short of deserving a pleasant afterlife. Christianity is about salvation through the grace of God, or about salvation through belief in Jesus as the Christ, or about salvation through acts of penitence, depending on whether you more closely follow Reformed, Fundamental, or Orthodox thinking.

Sadly, they don't really act like that, do they? They ignore the log in their own eyes (look at the sinners posted above) while picking out things wrong with the people they point at.

Some do, some don't. Generally speaking, the more rigid the proscriptions, the more hypocritical the behavior. Followers of Reformed theology admit their shortcomings and work to get better. The PCUSA is having a hell of a time over gay ordination right now. I'm vocally in favor, and I attend presbytery meetings and vote that way, but some of the more conservative churches are going to leave the denomination over it and that's sad. I'm also in favor of gay marriage, but that's because I believe we all should be equal under the law.

See, you really are a yummy daddy : )

/Nothing against Christians, but some people that have pulpits, wow.

Sure, 'cause separate BUT equal has always gone over so well.

Sorry folks, not buying it. Love thy neighbor and be grateful that your lesbian neighbors could come by this evening and feed the dog while you were at work.

/true story
//slashies

"It is OK to be gay. Send me your gay dollars and know that when you go to hell your gay dollars we buy me another car. And whenever eternity in hell gets too unbearable think of me in my straight car purchased with your gay dollars. That will lighten your burden."

It's my surname:: Homosexuality is a Learned Behaviour.

So is spelling behavior as behaviour.

/ Yob.

Blurg!

/had.a bunch of indignant statements, but left the thread drunk.

Osteen is as much a theologian as Dr. Phil is a medical doctor.

/sanctimonious asses

So that one comment makes up for all the decades of him swinging Grandmothers out of their live savings, is it?

letrole: Homosexuality is a Learned Behaviour.

Swindling.

/Fark you, Spelling Nazis. It's after 3 am here and the can of Red Bull is wearing off.

Hero tag? Bullshiat.

He stopped short of saying anything that would upset his current idiotic customers, while trying to get new gay money flowing into his coffers.

"They're going to hell and they shouldn't be able to marry, but I don't discriminate against them!"
Once again showing a small shred of humanity as a religious person warrants the hero tag.

Why is some bigot a "Hero" for realizing something that anyone else would see as common sense?

TheOmni: I really hate this whole thing. It's a bunch of nonsense. If you believe that homosexuality is a sin then you have to believe that homosexuals are going to hell. So you can say that you don't hate them, don't discriminate, want to treat them as equals, but you are still believing that they deserve to go to hell and be tortured for eternity or whatever hell entails. And this is especially damaging when you consider that young people hear this message, but aren't mentally developed enough to manage that level of double think. So they simply see gay is a sin, sins are bad, gays are bad. That is what enables anti-gay bullying in schools that has killed many people based solely on their sexuality or perceived sexuality.

If you are saying that gay is a sin in any way, regardless of however else you are acting, you are saying hateful and damaging things. It's just a significantly more polite and calm version of what the Westboro Baptist Church has been saying. There's not that extreme hate and bile right at the top, but the hate and bile is still in the message. As long as you are claiming that being gay is a sin you can't remove the hate from that message.

Just a thought, does believing that they're going to eternal torment imply believing that it's actually evil? What if someone believes that God is evil, or at least has a mean streak? Thus, believing that God is a jackass and will torture gay people, but believing that God is in the wrong for doing so...

/The above pretty much is a hypothetical. I don't think there are theists who will say that God is at least slightly evil.

Gays have the most disposable income, and a prosperity preacher like him can't afford to turn away willing suckers, even if they suck dick six days out of the week.

wademh: TheOmni: I really hate this whole thing. It's a bunch of nonsense. If you believe that homosexuality is a sin then you have to believe that homosexuals are going to hell. So you can say that you don't hate them, don't discriminate, want to treat them as equals, but you are still believing that they deserve to go to hell and be tortured for eternity or whatever hell entails. And this is especially damaging when you consider that young people hear this message, but aren't mentally developed enough to manage that level of double think. So they simply see gay is a sin, sins are bad, gays are bad. That is what enables anti-gay bullying in schools that has killed many people based solely on their sexuality or perceived sexuality.

If you are saying that gay is a sin in any way, regardless of however else you are acting, you are saying hateful and damaging things. It's just a significantly more polite and calm version of what the Westboro Baptist Church has been saying. There's not that extreme hate and bile right at the top, but the hate and bile is still in the message. As long as you are claiming that being gay is a sin you can't remove the hate from that message.

