That's not what the article says at all. The closest it comes to saying that is here:

In addition to using Google to search forums, blogs and cyberlockers for infringements, Peter and his colleagues also engage in the most controversial anti-piracy work - tracking down file-sharers on P2P networks such as BitTorrent in order to extract cash settlements from them.

Hiring strangers to track you down is a completely different thing from offering bounties to your friends to turn you in.

I just had a vision of Dog busting down my door while my friend sitting next to me says; "Dude, I'm sorry."

Now the hipsters will wear those "Snitches get Stiches" shirts and actually mean it.

You could just submit all the names in a college student registry and retire.

Solution: Only obtain illegal mp3s from friends. Drag 'em down with ya.

thurstonxhowell: That's not what the article says at all. The closest it comes to saying that is here:

In addition to using Google to search forums, blogs and cyberlockers for infringements, Peter and his colleagues also engage in the most controversial anti-piracy work - tracking down file-sharers on P2P networks such as BitTorrent in order to extract cash settlements from them.

Hiring strangers to track you down is a completely different thing from offering bounties to your friends to turn you in.

Not only that, but bounties and rewards for piracy have been around for a while.

Solution: pay for music you want to own. Use MySpace or your favorite band's website if you want to listen for free.

Just in case not everyone brought their copy of the script today, this is where the rest of you jump on me for being a RIAA shill.

/Nothing in life is free - even if the seller is an asshole.

There is no need for record companys anymore.
There are too many ways to get music out and the idea of a talentless drone telling us who we should listen to days are nearly over.

I will enjoy watching the record companys disapear one by one.

Fuggin Bizzy: Solution: pay for music you want to own. Use MySpace or your favorite band's website if you want to listen for free.

Just in case not everyone brought their copy of the script today, this is where the rest of you jump on me for being a RIAA shill.

/Nothing in life is free - even if the seller is an asshole.

I agree to a point , Pay the people who make the music, Not someone who is making money off the back off someone who actually has talent.

As a musician, Peter says he has also been personally hit by piracy. After selling an album of his band's music after concerts, to his annoyance even his friends were copying his music.

Oh f*ck him. Like he never asked the nerdy guy to fix his computer or the chick with the mechanic boyfriend to take a look at his car for free.

Nhojwolfe: There is no need for record companys anymore.
There are too many ways to get music out and the idea of a talentless drone telling us who we should listen to days are nearly over.

I will enjoy watching the record companys disapear one by one.

Lets see.

No need for major labels to hook up artists with studios/producers anymore. With cheap, digital recording equipment almost anyone can put out a demo. It doesn't take much more than a few hundred bucks and a bit of know-how to make it sound good enough, almost professional.

No need for major labels to distribute anymore. iTunes, Amazon, etc let independents and small labels sell through their giant digital stores. Most people will opt to skip the middle man and get more money out of it.

The only thing I can think of is advertising and smoothing over tours. A bit of viral marketing can be done cheap and if the stuff is good, it'll catch anyway. A tour van/bus plus hotels and merchandise can be pricey. Setting up a tour really just takes time and lots of phone calls/emails. That can be done by one competent, organised person.

That's two major pillars of their business chopped off by technology and the other bits eroded.

goodluckimbehindsevenproxies.jpeg

Who has that kind of "friend" ? Sure I could see a buddy ratting me out for the $$ but none of my friends are clean either.

As someone who works (independently) in the lower levels of the entertainment industry, I have to say that agents are useful in some cases for DJ's simply for the fact that it is really time consuming to find events outside of your area of knowledge, track down the managers/owners of those clubs make a deal, and then do that 15+ more times and make it so the dates don't conflict can be hard.

That being said, agents in Texas can only take up to 20%

Nhojwolfe: I agree to a point , Pay the people who make the music, Not someone who is making money off the back off someone who actually has talent.

