Dammit ESPN, but him and his brother in a booth. Just one game, pre-season maybe. Who cares if neither of them can do play-by-play, it would be worth it for sheer entertainment value. Stick them in front of mics and let them go; it'd be like MST3k for basketball.

At this point the only thing they can do is trade him for Bynum. Bynum is increasingly wearing out his welcome in LA and Howard has already worn out his in Orlando. Make the trade, see if it makes any difference, go from there.

jayhawk88: Dammit ESPN, but him and his brother in a booth. Just one game, pre-season maybe. Who cares if neither of them can do play-by-play, it would be worth it for sheer entertainment value. Stick them in front of mics and let them go; it'd be like MST3k for basketball.

I'd nominate any Charlotte game as being 'Mitchell' level hilarity for them.

Looks like all 3 have something else in common. Injury shortened careers.

Orlando traded Bass for Big Baby at the start of the season. Maybe getting rid f the GM was the most important thig they have done this week.

The Muthaship: Looks like all 3 have something else in common. Injury shortened careers.

You have to admit, Howard is an ACL tear away from essentially being Marcus Camby.

jayhawk88: The Muthaship: Looks like all 3 have something else in common. Injury shortened careers.

You have to admit, Howard is an ACL tear away from essentially being Marcus Camby.

An ACL tear away from being defensive player of the year in his early to mid 30s? That's pretty good, I'd say

bhcompy: An ACL tear away from being defensive player of the year in his early to mid 30s?

90% of the time, "defensive player of the year" is basically a "blocked shots leader" award.

IAmRight: bhcompy: An ACL tear away from being defensive player of the year in his early to mid 30s?

90% of the time, "defensive player of the year" is basically a "blocked shots leader" award.

Camby was great for the Nuggets, and pretty good for the Clippers as well. Camby was just expendable with the Nuggets because of Nene.

bhcompy: Camby was great for the Nuggets, and pretty good for the Clippers as well. Camby was just expendable with the Nuggets because of Nene.

I like Camby, but he's a role player, not a franchise guy like Howard is considered now. So if he did have an ACL tear, then yeah, Howard could still be productive, but whichever team has him is going to have overpaid and basically screwed themselves out of a lot of cap room.

IAmRight: bhcompy: An ACL tear away from being defensive player of the year in his early to mid 30s?

90% of the time, "defensive player of the year" is basically a "blocked shots leader" award.

No it doesn't. Although it helps to be a shot blocker, the leader in block shots only won the award 12 times. Of those twelve times Dikembe Mutombo, Alonzo Mourning, Dwight Howard account for 7 of them.
There were 18 winners who did not lead the league in block shots the same year they won the award. Sidney Moncrief, Dennis Rodman, Ben Wallace account for 7 of those 18. Of the 18 DPOY who won with out leading the league in block shots; 7 times it was an elite shot blocker. Ben Wallace three times, Dikembe Mutombo once, Hakeem Olajuwon once, Mark Eaton once, Dwight Howard once. 19 out of 30 times The award went to an elite shot blocker.

IAmRight: bhcompy: Camby was great for the Nuggets, and pretty good for the Clippers as well. Camby was just expendable with the Nuggets because of Nene.

I like Camby, but he's a role player, not a franchise guy like Howard is considered now. So if he did have an ACL tear, then yeah, Howard could still be productive, but whichever team has him is going to have overpaid and basically screwed themselves out of a lot of cap room.

Howard is considered as such, but I don't believe that makes him as such. He's Amar'e 2.0.

Rozotorical: No it doesn't. Although it helps to be a shot blocker, the leader in block shots only won the award 12 times. Of those twelve times Dikembe Mutombo, Alonzo Mourning, Dwight Howard account for 7 of them.

Rozotorical: 19 out of 30 times The award went to an elite shot blocker.

