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Nah, thanks.

The lone comment is a real gem.

The Indians fought, we won. All of their bones are belong to us.

Seriously though, I can understand the sanctity of the grave maybe for a few generations or so, but worrying about prehistoric bones because of religion? The American Indian is no more native to this continent than the "white man", they just migrated here before us. farking Asians always causing trouble.

Prescott Bush knows all about this..

GERONIMO!!!!

There is no way that anybody, so far, knows the true history of these bones.

What a boneheaded thing to do.

"They didn't volunteer to leave the U.S.," said John Burch, a spiritual leader of the tiny Salinan tribe. "They were kidnapped, and now they're home."

John Burch is an odd name choice for a Native American but his hyperbole is in keeping with his namesake.

Terrydatroll: The Indians fought, we won. All of their bones are belong to us.

Seriously though, I can understand the sanctity of the grave maybe for a few generations or so, but worrying about prehistoric bones because of religion? The American Indian is no more native to this continent than the "white man", they just migrated here before us. farking Asians always causing trouble.

So the thought of your remains being dug up and stuck on some researchers shelf in a couple hundred years, simply because they were curious, wouldn't bother you?

earthworm2.0: The lone comment is a real gem.

Wow, you weren't kidding.

Bonus marks to the guy for actually having the gall to call them "injuns".

You son of a biatch!

Looks like someone across the pond just watched Poltergeist

ReapTheChaos: Terrydatroll: The Indians fought, we won. All of their bones are belong to us.

Seriously though, I can understand the sanctity of the grave maybe for a few generations or so, but worrying about prehistoric bones because of religion? The American Indian is no more native to this continent than the "white man", they just migrated here before us. farking Asians always causing trouble.

So the thought of your remains being dug up and stuck on some researchers shelf in a couple hundred years, simply because they were curious, wouldn't bother you?

Um, nope? I am pretty sure all thought processes would be gone by then and in whatever form my energy takes after death will not give a shiat what is done with my bones which, BTW, will be scattered as ash into the Gulf of Mexico. Trust me, none of my ancestors will give a shiat about me in a few hundred years either. "Look Paw, there be a bone right thar!. We cud carve you a new toof outta that there bone".

Just for the record, can I point out that Birmingham in the UK is pronounced "BURmingum" and not "Burming-HAM".

Just so that you can read it correctly when you look at the article.

/that is all

Yea, that english chick, June Jones, was probably looking for a way to get a free California vacation, and she found one.

She read about how good vacation sex.

add "is" to my last sentence.

Is there a way to edit posts here? And if not, why not?

Skullduggery, I say.

Native American?

I'm Native American . . .no Indian blood though. Just born here. They're Indians or if you must, American Indians. There are those that would argue, what about Indians from India. I refer to them as "Red Dot Indians."

This PC crap has go to stop! I've got two Indian friends. Call them Native Americans and you're in for an ass whippin'.

ga362~

Lately I've been playing around with the concept of me being an "undocumented Native America".

ps

tp or hovel?

Basily Gourt: add "is" to my last sentence.

Is there a way to edit posts here? And if not, why not?

youmustbenewhere.jpg

No edits, but there is this fancy thing called "preview" that is helpful.

Point02GPA: ga362~

Lately I've been playing around with the concept of me being an "undocumented Native America".

My father and I are currently in the process of getting our CIB's and ID cards from the Navajo nation. Wound up having to go to ancestry.com to find my grandfather's tribal ID and such to solidify the connection. Still haven't found the grandfather yet, though.

1/4 quantum of blood myself, maximum dilution allowed by the tribe. Not doing it for the money (there isn't any, really), just trying to connect with my (disappearing) culture.

"They didn't volunteer to leave the U.S.," said John Burch, a spiritual leader of the tiny Salinan tribe. "They were kidnapped, and now they're home."

No one "kidnapped" them - They farking died long, long ago, and some random British guy collected them like a kid gathering so many shiny rocks on the beach! Seriously guys, stop getting all butthurt over inanimate objects - It hurts your cause more than it helps.


ReapTheChaos : So the thought of your remains being dug up and stuck on some researchers shelf in a couple hundred years, simply because they were curious, wouldn't bother you?

