Most of that vitriol will come from within the GOP base. Evangelical Christians farking hate Mormons.

Well, if they're bracing for attacks, then maybe they should stop doing some of the objectionable aspects of their religion - like trying to baptize Simon Wiesenthal.

Just how bad this election year will be will hinge on one group of people. Will the people who hate Barack Obama for being a black man who they think isn't Christian come out and vote if their only option is an annoyingly rich Mormon, whom they think is a cult? The undervote for President in Southern states this year may be historic.

kid_icarus: Most of that vitriol will come from within the GOP base. Evangelical Christians farking hate Mormons everything.

FTFY

WTF Indeed: Just how bad this election year will be will hinge on one group of people. Will the people who hate Barack Obama for being a black man who they think isn't Christian come out and vote if their only option is an annoyingly rich Mormon, whom they think is a cult? The undervote for President in Southern states this year may be historic.

I come from a southern, evangelical family. Let me tell you...when Romney won the nomination, you could hear a howl go up from one end of our southern-fried, Christian red state to the other.

WTF Indeed: Just how bad this election year will be will hinge on one group of people. Will the people who hate Barack Obama for being a black man who they think isn't Christian come out and vote if their only option is an annoyingly rich Mormon, whom they think is a cult? The undervote for President in Southern states this year may be historic.

Sadly the "evangelical" leaders are already getting their flocks in line.

In October, Texas megachurch pastor Robert Jeffress ignited a firestorm by calling Mormonism a "cult" and telling Republicans not to vote for Mitt Romney because the presidential aspirant was not a "competent Christian."

Today, Jeffress is endorsing Romney.



On no other group of people would you be able to pull off a line like "You remember how I told you that Mormonism is an evil, satanic cult, and not Christian at all? Yeah, never mind all that, Vote for Mitt Romney so we can preserve our Christian nation against Obama's attacks"

But with evangelicals? Sadly, it will probably work.

Magorn: WTF Indeed: Just how bad this election year will be will hinge on one group of people. Will the people who hate Barack Obama for being a black man who they think isn't Christian come out and vote if their only option is an annoyingly rich Mormon, whom they think is a cult? The undervote for President in Southern states this year may be historic.

Sadly the "evangelical" leaders are already getting their flocks in line.

In October, Texas megachurch pastor Robert Jeffress ignited a firestorm by calling Mormonism a "cult" and telling Republicans not to vote for Mitt Romney because the presidential aspirant was not a "competent Christian."

Today, Jeffress is endorsing Romney.



On no other group of people would you be able to pull off a line like "You remember how I told you that Mormonism is an evil, satanic cult, and not Christian at all? Yeah, never mind all that, Vote for Mitt Romney so we can preserve our Christian nation against Obama's attacks"

But with evangelicals? Sadly, it will probably work.

Oh, I agree with you. But I really don't think it's going to work quite as well as they think. There are a lot of hardcore evangelicals who will simply refuse to vote. And if a viable (Christian) 3rd candidate appeared, they would siphon off a huge number of the GOP's base.

Magorn: In October, Texas megachurch pastor Robert Jeffress ignited a firestorm by calling Mormonism a "cult" and telling Republicans not to vote for Mitt Romney because the presidential aspirant was not a "competent Christian."

Today, Jeffress is endorsing Romney.

HOW ARE THESE PASTORS ABLE TO TELL THEIR CONGREGATIONS HOW TO VOTE AND STILL KEEP THEIR TAX-FREE STATUSES

WHO HAS TO BE FIRED FOR THIS TO BE FIXED

My grandmother, who seethes with hate of our n*bong President (nice old lady does use the real word...alot), is afraid of Romney and his religion. Despite the fact she know nothing about said religion.

That's going to be common. To many older and/or low-information voters, you'll see people reject Romney out of hand because Mormonism is too foreign to them. The irony being that that's the imagery and symbolism that they tried to hang on Obama.

And they did it with his name, heritage, childhood in Muslim countries, and church he attended 20+ years ago. While Romney is as true a Mormon as I've ever known. And quite high in the Mormon hierarchy.