5 of the first 6 years of the DPoY, the award went to a guard (not an elite shot blocker). Currently, even though they gave it to Chandler this year, it's basically a blocked-shot award. In 2011, Howard didn't lead, but he was 4th. The people ahead of him were within .2 blocks/game, and they were Bogut (didn't play as many games), McGee (is an idiot that the NBA doesn't want to award), and Ibaka (who had pretty much the same number of blocks). So Howard got it on rep.

2010, Howard leads in blocks, Howard is DPoY.
2009, Howard leads in blocks, Howard is DPoY.
2008, Garnett nowhere near the top, but he went to the Celtics and "reinvented" them as a defensive team so the media blew him and gave him the award.
2007, Camby leads in blocks, Camby is DPoY.
2006, Wallace gets his 4th award in 5 years - clearly a legacy pick, and while Camby was leading in blocks, he was injured and missed too many games.
2005, Wallace is in the top 10, and the top guy who played more than 70 games.
2004, Artest gets it. Holy sh*t, they let a swingman get the DPoY award. Probably because they were tired of giving it to Wallace, who finished No. 2 in blocks again.
2003, Wallace is No.2 in blocks, wins DPoY (why not Ratliff? I dunno - had way higher numbers)
2002, Wallace leads league in blocks, wins DPoY.
2001, Mutombo is No. 5 in blocks, wins DPoY (have to assume because Ratliff only played 50 games)
2000, Mourning leads league in blocks, wins DPoY.

The only time they give it to a non-elite shot blocker is when they're sick of picking the same guy every year. Or when they want to blow KG.

bhcompy: Howard is considered as such

But a GM is going to get nailed like he was one. I think he's a cheapshotting, hypocritical, two-faced piece of sh*t that should be way more hated than he is. Oh, and he's useless down the stretch of games because he can't hit FTs, he's got a killer instinct so weak it makes LeBron's look like Jordan's, and he's clearly a whiner.

Somehow he doesn't get killed nearly as much on the internet.

IAmRight: Rozotorical: No it doesn't. Although it helps to be a shot blocker, the leader in block shots only won the award 12 times. Of those twelve times Dikembe Mutombo, Alonzo Mourning, Dwight Howard account for 7 of them.

Rozotorical: 19 out of 30 times The award went to an elite shot blocker.

5 of the first 6 years of the DPoY, the award went to a guard (not an elite shot blocker). Currently, even though they gave it to Chandler this year, it's basically a blocked-shot award. In 2011, Howard didn't lead, but he was 4th. The people ahead of him were within .2 blocks/game, and they were Bogut (didn't play as many games), McGee (is an idiot that the NBA doesn't want to award), and Ibaka (who had pretty much the same number of blocks). So Howard got it on rep.

2010, Howard leads in blocks, Howard is DPoY.
2009, Howard leads in blocks, Howard is DPoY.
2008, Garnett nowhere near the top, but he went to the Celtics and "reinvented" them as a defensive team so the media blew him and gave him the award.
2007, Camby leads in blocks, Camby is DPoY.
2006, Wallace gets his 4th award in 5 years - clearly a legacy pick, and while Camby was leading in blocks, he was injured and missed too many games.
2005, Wallace is in the top 10, and the top guy who played more than 70 games.
2004, Artest gets it. Holy sh*t, they let a swingman get the DPoY award. Probably because they were tired of giving it to Wallace, who finished No. 2 in blocks again.
2003, Wallace is No.2 in blocks, wins DPoY (why not Ratliff? I dunno - had way higher numbers)
2002, Wallace leads league in blocks, wins DPoY.
2001, Mutombo is No. 5 in blocks, wins DPoY (have to assume because Ratliff only played 50 games)
2000, Mourning leads league in blocks, wins DPoY.

The only time they give it to a non-elite shot blocker is when they're sick of picking the same guy every year. Or when they want to blow KG.

Nah Rebounding is more important to the voters, You have to rebound and block shots if you want to be a shoo in. I have no idea why rebounding counts as much as it does but the only people who were not elite rebounders were Cooper, Robertson, Jordan, Moncrief, Payton, Artest for a total of 7 out of 30. Although the years that Moncrief and Jordan won they had awesome rebounding stats for their positions.