You commit the naturalistic fallacy, the is:ought fallacy. Suppose it is a sin to not attend church on Sunday. That doesn't mean I want people who don't attend church to go to hell even if I might believe that's their destiny. I don't attend any church and I don't believe in such destinies, but that's beside the point. There remains a distinct difference between what I want to happen and what I might believe will happen.

This is not to defend anybody's beliefs or lack of beliefs. It is just a basic matter of logic.

Logic as dictated by a fairy tale written 2,000 years ago by a very different culture halfway across the planet, which also says that eating a shrimp will send you to hell as surely as genociding a country (wait, didn't God tell his followers to do exactly that if the people didn't want to convert?).

Here's a much simpler idea: gays are given the rights and freedoms enjoyed by the rest of humanity and keep doing their thing, "Christians" stop being obsessed with gay sex and screaming for them to die and burn,and life goes on.

Genevieve Marie: Jaysus wants you to have a McMansion and a Nice Car

The thing about prosperity gospel is that it completely ignores Matthew 19:16-24, Mark 10:17-25; Luke 18:18-25; Matthew 6:24; 1 Timothy 6:9-10; Mark 12:41-44.

Basically, teachings of Christ.

tinfoil-hat maggie: /Nothing against Christians, but some people that have pulpits, wow.

Hiya, darlin'! And, yeah, pretty much THIS.

10/10 subby. You even got me to bite.

Godscrack: So he's saying 'Being gay is a sin and you're going to burn in hell.'

But he still loves you. You're still welcome to join his church and give him money.
No. He didn't say that at all. Just because you put something in quotes doesn't make it true. Idiot.

TheOmni: I really hate this whole thing. It's a bunch of nonsense. If you believe that homosexuality is a sin then you have to believe that homosexuals are going to hell. So you can say that you don't hate them, don't discriminate, want to treat them as equals, but you are still believing that they deserve to go to hell and be tortured for eternity or whatever hell entails. And this is especially damaging when you consider that young people hear this message, but aren't mentally developed enough to manage that level of double think. So they simply see gay is a sin, sins are bad, gays are bad. That is what enables anti-gay bullying in schools that has killed many people based solely on their sexuality or perceived sexuality.

If you are saying that gay is a sin in any way, regardless of however else you are acting, you are saying hateful and damaging things. It's just a significantly more polite and calm version of what the Westboro Baptist Church has been saying. There's not that extreme hate and bile right at the top, but the hate and bile is still in the message. As long as you are claiming that being gay is a sin you can't remove the hate from that message.

Thank you Biblical scholar, TheOmni. In reality, the Bible says that all have sinned. If sinners couldn't go to heaven all would be condemned to hell. Some Christian sects actually believe that all you have to do is believe and that once you do you're going to heaven even if you later recant that belief. I could provide supporting scripture, but I won't bother.

Further, it's hard to bully those you treat as equals, but don't let that stop you from your own form of bullying.

Youthful homosexual bashing is not always rooted in religion.

/not religious, just not ignorant.or hateful of large groups of people based on the behaviors of a subset of that group.

Keizer_Ghidorah: Here's a much simpler idea: gays are given the rights and freedoms enjoyed by the rest of humanity and keep doing their thing, "Christians" stop being obsessed with gay sex and screaming for them to die and burn,and life goes on.

Appreciate line of your cut sail, newsletter subscription, send some of what you're smoking this way, et cetera. Who you boink is between you, them, God, and the sheets. Leave me out of it and I'll stay out of it.

TheOmni: I really hate this whole thing. It's a bunch of nonsense. If you believe that homosexuality is a sin then you have to believe that homosexuals are going to hell. So you can say that you don't hate them, don't discriminate, want to treat them as equals, but you are still believing that they deserve to go to hell and be tortured for eternity or whatever hell entails. And this is especially damaging when you consider that young people hear this message, but aren't mentally developed enough to manage that level of double think. So they simply see gay is a sin, sins are bad, gays are bad. That is what enables anti-gay bullying in schools that has killed many people based solely on their sexuality or perceived sexuality.

If you are saying that gay is a sin in any way, regardless of however else you are acting, you are saying hateful and damaging things. It's just a significantly more polite and calm version of what the Westboro Baptist Church has been saying. There's not that extreme hate and bile right at the top, but the hate and bile is still in the message. As long as you are claiming that being gay is a sin you can't remove the hate from that message.