Record labels provide musicians a means of distribution and marketing. In exchange, they (generally) demand the musician sign away the rights to their music. And yes, the terms are sharkish and yes record labels are notorious bastards...but they do add some value that musicians would find difficult to duplicate on their own.

Plus, I've heard this point made so many times to justify never paying for music at all that I'm always skeptical. If you're going to live shows and buying merchandise, then good on you. (As far as I know, musicians get a larger percentage of those revenues than record sales.) If you never pay anything because f*ck the man, then f*ck off.

They would have to pay me at least $25

So can we start turning in record bosses for the bounty for everything illegal they use?

Ham Sandvich: Nhojwolfe: There is no need for record companys anymore.
There are too many ways to get music out and the idea of a talentless drone telling us who we should listen to days are nearly over.

I will enjoy watching the record companys disapear one by one.

Lets see.

No need for major labels to hook up artists with studios/producers anymore. With cheap, digital recording equipment almost anyone can put out a demo. It doesn't take much more than a few hundred bucks and a bit of know-how to make it sound good enough, almost professional.

No need for major labels to distribute anymore. iTunes, Amazon, etc let independents and small labels sell through their giant digital stores. Most people will opt to skip the middle man and get more money out of it.

The only thing I can think of is advertising and smoothing over tours. A bit of viral marketing can be done cheap and if the stuff is good, it'll catch anyway. A tour van/bus plus hotels and merchandise can be pricey. Setting up a tour really just takes time and lots of phone calls/emails. That can be done by one competent, organised person.

That's two major pillars of their business chopped off by technology and the other bits eroded.

I think you underestimate the amount of research required to find gigs in cities you've never been to, or the amount of effort to reward for viral marketing in most cases.

As much as it boggles my mind, Radio still generates numbers. When the groups I work with promote and plan an event, you can have 3000+ (that actually live in the city) say they are going to attend an event, and end up with 500-800.

While same caliber event with same general line up, not a lot of online marketing but play advertisements on the radio a week before? 2000+ plus. The problem is, unless you are part of an organization that can buy chunks of radio airtime at a cheap discount from clear channel, the prices are really expensive in comparison to everything else.

Nhojwolfe: There is no need for record companys anymore.
There are too many ways to get music out and the idea of a talentless drone telling us who we should listen to days are nearly over.

I will enjoy watching the record companys disapear one by one.

This.

Wipe out the record companies and let artists get back to actually making music instead of meeting quotas, and I might actually spend some money on this crap instead of ripping it off youtube.

Ham Sandvich: The only thing I can think of is advertising and smoothing over tours. A bit of viral marketing can be done cheap and if the stuff is good, it'll catch anyway. A tour van/bus plus hotels and merchandise can be pricey. Setting up a tour really just takes time and lots of phone calls/emails. That can be done by one competent, organised person.

The new model is likely you just hire a PR firm to get you going for the first couple albums.

You as a band:

1. Cobble together a website from a CMS, not that hard.
2. Upload your first demo album onto YouTube and link to it
3. Get your work on iTunes/Amazon/Google Music

Basically you just need to hire a social media expert to pound sand and get you some exposure on some top music blogs or the like. Also maybe to get you first gigs at venues that support more indie themes. After you blow up enough to get your own Twitter/Tumblr/whatever account enough followers you don't need the PR firm anymore. You can run your own Kickstarters to fund tours or network directly with venues.

Be an interesting business idea for Kickstarter. Set up a page saying "Hey we want to pay a show in City X and need Y dollars to book the place." Then use Kickstarter to presell tickets basically. If you don't hit the goal, no one gets charged and you just don't play there. You'd just need a following and some guys to promote you locally.

ha-ha-guy: Ham Sandvich: The only thing I can think of is advertising and smoothing over tours. A bit of viral marketing can be done cheap and if the stuff is good, it'll catch anyway. A tour van/bus plus hotels and merchandise can be pricey. Setting up a tour really just takes time and lots of phone calls/emails. That can be done by one competent, organised person.

