they are trying to fark him out of his pension. scumbags

They are technically correct.

/the best kind of correct

Oh, for FSM.....

Was his supervisor a failed school administrator?

He is going to need that gun back for the rampage he is probably planning.

sithon: they are trying to fark him out of his pension. scumbags

I think you are right.

I'm confused ... I'm constantly told that it's impossible to fire a public employee that's a member of a union.

sithon: they are trying to fark him out of his pension. scumbags

That was my take on the situation as well.

Bathia_Mapes: sithon: they are trying to fark him out of his pension. scumbags

That was my take on the situation as well.

Yep. I've seen it happen in other agencies as well. You have to be very very careful as you approach retirement.

FTFA: So after 23 years -- just two shy of retirement -- Chevilott was fired for violation of department policies, even though he found the gun while on the job and didn't bring it to work. His foreman, who knew about the incident, was suspended for 30 days.

WJBK reports that Chevilott, who wants his job back, was also fired for insubordination and unauthorized access to the department's road yard.

The union representing Chevilott, Local 101, has filed a grievance and intends to fight all three accusations.

And this, dear friends, is why we have unions, especially government workers' unions. If this poor schlub were non-rep, he'd be out on his ass and farked six ways to Sunday. As it stands, he at least has a chance.

Benevolent Misanthrope: Bathia_Mapes: sithon: they are trying to fark him out of his pension. scumbags

That was my take on the situation as well.

Yep. I've seen it happen in other agencies as well. You have to be very very careful as you approach retirement.

FTFA: So after 23 years -- just two shy of retirement -- Chevilott was fired for violation of department policies, even though he found the gun while on the job and didn't bring it to work. His foreman, who knew about the incident, was suspended for 30 days.

WJBK reports that Chevilott, who wants his job back, was also fired for insubordination and unauthorized access to the department's road yard.

The union representing Chevilott, Local 101, has filed a grievance and intends to fight all three accusations.

And this, dear friends, is why we have unions, especially government workers' unions. If this poor schlub were non-rep, he'd be out on his ass and farked six ways to Sunday. As it stands, he at least has a chance.

I hope this guy prevails. Firing him was bullshiat.

Bathia_Mapes: I hope this guy prevails. Firing him was bullshiat.

Agreed. It's so damn blatant. Blatant enough that I was thinking Wisconsin.

Sometimes it doesn't pay to do the right thing. Just ask John Chevilott, a former public-works employee in Wayne County, Mich., who earlier this month found a loaded, snubnosed revolver while mowing grass in Detroit's Brightmoor neighborhood, turned it in and was promptly fired.

Why, that's outrageou-

WJBK reports that Chevilott, who wants his job back, was also fired for insubordination and unauthorized access to the department's road yard.

... uh...

OtherLittleGuy: Oh, for FSM.....

Was his supervisor a failed school administrator?

Actually, his foreman got suspended.Theaetetus: Sometimes it doesn't pay to do the right thing. Just ask John Chevilott, a former public-works employee in Wayne County, Mich., who earlier this month found a loaded, snubnosed revolver while mowing grass in Detroit's Brightmoor neighborhood, turned it in and was promptly fired.

Why, that's outrageou-

WJBK reports that Chevilott, who wants his job back, was also fired for insubordination and unauthorized access to the department's road yard.

... uh...

He's been with them for 23 years, You don't get that far by being insubordinate and unauthorized constantly. I can't imagine anyone not farking up on the job once or twice in twenty years. I'd imagine they've been laying the ground work to get rid of him in the last two years.

So after 23 years -- just two shy of retirement -- Chevilott was fired for violation of department policies being close to retirement.

Theaetetus: WJBK reports that Chevilott, who wants his job back, was also fired for insubordination and unauthorized access to the department's road yard being two years from drawing a pension.

Darth_Lukecash: unauthorized constantly

wat?

Anyways, he apparently was found in an area he wasn't allowed to be in. But "city employee fired for trespassing" gets a lot less page hits.

unlikely: Theaetetus: WJBK reports that Chevilott, who wants his job back, was also fired for insubordination and unauthorized access to the department's road yard being two years from drawing a pension.