Ever hear of a dark horse candidate? Romney's The White Horse candidate.

The southern states will not vote for a black man. Period. They will go for the rich white guy and love it.

oldernell: The southern states will not vote for a black man. Period. They will go for the rich white guy and love it.

Southern Evangelical Christians hate Mormons, though. They really, really hate them and think they're a dangerous cult.
I'm just saying it's going to be interesting seeing what southern repubs do, and what logic backflips the GOP will have to do to try to convince them to vote for Romney. (the fact that a black guy is the other choice will go a long way, though).

kid_icarus: I come from a southern, evangelical family. Let me tell you...when Romney won the nomination, you could hear a howl go up from one end of our southern-fried, Christian red state to the other.

Now imagine their reaction if a fat fark from Jersey, or a Cuban from Florida is on the ticket as VP.

Magorn: But with evangelicals? Sadly, it will probably work.

Endorsements have almost zero meaning these days. This preachers are learning rule #1 about politics this cycle, "compromise is key". They compromised to endorse an Italian Catholic, knowing full well that their members think Catholics are a cult, and that Italians are dark skinned. Now they are compromising on a Northeast liberal Mormon, knowing full well that their members hate Mormons and liberals more than Italians and Catholics.

The reason religion and politics don't work is because one is an absolute and the other is ever changing and evolving. If I'm the leader of a church, who's wealth is predicated on people viewing me as God's voice, openly contradicting your own morals for the sake of personal political power is very dangerous.

If I were in charge of the DNC, I would forbid every single member not named Harry Reid from ever talking about Romney's religion. Nothing direct, nothing insinuated. Zero. Zip. Zilch Nada. Just shut up about it. It's a no-win situation.

I would do this on general principle regardless. It doesn't hurt that the GOP's wingnut case is going to make it an issue amongst themselves. Let them fight and sort it out on their own.

Jon Stewart did an excellent piece on Mitt Romney and attacks on his Mormonism from both the right and the left and Martin Bashir and Lawrence O'Donnell came out looking the worst. O'Donnell especially came off like a complete jerk who made me more sympathetic toward Romney.

Why do we need to attack Mormonism? Romney's given us enough ammunition as it is.

kid_icarus: Most of that vitriol will come from within the GOP base. Evangelical Christians farking hate Mormons.

So? They hate everyone.

JerseyTim: Lawrence O'Donnell

He's been huge disappointment since he got that show. "Sanctimonious" doesn't even come close. And I always used to appreciate his inside knowledge and earned wisdom.

Mentat: Why do we need to attack Mormonism? Romney's given us enough ammunition as it is.

Yeah, really. I don't care if the guy is a snake handler, that's his business. Plenty on policy to go after.

oldernell: The southern states will not vote for a black man. Period. They will go for the rich white guy and love it.

True story told me by a pro-Obama canvasser working in W. Va (which admittedly is not TECHNICALLY the south) in '08. She knocks in the door of a fairly rustic dwelling and tells the woman who answers who she is, and asks her if she's made up her mind who she's voting for . The woman yells back into the house "Honey, this lady wants to know who we're votin' fer" A voice booms back: "Well, tell her we're votin' for the Ni*bong* boy" Which she dutifully did.

WTF Indeed: kid_icarus: I come from a southern, evangelical family. Let me tell you...when Romney won the nomination, you could hear a howl go up from one end of our southern-fried, Christian red state to the other.

Now imagine their reaction if a fat fark from Jersey, or a Cuban from Florida is on the ticket as VP.

Magorn: But with evangelicals? Sadly, it will probably work.

Endorsements have almost zero meaning these days. This preachers are learning rule #1 about politics this cycle, "compromise is key". They compromised to endorse an Italian Catholic, knowing full well that their members think Catholics are a cult, and that Italians are dark skinned. Now they are compromising on a Northeast liberal Mormon, knowing full well that their members hate Mormons and liberals more than Italians and Catholics.

