"Base Ruth" ?

I always enjoyed this guy as a kid.

The Teddy Roosevelt of MLB.

I was dumbstruck when I saw the headline and pondered the notion of Reggie Jackson calling out boorish behavior by baseball players, but apparently he's okay with it for himself and others he deems talent-worthy. No surprise there.

Can you imagine if they'd have had Twitter in Reggie's day? Dude would have been sending out tweets from every base as he rounded them after a homer. "2nd base, feeling good. Hands still stinging a bit from that moon shot, but the price you pay #humblebrag".

It's the job of veterans to take the kids aside and say "This not how we do things here.". The other way of handling it is making sure every time one these morons gets up to bat he worries about the inside fastball. Closers are different. You can't throw at them, you can't do any of the normal stuff baseball has done for the last 150 years.

I feel like I should drop some sort of statistics into this thread.

jayhawk88: Can you imagine if they'd have had Twitter in Reggie's day? Dude would have been sending out tweets from every base as he rounded them after a homer. "2nd base, feeling good. Hands still stinging a bit from that moon shot, but the price you pay #humblebrag".

You may be too young to remember that for a while, Jose Canseco had a heavily advertised 900- number where people could pay to listen to him say something.

Sliding Carp: jayhawk88: Can you imagine if they'd have had Twitter in Reggie's day? Dude would have been sending out tweets from every base as he rounded them after a homer. "2nd base, feeling good. Hands still stinging a bit from that moon shot, but the price you pay #humblebrag".

You may be too young to remember that for a while, Jose Canseco had a heavily advertised 900- number where people could pay to listen to him say something.

"Let's see what's in the papers today....Canada stalls on trade talks..."

Too young....get off my lawn hippie!

I don't mind the emotion and hooting and shiat so much, but I do mind a few things:
-Double standards where pitchers talk shiat about hitters posturing when pitchers do it every inning
-Acting like you won the goddamned World Series when you close out a game in April

funk_soul_bubby: I feel like I should drop some sort of statistics into this thread.

Reggie may be the career leader in strikeouts, but he was still an excellent offensive player. His approach was to wait for mistakes and crush them, which leads to both walks, home runs, and strikeouts. You can strike out a good bit when you hit with power and lay off the stuff out of the strike zone.

Out of the top 50 for strikeouts, 13 are in the Hall of Fame now, and the following either will be inducted, or would only be excluded for steroids:

Would-be Locks: Thome, Sosa, Bonds, McGwire, Manny, Griffey Jr., Jeter
Maybes: Biggio, Andruw, Bagwell.

There really aren't any bad players on that list, so it's hard to argue that racking up strikeouts over your career is a sign that Reggie was a flawed hitter.

If you're going to pick on Reggie, focus on the fact that he was famous as much for being an asshole (on and off the field) as he was for being a great baseball player, and yet he feels qualified to announce that today's players are jerks.

Mind you, he's also from a generation that applauds when a pitcher hits a batter intentionally to "make a point", or a runner railroads a catcher or takes out a middle infielder with a slide. All of these things, while legal, can end a player's season. But celebrating a victory is a problem?

bhcompy: I don't mind the emotion and hooting and shiat so much, but I do mind a few things:
-Double standards where pitchers talk shiat about hitters posturing when pitchers do it every inning
-Acting like you won the goddamned World Series when you close out a game in April

There's a difference between a World Series game and a regular-season game, but there shouldn't be a difference between winning in April and winning in September. They all count the same.

(Actually, winning in April has a bigger impact. If you lose early, your management may trade away players for draft picks and prospects, magnifying the impact of those losses on your season. Conversely, an early hot streak often convinces management to bring in more talent.)

chimp_ninja: If you're going to pick on Reggie, focus on the fact that he was famous as much for being an asshole (on and off the field) as he was for being a great baseball player, and yet he feels qualified to announce that today's players are jerks.

That was more where I was coming from. He was great, but a giant dick.

I love Bonds, and he is the same. Great, maybe the greatest... Still a giant dick.

No sport biatches as much as baseball regarding celebrations. I mean, pitchers get angry if someone watches their home run shot instead of immediately running the bases.