Easy way to sort that one out... Has anyone else drawn a pension, or have they fired everyone at 23 years in? How many of those retiring with pensions have been caught trespassing?

sithon

they are trying to fark him out of his pension. scumbags

EXACTLY!

So close to his retirement, he'd be eligible for a nice pension. Even if he retired two years early, he'd still have gotten a good amount. By firing him, the city saved a bundle of money. Plus, on that technicality, they would not have to pay 50% of any unemployment insurance because he would not qualify for any. The firing, very technically, was justified.

I hope his union rakes them over the coals.

One of my brothers works for the local county and has for nearly 20 years. In the last several years, they've fired ¼ of the work force and expected the rest to pick up the slack, frozen salaries, increased health insurance costs, require 'furlough' days to be taken by everyone weekly (meaning, a day off without pay to save money), have started dicking around with the county's contribution percentage to the pension plans, decreased the amount of unused vacation and sick days you could accumulate and get paid for upon retirement and stopped 'sideways transfers'.

And, the work force is unionized. Teamsters yet and I've pretty well decided that the union is a bunch of wusseys instead of the strong, powerful often abusive force I heard it was.

They don't do hardly anything for the workers.

When I was a courier for Airborne Express, working through subcontractors they hired (meaning, if you got fired by Airborne, the subcontractor would have to let you go or loose his contract since Airborne owned the station and contracted for the freight -- and you could NOT collect unemployment insurance) they had similar tricks.

You'd be taught how to cheat on the hand held computer to make your route times look better, but if you pi$$ed them off, they'd throw it up in your face as an excuse to fire you. Plus, you had to speed to get the job done, but any tickets you got would raise the subcontractors insurance if he kept you on. So, you got to pay the fine PLUS pay for a drivers education class to get the ticket off your record. If you slowed down, you could be fired for not getting done on time.

If you did something, like stop to help someone badly injured in a traffic accident, you could be chastised for delaying your route on unauthorized business.

If your truck/van got a dent that you did not put there and you could not prove someone else did it, YOU had the cost of repairs deducted from your pay.

(It happened to a driver. He left his van door open as he unloaded at the station and another worker, annoyed by it, punched it closed, putting in a dent. Since no one owned up to it, the driver had to fork out $165 to have it fixed.)

Quite often you had to weigh keeping your job against doing what was right.

As one of three courier companies, we liked to keep friendly terms with the other two. Occasionally, some of their freight would be placed by the customer in the wrong drop boxes. (Ours. They were usually right next to each other.) So, when that happened, we'd drop the package in the right box or, if the driver had emptied it, find the next driver along our route and give it to him.

My last boss wanted us to keep the packages, slap our shipping labels on them and charge the customer. It made him a few extra bucks and made the rival company look bad. Since those rival drivers had helped us out from time to time, we ignored the boss and just never said anything when we found the wrong package in our boxes.

BTW. We kept often $100,000 of freight in our station between Saturday and Monday. Airborne had rented us a nearly falling down hanger on an airfield. A kid could have gotten through the lock on the freight room, which opened to the outside. There was no security anywhere. Had we been broken into and stuff stolen, the station manager would probably have been fired for insufficient security, but Airborne would not pay for security measures, the subcontractor had to if he wanted them and his profit margin was narrow.

Had we been broken into, the subcontractor would more than likely have lost his contract immediately for not providing enough security.

If he lost the contract, technically all of us drivers were fired. He even got stuck with paying off the leases on the Vans Airborne required him to get.

Sweet deal huh? Not for us, but for Airborne.

The company went belly up about 10 years ago. I was not exactly sorry to find that out.

Who needs unions anymore?

Give him a little speech coaching and he can have a lucrative career with the GOP and the NRA.

People are just dicks.

I bet he's getting too old for this shiat.

Darth_Lukecash: He's been with them for 23 years, You don't get that far by being insubordinate and unauthorized constantly. I can't imagine anyone not farking up on the job once or twice in twenty years. I'd imagine they've been laying the ground work to get rid of him in the last two years.

