There's a sucker born again every minute.

"According to the study, people who said they were a "born-again" Protestant or Catholic, or conversely, those who had no religious affiliation, had more hippocampal shrinkage (or "atrophy") compared to people who identified themselves as Protestants, but not born-again."

Hahahahahaha.....

Holding them under a little long in that baptism.

Those with no affiliation also showed the same shrinkage? It's go Protestant or go home? Seems pretty dubious.

this explains alot.

/about religious wingnuts
//about Biblethumpy older people
///about the GOP supporter base
////slashies?

Mentalpatient87: There's a sucker born again every minute.

Yeah?

FTFA:

According to the study, people who said they were a "born-again" Protestant or Catholic, or conversely, those who had no religious affiliation, had more hippocampal shrinkage (or "atrophy") compared to people who identified themselves as Protestants, but not born-again.

I wanted to have something insightful and possibly funny to say here, but i think my mind checked out for lunch

i'll might come back later, but i doubt it

I wonder if they plan a followup study to see if religious deconversions have any measurable effect.

Yes but is it use it or lose it, or never had it in the first place?

Yup, Conservatives are dumb as hell. Didn't need any research to figure that out. Just have a conversation with your local conservative...

had98c: Those with no affiliation also showed the same shrinkage? It's go Protestant or go home? Seems pretty dubious.

i think it's more of those with late in life major religious/philosophical changes may be be experiencing shrinkage

and need to stay out of the pool

had98c: Those with no affiliation also showed the same shrinkage? It's go Protestant or go home? Seems pretty dubious.

Conservative evangelical protestants ("born-agains"), Catholics and atheists all have in common that they unquestioningly believe what others have told them, and so have less cause to learn and think about what they have learned. It's natural that their hippocampi would be atrophied.

abb3w: I wonder if they plan a followup study to see if religious deconversions have any measurable effect.

No, methinks the problem is that people used to living in a fantasy world gradually lose all of the skills required to deal with a reality that differs from their own world view.

abb3w: I wonder if they plan a followup study to see if religious deconversions have any measurable effect.

deconversion? why does this make me envision pat robertson being strapped to a chair and made to watch science videos

Excuse me for getting it right the first time

/thanks, Emo

Born-again Christians are also 74.3% more likely to use IE as their browser.

imontheinternet: Born-again Christians are also 74.3% more likely to use IE as their browser.

burn the heretics

indylaw: Conservative evangelical protestants ("born-agains"), Catholics and atheists all have in common that they unquestioningly believe what others have told them, and so have less cause to learn and think about what they have learned. It's natural that their hippocampi would be atrophied.

WOT???

Regardless of the conclusions, this is junk science. Their protocol is laughable.

fickle floridian: or conversely, those who had no religious affiliation, had more hippocampal shrinkage

I love how people keep missing this part "or conversely, those who had no religious affiliation, had more hippocampal shrinkage".

LOLs

It's just like being gay

Corporate Self: Regardless of the conclusions, this is junk science. Their protocol is laughable.

Comparing the results of a brain scans on people over time from a cross section of backgrounds? I'll bite, where's the whole in that logic?

fickle floridian: "According to the study, people who said they were a "born-again" Protestant or Catholic, or conversely, those who had no religious affiliation, had more hippocampal shrinkage (or "atrophy") compared to people who identified themselves as Protestants, but not born-again."

Hahahahahaha.....

The best Trolls know how to piss off both sides of an argument.

Oh brother. I just go back to the vag and pretend to be born again, so I guess I'm safe.

Evil Twin Skippy: Corporate Self: Regardless of the conclusions, this is junk science. Their protocol is laughable.

Comparing the results of a brain scans on people over time from a cross section of backgrounds? I'll bite, where's the whole in that logic?

These people's lifestyles? Their habits? Drug use? Existing medical conditions? Ethnicity? Genetic disposition? Age? Controls?

I could go on ...

fickle floridian: "According to the study, people who said they were a "born-again" Protestant or Catholic, or conversely, those who had no religious affiliation, had more hippocampal shrinkage (or "atrophy") compared to people who identified themselves as Protestants, but not born-again."

Hahahahahaha.....

Check your hippocampus. It means people who are not affiliated with a church, but who have had a life-changing religious experience comparable to being born again. It does not refer to atheists, who clearly tend to be more skeptical and critical of superstitious dogma.

Also,

A lot of recovering alcoholics become born agains.
Ethanol shrinks your brain.