SkittlesAreYum: No sport biatches as much as baseball regarding celebrations. I mean, pitchers get angry if someone watches their home run shot instead of immediately running the bases.

If you mean from other players, I'll probably agree with you.
If you mean from the league itself, its the NFL hands down.

chimp_ninja: bhcompy: I don't mind the emotion and hooting and shiat so much, but I do mind a few things:
-Double standards where pitchers talk shiat about hitters posturing when pitchers do it every inning
-Acting like you won the goddamned World Series when you close out a game in April

There's a difference between a World Series game and a regular-season game, but there shouldn't be a difference between winning in April and winning in September. They all count the same.

(Actually, winning in April has a bigger impact. If you lose early, your management may trade away players for draft picks and prospects, magnifying the impact of those losses on your season. Conversely, an early hot streak often convinces management to bring in more talent.)

Don't apply sabermetrics to emotional responses. There is no stat for that.

You're only allowed to have style if you're the straw that stirs the drink. Pretty simple.

His first season with the Kansas City A's, he came up to bat with a runner on first and one out. With one strike on him, he was given the "hit & run" sign. Next pitch, he watched it for strike two, and saw the runner get thrown out easily at second. When he got back to the dugout after striking out, his manager asked him if he didn't see the hit & run sign. He then asked, "What in the hell is a hit & run?"

Reggie really only can comment on being a colossal asshole, something he has a ton of experience at.

chimp_ninja: (Actually, winning in April has a bigger impact. If you lose early, your management may trade away players for draft picks and prospects, magnifying the impact of those losses on your season. Conversely, an early hot streak often convinces management to bring in more talent.)

Huh. You're right, I'd never thought of it like that. Also, you comment about Reggie being an excellent offensive player, reminds me that he could be an excellent defensive player, when he applied himself. Remember him gunning down Billy Buckner (haha, Billy Buckner, the World Series all-time goat) trying to stretch a double into a triple in the 1974 World Series? Reggie had a cannon, and he knew it. He liked to dare runners to go, then often would throw a bullet into the second row of seats behind third base.

chimp_ninja: Maybes: Biggio, Andruw, Bagwell.

I just want to point out, that in a just world where defense was actually valued, Andruw Jones would be a lock. Not necessarily first ballot, but a lock.

425 hr and the best CF in a few decades? That's a Hall of Famer.

Not a fan of Reggie, but I understand his point. You can't be hitting .220, run into a fastball, and then act like a buffoon. Well, you can, but expect to be on your ass the next time you're in the box.

In fact, that's a lot of the problem -- not enough guys end up on their ass the next time.

Dafatone: chimp_ninja: Maybes: Biggio, Andruw, Bagwell.

I just want to point out, that in a just world where defense was actually valued, Andruw Jones would be a lock. Not necessarily first ballot, but a lock.

425 hr and the best CF in a few decades? That's a Hall of Famer.

Agreed.

Dafatone: chimp_ninja: Maybes: Biggio, Andruw, Bagwell.

I just want to point out, that in a just world where defense was actually valued, Andruw Jones would be a lock. Not necessarily first ballot, but a lock.

425 hr and the best CF in a few decades? That's a Hall of Famer.

Problem is he's suffering from the same problem that will plague Donovan McNabb in football: his post-prime years are so awful they hurt his HoF chances

ChrisDe: Not a fan of Reggie, but I understand his point. You can't be hitting .220, run into a fastball, and then act like a buffoon. Well, you can, but expect to be on your ass the next time you're in the box.

In fact, that's a lot of the problem -- not enough guys end up on their ass the next time.

Hitters dive over the plate and no longer put much of an effort in to get out of the way. If you try to brush back the buffoon who took you deep, you're probably gonna wind up hitting him and getting ejected.

Remember, the rule says that the hitter must make an effort to avoid a pitch. Not simply that the hitter can't lean into it. Technically, if you stand perfectly still and get hit, the pitch should be a ball (or a strike if it's in the zone.)

Good luck getting that called ever.

Oh no, is Reggie back on the steroids? Reggie roid rage! Where is Enrico Palazzo when you need him?

