i live in china, and i am more free here than in the US. farking police state.

Weaver95: we can't even make that claim anymore. if some cop somewhere wants you in chains then well...you're ass is ending up in chains and that's all there is to say about that.

I just don't buy that we somehow have less rights than we did in the past. Our nation began with slavery and things such as the alien and sedition act. While we were fighting the Nazi's, we built internment camps for American citizens. A decade later we conducted a witch hunt against alleged communists. Then in the 70s we started our war on drugs. I'm not seeing which time period had more rights than the current era.

ordinarysteve: Ricardo Klement: Mr. Carpenter: BronyMedic: Weaver95: even CHINA is saying we treat protesters too harshly...yeesh.

Remember SOPA? PIPA? Doesn't ring any bells? Link click on that link and see the nice little message from the US Government.

Please, that's rubbish. Child Porn and thievery is not some kind of right that you have nor one society should tolerate.

Is it such a huge of problem that people need to be censored and spied upon? It's not like child porn is an internet-free-for-all or something. It's just a morally reprehensible scape-goat. It's also a dick move to assume that people against internet surveillance are in support of child pornographers and thieves or something.

That has nothing to do with Megaupload. If a whorehouse is being used for illegal gambling operations, child prostitution, and has a vending machine, you don't have a legitimate complaint when they shut it down by claiming, "but the vending machine is legal! Why do you hate the free market!"

Its really irrelevant that its hypocritical because other than the blocking the internet thing they are spot on. We are being treated like crap and whoever said our govt wont execute you for protesting the govt have been living under a rock? Seriously did u read the farking NDAA? Forget executing protestors its n

some_beer_drinker: i live in china, and i am more free here than in the US. farking police state.

I'd like to see you insult the Chinese govt the same way. Do it in public, see what happens. Moron.

cmb53208: Weaver95:

I think some voters are still in denial about the sort of country we've become.

Sadder still, I think a lot of voters actually like the country we've become: just look at the chorus of people willing to cheer on the likes of Sheriff Joe, Mike Bloomberg, Ray Kelly, the Texas court system, and the Oakland PD. There's a lot of ugly people in this country, and no shortage of politicians waiting to do their bidding

yeah, but I think some of that is being driving by the collapsing economy. people are losing money and social position and are desperately searching for someone to blame. along comes an opportunistic twit with an axe to grind and tells the desperate people something they want to hear and BAM! tea party wins the local/state primary races.

i'm not saying that this country doesn't have a problem with bitter, hateful authoritarians...because we do. I guess i'm saying that bitter, hateful authoritarians do well during periods of economic hardship.

ROBOTwHUM4NHAIR: Its really irrelevant that its hypocritical because other than the blocking the internet thing they are spot on. We are being treated like crap and whoever said our govt wont execute you for protesting the govt have been living under a rock? Seriously did u read the farking NDAA? Forget executing protestors its n

Farking ipod. Was gonna say its wrong to even arrest someone protesting peacefully in a public place. Not to mention cops throwing flashbangs at ppls heads when they are not allowed to throw them within like 300yds of a citizen.
Our govt is so freaking power hungry its not even funny

Ah, China. A place where one used to be able to purchase human flesh for consumption out in its streets.

Ricardo Klement: ordinarysteve: Ricardo Klement: Mr. Carpenter: BronyMedic: Weaver95: even CHINA is saying we treat protesters too harshly...yeesh.

That has nothing to do with Megaupload. If a whorehouse is being used for illegal gambling operations, child prostitution, and has a vending machine, you don't have a legitimate complaint when they shut it down by claiming, "but the vending machine is legal! Why do you hate the free market!"

Shutting down Megaupload isn't what I have a problem with. They shut that down without heavy-handed legislation, now didn't they? So why start spying on your own citizens if you already have the ability to shut down illegal sites.

Nabb1: Oh, who is dumb enough to buy China's BS propaganda on human rights? Seriously.

The same people who thought it was a good idea to put Gadhafi on the International Security Council

The U.S. is with out doubt a complete hypocrisy, with GOPers being the dominate cause.

TheJoe03: I'd like to see you insult the Chinese govt the same way. Do it in public, see what happens. Moron.

If he does it in New York he could be arrested. In Oakland could get a concussion grenade to the head. You were saying?

TheJoe03: Weaver95: we can't even make that claim anymore. if some cop somewhere wants you in chains then well...you're ass is ending up in chains and that's all there is to say about that.