Bam, science

Phony_Soldier: fickle floridian: or conversely, those who had no religious affiliation, had more hippocampal shrinkage

I love how people keep missing this part "or conversely, those who had no religious affiliation, had more hippocampal shrinkage".

LOLs

Read the entire article. The folks who experience Hippocampal shrinkage are those that underwent a "born-again" type experience. It didn't matter if it was coming to Jesus, Bhudda, or saying "FSCK IT THERE IS NOT GOD."

Once you decide to throw out any past experience and formulate all future conclusions on a made up set of doctrines (and it doesn't matter whose they are) you cease to exercise the "learn from experience" part of the brain.

And the brain scans reflect that.

So we read this...

According to the study, people who said they were a "born-again" Protestant or Catholic, or conversely, those who had no religious affiliation, had more hippocampal shrinkage (or "atrophy") compared to people who identified themselves as Protestants, but not born-again.

Then they say this...

"One interpretation of our finding -- that members of majority religious groups seem to have less atrophy compared with minority religious groups -- is that when you feel your beliefs and values are somewhat at odds with those of society as a whole, it may contribute to long-term stress that could have implications for the brain," Amy Owen, lead author of the study and a research associate at Duke University Medical Center, said in a Duke news release.

So in terms of a religious debate, this information is meaningless. Got it.

imontheinternet: Born-again Christians are also 74.3% more likely to use IE as their browser.

and have @aol.com email addresses

Example of junk science:

Conclusion: "Poor people have a larger incidence of Sickle Cell Anemia so it is a disease of the poor!"

Hidden Facts: African Americans are more likely to carry sickle-cell and they are disproportionally represented in the poor population.

AssAsInAssassin: It does not refer to atheists, who clearly tend to be more skeptical and critical of superstitious dogma.

I'd venture to guess that most atheists don't pay much attention to religious doctrine or dogma. They decide that church is "gay" or believing in God is "stupid" and decide that they want their Sunday mornings to sleep in, guilt free. When questioned, they buy a Hitchens book that they never read and wave it around while calling religious people stupid because belief in God is delusional.

Technical article is (doi:10.1371/journal.pone.0017006), BTW.

Huh. Looks like the "Nones" dropped more than anyone but the Born-Agains. Not sure the hot link will work, but:

This does leave the question of whether that's typical of the more specific Atheist and Agnostic sub-categories. Still; not exactly happy news for the godless heathens.

indylaw: Conservative evangelical protestants ("born-agains"), Catholics and atheists all have in common that they unquestioningly believe what others have told them, and so have less cause to learn and think about what they have learned.

I don't suppose you can back that claim about atheists with sociological data?


loonatic112358: deconversion? why does this make me envision pat robertson being strapped to a chair and made to watch science videos

That's more "deprogramming".
Deconversion appears to usually be a bit less dramatic process than that.

indylaw: I'd venture to guess that most atheists don't pay much attention to religious doctrine or dogma. They decide that church is "gay" or believing in God is "stupid" and decide that they want their Sunday mornings to sleep in, guilt free. When questioned, they buy a Hitchens book that they never read and wave it around while calling religious people stupid because belief in God is delusional.

I used to have no problems sleeping in on some sunday mornings

until i volunteered to run the sound at a start up church

AssAsInAssassin: fickle floridian: "According to the study, people who said they were a "born-again" Protestant or Catholic, or conversely, those who had no religious affiliation, had more hippocampal shrinkage (or "atrophy") compared to people who identified themselves as Protestants, but not born-again."

Hahahahahaha.....

Check your hippocampus. It means people who are not affiliated with a church, but who have had a life-changing religious experience comparable to being born again. It does not refer to atheists, who clearly tend to be more skeptical and critical of superstitious dogma.

All hail atheism, far as I'm concerned. But you clearly haven't spoken with enough atheists yet. They can be just as closed-mindedly dogmatic and obsessed with common behavior as any other segment of human society.

Sadly, just as picking a stupid ideology is no sign of stupidity, picking an intelligent ideology is no sign of intelligence.

It also makes you go blind, and makes your palms hairy.

abb3w: That's more "deprogramming".Deconversion appears to usually be a bit less dramatic process than that.

it's not like i'm required to make sense now is it

most likely it sounds more like an REM song

I was working a temp job to put myself through this 6 weeks of unpaid training recently, and the last day I spent with a born again Christian. About 2 hours in to the 10 hour shift, he asked "Are you a churchgoer"? Like an idiot, I told him no. When he asked why, I told him it was because I was an atheist.

He looked downright shocked, and spent a good portion of the rest of the day asking me about it and whether I'd like to go to church with him sometime.