The reason religion and politics don't work is because one is an absolute and the other is ever changing and evolving. If I'm the leader of a church, who's wealth is predicated on people viewing me as God's voice, openly contradicting your own morals for the sake of personal political power is very dangerous.

It's almost as if that's what the founder of their religion meant when he first articulated the principle of separation of Church and State, by urging his followers to render under to Caesar what is Caesar's and render unto God what is God's". As Sheldon Nahmod, a distinguished scholar on the 1st Amendment has observed: The establishment clause is meant not just to prevent the secular state from domination by religious authorities, but equally to prevent religions from being corrupted by excessive entanglement in the messy business of governance.

Oh, subby. Well done.

/golf clap

Magorn: oldernell: The southern states will not vote for a black man. Period. They will go for the rich white guy and love it.

True story told me by a pro-Obama canvasser working in W. Va (which admittedly is not TECHNICALLY the south) in '08. She knocks in the door of a fairly rustic dwelling and tells the woman who answers who she is, and asks her if she's made up her mind who she's voting for . The woman yells back into the house "Honey, this lady wants to know who we're votin' fer" A voice booms back: "Well, tell her we're votin' for the Ni*bong* boy" Which she dutifully did.

During '08, I was doing some work that had me in a rural county courthouse every day. If I had a nickle for every time I heard the 'n' word during that time, I'd be millionaire.

He needs to fight back with a pro-Mormon ad.

"We acknowledged people like Obama as human beings as early as the late 1970's."

Romney. He acknowledges the colourdes. Now.

As a gay atheist Democrat (I know, total cliche) I see absolutely no reason to attack Mitt's Mormonism.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is odd, but they're a lot less crazy than Scientology or Prosperity gospel Baptists. Or even Santorum-like Catholics.

Also, there are some really hot Mormon Elders.

Leave it alone, it's barely worth mentioning. Liberals don't care enough, and the conservatives that hate Mormons aren't going to vote for him anyway.

Mentat: Why do we need to attack Mormonism? Romney's given us enough ammunition as it is.

Indeed. Actually, if this guy was an Episcopalian he'd have nothing interesting about him at all.

Its the Teabaggers and Republitards that care about religion.

Let them fight over it.

Sarah Palin is their only hope. lol

SphericalTime: As a gay atheist Democrat (I know, total cliche) I see absolutely no reason to attack Mitt's Mormonism.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is odd, but they're a lot less crazy than Scientology or Prosperity gospel Baptists. Or even Santorum-like Catholics.

Also, there are some really hot Mormon Elders.

Leave it alone, it's barely worth mentioning. Liberals don't care enough, and the conservatives that hate Mormons aren't going to vote for him anyway.

Even if you could get the real party voices to keep it cool, it's still going to come from the considerable noise machines we've constructed. I'll do my part as best I can to not contribute to that. That said.....

To play devil's advocate for a moment, my friend in pink highlighting, doesn't his position in the church and the church's interference with things such as Prop 8 require we look more closely at his faith and relationship with his church?

;-)

In a lengthy statement on their main website, Mormon leaders say the church does not "endorse, promote or oppose political parties, candidates or platforms."

Bullshiat!!! Ask any opponent of CA's proposition 8.

It's been done.

JerseyTim: If I were in charge of the DNC, I would forbid every single member not named Harry Reid from ever talking about Romney's religion. Nothing direct, nothing insinuated. Zero. Zip. Zilch Nada. Just shut up about it. It's a no-win situation.

I would do this on general principle regardless. It doesn't hurt that the GOP's wingnut case is going to make it an issue amongst themselves. Let them fight and sort it out on their own.

Senator Tom Udall and Representative Jim Matheson are also Mormons. I'd be fine with letting them talk about their religion.

Serious Black: JerseyTim: If I were in charge of the DNC, I would forbid every single member not named Harry Reid from ever talking about Romney's religion. Nothing direct, nothing insinuated. Zero. Zip. Zilch Nada. Just shut up about it. It's a no-win situation.

