The article doesn't even mention the substandard steel from China. Caltrans fired the first inspection company for failing too many pieces.

I used to commute on it every day, from the city to Antioch. Anything is an improvement from the Oakland side of the bridge. Apparently that thing won't survive any significant seismic event, so I took a deep breath every time I crossed it.

red5ish: When I need hard hitting journalism I turn to The Sacramento Bee.

When I started in the newspaper business, the McClatchy name was respected for its hard news. They've cut their international and local news staffs to the bare bones, shrunk the newshole, put advertising people in charge of everything, and wonder why no one reads a newspaper anymore. After the dirty tricks I saw from the Minneapolis Star-Tribune, (a McClatchy paper) directed toward the Saint Paul Pioneer Press, (who I worked for) I couldn't ethically work for or with them, nor recommend them to anyone with integrity.

FriarReb98: And it's farking California, where costs are retarded due to more regulations than brains.

Regulations that are simply ignored.... go figure. Profits before people.

Having worked for both Kiewit (Cypress Structure, Bay Bridge, Ralston Ave Overcrossing, Benicia Bridge) and Myers (SFO, Bay Bridge, 580/680 interchange) they should have gone with CC Myers. Mr. Myers is too cheap to kick back, though.

spentmiles

I'm visiting my parents and using their computer, so the regular ad-blocking stuff isn't in effect. What the fark? I'm two paragraphs into the article and the screen goes black. Then a window opens up, using some crapping venetian rendering that the designer probably thought looked awesome. Then with no warning a video starts to play which shows two full grown men having sex with each other. I tried to close it, but the ad said, "You may close this video in 5 seconds." I may? May I? Really? During the five second wait (more like ten seconds), my grandson comes into the room and sits on my lap. And there's these two guys having intercourse, advertising some sort of sex lotion. And there's nothing I can do about it! Can you believe that? This Facebook culture just makes me sick.

My browser has a little 'X' icon in the upper right corner. Clicking this magic icon will blow away any web page, no matter how maliciously written.

I use it quite often.

I'm visiting my parents and using their computer, so the regular ad-blocking stuff isn't in effect. What the fark? I'm two paragraphs into the article and the screen goes black. Then a window opens up, using some crapping venetian rendering that the designer probably thought looked awesome. Then with no warning a video starts to play which shows two full grown bees having sex with each other. I tried to close it, but the ad said, "You may close this video in 5 seconds." I may? May I? Really? During the five second wait (more like ten seconds), my grandson comes into the room and sits on my lap. And there's these two bees having intercourse, advertising some sort of sex honey. And there's nothing I can do about it! Can you believe that? This Facebook culture just makes me buzz.

bob_ross: 6.5 billion for a farking BRIDGE?

It was considerably cheaper before the Browns, Willie and Jerry, started intruding politics into the design. As for the work itself, hey, it was Kiewit. I'd expect nothing less. Does the Big Dig ring a bell for anyone?

ThighsofGlory: Having worked for both Kiewit (Cypress Structure, Bay Bridge, Ralston Ave Overcrossing, Benicia Bridge) and Myers (SFO, Bay Bridge, 580/680 interchange) they should have gone with CC Myers. Mr. Myers is too cheap to kick back, though.

I've only worked for a division of Kiewit. It was all I needed to see.

SomeCallMeTim: I wouldn't worry too much about the bridge. I'd be more concerned about going to Oakland.

As long as you're there, (there is no there, there) take in a baseball game!

/go A's!

The article reads like a complete clusterfark, with everyone from the Governor's office to CalTrans to the contractor saying "no-comment" and pointing fingers at each other. I think there are some big problems with that bridge. I'd like to know where most of that 6.5 billion went. It didn't go into the materials or record-keeping, that's for sure.

On the bright side, they did give that 6.5 billion to China.

Offshoring all that work saved Californians money in hard times.

Perducci:

The bridge goes to Oakland. The people using it are assuming a certain level of risk to begin with.

And now that this article is out the California Department of Transportation can claim people are now using it with informed consent thereby waiving the right to damages. Like some websites do with their Terms of Use, which of course everybody prints out and takes to their lawyer before they click "I Agree" -- right?

IANAL, I just don't trust the government.

bullwinkl: I'm visiting my parents and using their computer, so the regular ad-blocking stuff isn't in effect. What the fark? I'm two paragraphs into the article and the screen goes black. Then a window opens up, using some crapping venetian rendering that the designer probably thought looked awesome. Then with no warning a video starts to play which shows two full grown bees having sex with each other. I tried to close it, but the ad said, "You may close this video in 5 seconds." I may? May I? Really? During the five second wait (more like ten seconds), my grandson comes into the room and sits on my lap. And there's these two bees having intercourse, advertising some sort of sex honey. And there's nothing I can do about it! Can you believe that? This Facebook culture just makes me buzz.