Dafatone: chimp_ninja: Maybes: Biggio, Andruw, Bagwell.

I just want to point out, that in a just world where defense was actually valued, Andruw Jones would be a lock. Not necessarily first ballot, but a lock.

425 hr and the best CF in a few decades? That's a Hall of Famer.

I absolutely agree. I'd also argue that Biggio is overrated, but I put those names down as people I thought would probably get in, not that they probably deserved to get in.

bhcompy: Problem is he's suffering from the same problem that will plague Donovan McNabb in football: his post-prime years are so awful they hurt his HoF chances

From 2009-2012, Andruw Jones has been an above-average offensive player. (.228/.336/.477, 113 OPS+) He doesn't hit for average, but he's good for 30 HR and 70 walks per 162 games, so it evens out. He can't play Cf any more, but he's been above-average as a LF/RF defender.

The offensive numbers get inflated because he platoons, but he hasn't been "terrible" by any stretch. "Prime" Andruw often hit about .260, but brought a ton of value to his team.

bhcompy: chimp_ninja: bhcompy: I don't mind the emotion and hooting and shiat so much, but I do mind a few things:
-Double standards where pitchers talk shiat about hitters posturing when pitchers do it every inning
-Acting like you won the goddamned World Series when you close out a game in April

There's a difference between a World Series game and a regular-season game, but there shouldn't be a difference between winning in April and winning in September. They all count the same.

(Actually, winning in April has a bigger impact. If you lose early, your management may trade away players for draft picks and prospects, magnifying the impact of those losses on your season. Conversely, an early hot streak often convinces management to bring in more talent.)

Don't apply sabermetrics to emotional responses. There is no stat for that.

I guess you consider "sabermetrics" analysis to be anything more complicated than grunting and farting. Now sit in the corner and drink your Brawndo.

Not really sure why the author is picking out Nyjer Morgan. He is insane, plain and simple. I think he is phenomenally entertaining as a Brewer fan and definitely wish he was doing better this year, but I do not understand why he was pointed out as a crappy player that disrespects the sport. Not only is Nyjer having the worst season in his career (way to cherry-pick that stat), but has not done ONE thing controversial or attention-grabbing this year. He still tweets, but it is incredibly tame compared to last year.

I get that Cardinal fans don't like him because he turned around once when Carpenter yelled "F*** you " at him and then called out Pujols on Twitter for running in from first when Nyjer was walking away. That being said, both Carpenter and Pujols are d-bags (along with La Russa), who need to stop thinking they are the arbiters of what is appropriate in baseball.

So what if the guy put on an Army helmet and told the media he was going to celebrate the playoff win by taking a bubble bath? That's hilarity that in no way disrespects the game and shows a bit more personality than Ryan "One More Cliche" Braun, who has been known to throw out a fist pump or two around the bases. Still not as awesome as Axford's note though...



///Most people thought that was hilarious, even though he took the "Gotta go" from Nyjer, who had been using it to end interviews all last year.

chimp_ninja: From 2009-2012, Andruw Jones has been an above-average offensive player. (.228/.336/.477, 113 OPS+) He doesn't hit for average, but he's good for 30 HR and 70 walks per 162 games, so it evens out. He can't play Cf any more, but he's been above-average as a LF/RF defender.

The offensive numbers get inflated because he platoons, but he hasn't been "terrible" by any stretch. "Prime" Andruw often hit about .260, but brought a ton of value to his team.

There's also the high profile Dodger year, which you ignored, and 2009 was not a "good" year. Plus, he's not even close to an everyday player. Jones is wasted talent. Got fat and lost it.

Flamboyance? Hm. I'm relatively new to the MLB, as far as paying attention to anything outside the Rangers-verse, but.... have I missed something? Because it seems to me that MLB players are the LEAST flamboyant and celebratory and pompous and braggy. The NFL is absolutely the worst.

Di Atribe: Flamboyance? Hm. I'm relatively new to the MLB, as far as paying attention to anything outside the Rangers-verse, but.... have I missed something? Because it seems to me that MLB players are the LEAST flamboyant and celebratory and pompous and braggy. The NFL is absolutely the worst.