I just don't buy that we somehow have less rights than we did in the past. Our nation began with slavery and things such as the alien and sedition act. While we were fighting the Nazi's, we built internment camps for American citizens. A decade later we conducted a witch hunt against alleged communists. Then in the 70s we started our war on drugs. I'm not seeing which time period had more rights than the current era.

there's a couple of things that have made this country worse off than ever before:

1. state/loca/federal cops are more militarized than ever before. Federal cops even cross train with military troops. as they all become better with military tactics, they focus less on solid police work...the attitude has shifted away from community relations and more towards '[giggle] I have a tank! lets hit something with it!'

2. corporations are working closer with law enforcement than ever before. companies are (ab)using their political influence to change laws to suit a corporate agenda rather than considering the impact on communities. individual rights are becoming secondary to protecting corporate goals.

3. communications technology is letting even local cops monitor and track the most trivial of details about anyone in their local communities. local politicans with ties to authoritarian and militarized cop shops can (and do) create 'enemies lists' of people and groups to watch for various reasons (political, corporate, or just because they can). and once you end up on ONE cop shop watch list, it's easy enough to end up on the national lists.

BronyMedic: Weaver95: even CHINA is saying we treat protesters too harshly...yeesh.

Well, Weaver95, when I want to prove my point, I know the first thing I fall back on is Chinese Propaganda.

/derp.dg41: Can they prove any content is being blocked in the US? Because we sure as hell can prove that China does.

Must be the US going after child pornography. Too restrictive!

What kind of idiocy is this? You're going to wave that farking red herring to excuse selling regulation of the internet to corporations? "Think of the children"? Really? Keep voting republican farktard and telling yourself that you're safer because BMG can sue granny for eleventy billion dollars for downloading a lawrence welk episode..

ROBOTwHUM4NHAIR: Its really irrelevant that its hypocritical because other than the blocking the internet thing they are spot on. We are being treated like crap and whoever said our govt wont execute you for protesting the govt have been living under a rock? Seriously did u read the farking NDAA? Forget executing protestors its n

+++++++++CARRIER LOST++++++++++++

It's easier to point out the flaws of others than it is to assess your own failings.

/Every country is hoity toity about themselves

also - another thing that's f*cking up this country is corporate prisons. giving a corporation a fiscal interest in passing strict authoritarian laws and zero tolerance policies is an EXREMELY bad idea.

styckx: Aww, poor U.S. Government.. They pointed fingers and someone told them to look in the mirror.

I think it's more complicated than that. The accusations of the Chinese government are more for its own citizenry, to amplify their natural fatalism into a sneering condescension for the other side.

At least they did not mention the death penalty.

DrunkenBob: It's easier to point out the flaws of others than it is to assess your own failings.

/Every country is hoity toity about themselves

But when we do it, we say it's in the name of National Security

Weaver95: there's a couple of things that have made this country worse off than ever before:

I don't disagree but fact is that overall our country has always been going against civil rights, this era not being any worse than the past. I'd take our rights in 2012 over our rights in 1962 or 1942 or 1892, but I say that as a brown person.

What about women's rights? Nah, the U.S. is just as bad as china right? Their terrible record in regards to women alone is reason for them to STFU.

Violations Resulting from Family Planning Policy: The Chinese Constitution mandates the duty of couples to practice family planning. Since 1979, the central government has attempted to implement a family planning policy in China and Tibet that the government states is "intended to control population quantity and improve its quality." Central to this initiative is the "one child per couple" policy. Central authorities have verbally condemned the use of physical force in implementing the one-child policy; however, its implementation is left to local laws and regulations.

To enforce compliance, local authorities employ incentives such as medical, educational and housing benefits, and punishments including fines, confiscation of property, salary cuts or even dismissal. Officials also may refuse to issue residence cards to "out of plan" children, thereby denying them education and other state benefits.

Methods employed to ensure compliance have also included the forced use of contraceptives, primarily the I.U.D., and forced abortion for pregnant women who already have one child. In Zheijang Province, for example, the family planning ordinance states that "fertile couples must use reliable birth control according to the provisions. In case of pregnancies in default of the plan, measures must be taken to terminate them." As an official "minority", Tibetans are legally allowed to have more than one child. However, there have been reports of forced abortions and sterilizations of Tibetan women who have had only one child. There are also reports of widespread sterilization of certain categories of women, including those suffering from mental illness, retardation and communicable or hereditary diseases. Under previous local regulations superseded by the 1994 Maternal and Infant Health Care Law, such sterilization was mandatory in certain provinces. Under the new law, certain categories of people still may be prevented from bearing children.