What part of "dead" don't you get? Dead. Deceased. No longer capable of expressing agency in this universe. No longer care if Fred Phelps' great great grandkids want to turn my skull into a bong.


akzeac : Nah, thanks.

Just clear your cookies. Problem solved.

Lets talk frankly about internal cleanliness: Basily Gourt: add "is" to my last sentence.

Is there a way to edit posts here? And if not, why not?

youmustbenewhere.jpg

No edits, but there is this fancy thing called "preview" that is helpful.

Preview? Really?

I ain't writin' the state of the union address here.

Type it up, out it goes!

/most forums have edit for those of us who are half asleep on sunday morning

Nobody thought much about the locked metal cabinet in the medical school at the University of Birmingham in the United Kingdom. It was another forgotten fixture in the anatomy department - until a researcher last year found seven skulls with yellowing labels indicating the remains were those of Native Americans from California's Central Coast.

Earlier this month, the skulls and several bone fragments were boxed and gingerly placed aboard a jet to LAX at London's Heathrow Airport. In a quiet ceremony, they were reburied in San Luis Obispo County, more than a century after their odyssey began.

"They didn't volunteer to leave the U.S.," said John Burch, a spiritual leader of the tiny Salinan tribe. "They were kidnapped, and now they're home."

Repatriation, the return to tribes of indigenous bones and artifacts, is not always a smooth road. A 1990 federal law, the Native American Graves Protection and Repatriation Act, calls for museums and other institutions to give remains and relics back to federally recognized tribes that request them. The process, however, is cumbersome for tribes and frustrating for scientists who believe certain items should remain accessible for study.

The act and similar state laws do not apply to foreign institutions. Still, the University of Birmingham, among others, sees repatriation as "a moral choice," said June Jones, a bioethicist in the university's School of Medical and Dental Sciences. The school also is returning aboriginal bones to Australia and Maori bones to groups in New Zealand.

"This is an honor," Jones said. "It's all about respect for cultures and beliefs, even if they don't happen to be ours."

How and when the Salinan bones got to Birmingham is unknown. The only clues came from the handwritten labels: "Dug from a grave near Avila, San Luis Obispo County, California by R.W. Summers."

Summers was an Episcopal minister in San Luis Obispo from 1881 until his death in 1898. He was also an avid amateur archaeologist who assembled an extensive collection of Native American relics.

In his journals, he wrote of finding skeletons and "ornaments of stone, bone and shell ... placed in the grave by loving hands, that the departed warrior might appear well in the happy spirit-land." Some believe he also may have acquired bones from workers who were excavating for railroad tracks.

Summers' collection wound up with his friend, a British clergyman and fellow archaeology buff named Selwyn Freer. Much of it was later acquired and is still held by London's venerable British Museum. But the skulls somehow came to rest at the university in Birmingham, where Freer's family had been prominent for centuries. There is no indication they were ever studied, Jones said.

Searching for their home, Jones emailed the Santa Ynez band of Chumash Indians and the Salinans, groups whose ancestors are known to have lived in the area. Burch, the Salinan elder, responded. With the help of Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.),the U.S. Embassy in London and the state's Native American Heritage Commission, Burch navigated a thicket of bureaucracy.

"Getting remains into the U.S. has been very problematic," said Dave Singleton, a program analyst with the heritage commission. "As far as we know, this is the first of its kind in California."

Singleton said the Chumash have expressed interest in asking the British Museum to repatriate the more than 200 items still there.

On May 9, Jones and her carefully packed cargo touched down at LAX. She and Chris Molina, another official of the 700-member Salinan tribe, piled into the front of a pickup truck, while Burch climbed into the crew cab with a heavily taped cardboard box the size of a small trunk. It bore a wine-glass sticker that read "Fragile."

"I was sitting in the back, with the ancestors," Burch said.

Up the coast in San Luis Obispo, anthropologist Robert Hoover was waiting at the coroner's office. A professor emeritus at Cal Poly, Hoover identified the skulls as "pretty clearly Native American." One sign was the shovel-shaped incisor teeth typical of Native Americans; another was a pattern of wear consistent with grit in the early Native American diet.

The remains were "prehistoric," Hoover said. To avoid damaging the bones, no DNA or other testing has been performed.