No. Religious people also say drinking alcohol is a sin. They say having sex before marriage is a sin. You don't see people being bullied for those things. Your argument fails. Gays get bullied in school because they partake in a lifestyle that is totally unnatural. It's also seen as a lot more disgusting than sex before marriage. I'm not condoning the bullying, in fact I would love to see that go away. But they definitely aren't getting bullied because of what the churches say, you are giving them too much credit.

/an athiest
//Homosexuality goes against the laws of nature

SuwonROKs: TheOmni: I really hate this whole thing. It's a bunch of nonsense. If you believe that homosexuality is a sin then you have to believe that homosexuals are going to hell. So you can say that you don't hate them, don't discriminate, want to treat them as equals, but you are still believing that they deserve to go to hell and be tortured for eternity or whatever hell entails. And this is especially damaging when you consider that young people hear this message, but aren't mentally developed enough to manage that level of double think. So they simply see gay is a sin, sins are bad, gays are bad. That is what enables anti-gay bullying in schools that has killed many people based solely on their sexuality or perceived sexuality.

If you are saying that gay is a sin in any way, regardless of however else you are acting, you are saying hateful and damaging things. It's just a significantly more polite and calm version of what the Westboro Baptist Church has been saying. There's not that extreme hate and bile right at the top, but the hate and bile is still in the message. As long as you are claiming that being gay is a sin you can't remove the hate from that message.

No. Religious people also say drinking alcohol is a sin. They say having sex before marriage is a sin. You don't see people being bullied for those things. Your argument fails. Gays get bullied in school because they partake in a lifestyle that is totally unnatural. It's also seen as a lot more disgusting than sex before marriage. I'm not condoning the bullying, in fact I would love to see that go away. But they definitely aren't getting bullied because of what the churches say, you are giving them too much credit.

/an athiest
//Homosexuality goes against the laws of nature

8/10

SuwonROKs: TheOmni: I really hate this whole thing. It's a bunch of nonsense. If you believe that homosexuality is a sin then you have to believe that homosexuals are going to hell. So you can say that you don't hate them, don't discriminate, want to treat them as equals, but you are still believing that they deserve to go to hell and be tortured for eternity or whatever hell entails. And this is especially damaging when you consider that young people hear this message, but aren't mentally developed enough to manage that level of double think. So they simply see gay is a sin, sins are bad, gays are bad. That is what enables anti-gay bullying in schools that has killed many people based solely on their sexuality or perceived sexuality.

If you are saying that gay is a sin in any way, regardless of however else you are acting, you are saying hateful and damaging things. It's just a significantly more polite and calm version of what the Westboro Baptist Church has been saying. There's not that extreme hate and bile right at the top, but the hate and bile is still in the message. As long as you are claiming that being gay is a sin you can't remove the hate from that message.

No. Religious people also say drinking alcohol is a sin. They say having sex before marriage is a sin. You don't see people being bullied for those things. Your argument fails. Gays get bullied in school because they partake in a lifestyle that is totally unnatural. It's also seen as a lot more disgusting than sex before marriage. I'm not condoning the bullying, in fact I would love to see that go away. But they definitely aren't getting bullied because of what the churches say, you are giving them too much credit.

/an athiest
//Homosexuality goes against the laws of nature

Against the laws of nature... Right...

FreetardoRivera: SuwonROKs: =
/an athiest
//Homosexuality goes against the laws of nature

8/10

Nope. The part I quoted you quoting ruined it.

SuwonROKs: TheOmni: I really hate this whole thing. It's a bunch of nonsense. If you believe that homosexuality is a sin then you have to believe that homosexuals are going to hell. So you can say that you don't hate them, don't discriminate, want to treat them as equals, but you are still believing that they deserve to go to hell and be tortured for eternity or whatever hell entails. And this is especially damaging when you consider that young people hear this message, but aren't mentally developed enough to manage that level of double think. So they simply see gay is a sin, sins are bad, gays are bad. That is what enables anti-gay bullying in schools that has killed many people based solely on their sexuality or perceived sexuality.

If you are saying that gay is a sin in any way, regardless of however else you are acting, you are saying hateful and damaging things. It's just a significantly more polite and calm version of what the Westboro Baptist Church has been saying. There's not that extreme hate and bile right at the top, but the hate and bile is still in the message. As long as you are claiming that being gay is a sin you can't remove the hate from that message.