I would do this on general principle regardless. It doesn't hurt that the GOP's wingnut case is going to make it an issue amongst themselves. Let them fight and sort it out on their own.

Senator Tom Udall and Representative Jim Matheson are also Mormons. I'd be fine with letting them talk about their religion.

I didn't hold it against Huntsman either. I wanted to see him go further.

Duh, of course it's going to be party over religious belief.

1) The Democrat is a Christian who has more than once talked about his Christian faith and belief
2) The Republican doesn't believe in the Holy Trinity and believes Jesus and God are separate beings and that even God was once a man.

In Christianity, if you don't believe that Jesus died for your sins and was resurrected, you're going to Hell. Obama may be a sinner (e.g., by not being against abortion) but through his Christian faith, he is forgiven for his sins so he'll go to Heaven.

So Obama is going to Heaven and Romney is going to Hell -- but vote Republican anyway.

Considering the Republicans reflexively oppose everything Obama does, Obama should put out an ad defending Romney's faith.

Something to the effect of:
"They US constitution states, 'no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.'"
"The US Constitution also prohibits Romney from ever establishing Mormonism as the official religion of the US. His faith shouldn't be a hindrance at all, in this debate."

Mentat: Why do we need to attack Mormonism? Romney's given us enough ammunition as it is.

Obama won't go there but there is one element worth exploring in my mind. Mormon's are conscientiousness objectors to war.

Their faith (to which Romney subscribes) prevents them from going to war.

As Commander in Chief, Romney will be able to order all other religions to war but protect the safety and lives of those of his own faith. Seems like a major conflict of interest to me.

SphericalTime: The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is odd, but they're a lot less crazy than Scientology or Prosperity gospel Baptists. Or even Santorum-like Catholics.

I don't think you're going to get a gig writing campaign slogans for Romney.

I know that people like to say that Mormons and Scientologists aren't any crazier than Christians and they have a point. As an agnostic, I'm not going to leap to any religion's defense. But come on, actual Christianity, not the Christianity exposed by the fundie lunatics but the actual opinions of Christ do have merit. Be kind to others, don't be a dick and you can eat all the bacon you want. Now whether or not Christ was real doesn't matter, if people actually followed his teachings.

Mormons claim that some guy found some plates that only he could see and....you know the rest. Black people are animals until God changed his mind in the 1970s.

Scientology is a self help scheme created by a sci-fi author over a bar bet. It's a religion because they lobbied it to be a religion for tax purposes. They outright charge you for knowledge of their cult. No tithe, no offering, it's a fee.

So again, as an agnostic, I know a lot of you hate religion but you really can't see the difference?

Serious Black: Senator Tom Udall and Representative Jim Matheson are also Mormons. I'd be fine with letting them talk about their religion.

Good point. In fact, I'd rather have them talking thank Reid. He's about as compelling as a DMV worker.

Also, when I say I wouldn't allow the Democrats to say anything about Mormonism, I mean any comments at all. Negative, positive or neutral. Loose lips sink elections.

Mugato: He needs to fight back with a pro-Mormon ad.

Or,
"Romney believes in protecting America by any means necessary. He now claims he would also have gone after Osama in Pakistan. Even as a youth he was in favour of the Vietnam War draft even though he was he himself a conscientious objector. That takes the type of moral courage we need in the White House. A man willing to put your kids (not his) on the front line of freedom"

What attacks? I can't imagine the DNC is dumb enough to go after Romney on his religion. There's nothing to win there. I'd bet the only place his religion is in strategy memos is under 'things NOT to ever mention.'

I'm sure the RNC will shortly go after Obama for being a Muslim though.

Mugato: He needs to fight back with a pro-Mormon ad.

"We acknowledged people like Obama as human beings as early as the late 1970's."

Romney. He acknowledges the colourdes. Now.

So you're saying Romney flip-flopped on that too?

Mugato: I know a lot of you hate religion but you really can't see the difference?

Not really.

So what if God changed his mind about blacks in the 1970s. He changed his mind about shellfish in the 30s - 33AD to be exact.