IAmRight: bhcompy: Howard is considered as such

But a GM is going to get nailed like he was one. I think he's a cheapshotting, hypocritical, two-faced piece of sh*t that should be way more hated than he is. Oh, and he's useless down the stretch of games because he can't hit FTs, he's got a killer instinct so weak it makes LeBron's look like Jordan's, and he's clearly a whiner.

Somehow he doesn't get killed nearly as much on the internet.

Because he didn't crown himself King Dwight, he didn't have Dwight's Decision(yet), he's never had the endorsement deals that LeBron's had, etc. Dwight has been far better at image management than LeBron, enough so that Dwight's gaffes don't really affect his image that much.

bhcompy: Because he didn't crown himself King Dwight,

Nah, he just stole the "Superman" thing from the previous Magic center who was good.

bhcompy: he didn't have Dwight's Decision(yet)

That's because he's shown he's incapable of making a decision.

bhcompy: he's never had the endorsement deals that LeBron's had

Because he's not nearly as good a player. Also, he has plenty of endorsements.

bhcompy: Dwight has been far better at image management than LeBron

Nah, he just has a big smile and no visible tattoos. That's all it takes.

/well, and maybe the dunk contest. LeBron really screwed himself by never participating in those.

IAmRight: bhcompy: Because he didn't crown himself King Dwight,

Nah, he just stole the "Superman" thing from the previous Magic center who was good.

bhcompy: he didn't have Dwight's Decision(yet)

That's because he's shown he's incapable of making a decision.

bhcompy: he's never had the endorsement deals that LeBron's had

Because he's not nearly as good a player. Also, he has plenty of endorsements.

bhcompy: Dwight has been far better at image management than LeBron

Nah, he just has a big smile and no visible tattoos. That's all it takes.

/well, and maybe the dunk contest. LeBron really screwed himself by never participating in those.

Dwight also sold himself as a virgin until he was married and a devout uber christian. People like those things. Not in themselves but others. I don't know why he didn't ever have a serious falling out over the porn star indecent and kids out of wedlock, but people don't really want to look further then the surface I suppose.

IAmRight: Nah, he just has a big smile and no visible tattoos. That's all it takes.

/well, and maybe the dunk contest. LeBron really screwed himself by never participating in those.

Tons of basketball players have visible tattoos and some don't even smile, yet they're still liked. Shaq had visible tattoos. Birdman has a sketchy history, tattoos up his ass(literally, I imagine), but he's white. Rasheed Wallace has visible tattoos AND never smiles, and people don't hate him(everyone I know seems to respect him for being a physical if occasionally dirty player).

Basically, I disagree with that simplistic premise.

Rozotorical: Dwight also sold himself as a virgin until he was married and a devout uber christian. People like those things. Not in themselves but others. I don't know why he didn't ever have a serious falling out over the porn star indecent and kids out of wedlock, but people don't really want to look further then the surface I suppose.

That was the other thing - no one bothers mentioning this! Not that I think we should be discussing athletes' sex lives in the media, but c'mon, we bring that sh*t into threads all the time.

bhcompy: Shaq had visible tattoos. Birdman has a sketchy history, tattoos up his ass(literally, I imagine), but he's white. Rasheed Wallace has visible tattoos AND never smiles, and people don't hate him(everyone I know seems to respect him for being a physical if occasionally dirty player).

Shaq won titles. Rasheed Wallace spent the entire 2000s being considered one of the primary examples of how the NBA was full of thugs. Birdman...99 percent of people don't know who the f*ck he is. You can't say that guys that are completely ignored aren't hated as evidence.

Well... bye.

IAmRight: Rozotorical: No it doesn't. Although it helps to be a shot blocker, the leader in block shots only won the award 12 times. Of those twelve times Dikembe Mutombo, Alonzo Mourning, Dwight Howard account for 7 of them.

Rozotorical: 19 out of 30 times The award went to an elite shot blocker.