No. Religious people also say drinking alcohol is a sin. They say having sex before marriage is a sin. You don't see people being bullied for those things. Your argument fails. Gays get bullied in school because they partake in a lifestyle that is totally unnatural. It's also seen as a lot more disgusting than sex before marriage. I'm not condoning the bullying, in fact I would love to see that go away. But they definitely aren't getting bullied because of what the churches say, you are giving them too much credit.

/an athiest
//Homosexuality goes against the laws of nature

If that was true, then why are there gay animals, from giraffes to fish? Why are gay children born to straight parents? Why does gay happen at all? If it wasn't natural, it wouldn't exist.

Godscrack: So he's saying 'Being gay is a sin and you're going to burn in hell.'

I don't think you understand how Christianity works, but hey, since everyone on Fark hates Christians, let's just meme our way to the answer!

FreetardoRivera: SuwonROKs:8/10

Might wanna up that some. Less than 2 minutes below your post he got a bite complete with a functional link.

CrispFlows: Genevieve Marie: Jaysus wants you to have a McMansion and a Nice Car

The thing about prosperity gospel is that it completely ignores Matthew 19:16-24, Mark 10:17-25; Luke 18:18-25; Matthew 6:24; 1 Timothy 6:9-10; Mark 12:41-44.

Basically, teachings of Christ.

I love how so many farkers have a better understanding of the bible than a lot of so called christians. Granted most of us were raised that way, and just actually read the bible.

/Now agnostic/pagan sorta

Happy Hours: TheOmni: I really hate this whole thing. It's a bunch of nonsense. If you believe that homosexuality is a sin then you have to believe that homosexuals are going to hell. So you can say that you don't hate them, don't discriminate, want to treat them as equals, but you are still believing that they deserve to go to hell and be tortured for eternity or whatever hell entails. And this is especially damaging when you consider that young people hear this message, but aren't mentally developed enough to manage that level of double think. So they simply see gay is a sin, sins are bad, gays are bad. That is what enables anti-gay bullying in schools that has killed many people based solely on their sexuality or perceived sexuality.

If you are saying that gay is a sin in any way, regardless of however else you are acting, you are saying hateful and damaging things. It's just a significantly more polite and calm version of what the Westboro Baptist Church has been saying. There's not that extreme hate and bile right at the top, but the hate and bile is still in the message. As long as you are claiming that being gay is a sin you can't remove the hate from that message.

Thank you Biblical scholar, TheOmni. In reality, the Bible says that all have sinned. If sinners couldn't go to heaven all would be condemned to hell. Some Christian sects actually believe that all you have to do is believe and that once you do you're going to heaven even if you later recant that belief. I could provide supporting scripture, but I won't bother.

Further, it's hard to bully those you treat as equals, but don't let that stop you from your own form of bullying.

Youthful homosexual bashing is not always rooted in religion.

/not religious, just not ignorant.or hateful of large groups of people based on the behaviors of a subset of that group.

The first two humans listened to a talking snake and ate from a tree which made them smart, which made God so angry he cursed his entire creation to punish the two humans and all their descendents until such time as he decides to destroy everything and live forever with the tiny percentage of humans he chose to be with while the rest suffer in indescribable torment for the rest of existence. But God is love and created everything because of that love, and we are his most precious creation.

Final Fantasy plots are less convoluted and ridiculous than the Bible.

Explicitly Differentiated: Godscrack: So he's saying 'Being gay is a sin and you're going to burn in hell.'

I don't think you understand how Christianity works, but hey, since everyone on Fark hates Christians, let's just meme our way to the answer!

Care to elaborate on your christian viewpoint?

/Nothing against christians, my parents are.

Explicitly Differentiated: Godscrack: So he's saying 'Being gay is a sin and you're going to burn in hell.'

I don't think you understand how Christianity works, but hey, since everyone on Fark hates Christians, let's just meme our way to the answer!

What else are we supposed to think? The loudest Christians are the ones preaching hate and discrimination towards gays, women, minorities. Maybe if the rest of Christianity would tell those loudmouths to sit down and shut up, we wouldn't be having these problems. But if you're gonna sit there and let your book of love and tolerance and brotherhood be twisted by these vermin without complaint, don't be upset when the oppressed get angry at you for not helping.

tinfoil-hat maggie: I love how so many farkers have a better understanding of the bible than a lot of so called christians. Granted most of us were raised that way, and just actually read the bible.

That's why I attend a different denomination than I did as a kid. What I heard from the pulpit didn't match the book from which it was supposedly gleaned.