You're right, but a bunch of white people get upset any time anyone shows emotion.

"I know it's entertainment, but if you have style and can't play, then you're nothing more than a fool. I see a lot of fools out there."

What Jackson might be witnessing is a shift in mentality when it comes to self-expression. Yes, the more accomplished players still tend to get more leeway in their antics.

It's not just the MLB. My favorite was a Packers game a few years back (I think against the Saints) where the Packers were easily winning with hardly any time left. Other team scores a meaningless touchdown and the dude who scored got all psyched up and taunted the championship belt move to the Packers. Really dude? You're about to lose the game and you're gonna taunt the other team and brag about your score? It really is just foolishness.

I like the new style. So there.

lennavan: My favorite was a Packers game a few years back (I think against the Saints) where the Packers were easily winning with hardly any time left. Other team scores a meaningless touchdown and the dude who scored got all psyched up and taunted the championship belt move to the Packers. Really dude? You're about to lose the game and you're gonna taunt the other team and brag about your score? It really is just foolishness.

Couldn't have been a few years ago, that's only been a thing for 3 years or so.

/I think the Giants became the first team to win a game against the Packers wherein one of their players did it, though I'm not 100% sure they did it

Di Atribe: Flamboyance? Hm. I'm relatively new to the MLB, as far as paying attention to anything outside the Rangers-verse, but.... have I missed something? Because it seems to me that MLB players are the LEAST flamboyant and celebratory and pompous and braggy. The NFL is absolutely the worst.

Only because of the charts. If MLB had charts, we would never hear the end of it.

lennavan: It's not just the MLB. My favorite was a Packers game a few years back (I think against the Saints) where the Packers were easily winning with hardly any time left. Other team scores a meaningless touchdown and the dude who scored got all psyched up and taunted the championship belt move to the Packers. Really dude? You're about to lose the game and you're gonna taunt the other team and brag about your score? It really is just foolishness.

The worst ever was a college football game between OU and Texas A & M. OU ran the ball up the middle on 4th, and the defender tackled the carrier short, causing a turnover on downs. He got all psyched and did his celebratory dance.

The score at the time: OU 77 - A&M 0.

bhcompy: chimp_ninja: From 2009-2012, Andruw Jones has been an above-average offensive player. (.228/.336/.477, 113 OPS+) He doesn't hit for average, but he's good for 30 HR and 70 walks per 162 games, so it evens out. He can't play Cf any more, but he's been above-average as a LF/RF defender.

The offensive numbers get inflated because he platoons, but he hasn't been "terrible" by any stretch. "Prime" Andruw often hit about .260, but brought a ton of value to his team.

There's also the high profile Dodger year, which you ignored, and 2009 was not a "good" year. Plus, he's not even close to an everyday player. Jones is wasted talent. Got fat and lost it.

Going to Dodger games for 25+ years, I've never seen the fans boo a Dodger as badly as Andruw Jones. Not even FP Santangelo.

SevenizGud: OU ran the ball up the middle on 4th, and the defender tackled the carrier short, causing a turnover on downs. He got all psyched and did his celebratory dance.

The score at the time: OU 77 - A&M 0.

I dunno, at that point it becomes a F*CK YEAH WE ACTUALLY DID SOMETHING RIGHT dance.

Like I'll usually make a point of saying "woohoo!" in a pickup basketball game after scoring the first point after being down 9-0 or something ridiculous like that.

/a couple days ago came back from 11-0 to win 15-13
//CSB but whatever, I wanted it out there

IAmRight: lennavan: My favorite was a Packers game a few years back (I think against the Saints) where the Packers were easily winning with hardly any time left. Other team scores a meaningless touchdown and the dude who scored got all psyched up and taunted the championship belt move to the Packers. Really dude? You're about to lose the game and you're gonna taunt the other team and brag about your score? It really is just foolishness.

Couldn't have been a few years ago, that's only been a thing for 3 years or so.