(All the other bees)- bullwinkl's buzzin' o-off! bullwinkl's buzzin' o-off!"

(bullwinkl)- "No I'm NOT!"

(Other bees)- "Then how come there's HONEY all over your sheets?!?"

/-paraphrased from an old SNL skit

There needs to be a death penalty for corporations, and yes, that means the shareholders lose all their money in the corporation.

And such a death penalty should lead to long jail sentences for any officer of the company and board members too.

bob_ross: 6.5 billion for a farking BRIDGE?

St Louis is building a new one over the Mississippi including several miles of intestate and numerous interchanges to connect it, all for the low, low price of 670 million. Of course the bridge itself is much smaller in scale but nonetheless people whine about the cost.

Meanwhile, the Rams want St Louisians to pay to renovate a stadium for $700 million which one could call a "stadium to nowhere."

Oh, and CalTrans could use a few jail sentences as well.

spentmiles: ... This Facebook culture just makes me sick.

Looks like you already caught your limit today. Well played.

Ever since the earthquake in '89 they have been working on that bridge-remeber when a whole top section broke and people actually drove off to the lower deck. What I want to know is when the hell is someone going to fix a road in the East Bay period, seriously, you wonder why so many people drive SUVs in the Bay Area-they must be driving in the East Bay.

/brother lives in Castro Valley, I biatch about the roads everytime I go.

bob_ross: 6.5 billion for a farking BRIDGE?

CalTrans is an employment company that occasionally makes potholes. I mean, they fill potholes occasionally.

/you have to add in the numbers for worker pensions, director's puffy pants, lack of director's puffy pants, and then you get the California-style budget

/I take BART. My commute is safe, I'm sure. It's homeless housing on rails! What could possibly go wrong?

Worst part of BART for me was the air pressure changes in the trans-bay tubes.

Painful as hell, and noobdy else seems to notice or care.

spentmiles: I'm visiting my parents and using their computer, so the regular ad-blocking stuff isn't in effect. What the fark? I'm two paragraphs into the article and the screen goes black. Then a window opens up, using some crapping venetian rendering that the designer probably thought looked awesome. Then with no warning a video starts to play which shows two full grown men having sex with each other. I tried to close it, but the ad said, "You may close this video in 5 seconds." I may? May I? Really? During the five second wait (more like ten seconds), my grandson comes into the room and sits on my lap. And there's these two guys having intercourse, advertising some sort of sex lotion. And there's nothing I can do about it! Can you believe that? This Facebook culture just makes me sick.

I just read this aloud to my husband. We're laughing hysterically. Thank you!

Did someone say Kiewit?

http://medina.komonews.com/news/busin ess/752087-520-bridge-constructi o n-company-investigating-employee-drink ing

Good luck Washington commuters.

Measurements conflated meters and feet, creating ambiguities about where to find pockets of irregular concrete.

Does this scare anyone more than the rest of the stuff? It does me.

/Don't try to go to the Oakland side.

I am sick of Sacramento being the dumping ground for every Bay Aryan reject -- the yuppie slimebags, degenerate cheapskates, failed artists, uneducated heroin junkies and closeted unattractive homosexuals. They come here, complain about Sacramento, whine about the commute, ruin everything and don't spend a dime here except to buy booze, drugs and filth. That damned bridge can fall into the ocean, I'd love it. It would be an end to the Bay Aryan plague. They couldn't get to their precious frisco, the fetid stinking cocksoar east coast aberation that is a pustule upon Northern California. They'd need to move back, the ideal situation, or find another place to 'work' besides frisco. DIAF Bay Bridge.

/ Come at me, Bay Aryans

TyrantII: And a good reason why is public bidding. We used to get shiat done, done well, and done on time.... then came the "tax and spending" is evil yahoo's that demanded that public infrastructure construction go to a bid system where they take the absolute lowest bid in a attempt to save tax dollars.

Actually from what I've read here and there for the last twenty years most public works projects (steel and concrete) are pretty much coming in on time and on budget. But only as long as the project is adequately funded during the construction phase. Stretch out construction and the costs go up.

The Bay bridge wasn't adequately funded, was started too early by Gray Davis for self serving political reasons and there was dickering over the design of the final span that delayed things. That added a billion to a billion and a half to the cost.

I'd guess that the questionably built new bridge would still stand up in an earthquake better than the aging old bridge.

CrazyCurt: I am sick of Sacramento being the dumping ground for every Bay Aryan reject -- the yuppie slimebags, degenerate cheapskates, failed artists, uneducated heroin junkies and closeted unattractive homosexuals. They come here, complain about Sacramento, whine about the commute, ruin everything and don't spend a dime here except to buy booze, drugs and filth. That damned bridge can fall into the ocean, I'd love it. It would be an end to the Bay Aryan plague. They couldn't get to their precious frisco, the fetid stinking cocksoar east coast aberation that is a pustule upon Northern California. They'd need to move back, the ideal situation, or find another place to 'work' besides frisco. DIAF Bay Bridge.

