As much of a tourist trap shiatehole Tombstone is, I always have to stop in and have an inedible steak served by an elderly waitress dressed up like an old-timey prostitute. There is something magical about it.

And so begins the inescapable de-population of the desert cities. As these folks head north in search of water and arable land, we northerners need to prepare for this invasion. We have the guns and the cover; what we need is more land mines and road blocks.

I've never been to Tombstone. No desire to do so. I loved the movies. But the actual history is ... meh.

They'll get the water. They will have to learn to cooperate with the Forest Service, first. And Froth Limbaugh can't imagine anyone doing that. Not unless kowtowing to him and his words is considered cooperation.

All day they'll face the barren waste without the taste...

violentsalvation: I don't think the Forest Service wants them to get the water. It is a total wasteland and if there was ever a time to allow machinery up in what's left of the forest, it would be now.

You are closer to the situation. I'm sure you can hear the shrieks from where you sit.

Didn't the mayor lobby to make the water lines bigger?

Nadie_AZ: violentsalvation: I don't think the Forest Service wants them to get the water. It is a total wasteland and if there was ever a time to allow machinery up in what's left of the forest, it would be now.

You are closer to the situation. I'm sure you can hear the shrieks from where you sit.

Didn't the mayor lobby to make the water lines bigger?

You know, I don't really know. I'm pretty sure they recalled a mayor a few months ago.

violentsalvation: Nadie_AZ: violentsalvation: I don't think the Forest Service wants them to get the water. It is a total wasteland and if there was ever a time to allow machinery up in what's left of the forest, it would be now.

You are closer to the situation. I'm sure you can hear the shrieks from where you sit.

Didn't the mayor lobby to make the water lines bigger?

You know, I don't really know. I'm pretty sure they recalled a mayor a few months ago.

I just looked. Yup. March.

Recall supporters said Henderson had failed to protect the infrastructure of Tombstone. Recall organizers said that the city's water system, fire department, and graveyard were being neglected and were in need of maintenance. Henderson was accused of spending the city's money on things that have "no immediate benefit to the residents of Tombstone."

Link - http://ballotpedia.org/wiki/index.php/ Jack_Henderson_recall,_Tombstone ,_Arizona_(2012)

Nadie_AZ: violentsalvation: Nadie_AZ: violentsalvation: I don't think the Forest Service wants them to get the water. It is a total wasteland and if there was ever a time to allow machinery up in what's left of the forest, it would be now.

You are closer to the situation. I'm sure you can hear the shrieks from where you sit.

Didn't the mayor lobby to make the water lines bigger?

You know, I don't really know. I'm pretty sure they recalled a mayor a few months ago.

I just looked. Yup. March.

Recall supporters said Henderson had failed to protect the infrastructure of Tombstone. Recall organizers said that the city's water system, fire department, and graveyard were being neglected and were in need of maintenance. Henderson was accused of spending the city's money on things that have "no immediate benefit to the residents of Tombstone."

Link - http://ballotpedia.org/wiki/index.php/ Jack_Henderson_recall,_Tombstone ,_Arizona_(2012)

This is a really good article about the whole thing, especially the audio bits on the left.

what we have here is failure to communicate.

violentsalvation: This is a really good article about the whole thing, especially the audio bits on the left.

Eventually, Tombstone did get a permit authorizing the heavy earth-moving equipment, but only for the work already under way. It was the last time Tombstone was able to bring heavy equipment into the forest.
As things now stand, the city would have to repeat the same permit process with nearly two dozen more springs
.
Tombstone says it doesn't have that kind of time, that it has to move fast -- and with bulldozers and backhoes -- before the next rainy season washes away all the repairs it already has made.

So this is the crux of the problem? I hope those in Tombstone realize that courts can take an awful long time. Especially with water rights involved. Just look at Arizona vs California. Decades.

Water laws are such a clusterf*ck here in AZ. Nobody understands them, which is excellent if you're an attorney who specializes in it.

ecmoRandomNumbers: Water laws are such a clusterf*ck here in AZ. Nobody understands them, which is excellent if you're an attorney who specializes in it.

See: Jon Kyl.

so you refuse to ask for permits because "it takes too long" so you go to the courts instead? goodluckwiththat

What the fark is going on with my photobucket?

violentsalvation: What the fark is going on with my photobucket?

Less you, more Fark, I'd imagine.

Myabe they should appeal to the governor for a new Sheriff.

CruiserTwelve: Myabe they should appeal to the governor for a new Sheriff.

Joke is in Maricopa. The Sheriff in this county is all kinds of cool.

Tombstone is way less impressive than it is made out to be. The cheese is sub-standard and the sausage tastes like dirty fingernails.

How about you just

MOVE TO WHERE THE WATER IS

OHHHH OHHHH OHHHHHHHHHHHH

Ed Finnerty: Tombstone is way less impressive than it is made out to be. The cheese is sub-standard and the sausage tastes like dirty fingernails.

Argh! I was all set to be the first pizza snark.

/"great, now the crust will be even drier"

Sybarite: All day they'll face the barren waste without the taste...

Keep a movin' Dan, don't you listen to him Dan, he's a DEVIL not a man...

frodokb: How about you just

MOVE TO WHERE THE WATER IS

OHHHH OHHHH OHHHHHHHHHHHH

[mimg.ugo.com image 640x640]

I'm gonna blow Sam's mind with this, but ... they want to move the water to where the people are.

"Mwahahahaha, die of thirst, Tombstone!"

Nadie_AZ: frodokb: How about you just

MOVE TO WHERE THE WATER IS

OHHHH OHHHH OHHHHHHHHHHHH

[mimg.ugo.com image 640x640]

I'm gonna blow Sam's mind with this, but ... they want to move the water to where the people are.

Sam should have taken his own advice.