At a ceremony in a serene, secret spot where other Native Americans are buried, Burch said a few words. There was subdued drumming. He faced a crowd of about 25 tribal members, and a few local officials looked on. The skulls were laid in the ground facing west.

"They're home," Burch said.

Point02GPA

ga362~

Lately I've been playing around with the concept of me being an "undocumented Native America".

Go for it!

A few weeks ago I had a guy rototill my garden. Weird accent. When I asked him about it he said he was "Africian American. White as I am. He was from Johannasburg, South Africa. African American. Another bit of PC crap. I don't know of any black person who has even been near Africa. What's a matter with "black"? Or even Negro. Neither is offensive and very descriptive.

I had a girlfriend that was "vertically challenged." Less than 5 foot tall. I know a guy that is mentally challenged. He calls himself "a retard."

Nuff ranting about PC.

ReapTheChaos: Terrydatroll: The Indians fought, we won. All of their bones are belong to us.

Seriously though, I can understand the sanctity of the grave maybe for a few generations or so, but worrying about prehistoric bones because of religion? The American Indian is no more native to this continent than the "white man", they just migrated here before us. farking Asians always causing trouble.

So the thought of your remains being dug up and stuck on some researchers shelf in a couple hundred years, simply because they were curious, wouldn't bother you?

I'd be dead...how could it?

Watch out! You are going to get Warren angry!!

tenpoundsofcheese: Watch out! You are going to get Warren angry!!

What's that? I can't make out what you're trying to say? Could you remove that elephants cock from your mouth just for a moment?

So when do we white folk become "Native Americans". I mean seriously, the Indians are no more native than us. They migrated here too, so at some point we should become Native Americans as well. Just saying. You don't get to keep something forever, only until someone takes it from you then it is theirs.

break out the 3' tall skulls! we know you have them

/need one more to complete the set

Terrydatroll: So when do we white folk become "Native Americans". I mean seriously, the Indians are no more native than us. They migrated here too, so at some point we should become Native Americans as well. Just saying. You don't get to keep something forever, only until someone takes it from you then it is theirs.
I don't recall the US being so in favour of "might is right" when it came to the Soviet Union taking over the whole of the Eastern Block. Though in fairness they have been pretty firm in supporting Israel's continual land theft.

greyw1980: John Burch is an odd name choice for a Native American

Know how I know yadda yadda yadda

Basily Gourt: Lets talk frankly about internal cleanliness: Basily Gourt: add "is" to my last sentence.

Is there a way to edit posts here? And if not, why not?

youmustbenewhere.jpg

No edits, but there is this fancy thing called "preview" that is helpful.

Preview? Really?

I ain't writin' the state of the union address here.

Type it up, out it goes!

/most forums have edit for those of us who are half asleep on sunday morning

Yeah, but lack of edits is what makes Fark great. Otherwise, we'd never know the wonders of vodak, among other things. If you don't preview, you might accidentally the whole thing.

If my bones ended up at a museum or university I would be ok with that.

Heb: Terrydatroll: So when do we white folk become "Native Americans". I mean seriously, the Indians are no more native than us. They migrated here too, so at some point we should become Native Americans as well. Just saying. You don't get to keep something forever, only until someone takes it from you then it is theirs.
I don't recall the US being so in favour of "might is right" when it came to the Soviet Union taking over the whole of the Eastern Block. Though in fairness they have been pretty firm in supporting Israel's continual land theft.

Perhaps you have never heard of Texas, California, New Mexico, Arizona etc. I guess we should give those back to Mexico huh? Are you also naive enough to think that our government isn't hypocritical just like every other government? Sure we only support might makes right when it benefits us. Our concern for the Eastern Block is strategic, not because we give a shiat. Besides, the majority of the land Israel resides on was given to them by NATO block countries, including us. Regardless, my point is that the indians migrated here too, so why do they have a bigger right than everyone else?

Terrydatroll: Heb: Terrydatroll: So when do we white folk become "Native Americans". I mean seriously, the Indians are no more native than us. They migrated here too, so at some point we should become Native Americans as well. Just saying. You don't get to keep something forever, only until someone takes it from you then it is theirs.
I don't recall the US being so in favour of "might is right" when it came to the Soviet Union taking over the whole of the Eastern Block. Though in fairness they have been pretty firm in supporting Israel's continual land theft.