/ Come at me, Bay Aryans

I do, via the Dumbarton Bridge and 580.

CrazyCurt: I am sick of Sacramento being the dumping ground for every Bay Aryan reject -- the yuppie slimebags, degenerate cheapskates, failed artists, uneducated heroin junkies and closeted unattractive homosexuals. They come here, complain about Sacramento, whine about the commute, ruin everything and don't spend a dime here except to buy booze, drugs and filth. That damned bridge can fall into the ocean, I'd love it. It would be an end to the Bay Aryan plague. They couldn't get to their precious frisco, the fetid stinking cocksoar east coast aberation that is a pustule upon Northern California. They'd need to move back, the ideal situation, or find another place to 'work' besides frisco. DIAF Bay Bridge.

/ Come at me, Bay Aryans

I liked everything about that rant, cowtowner.

CrazyCurt: I am sick of Sacramento being the dumping ground for every Bay Aryan reject -- the yuppie slimebags, degenerate cheapskates, failed artists, uneducated heroin junkies and closeted unattractive homosexuals. ... DIAF Bay Bridge.

Famous Downtown Sacramento Waterfront including its world famous "Tower Bridge Gateway"

Old news for Zilwaukee bridge. At least we can take I-675 around it when they have shut down to pretend like they are going to fix it. Well as long as I-675 is not shut down for repairs itself.

studebaker hoch: Worst part of BART for me was the air pressure changes in the trans-bay tubes.

Painful as hell, and noobdy else seems to notice or care.

If it's painful you should get yer head checked. I've been through that tube (slept through it is more accurate) more times than I care to remember and never experienced anything more than a slight feeling of pressure.

HiFiGuy: I'd guess that the questionably built new bridge would still stand up in an earthquake better than the aging old bridge.

You might think so, but the old eastern span is quite a hunk of steel. I'd still be tempted to call 50/50 on its chances versus the new span collapsing first.

sk8r:

I got something in Spanish and I'm a glow-in-the-dark Anglo from Vermont.

Dayum, is Yankee leaking that badly?

The Smails Kid: miss diminutive: Is there a chance the bridge could bend?

You bet your ass, my Hindu friend.

Oh, I missed this before, a Simpson reference. I bow to you two.

The Smails Kid:
The bridge is not finished yet, there's still a chance.

Ah, good point. Given the way things are going there, that may actually be a distinct possibility.

CrazyCurt:

/ Come at me, Bay Aryans

Frisco Nazis? I had no idea.

TyrantII: danno_to_infinity: bob_ross: 6.5 billion for a farking BRIDGE?

heh, they got off lightly. Ever hear of the Big Dig?

supposed to cost 2 billion, ended up costing over 14 billion not including interest owed on bonds floated to pay for it, scheduled to take 7 years, ended up taking 16. And it is not over, as parts are falling down and killing people.

And a good reason why is public bidding. We used to get shiat done, done well, and done on time.... then came the "tax and spending" is evil yahoo's that demanded that public infrastructure construction go to a bid system where they take the absolute lowest bid in a attempt to save tax dollars.

And what happens?

Smaller firms and companies massively underbid a realistic estimate, both in time and money. What we get is sub quality work, cost overruns and time overruns.

It ain't rocket science. When you get a bid by the Walmarts of the construction world, you get Walmart furniture. Spending a little bit more, and including quality and time clauses with major penalties in contracts would be a smarter way to protect the public investment.

The problem with major penalties is that the company will just go under as one entity and re-establish itself as another entity or threaten to do the same.
A company isn't a person.

utah dude: @gtp California routinely relies on lowest bidder construction and ends up getting bitten in the butt for doing so.

An argument for doing things right or over-engineering things is so that they absolutely last and can be used for other things if need be. I.e. freeway overpass can become nuke/tsunami protection. we've gotten away from 'biggest and strongest' to 'cheapest and green/biodegradable'.

Reminds me. A plane has been flown into the Empire State Building.

cryinoutloud: TheShavingofOccam123: over-engineering. there's a reason why we used to do it.

That sounds like something that would require more taxes. What are you, some kind of filthy socialist?

Meh, this is part of the problem: Over-engineering.

Stuff in California has to be designed and built to withstand the biggest possible earthquake the wonks at Stanford and Berkeley can imagine and the geeks at CalTech can design for. This might be creating (and I'm only guessing) a backlash among out-of-state contractors who think we're being overly cautious and/or dramatic and they do a job that would be okay anywhere else but which won't pass muster in California.