5 of the first 6 years of the DPoY, the award went to a guard (not an elite shot blocker). Currently, even though they gave it to Chandler this year, it's basically a blocked-shot award. In 2011, Howard didn't lead, but he was 4th. The people ahead of him were within .2 blocks/game, and they were Bogut (didn't play as many games), McGee (is an idiot that the NBA doesn't want to award), and Ibaka (who had pretty much the same number of blocks). So Howard got it on rep.

2010, Howard leads in blocks, Howard is DPoY.
2009, Howard leads in blocks, Howard is DPoY.
2008, Garnett nowhere near the top, but he went to the Celtics and "reinvented" them as a defensive team so the media blew him and gave him the award.
2007, Camby leads in blocks, Camby is DPoY.
2006, Wallace gets his 4th award in 5 years - clearly a legacy pick, and while Camby was leading in blocks, he was injured and missed too many games.
2005, Wallace is in the top 10, and the top guy who played more than 70 games.
2004, Artest gets it. Holy sh*t, they let a swingman get the DPoY award. Probably because they were tired of giving it to Wallace, who finished No. 2 in blocks again.
2003, Wallace is No.2 in blocks, wins DPoY (why not Ratliff? I dunno - had way higher numbers)
2002, Wallace leads league in blocks, wins DPoY.
2001, Mutombo is No. 5 in blocks, wins DPoY (have to assume because Ratliff only played 50 games)
2000, Mourning leads league in blocks, wins DPoY.

The only time they give it to a non-elite shot blocker is when they're sick of picking the same guy every year. Or when they want to blow KG.

It's almost as though something happened in the '80s and '90s to cripple defending to the point that the "best" defenders are the ones who put up numbers instead of defending.

I wonder...

Lifeless: IAmRight: Rozotorical: No it doesn't. Although it helps to be a shot blocker, the leader in block shots only won the award 12 times. Of those twelve times Dikembe Mutombo, Alonzo Mourning, Dwight Howard account for 7 of them.

Rozotorical: 19 out of 30 times The award went to an elite shot blocker.

5 of the first 6 years of the DPoY, the award went to a guard (not an elite shot blocker). Currently, even though they gave it to Chandler this year, it's basically a blocked-shot award. In 2011, Howard didn't lead, but he was 4th. The people ahead of him were within .2 blocks/game, and they were Bogut (didn't play as many games), McGee (is an idiot that the NBA doesn't want to award), and Ibaka (who had pretty much the same number of blocks). So Howard got it on rep.

2010, Howard leads in blocks, Howard is DPoY.
2009, Howard leads in blocks, Howard is DPoY.
2008, Garnett nowhere near the top, but he went to the Celtics and "reinvented" them as a defensive team so the media blew him and gave him the award.
2007, Camby leads in blocks, Camby is DPoY.
2006, Wallace gets his 4th award in 5 years - clearly a legacy pick, and while Camby was leading in blocks, he was injured and missed too many games.
2005, Wallace is in the top 10, and the top guy who played more than 70 games.
2004, Artest gets it. Holy sh*t, they let a swingman get the DPoY award. Probably because they were tired of giving it to Wallace, who finished No. 2 in blocks again.
2003, Wallace is No.2 in blocks, wins DPoY (why not Ratliff? I dunno - had way higher numbers)
2002, Wallace leads league in blocks, wins DPoY.
2001, Mutombo is No. 5 in blocks, wins DPoY (have to assume because Ratliff only played 50 games)
2000, Mourning leads league in blocks, wins DPoY.

The only time they give it to a non-elite shot blocker is when they're sick of picking the same guy every year. Or when they want to blow KG.

It's almost as though something happened in the '80s and '90s to cripple defending to the point that the " ...

Could you be talking about Michael Jordan.

damn yanks: Lifeless: IAmRight: Rozotorical: No it doesn't. Although it helps to be a shot blocker, the leader in block shots only won the award 12 times. Of those twelve times Dikembe Mutombo, Alonzo Mourning, Dwight Howard account for 7 of them.