Kazan: so you refuse to ask for permits because "it takes too long" so you go to the courts instead? goodluckwiththat

It would have been fast if they'd remembered to bribe the judge.

Corporate Self: [i265.photobucket.com image 416x199]

I'm sorry, lately I'm finding it harder and harder to give a damn about Arizona.

Let's give them back to Mexico. Or at least give them their own Fark tag.

/mom's leaving for Phoenix tomorrow

CitizenTed: And so begins the inescapable de-population of the desert cities. As these folks head north in search of water and arable land, we northerners need to prepare for this invasion. We have the guns and the cover; what we need is more land mines and road blocks.

Yeah, when the underground sprinklers in my backyard stop working, you can bet I'll be up to North Dakota to steal your precious water.
/cause that's how it works

The only problem I have with depopulating Arizona is that the right-wing loonies have to go SOMEWHERE, and they won't all fit in Florida... Montana? Idaho? Alaska, maybe?

But is there still access to the Tombstone piledriver?

Toshiro Mifune's Letter Opener: [i210.photobucket.com image 500x305]

That aint what he said, ya ignerint wretch

The worst part of this story is the Goldwater Institute is representing Tombstone. The worst scum of a law firm there ever was.

Tombstone will get whatever it wants.

What do you want on your tombstone?

So wait... Why didn't they just get the permits off the bat? Is there a reason, or is it "Federal gub'mint evil", like the rest of Arizona's reasoning for things?

What are the roots that clutch, what branches grow
Out of this stony rubbish? Son of man,
You cannot say, or guess, for you know only
A heap of broken images, where the sun beats,
And the dead tree gives no shelter, the cricket no relief,
And the dry stone no sound of water. Only
There is shadow under this red rock,
(Come in under the shadow of this red rock),
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.

Vantango84: So wait... Why didn't they just get the permits off the bat? Is there a reason, or is it "Federal gub'mint evil", like the rest of Arizona's reasoning for things?

I think this may have been a catalyst for the recall of the mayor.

I went there when I was maybe 12 or 13. In some tourist trap restaurant they had a box set up to look like it had snakes in it with a heat lamp and a chicken-wire lid, and a sign on it that said "caution, baby rattlers!" So I snuck up carefully to see them and they were a bunch of little pink rattles of the sort you would give to a human baby. I felt rather betrayed, and that may have been one of the incidents that started me thinking more critically (and suspiciously). The rest of the town was so-so, except Boot Hill. I kinda liked the cemetary.

Oops, guess I should have said "sneaked" rather than "snuck". So sue me.

The All-Powerful Atheismo: That aint what he said, ya ignerint wretch

Maybe not every single word, but it was the basic gist of it!

I'm your huckleberry.

/gratuitous Tombstone reference

Vantango84
So wait... Why didn't they just get the permits off the bat?

No idea, so I'm going with "money" or "they want to do something they shouldn't", like:
Maybe getting the permits requires something like agreeing to repair damage to the forest while they just wanted to send in Joe on his bulldozer.
Or maybe they wanted to use the opportunity to "upgrade" the pipes to extract more water and the forest service doesn't like that.

CruiserTwelve: Myabe they should appeal to the governor for a new Sheriff.

I wash born here, an I wash raished here, and dad gum it, I am gonna die here, an no sidewindin' bushwackin', hornswagglin' cracker croaker is gonna rouin me bishen cutter.

SpikeStrip: what we have here is failure to irrigate.

FTFY

You can always repair/replace existing artificial installations, even in the most protected national parks, as long as the new stuff is substantially the same as the old stuff.

Sounds like a lot of douchebags on both sides trying to be right instead of trying to get to yes.

On the fed side, I'm astonished this is still down at the local level and hasn't been elevated to a more responsible level in the agency that might be able to use their authority to work out a solution.

The Voice of Doom: Or maybe they wanted to use the opportunity to "upgrade" the pipes to extract more water and the forest service doesn't like that.

This seems to be part of it.

Corporate Self: [i265.photobucket.com image 416x199]

I'm sorry, lately I'm finding it harder and harder to give a damn about Arizona.

Same here. And I live there.

The Voice of Doom: Vantango84
So wait... Why didn't they just get the permits off the bat?

No idea, so I'm going with "money" or "they want to do something they shouldn't", like:
Maybe getting the permits requires something like agreeing to repair damage to the forest while they just wanted to send in Joe on his bulldozer.
Or maybe they wanted to use the opportunity to "upgrade" the pipes to extract more water and the forest service doesn't like that.

The forest is already destroyed because of the fire and subsequent erosion. A state emergency official said it was 500 years of erosion in one day. The Forest Service is using the Wilderness Protection Act to fark over Tombstone when they themselves failed to protect the wilderness during the fire last June. And they tried to get permits, and they waited and waited and their water storage tanks went dry and they had to start using their emergency local water that is contaminated with arsenic. So Tombstone city officals said fark it, we own the water rights, we own the springs and the land around them, we have to fix this. The forest service jumped in and said no, no, no, no, you have to use only hand tools. At one point they even said a wheelbarrow was not allowed because it is "mechanized". The Forest Service is just being a bunch of petty b*tches.

Nadie_AZ: So this is the crux of the problem? I hope those in Tombstone realize that courts can take an awful long time. Especially with water rights involved. Just look at Arizona vs California. Decades.

It's simple - close it down, eject Tombstone's gravity fed system, and tell Tombstone to pack up. It's protected land, and the fact that the townsfolk think they're entitled to do whatever the hell they want to it immediately makes me dig my heels in. You're looking at one small town versus the natural stability of an entire ecosystem - the town can friggin' move.

Tombstone is the size of a postage stamp and close to a mile high in the mountains. Why don't they just get water from the San Pedro that is 10 miles away.