/I think the Giants became the first team to win a game against the Packers wherein one of their players did it, though I'm not 100% sure they did it

Yeah, I did know it was recent. I was just too lazy before but I found it now:

42-27 Pack was winning near the end of the 4th quarter. Jimmy Graham on the Saints scored a TD with 2 mins left. http://content.usatoday.com/sportsdata /football/nfl/game/Saints_Packer s/2011/09/08#box-score I can't find a video with his subsequent celebration though.

Trocadero: bhcompy: chimp_ninja: From 2009-2012, Andruw Jones has been an above-average offensive player. (.228/.336/.477, 113 OPS+) He doesn't hit for average, but he's good for 30 HR and 70 walks per 162 games, so it evens out. He can't play Cf any more, but he's been above-average as a LF/RF defender.

The offensive numbers get inflated because he platoons, but he hasn't been "terrible" by any stretch. "Prime" Andruw often hit about .260, but brought a ton of value to his team.

There's also the high profile Dodger year, which you ignored, and 2009 was not a "good" year. Plus, he's not even close to an everyday player. Jones is wasted talent. Got fat and lost it.

Going to Dodger games for 25+ years, I've never seen the fans boo a Dodger as badly as Andruw Jones. Not even FP Santangelo.

When Juan Pierre is a better player than you are(and Juan had a negative WAR that year), you're really doing something wrong. That's why Dodger fans liked Juan and hated Andruw.

roc6783: Di Atribe: Flamboyance? Hm. I'm relatively new to the MLB, as far as paying attention to anything outside the Rangers-verse, but.... have I missed something? Because it seems to me that MLB players are the LEAST flamboyant and celebratory and pompous and braggy. The NFL is absolutely the worst.

Only because of the charts. If MLB had charts, we would never hear the end of it.

WHAT CHARTS WHERE DO YOU KNOW ANY



I don't think I've updated it in a while. Got most of my responses during the playoffs last year, which is probably why the Tigers & Rangers have such huge chunks. Link in profile if you want to play. I'll probably try to update it this afternoon, so if anyone has suggestions, let me know. HURRAY

suck it new breed base ball player.

any of y'all got a candy bar named after you?

bhcompy: There's also the high profile Dodger year, which you ignored, and 2009 was not a "good" year. Plus, he's not even close to an everyday player. Jones is wasted talent. Got fat and lost it.

That's true. The Dodgers paid him an obcene amount of money, and he showed up to training camp 35 lbs overweight. Never got back to being as good as he was in Atlanta.

That said, Andruw Jones was the best centerfielder in the NL for a decade. I don't mean "one of the best". I mean "the best centerfielder in the NL". For a decade. Not for 6 years, or 7 years. Won the Gold Glove 10 years in a row. And he put up over 400 HR. Is that enough? For the Hall, I mean?

Di Atribe: I don't think I've updated it in a while. Got most of my responses during the playoffs last year, which is probably why the Tigers & Rangers have such huge chunks. Link in profile if you want to play. I'll probably try to update it this afternoon, so if anyone has suggestions, let me know. HURRAY

My response has been recorded. This is like the highlight of my day.

Sin_City_Superhero: bhcompy: There's also the high profile Dodger year, which you ignored, and 2009 was not a "good" year. Plus, he's not even close to an everyday player. Jones is wasted talent. Got fat and lost it.

That's true. The Dodgers paid him an obcene amount of money, and he showed up to training camp 35 lbs overweight. Never got back to being as good as he was in Atlanta.

That said, Andruw Jones was the best centerfielder in the NL for a decade. I don't mean "one of the best". I mean "the best centerfielder in the NL". For a decade. Not for 6 years, or 7 years. Won the Gold Glove 10 years in a row. And he put up over 400 HR. Is that enough? For the Hall, I mean?

He doesn't get enough defensive credit because he didn't make as many highlight reel plays. You don't have to when you're already moving to where the ball'shiat at full speed, at the crack of the bat.

And what's with ball players doing movie cameos?

Dafatone: He doesn't get enough defensive credit because he didn't make as many highlight reel plays. You don't have to when you're already moving to where the ball'shiat at full speed, at the crack of the bat.

He played as shallow as anyone I can remember. No cheap hits with him in Center.