Keizer_Ghidorah: The first two humans listened to a talking snake and ate from a tree which made them smart, which made God so angry he cursed his entire creation to punish the two humans and all their descendents until such time as he decides to destroy everything and live forever with the tiny percentage of humans he chose to be with while the rest suffer in indescribable torment for the rest of existence. But God is love and created everything because of that love, and we are his most precious creation.

Oversimplify much?

FreetardoRivera: SuwonROKs: TheOmni: I really hate this whole thing. It's a bunch of nonsense. If you believe that homosexuality is a sin then you have to believe that homosexuals are going to hell. So you can say that you don't hate them, don't discriminate, want to treat them as equals, but you are still believing that they deserve to go to hell and be tortured for eternity or whatever hell entails. And this is especially damaging when you consider that young people hear this message, but aren't mentally developed enough to manage that level of double think. So they simply see gay is a sin, sins are bad, gays are bad. That is what enables anti-gay bullying in schools that has killed many people based solely on their sexuality or perceived sexuality.

If you are saying that gay is a sin in any way, regardless of however else you are acting, you are saying hateful and damaging things. It's just a significantly more polite and calm version of what the Westboro Baptist Church has been saying. There's not that extreme hate and bile right at the top, but the hate and bile is still in the message. As long as you are claiming that being gay is a sin you can't remove the hate from that message.

No. Religious people also say drinking alcohol is a sin. They say having sex before marriage is a sin. You don't see people being bullied for those things. Your argument fails. Gays get bullied in school because they partake in a lifestyle that is totally unnatural. It's also seen as a lot more disgusting than sex before marriage. I'm not condoning the bullying, in fact I would love to see that go away. But they definitely aren't getting bullied because of what the churches say, you are giving them too much credit.

/an athiest
//Homosexuality goes against the laws of nature

Huh? So Gays aren't humans now?
I'm so confused. *sarcasm*
How about "It just doesn't matter" and we leave it alone. Can we do that? Why is this important? What does it matter? There have been gazillions of gay individuals and there's gonna be gazillions more, nothing anyone does or thinks or feels is going to change this.
And Osteen (who ever the fark he is) better stay alert or some christian will off him.
Beware the "Death Squads for God".
sheesh this is stupid

Explicitly Differentiated: Godscrack: So he's saying 'Being gay is a sin and you're going to burn in hell.'

I don't think you understand how Christianity works, but hey, since everyone on Fark hates Christians, let's just meme our way to the answer!

So sinfulness won't land us in Hell? Then why the fark do Christians keep telling us it will?

"I am sensing heil levels of Godwin approaching."

Keizer_Ghidorah: The loudest Christians are the ones preaching hate and discrimination towards gays, women, minorities. Maybe if the rest of Christianity would tell those loudmouths to sit down and shut up, we wouldn't be having these problems.

Agreed.

Keizer_Ghidorah: But if you're gonna sit there and let your book of love and tolerance and brotherhood be twisted by these vermin without complaint, don't be upset when the oppressed get angry at you for not helping.

Some of us do, in our own small ways. In a generation or so, this will be a very different conversation. We've finally started to teach our children to love rather than condemn.

DingleberryMoose: FreetardoRivera: SuwonROKs:8/10

Might wanna up that some. Less than 2 minutes below your post he got a bite complete with a functional link.

No 8/10 was more than generous. I would have only gone 5/10 and bumped it to 6/10 maybe.

Although these types of threads are different since any vehement troll that goes unanswered could influence someone into believing the troll is correct.

/And we're talking people here

MaudlinMutantMollusk: I think he smells an untapped fountain of "offerings"

If he can stop some of this hate in it's tracks, I'm all for giving him a shopping cart and letting him into the Fort Knox for fifteen minutes.

DingleberryMoose: tinfoil-hat maggie: I love how so many farkers have a better understanding of the bible than a lot of so called christians. Granted most of us were raised that way, and just actually read the bible.

That's why I attend a different denomination than I did as a kid. What I heard from the pulpit didn't match the book from which it was supposedly gleaned.

Keizer_Ghidorah: The first two humans listened to a talking snake and ate from a tree which made them smart, which made God so angry he cursed his entire creation to punish the two humans and all their descendents until such time as he decides to destroy everything and live forever with the tiny percentage of humans he chose to be with while the rest suffer in indescribable torment for the rest of existence. But God is love and created everything because of that love, and we are his most precious creation.

Oversimplify much?