Violations Against Female Children: The one-child policy, in conjunction with the traditional preference for male children, has led to a resurgence of practices like female infanticide, concealment of female births and abandonment of female infants. Female children whose births are not registered do not have any legal existence and therefore may have difficulty going to school or receiving medical care or other state services. The overwhelming majority of children in orphanages are female and/or mentally or physically handicapped.

The one-child policy has also contributed to the practice of prenatal sex identification resulting in the abortion of female fetuses. Although the government has outlawed the use of ultrasound machines for this purpose, physicians continue the practice, especially in rural areas. Thus, while the average worldwide ratio of male to female newborns is 105/100, Chinese government statistics show that the ratio in the PRC is 114/100 and may be higher in some areas.

WhyteRaven74: If he does it in New York he could be arrested. In Oakland could get a concussion grenade to the head. You were saying?

Say that anywhere (in person or on the internet) in China and you go to jail, with little due process or legal freedoms. You were saying?

Mr. Carpenter: Remember SOPA? PIPA? Doesn't ring any bells? Link click on that link and see the nice little message from the US Government.

Remember how none of those passed?

Guess that must have been the fantasy. We have to go deeper!

DERPCEPTION!

BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

ROBOTwHUM4NHAIR: Forget executing protestors its n




ohhh

I'm almost disgusted someone would say the US is equal to or worse than China on human rights. I'm not even much of a patriot but get some perspective. America has a lot of problems, Weaver spelled em out, but we sure as hell ain't as bad as the freedom hating Chinese.

and they are right.

haha China is actually able to make valid points on how bad the US is on human rights, but ignore them and chant USA instead because they're the enemy

Bender The Offender: What kind of idiocy is this? You're going to wave that farking red herring to excuse selling regulation of the internet to corporations? "Think of the children"? Really? Keep voting republican farktard and telling yourself that you're safer because BMG can sue granny for eleventy billion dollars for downloading a lawrence welk episode..

Oh, you're serious.

Let me laugh harder. Harder than reading Chinese Propaganda.

I see you have a problem detecting sarcasm. And you magically know my political beliefs. You might want to see someone about that learning disorder that makes you read things that aren't there.

TheJoe03: Weaver95: there's a couple of things that have made this country worse off than ever before:

I don't disagree but fact is that overall our country has always been going against civil rights, this era not being any worse than the past. I'd take our rights in 2012 over our rights in 1962 or 1942 or 1892, but I say that as a brown person.

there has been a constant push/pull between government, corporations and the bill of rights...that's been there since year one in this country. That said, several factors have fallen into place that give a decided advantage to the authoritarians - the Citizens United decision, the passing of the patriot act, the crumbling economy...each event builds on the preceeding one, narrowing the range of freedom for everyone just a little bit more than the previous year. we lose our right to protest, we get tracked by government and corporate databases, we lose our jobs, we run out of money. social services are cut, education funding non-existant. talking heads on the news tell us not to worry, that everything is going to be just fine Any Day Now Real Soon, then flood us with images of wealth, prosperity and sex. it's almost possible to ignore the black clad cops in mirror mask helmets and heavy truncheons...almost.

TheJoe03: with little due process or legal freedoms.

What due process was afforded the guy who got a flash bang grenade to the head in Oakland? Or to the rest of the protesters in Oakland or the ones in NYC? And the people in Gitmo would like a word with you about due process.

falcon176: haha China is actually able to make valid points on how bad the US is on human rights, but ignore them and chant USA instead because they're the enemy

You mean, for example, a country that has a habit of selling the murdered corpses of political opponents to a guy who plasticises them, and selling their organs to the highest bidder shouldn't be called on their rampant hypocrisy and FUD?

China calling out the United States on human rights is like Pakistan calling out Iran on violating the non-proliferation treaty for nuclear weapons.

But of course, that's Jingoism. Clearly we think the United States is the land of milk, honey, and the Garden of Eden because of it. There's no middle ground. AT ALL.

WhyteRaven74: What due process was afforded the guy who got a flash bang grenade to the head in Oakland? Or to the rest of the protesters in Oakland or the ones in NYC? And the people in Gitmo would like a word with you about due process.

None to the guys in Gitmo, but are you saying the other guys can't take those issues to our civil courts?

Nabb1: Oh, who is dumb enough to buy China's BS propaganda on human rights? Seriously.

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You must be new here, welcome to Fark.

WhyteRaven74: What due process was afforded the guy who got a flash bang grenade to the head in Oakland? Or to the rest of the protesters in Oakland or the ones in NYC? And the people in Gitmo would like a word with you about due process.

Furthermore, just because we have fewer human rights violations then china doesn't mean we shouldn't strive to do better then we're doing.

david_gaithersburg: Nabb1: Oh, who is dumb enough to buy China's BS propaganda on human rights? Seriously.