Example: I notice that the article keeps referencing "an extreme earthquake." The bridge might or might not "withstand an extreme earthquake." Thing is, we don't GET "extreme earthquakes" out here a lot, what we get is a lot more moderate ones. I frankly don't care if the Bay Bridge will hold up under a very rare 9.0 quake; what I'm more worried about is whether it will survive 15 or 20 7.0 ones over the course of its life. Out of staters are worse: They figure "Why are we doing this 193rd stress test for these granola-eating freaks? Everyone knows The Big One is going to take out the whole state anyway!" So they have a good incentive to cut corners--because back in Kansas, there'd be no need for the extra test, or to wait one more day for the concrete to cure.

Now if the Bridge is likely to fail under a smaller quake--that's something I'm more worried about. I don't see any evidence of that.

vrax: HiFiGuy: I'd guess that the questionably built new bridge would still stand up in an earthquake better than the aging old bridge.

You might think so, but the old eastern span is quite a hunk of steel. I'd still be tempted to call 50/50 on its chances versus the new span collapsing first.

Well, there was the failure of the road deck supports in '89 that precipitated this whole bridge replacement project. And, that eyebar that fell back in 2009. They couldn'tve been that shoddy with their construction, could they have been? Hmmmmm...

That said... "Subby, ain't nobody crossing the new San Francisco-Oakland Bay Bridge" yet.

/Was in Berkeley back in '89. I remember the Loma Prieta quake well.

forgotmydamnusername: ThighsofGlory: Having worked for both Kiewit (Cypress Structure, Bay Bridge, Ralston Ave Overcrossing, Benicia Bridge) and Myers (SFO, Bay Bridge, 580/680 interchange) they should have gone with CC Myers. Mr. Myers is too cheap to kick back, though.

I've only worked for a division of Kiewit. It was all I needed to see.

Engineer, I take it?
I was a Pilebutt. A welder/bridge carpenter to be specific.

Hmmmm... CalTrans having problems, probably due to incompetence?

That's kind of what happens when you promote only minorities, regardless of qualifications.

/ex wife of CalTrans engineer
//he is white
///he's no longer there
////don't care if he's ever promoted anywhere

Is Kiewit like this on all their projects? Cause here in BC the new Port Mann bridge is a Kiewit project..and 98 tonnes of shiat is already collapsing..

SomeCallMeTim: I wouldn't worry too much about the bridge. I'd be more concerned about going to Oakland.

I've been there. Last time I visited the US I took the train to Oakland to have a look. I was wandering around by myself with no problems. I didn't even realize it was a dodgy place until many years later reading FARK comments.

utah dude: @gtp California routinely relies on lowest bidder construction and ends up getting bitten in the butt for doing so.

An argument for doing things right or over-engineering things is so that they absolutely last and can be used for other things if need be. I.e. freeway overpass can become nuke/tsunami protection. we've gotten away from 'biggest and strongest' to 'cheapest and green/biodegradable'.

Actually, designing something to be green or eco friendly will cost more. Cheapest is unlikely to be ecologically sound.

bob_ross: 6.5 billion for a farking BRIDGE?

Blame the hippies.

UNAUTHORIZED FINGER: red5ish: When I need hard hitting journalism I turn to The Sacramento Bee.

When I started in the newspaper business, the McClatchy name was respected for its hard news. They've cut their international and local news staffs to the bare bones, shrunk the newshole, put advertising people in charge of everything, and wonder why no one reads a newspaper anymore. After the dirty tricks I saw from the Minneapolis Star-Tribune, (a McClatchy paper) directed toward the Saint Paul Pioneer Press, (who I worked for) I couldn't ethically work for or with them, nor recommend them to anyone with integrity.

What really sucks is that I grew up in a McClatchy city (Modesto) and two family members working there; basically grew up with a deep abiding respect for the importance of the fourth estate. Then I get out of college and the whole paper has revamped itself with half the pages, now mostly opinion, lifestyle and AP news, and a couple of years ago they cut dailies down to ten friggen pages with a "Go online to see more daily updates!" Of course, the only thing online was wire stories and traffic accidents, and at this point I don't think they even cover crime and traffic anymore, it's all teh Googles now.

If you want to have any idea of what's actually going on in your city now, your only option seems to be hoping someone with a blog is irritated enough to write about it without being so smug you want to gouge his eyeballs first. The papers and the news channels sure won't cover anything that needs actual reporting, since that's all geared toward human interest and celebrities now.

skinink: bob_ross: 6.5 billion for a farking BRIDGE? $14.5 Billion for a 3.5 mile underground tunnel that leaks year round and has falling ceilings that kill people? Welcome to Boston's Big Dig!

All tunnels that go under a body of water leak, which is why there are tons of water pumps in them. The falling pieces are unacceptable though.