I think Jim Cornette said it best (referring to born again and noted complete asshole Shawn Michaels): "I've noticed that people start talking to god when nobody else wants to farking talk to them anymore"

That being said, I have a good friend who's a BA, and she's fine to me about it. And there are some people that, for whatever reason, are absolutely made better by converting (like ex-addicts). So while I don't hate most born again folks, I generally try to avoid them. Much like Jehovah's Witnesses.

Doesn't really surprise me. Maintaining that level of cognitive dissonance 24/7 must give the brain a good workout.

abb3w:
indylaw: Conservative evangelical protestants ("born-agains"), Catholics and atheists all have in common that they unquestioningly believe what others have told them, and so have less cause to learn and think about what they have learned.

I don't suppose you can back that claim about atheists with sociological data?

I should have said "often" before "unquestioningly believe." There are undoubtedly some atheists, Catholics and even evangelicals that do study and think about the arguments for and against their beliefs.

As for sociological data? No, I'm not a trained sociologist, nor am I at a school where I have access to social science journals. Admittedly I have nothing but anecdotes and experience.

This looks to me like a set of completely random data. There's no trending, no patterns, no underlying scientific basis for their hypothesis. If you stare at a random set of unrelated data long enough, you start to see things that aren't really there.

Corporate Self: Evil Twin Skippy: Corporate Self: Regardless of the conclusions, this is junk science. Their protocol is laughable.

Comparing the results of a brain scans on people over time from a cross section of backgrounds? I'll bite, where's the whole in that logic?

These people's lifestyles? Their habits? Drug use? Existing medical conditions? Ethnicity? Genetic disposition? Age? Controls?

I could go on ...

This was my first thought as well. Many, born-agains are former alcoholics or drug abusers. It might be more correct to say that many former alcoholics and addicts are born again Christians. Born again asserts that you can abandon your old self and begin anew. People who have had seriously farked up lives are going to be attracted to this idea.

Aren't brains composed mostly of fatty tissue and neurons? Like most physiological features, the more you use something, the trimmer and leaner it gets. Does it really surprise you that the "Jesus, take the wheel"-types suffer from atrophy resulting from not exercising the critical-thinking section of the brain? Don't even have to worry about working too hard on avoiding responsibility, as their "ghod" is responsible for everything, right?

abb3w: I wonder if they plan a followup study to see if religious deconversions have any measurable effect.

If you become an atheist proseltyzer, your brain becomes much too big for your skull.

It's true. I have studies.

abb3w: This does leave the question of whether that's typical of the more specific Atheist and Agnostic sub-categories. Still; not exactly happy news for the godless heathens.

I do have one quibble: religious groups (especially in the south, where this study was focused) tend to be demographically self-sorting. Non-born-again protestants tend to be your WASPy group -- wealthier/middle-class white people -- while born-agains tend to be poorer or composed of ethnic minorities (again, self-sorting generally along race lines), and southern Catholics tend to be poor Latin American immigrants.

There are a lot of factors here.

Guidette Frankentits: imontheinternet: Born-again Christians are also 74.3% more likely to use IE as their browser.

and have @aol.com email addresses

You sound like a lost sheep. Send a message off to Rev­ere­ndSnar­co­l­ep­ti­cl­oacom and you'll be added to our Flash-supported email prayer chain.

Epicedion: I do have one quibble: religious groups (especially in the south, where this study was focused) tend to be demographically self-sorting. Non-born-again protestants tend to be your WASPy group -- wealthier/middle-class white people -- while born-agains tend to be poorer or composed of ethnic minorities (again, self-sorting generally along race lines), and southern Catholics tend to be poor Latin American immigrants.There are a lot of factors here.

yea, i'm not so sure on that

indylaw: I'd venture to guess that most atheists don't pay much attention to religious doctrine or dogma.

Pew Forum data suggests you're wrong, there. While they may think the doctrine and dogma is bull, they tend to know it pretty well. Atheists/Agnostics tend to be more knowledgeable about religion in general than Christians, and about Christian beliefs more so than most sects of Christian. (White Evangelicals and Mormons tend to know more than Atheists/Agnositics about Christianity in particular, but not religion in general.)

Generic "Nothing In Particular" may be more like what you're thinking of, however.

Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: You sound like a lost sheep. Send a message off to ReverendSnarcolepticloacom and you'll be added to our Flash-supported email prayer chain.

and if you'd like to listen to one of his sermons fire off Realone

Fark that, they don't get an excuse for believing in nonsense.