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You must be new here, welcome to Fark.

you DO understand that waterboarding people until they love Big Brother is an act of considerable evil, right?

TheJoe03: None to the guys in Gitmo, but are you saying the other guys can't take those issues to our civil courts?

Since the courts will throw out those cases without looking at them, yes. they can't take it to court. They cannot afford the lawyers necessary to get buy a fair judgement.

Nabb1: Weaver95: Nabb1: Oh, who is dumb enough to buy China's BS propaganda on human rights? Seriously.

my take on this? China is mocking the US. we've made a lot noise about being THE number one country on human rights...but now we can't make that claim anymore. And you know what? the Chinese are right: we're no longer interested in human rights or protecting the weak.

dance around that all you want...but its true.

Oh, please, the way the US handles protestors is a far cry from being jailed indefinitely or possibly executed as a dissident. You can drink their Kool-Aid if you want. I'll pass. They're just trying to slap back at the US for its criticism.

that's only because protests about anything that would effect the owners are laughably ineffective. they don't need to do anything severe, they just sit there and 'la-la-la i do what i want' instead.

TheJoe03: but are you saying the other guys can't take those issues to our civil courts?

They could, if they can find a lawyer to take the case and all that goes with that. But it shouldn't be up to them to go after a city for what happened. A city screws up like that, someone should be putting their foot down in a hurry to fix things.

fluffy2097: Furthermore, just because we have fewer human rights violations then china doesn't mean we shouldn't strive to do better then we're doing.

Exactly. "We're not as bad as the other guys!" is no defense.

BronyMedic: falcon176: haha China is actually able to make valid points on how bad the US is on human rights, but ignore them and chant USA instead because they're the enemy

You mean, for example, a country that has a habit of selling the murdered corpses of political opponents to a guy who plasticises them, and selling their organs to the highest bidder shouldn't be called on their rampant hypocrisy and FUD?

China calling out the United States on human rights is like Pakistan calling out Iran on violating the non-proliferation treaty for nuclear weapons.

But of course, that's Jingoism. Clearly we think the United States is the land of milk, honey, and the Garden of Eden because of it. There's no middle ground. AT ALL.

I really wish everyone in this thread who thinks we are just as bad will gtfo and go live there for a while. It's a horrible farking place. My friend stayed there for 3 months for business and told me that although there is a democratic tinge to it, you still better watch wtf you say, lest you be snatched off the street as a spy..or if you are Chinese, for being a traitor to your govt. His guide was very worried about doing the wrong thing because he knew they were being watched.

How about tougher prisons with fewer inmates? Get rid of the jokes (news of the past: women slaps boyfriend in argument, up to six years for assault) and downgrade prisons. Also, why the fark do prisoners have rights anyways? I hear animal enclosures are state of the art nowadays... :)

publikenemy: I really wish everyone in this thread who thinks we are just as bad will gtfo and go live there for a while.

It's not that we're as bad, but we're a far way from good enough.

Weaver95: david_gaithersburg: Nabb1: Oh, who is dumb enough to buy China's BS propaganda on human rights? Seriously.

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You must be new here, welcome to Fark.

you DO understand that waterboarding people until they love Big Brother is an act of considerable evil, right?

Not when it can possibly save the lives of citizens. Carry on water boarding..it's just water. They'll live..with dirty underwear maybe, but they'll live.

A Non Amos: How about tougher prisons with fewer inmates? Get rid of the jokes (news of the past: women slaps boyfriend in argument, up to six years for assault) and downgrade prisons. Also, why the fark do prisoners have rights anyways? I hear animal enclosures are state of the art nowadays... :)

I'm sure they would be upstanding citizens when they get out and never re-offend again as well. If history has taught us anything, its that when someone is treated like an animal they always end up well-adjusted.

Weaver95: david_gaithersburg: Nabb1: Oh, who is dumb enough to buy China's BS propaganda on human rights? Seriously.

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You must be new here, welcome to Fark.

you DO understand that waterboarding people until they love Big Brother is an act of considerable evil, right?

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This is called sarcasm! I recognize it.

publikenemy: Not when it can possibly save the lives of citizens

There's no evidence it can do that. Also it's explicitly banned by some treaties the US has signed on to. Also if it's not a big deal, would you mind being waterboarded? I mean, hey, it's just water.

So it would be ok to start running over Occupy protesters with tanks?

Nabb1: Oh, please, the way the US handles protestors is a far cry from being jailed indefinitely or possibly executed as a dissident.

Tell that to Andrew Breitbart.

We should be criticized; just not by China.