Um, yeah, but no. If you are part of a union, and you manage to survive your first 5 years, you are pretty much untouchable at that point. Unless you do something grossly wrong (which is what they are trying to claim he did here), you won't get fired for being insubordinate and unauthorized. While from the sounds of it the union will be doing the right thing here by fighting for him, too often they fight for people who really should be fired.

Is there any proof that the reasons for firing him are unfounded? Ive yet to find any.

Little did we know, Home Owner's Association members were secretly also employees of local government. I hate HOA Nazis.

......."snubnosed revolver"....


Whats that?

Khakimonkey: ......."snubnosed revolver"....


Whats that?

It's a Pug dog ballerina.

Darth_Lukecash: OtherLittleGuy: Oh, for FSM.....

Was his supervisor a failed school administrator?

Actually, his foreman got suspended.Theaetetus: Sometimes it doesn't pay to do the right thing. Just ask John Chevilott, a former public-works employee in Wayne County, Mich., who earlier this month found a loaded, snubnosed revolver while mowing grass in Detroit's Brightmoor neighborhood, turned it in and was promptly fired.

Why, that's outrageou-

WJBK reports that Chevilott, who wants his job back, was also fired for insubordination and unauthorized access to the department's road yard.

... uh...

He's been with them for 23 years, You don't get that far by being insubordinate and unauthorized constantly.

You do if you're union.

I can't imagine anyone not farking up on the job once or twice in twenty years. I'd imagine they've been laying the ground work to get rid of him in the last two years.

I hate to judge a book by its cover, but from the looks of the guy, he's likely a prime example of a middle-aged adolescent. I've known a dozen like him. Clearly there is much more to his story than what the article tells us. I would be willing to bet that this guy has a track record of minor infractions that, had this not been a union shop, would have gotten him fired a long time ago. Sounds like the city finally got the "nail in the coffin" that they were looking for to get rid of a sub-par employee.

Firing someone right before they are ready to be able to draw a pension is the way it has been in industry for years. It's not right, but that's the way it has been.

Darth_Lukecash: You don't get that far by being insubordinate and unauthorized constantly.

You don't get that far?

He was mowing the f*cking LAWN.

A couple points of view:

If the gun thing was a major reason for his firing, that's absurd.

If he was an employee who got by (for whatever reason) without causing problems, but has kept a "city job" for all these years, it's possible that the gun issue was the last straw in a long line of negative events; basically, there may be a reason why he's still mowing a lawn. I work a non-union job and work with people who have been there for years and are manipulating the "you've been here long enough that you basically can't be fired" system to their advantage (one of whom is possibly positioning for a lawsuit on false pretenses), and these people never move "up" but they do move "around" to wherever a hole needs to be filled (even if no hole exists).

OtherLittleGuy: Oh, for FSM.....

Was his supervisor a failed school administrator?

His supervisor got suspended for 30 days too... this idiocy is the best kind of idiocy, it comes right from the top.

puffy999: A couple points of view:

If the gun thing was a major reason for his firing, that's absurd.

If he was an employee who got by (for whatever reason) without causing problems, but has kept a "city job" for all these years, it's possible that the gun issue was the last straw in a long line of negative events; basically, there may be a reason why he's still mowing a lawn. I work a non-union job and work with people who have been there for years and are manipulating the "you've been here long enough that you basically can't be fired" system to their advantage (one of whom is possibly positioning for a lawsuit on false pretenses), and these people never move "up" but they do move "around" to wherever a hole needs to be filled (even if no hole exists).

Don't care if it's the last straw, you don't ever create a culture where workers are worried they will get in trouble for turning in a gun. Even if he was a bad apple, the next worker who sees a gun in the grass may well be tempted to just leave it there, and that's not a situation we should ever want to create.

Right now Unions have a reputation of being bloated, corrupt bureaucratic organizations that protect lazy workers. Now that may not be completely true but it's true enough. As such Union membership has been dwindling.

But with all the attacks on Unions and stories like this I will not be surprised to see a large resurgence of Unions within the next 10 years. Our country is becoming way too top heavy and the people who work for a living are growing weary of footing the bill.