Rozotorical: 19 out of 30 times The award went to an elite shot blocker.

5 of the first 6 years of the DPoY, the award went to a guard (not an elite shot blocker). Currently, even though they gave it to Chandler this year, it's basically a blocked-shot award. In 2011, Howard didn't lead, but he was 4th. The people ahead of him were within .2 blocks/game, and they were Bogut (didn't play as many games), McGee (is an idiot that the NBA doesn't want to award), and Ibaka (who had pretty much the same number of blocks). So Howard got it on rep.

2010, Howard leads in blocks, Howard is DPoY.
2009, Howard leads in blocks, Howard is DPoY.
2008, Garnett nowhere near the top, but he went to the Celtics and "reinvented" them as a defensive team so the media blew him and gave him the award.
2007, Camby leads in blocks, Camby is DPoY.
2006, Wallace gets his 4th award in 5 years - clearly a legacy pick, and while Camby was leading in blocks, he was injured and missed too many games.
2005, Wallace is in the top 10, and the top guy who played more than 70 games.
2004, Artest gets it. Holy sh*t, they let a swingman get the DPoY award. Probably because they were tired of giving it to Wallace, who finished No. 2 in blocks again.
2003, Wallace is No.2 in blocks, wins DPoY (why not Ratliff? I dunno - had way higher numbers)
2002, Wallace leads league in blocks, wins DPoY.
2001, Mutombo is No. 5 in blocks, wins DPoY (have to assume because Ratliff only played 50 games)
2000, Mourning leads league in blocks, wins DPoY.

The only time they give it to a non-elite shot blocker is when they're sick of picking the same guy every year. Or when they want to blow KG.

It's almost as though something happened in the '80s and '90s to cripple defending to the point ...

He means Espn I think.

IAmRight: bhcompy: Because he didn't crown himself King Dwight,

Nah, he just stole the "Superman" thing from the previous Magic center who was good.

bhcompy: he didn't have Dwight's Decision(yet)

That's because he's shown he's incapable of making a decision.

bhcompy: he's never had the endorsement deals that LeBron's had

Because he's not nearly as good a player. Also, he has plenty of endorsements.

bhcompy: Dwight has been far better at image management than LeBron

Nah, he just has a big smile and no visible tattoos. That's all it takes.

/well, and maybe the dunk contest. LeBron really screwed himself by never participating in those.

Seriously, what the hell is wrong with you? He's not gonna sleep with you.

IAmRight: bhcompy: Camby was great for the Nuggets, and pretty good for the Clippers as well. Camby was just expendable with the Nuggets because of Nene.

I like Camby, but he's a role player, not a franchise guy like Howard is considered now. So if he did have an ACL tear, then yeah, Howard could still be productive, but whichever team has him is going to have overpaid and basically screwed themselves out of a lot of cap room.

Any top C is going to get overpaid, the games got plenty of great forwards and guards but finding a franchise center is pretty difficult.

Side note, this doesn't seem to be discussed much but I feel that SG is another weak position in today's NBA. After Kobe and Wade you have a bunch of mostly unproven guys and role playing vets.

TheJoe03: Side note, this doesn't seem to be discussed much but I feel that SG is another weak position in today's NBA. After Kobe and Wade you have a bunch of mostly unproven guys and role playing vets.

Because the forwards learned to shoot as well as the guards. SG is being pushed out by guys that are hybrid SFs because of their size.

bhcompy: Because the forwards learned to shoot as well as the guards. SG is being pushed out by guys that are hybrid SFs because of their size.

I don't see that changing the guard positions though. The C is almost irrelevant, teams just put in their tallest F there now. There is no way the NBA can have everyone under 6'4 only at the 1. In a way that has happened because too many PG's try to act like SG's. Anyway, the 3 has always been a versatile position but if anything that position will move occupy the 3 and 4, while PF becomes the 5.

TheJoe03: bhcompy: Because the forwards learned to shoot as well as the guards. SG is being pushed out by guys that are hybrid SFs because of their size.