What's there to make it more complex? It's the same story as every creation myth that came before it, mainly because it IS the same story, slightly modified. Gods create everything, gods create man, man pisses of gods, gods make everything difficult for man, man is screwed. Change a few names and places, repeat for the next civilization.

letrole: Homosexuality is a Learned Behaviour.

0/10. You used to be so much better at this. What happened? You're falling apart.

letrole: Homosexuality is a Learned Behaviour.

Well, sure it is. No one ever gets it right the first time. That's why you sometimes hear about someone being a "practising homosexual." Let's face it, Earth-shattering sexual pleasure indulged with someone of the same gender is no easier than the opposite.

Things will go wrong. Maybe you'll need to pee right as you're getting started. Or you'll hear a strange noise from outside and get distracted. The phone might ring or a curious pet might wander into the room and completely spoil the mood.

It might just be a case of lack of focus from having too much on your mind or getting overexcited and finishing far, far too soon. It's never like in the movies.

It would probably help people a lot if there were classes in school or at least some leaflets from the government with sensible advice. I'm glad you brought up this vital issue, letrole, and I am certain that millions of LGBT people around the world welcome your kind words of support.

DingleberryMoose: Keizer_Ghidorah: The loudest Christians are the ones preaching hate and discrimination towards gays, women, minorities. Maybe if the rest of Christianity would tell those loudmouths to sit down and shut up, we wouldn't be having these problems.

Agreed.

Keizer_Ghidorah: But if you're gonna sit there and let your book of love and tolerance and brotherhood be twisted by these vermin without complaint, don't be upset when the oppressed get angry at you for not helping.

Some of us do, in our own small ways. In a generation or so, this will be a very different conversation. We've finally started to teach our children to love rather than condemn.

I hope so. The bad thing is I'm gonna have to put up with this generation's holdouts screeching like angry parrots as their hate and bigotry ostracizes them more and more.

DingleberryMoose:
Keizer_Ghidorah: The first two humans listened to a talking snake and ate from a tree which made them smart, which made God so angry he cursed his entire creation to punish the two humans and all their descendents until such time as he decides to destroy everything and live forever with the tiny percentage of humans he chose to be with while the rest suffer in indescribable torment for the rest of existence. But God is love and created everything because of that love, and we are his most precious creation.

Oversimplify much?

What's the matter, Sunshine? Don't like what your religion teaches? But it's even worse that Keizer_Ghidorah says. Not only did God curse mankind because a mere defenseless child, that He created that way, was tricked by the serpent, he cursed every living thing on earth and all of their descendants to short, brutal lives filled with fear, disease, parasites, pain, and, for the vast majority, violent death at the claws and teeth of predators. And then, when He got angry with us for being less than perfect, a condition He knew would come about before He ever made us, He killed off all but two (and maybe seven of a few select species) of every living thing on earth in a flood.

Not only is your God an asshole, he uses an atomic bomb to kill a gnat.

Keizer_Ghidorah: What's there to make it more complex?

You miss much of the fun. Two creation stories that are mutually exclusive, morality lessons, the first teachings on women's equality...

DingleberryMoose:

Keizer_Ghidorah: The first two humans listened to a talking snake and ate from a tree which made them smart, which made God so angry he cursed his entire creation to punish the two humans and all their descendents until such time as he decides to destroy everything and live forever with the tiny percentage of humans he chose to be with while the rest suffer in indescribable torment for the rest of existence. But God is love and created everything because of that love, and we are his most precious creation.

Oversimplify much?

What was wrong about it? They were told not to eat the Fruit of Knowledge, Satan tempted them, and now there's Original Sin.
Bonus points if you include Lilith who was banished when she refused to be a servant of Adam instead of an equal.

Some denominations send the unbaptized babies to hell, and others to purgatory. Either way, our natural state is on bad terms with God despite the blood sacrifice of Jesus.

DingleberryMoose: tinfoil-hat maggie: I love how so many farkers have a better understanding of the bible than a lot of so called christians. Granted most of us were raised that way, and just actually read the bible.

That's why I attend a different denomination than I did as a kid. What I heard from the pulpit didn't match the book from which it was supposedly gleaned.

Keizer_Ghidorah: The first two humans listened to a talking snake and ate from a tree which made them smart, which made God so angry he cursed his entire creation to punish the two humans and all their descendents until such time as he decides to destroy everything and live forever with the tiny percentage of humans he chose to be with while the rest suffer in indescribable torment for the rest of existence. But God is love and created everything because of that love, and we are his most precious creation.

Oversimplify much?

Yea he forgot Lilith : )
Other than that what did he miss?