Now the counter argument is they are over paid with too many benefits. Which may be true. If there is one thing Americans understand is a deal is a deal. This isn't the workers fault. It's management's fault for making a deal they couldn't honor. We need to get back to the says when being a manager meant you get higher pay and authority BUT it also meant you assume the risks inherent with making decisions.

This deserves his job back. The guy who fired him deserves to be fired.

Theaetetus: Sometimes it doesn't pay to do the right thing. Just ask John Chevilott, a former public-works employee in Wayne County, Mich., who earlier this month found a loaded, snubnosed revolver while mowing grass in Detroit's Brightmoor neighborhood, turned it in and was promptly fired.

Why, that's outrageou-

WJBK reports that Chevilott, who wants his job back, was also fired for insubordination and unauthorized access to the department's road yard.

... uh...

Eh. Sounds like the civilian version of 'resisting arrest' and 'cop battery': bogus charges made up when the bogus reason you were stopped has been dismissed, just so something can stick.

FlyingLizardOfDoom: Is there any proof that the reasons for firing him are unfounded? Ive yet to find any.

I'd hate to think that you could have offenses attributed to you on a news site and people would ask "is there any proof that these charges are false?" instead of "is there any proof that these charges true?"

Are true.

firefly212: puffy999: A couple points of view:

If the gun thing was a major reason for his firing, that's absurd.

If he was an employee who got by (for whatever reason) without causing problems, but has kept a "city job" for all these years, it's possible that the gun issue was the last straw in a long line of negative events; basically, there may be a reason why he's still mowing a lawn. I work a non-union job and work with people who have been there for years and are manipulating the "you've been here long enough that you basically can't be fired" system to their advantage (one of whom is possibly positioning for a lawsuit on false pretenses), and these people never move "up" but they do move "around" to wherever a hole needs to be filled (even if no hole exists).

Don't care if it's the last straw, you don't ever create a culture where workers are worried they will get in trouble for turning in a gun. Even if he was a bad apple, the next worker who sees a gun in the grass may well be tempted to just leave it there, and that's not a situation we should ever want to create.

adamaslowclap.gif

kactuspatch: FlyingLizardOfDoom: Is there any proof that the reasons for firing him are unfounded? Ive yet to find any.

I'd hate to think that you could have offenses attributed to you on a news site and people would ask "is there any proof that these charges are false?" instead of "is there any proof that these charges true?"

you didnt answer my question. Typical.

Theaetetus: Darth_Lukecash: unauthorized constantly

wat?

Anyways, he apparently was found in an area he wasn't allowed to be in. But "city employee fired for trespassing" gets a lot less page hits.

If he's been with them for 23 years, 'unauthorized' versus 'authorized' gets fuzzy.

FlyingLizardOfDoom: kactuspatch: FlyingLizardOfDoom: Is there any proof that the reasons for firing him are unfounded? Ive yet to find any.

I'd hate to think that you could have offenses attributed to you on a news site and people would ask "is there any proof that these charges are false?" instead of "is there any proof that these charges true?"

you didnt answer my question. Typical.

People typically don't answer your questions? Sorry to hear that.

kactuspatch: FlyingLizardOfDoom: kactuspatch: FlyingLizardOfDoom: Is there any proof that the reasons for firing him are unfounded? Ive yet to find any.

I'd hate to think that you could have offenses attributed to you on a news site and people would ask "is there any proof that these charges are false?" instead of "is there any proof that these charges true?"

you didnt answer my question. Typical.

People typically don't answer your questions? Sorry to hear that.

Ok, style points for the comeback. But my question remains: is there any proof that he was wrongfully terminated? All i see in this tread is speculation and heresay based on collective support for unions and/or distrust of management. There is nothing in the original story to suggest he was wrongfully fired except the obvious reference to a union grevience, which they file every time someone is fired.

/it may seem fishy to me, but i dont know the whole story and i stronly suspect noone else does either.