I don't see that changing the guard positions though. The C is almost irrelevant, teams just put in their tallest F there now. There is no way the NBA can have everyone under 6'4 only at the 1. In a way that has happened because too many PG's try to act like SG's. Anyway, the 3 has always been a versatile position but if anything that position will move occupy the 3 and 4, while PF becomes the 5.

Well, the SG role is your perimeter shooter in today's game. PG are the cutters, the super athletic. Teams run guys like Billups, Foye, Allen, etc at SG, and they're called undersized(those are all 6'4 or smaller), because they are in today's game. Kobe and Jordan are(were) 6'6, and dominated at the position because of the mismatch they presented playing 4 guys at 6'6 or taller on the floor. You say there is no way the NBA can have everyone under 6'4 be a 1, but today's NBA demands it, unless you're plan is to just run small all the time and hope for the best.

The fact of the matter is that size wins in the NBA. The Lakers were very successful because they had a 6'6 SG/PG, a 6'10 SF/PG, a 7' PF, and a 7' C. Derek Fisher was a 6'2 afterthought whose only job was to sit in the corner and hit 3s every once in a while.

bhcompy: TheJoe03: bhcompy: Because the forwards learned to shoot as well as the guards. SG is being pushed out by guys that are hybrid SFs because of their size.

I don't see that changing the guard positions though. The C is almost irrelevant, teams just put in their tallest F there now. There is no way the NBA can have everyone under 6'4 only at the 1. In a way that has happened because too many PG's try to act like SG's. Anyway, the 3 has always been a versatile position but if anything that position will move occupy the 3 and 4, while PF becomes the 5.

Well, the SG role is your perimeter shooter in today's game. PG are the cutters, the super athletic. Teams run guys like Billups, Foye, Allen, etc at SG, and they're called undersized(those are all 6'4 or smaller), because they are in today's game. Kobe and Jordan are(were) 6'6, and dominated at the position because of the mismatch they presented playing 4 guys at 6'6 or taller on the floor. You say there is no way the NBA can have everyone under 6'4 be a 1, but today's NBA demands it, unless you're plan is to just run small all the time and hope for the best.

The fact of the matter is that size wins in the NBA. The Lakers were very successful because they had a 6'6 SG/PG, a 6'10 SF/PG, a 7' PF, and a 7' C. Derek Fisher was a 6'2 afterthought whose only job was to sit in the corner and hit 3s every once in a while.

You have a point Utah made it to the playoffs playing 8 forwards, three point guards and what is left of Raja Bell.

Okay, but the SF and SG are similar but way different. The SF is also a cutter and a perimeter player and they are also tasked to be good defenders and rebounders. I still think SG's are necessary, you need a quick guy that is all about scoring. I guess what we will see is some teams will have "pure" shooting guards and the rest will be swingmen. In the end, coaches have a lot of flexibility with their lineups in the modern NBA.

TheJoe03: In the end, coaches have a lot of flexibility with their lineups in the modern NBA.

Only to the degree that matchups allow, though. If the Lakers ran their big set, you'd have to go big, or they'd just play keepaway. If the Clippers run 3 guards and 2 forwards(or even 4/1, they have the players to do so), you can't have an unathletic big team on the court or they'll run right by you.

The flexibility is there, but only if you're truly skilled enough at the positions to overcome whatever disadvantage that flexibility brings

bhcompy: The flexibility is there, but only if you're truly skilled enough at the positions to overcome whatever disadvantage that flexibility brings

Of course, that's why depth has always been so important. You need to be able to make adjustments and switch up the flow of the game, it's why you always see big time coaching chess matches in the postseason.

Ken VeryBigLiar: jayhawk88: Dammit ESPN, but him and his brother in a booth. Just one game, pre-season maybe. Who cares if neither of them can do play-by-play, it would be worth it for sheer entertainment value. Stick them in front of mics and let them go; it'd be like MST3k for basketball.

I'd nominate any Charlotte game as being 'Mitchell' level hilarity for them.

That is a brilliant idea.