Diogenes: Serious Black: JerseyTim: If I were in charge of the DNC, I would forbid every single member not named Harry Reid from ever talking about Romney's religion. Nothing direct, nothing insinuated. Zero. Zip. Zilch Nada. Just shut up about it. It's a no-win situation.

I would do this on general principle regardless. It doesn't hurt that the GOP's wingnut case is going to make it an issue amongst themselves. Let them fight and sort it out on their own.

Senator Tom Udall and Representative Jim Matheson are also Mormons. I'd be fine with letting them talk about their religion.

I didn't hold it against Huntsman either. I wanted to see him go further.

Me too. I'm pissed that he didn't raise his hand when asked about a 10/1 deal at that one debate, but at least he realized in hindsight that it was a colossally dumb move on his part.

JerseyTim: Serious Black: Senator Tom Udall and Representative Jim Matheson are also Mormons. I'd be fine with letting them talk about their religion.

Good point. In fact, I'd rather have them talking thank Reid. He's about as compelling as a DMV worker.

Also, when I say I wouldn't allow the Democrats to say anything about Mormonism, I mean any comments at all. Negative, positive or neutral. Loose lips sink elections.

I dunno. There are some aspects of Mormonism that I think would be okay to talk about, like their belief in universal salvation.

impaler: Mugato: I know a lot of you hate religion but you really can't see the difference?

Not really.

So what if God changed his mind about blacks in the 1970s. He changed his mind about shellfish in the 30s - 33AD to be exact.

Um, Christianity and Judaism are different religions. At least that's what my agent keeps telling me.

Mugato: So what if God changed his mind about blacks in the 1970s. He changed his mind about shellfish in the 30s - 33AD to be exact.

Um, Christianity and Judaism are different religions. At least that's what my agent keeps telling me

So? Pre 33AD - God says you can't eat shellfish. Post 33, fine and dandy.

God changes his mind a lot.

The Mormons I've known personally are pretty nice people. Quiet. Kept to themselves. Never got into trouble.

impaler: Mugato: So what if God changed his mind about blacks in the 1970s. He changed his mind about shellfish in the 30s - 33AD to be exact.

Um, Christianity and Judaism are different religions. At least that's what my agent keeps telling me

So? Pre 33AD - God says you can't eat shellfish. Post 33, fine and dandy.

God changes his mind a lot.


Hey, I'm the last person to ask to defend the Bible and its inconsistencies but you don't see a little difference between the Old and New Testament and the Mormons considering black people as cursed animals until the 1970s only when it was politically advantageous?

Mugato: But come on, actual Christianity, not the Christianity exposed by the fundie lunatics but the actual opinions of Christ do have merit

You mean the "if you use the free will and rational brain that God gave you to conclude he doesn't exist, you're going to be tortured for all eternity"

Yeah, shedloads of merit in that one, for sure.

I thought the only people bringing his religion up as a problem are other Republicans.

impaler: Considering the Republicans reflexively oppose everything Obama does, Obama should put out an ad defending Romney's faith.

Something to the effect of:
"They US constitution states, 'no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.'"
"The US Constitution also prohibits Romney from ever establishing Mormonism as the official religion of the US. His faith shouldn't be a hindrance at all, in this debate."

They'll either say nothing or THIS.

The King of Trolls is not stupid enough to get into a game of "my invisible sky wizard is better than your invisible sky wizard".

He'll let the Republitards have a private poo-flinging fight.

Quasar: I thought the only people bringing his religion up as a problem are other Republicans.

Like all of them on Fark for instance, right?

DammitIForgotMyLogin: Mugato: But come on, actual Christianity, not the Christianity exposed by the fundie lunatics but the actual opinions of Christ do have merit

You mean the "if you use the free will and rational brain that God gave you to conclude he doesn't exist, you're going to be tortured for all eternity"

Yeah, shedloads of merit in that one, for sure.

Yeah, that was Old Testament. I don't think Jesus said anything about the black being cursed animals.

Much easier to prove Mitt is an habitual liar.