Perhaps you have never heard of Texas, California, New Mexico, Arizona etc. I guess we should give those back to Mexico huh? Are you also naive enough to think that our government isn't hypocritical just like every other government? Sure we only support might makes right when it benefits us. Our concern for the Eastern Block is strategic, not because we give a shiat. Besides, the majority of the land Israel resides on was given to them by NATO block countries, including us. Regardless, my point is that the indians migrated here too, so why do they have a bigger right than everyone else?

I don't much care what you give back or not. I was just mocking you getting pissy about calling native americans, native americans while pretending that you are a native american when you aren't.

You stole that land through a murderous genocide. The least you can do is be honest about it.

Terrydatroll: Heb: Terrydatroll: So when do we white folk become "Native Americans". I mean seriously, the Indians are no more native than us. They migrated here too, so at some point we should become Native Americans as well. Just saying. You don't get to keep something forever, only until someone takes it from you then it is theirs.
I don't recall the US being so in favour of "might is right" when it came to the Soviet Union taking over the whole of the Eastern Block. Though in fairness they have been pretty firm in supporting Israel's continual land theft.

Perhaps you have never heard of Texas, California, New Mexico, Arizona etc. I guess we should give those back to Mexico huh? Are you also naive enough to think that our government isn't hypocritical just like every other government? Sure we only support might makes right when it benefits us. Our concern for the Eastern Block is strategic, not because we give a shiat. Besides, the majority of the land Israel resides on was given to them by NATO block countries, including us. Regardless, my point is that the indians migrated here too, so why do they have a bigger right than everyone else?

Still waiting to give back Manhattan or pay a fair price for it.

Do we have to kiss Indian butt forever?????

Time Traveler: Do we have to kiss Indian butt forever?????

What's with the "for"?

British Government and Native American relations were actually extremely good throughout their colonization period. When the colonies were first established, King George treated the native tribes with a great deal of respect as equals and didn't impose or order them about, making treasured allies of them (at least the ones not allied with the French). When relations started to sour (mostly due to dishonest traders who would get them drunk and steal the indians blind) the British government went to lengths to rectify the situation, imprisoning traders, making restitution, forcing settlers to respect the borders of land as set.

It wasn't until after the Civil war the government of the land began to treat their "allies" as people to be lied to, murdered, disrespected, and bullied as policy.

pla:
You stole that land through a murderous genocide. The least you can do is be honest about it.

I love whenever the government or white folk get all preachy about moral high-ground about genocide, land-matters, etc. It's even more amusing when the UN or other nations point out" "Yeah, you should really shut the hell up since your indiginous folk are still living in imposed squalor and poverty due to your actions."

Terrible Old Man: British Government and Native American relations were actually extremely good throughout their colonization period. When the colonies were first established, King George treated the native tribes with a great deal of respect as equals and didn't impose or order them about, making treasured allies of them (at least the ones not allied with the French). When relations started to sour (mostly due to dishonest traders who would get them drunk and steal the indians blind) the British government went to lengths to rectify the situation, imprisoning traders, making restitution, forcing settlers to respect the borders of land as set.

It wasn't until after the Civil war the government of the land began to treat their "allies" as people to be lied to, murdered, disrespected, and bullied as policy.

I thought that was a large reason for the revolution. The British had declared the lands to the west as native american, and forbade expansion of the colonies.

Terrible Old Man: British Government and Native American relations were actually extremely good throughout their colonization period. When the colonies were first established, King George treated the native tribes with a great deal of respect as equals and didn't impose or order them about, making treasured allies of them (at least the ones not allied with the French). When relations started to sour (mostly due to dishonest traders who would get them drunk and steal the indians blind) the British government went to lengths to rectify the situation, imprisoning traders, making restitution, forcing settlers to respect the borders of land as set.

It wasn't until after the CivilRevolutionary war the government of the land began to treat their "allies" as people to be lied to, murdered, disrespected, and bullied as policy.

FTFY. 1831 was just a bit before the Civil War... (new window)

ga362


This PC crap has go to stop! I've got two Indian friends. Call them Native Americans and you're in for an ass whippin'.

Um, why exactly? Strange thing to get pissed about...