Theaetetus: Sometimes it doesn't pay to do the right thing. Just ask John Chevilott, a former public-works employee in Wayne County, Mich., who earlier this month found a loaded, snubnosed revolver while mowing grass in Detroit's Brightmoor neighborhood, turned it in and was promptly fired.

Why, that's outrageou-

WJBK reports that Chevilott, who wants his job back, was also fired for insubordination and unauthorized access to the department's road yard.

... uh...

Without further details, I'm thinking these are equally trumped up.

'You're firing me for what? No way!"

"That's insubordination"

Then he walks back to his ride parked in the county lot out side his job and goes home.

As a fired employee, drivng his car off the county lot is "unauthorized access"

Now other facts may come to light, but so far I'm on his side

I'm not sure I can buy the "screw him out of his pension" thing. I work for a state agency with a pension (a university) and they don't get to keep the money if they decide to fire me. At 23 years you'd be fully vested in our pension (happens at 10 years for ours) so you'd have a couple options:

1) Take all the money you put in, all the interest on that money, and the money they matched what you put in and transfer it to another retirement account (including a private one).

2) Leave it in the state pension system until you qualified for retirement (based on age and years worked), and then take retirement and start collecting your pension. Ya it would mean your pension was smaller, and you might have to wait to collect it, but you'd still get it.

I can't imagine other pensions work a ton different. I can't imagine they allow the state to just seize all contributions if they fire you.

So I dunno, I think something else may have been going on here.

Regardless the city is probably farked for firing him for a stupid reason. Even if it was a situation of "this guy sucks let's fire him on a technicality," that will blow up in their faces since he did the right thing and may have saved lives. They'll get crucified by the public.

You know who's barely smarter than a bunch of guys who cut grass? The guys who manage them. The only real difference is that they're meaner.

FlyingLizardOfDoom: kactuspatch: FlyingLizardOfDoom: kactuspatch: FlyingLizardOfDoom: Is there any proof that the reasons for firing him are unfounded? Ive yet to find any.

I'd hate to think that you could have offenses attributed to you on a news site and people would ask "is there any proof that these charges are false?" instead of "is there any proof that these charges true?"

you didnt answer my question. Typical.

People typically don't answer your questions? Sorry to hear that.

Ok, style points for the comeback. But my question remains: is there any proof that he was wrongfully terminated? All i see in this tread is speculation and heresay based on collective support for unions and/or distrust of management. There is nothing in the original story to suggest he was wrongfully fired except the obvious reference to a union grevience, which they file every time someone is fired.

/it may seem fishy to me, but i dont know the whole story and i stronly suspect noone else does either.

Agreed. The facts aren't readily available and until I can get FOIA requests approved using my MS Paint fark credentials, it's all just fun speculation.

EbolaNYC: You know who's barely smarter than a bunch of guys who cut grass? The guys who manage them. The only real difference is that they're meaner.

I have always intensely disliked the guys who have cut my grass, though I never stopped to consider there may be some other guy looking over their shoulder... directing them.

Man, the world has whole layers of suck I am not even aware of.

Alternatively, he could have stopped what he was doing and called the police to come and recover the gun without touching it.

Then he could have been fired for using cell phone while operating a government vehicle.

Ha!

Bathia_Mapes: Benevolent Misanthrope: Bathia_Mapes: sithon: they are trying to fark him out of his pension. scumbags

That was my take on the situation as well.

Yep. I've seen it happen in other agencies as well. You have to be very very careful as you approach retirement.

FTFA: So after 23 years -- just two shy of retirement -- Chevilott was fired for violation of department policies, even though he found the gun while on the job and didn't bring it to work. His foreman, who knew about the incident, was suspended for 30 days.

WJBK reports that Chevilott, who wants his job back, was also fired for insubordination and unauthorized access to the department's road yard.

The union representing Chevilott, Local 101, has filed a grievance and intends to fight all three accusations.

And this, dear friends, is why we have unions, especially government workers' unions. If this poor schlub were non-rep, he'd be out on his ass and farked six ways to Sunday. As it stands, he at least has a chance.

I hope this guy prevails. Firing him was bullshiat.

B-b-b-but! Unions are BAD! Rush told me so!!!