The new model is likely you just hire a PR firm to get you going for the first couple albums.

You as a band:

1. Cobble together a website from a CMS, not that hard.
2. Upload your first demo album onto YouTube and link to it
3. Get your work on iTunes/Amazon/Google Music

Basically you just need to hire a social media expert to pound sand and get you some exposure on some top music blogs or the like. Also maybe to get you first gigs at venues that support more indie themes. After you blow up enough to get your own Twitter/Tumblr/whatever account enough followers you don't need the PR firm anymore. You can run your own Kickstarters to fund tours or network directly with venues.

Be an interesting business idea for Kickstarter. Set up a page saying "Hey we want to pay a show in City X and need Y dollars to book the place." Then use Kickstarter to presell tickets basically. If you don't hit the goal, no one gets charged and you just don't play there. You'd just need a following and some guys to promote you locally.


This is a good idea

ha-ha-guy: Ham Sandvich: The only thing I can think of is advertising and smoothing over tours. A bit of viral marketing can be done cheap and if the stuff is good, it'll catch anyway. A tour van/bus plus hotels and merchandise can be pricey. Setting up a tour really just takes time and lots of phone calls/emails. That can be done by one competent, organised person.

The new model is likely you just hire a PR firm to get you going for the first couple albums.

You as a band:

1. Cobble together a website from a CMS, not that hard.
2. Upload your first demo album onto YouTube and link to it
3. Get your work on iTunes/Amazon/Google Music

Basically you just need to hire a social media expert to pound sand and get you some exposure on some top music blogs or the like. Also maybe to get you first gigs at venues that support more indie themes. After you blow up enough to get your own Twitter/Tumblr/whatever account enough followers you don't need the PR firm anymore. You can run your own Kickstarters to fund tours or network directly with venues.

Be an interesting business idea for Kickstarter. Set up a page saying "Hey we want to pay a show in City X and need Y dollars to book the place." Then use Kickstarter to presell tickets basically. If you don't hit the goal, no one gets charged and you just don't play there. You'd just need a following and some guys to promote you locally.

Isn't this pretty much what Amanda Palmer did recently?

One Bad Apple: [ak.picdn.net image 400x224]

Who has that kind of "friend" ?

These guys:

Luckily I don't have any friends nor do I use P2P.

/so lonely...

SNITCHESGETSTITCHES.jpg

Nhojwolfe: I agree to a point , Pay the people who make the music, Not someone who is making money off the back off someone who actually has talent.

How about I buy from the guy who made it possible for me to buy the music? That could be the guy who made it or it could be the guy at the end of a chain of business arrangements. In either case, that's how the guy who made the music agreed that his music be sold. If a musician is willing and able to sell direct, good for him. If he is not, why shouldn't the guys who are willing to help him out get paid?

Aamelrons:
I think you underestimate the amount of research required to find gigs in cities you've never been to, or the amount of effort to reward for viral marketing in most cases.

I won't deny that I was talking out my of ass at the end there.

As much as it boggles my mind, Radio still generates numbers. When the groups I work with promote and plan an event, you can have 3000+ (that actually live in the city) say they are going to attend an event, and end up with 500-800.

While same caliber event with same general line up, not a lot of online marketing but play advertisements on the radio a week before? 2000+ plus. The problem is, unless you are part of an organization that can buy chunks of radio airtime at a cheap discount from clear channel, the prices are really expensive in comparison to everything else.

But, still we agree. The only things left are tours and advertising. Like someone else said, hire a PR-type firm to push marketing, set up tours and skip the label entirely.

Honestly, if I had any money I would start a business right now on that model. There's a whole lot of market share waiting to be taken from the big boys.

thurstonxhowell: That's not what the article says at all. The closest it comes to saying that is here:

In addition to using Google to search forums, blogs and cyberlockers for infringements, Peter and his colleagues also engage in the most controversial anti-piracy work - tracking down file-sharers on P2P networks such as BitTorrent in order to extract cash settlements from them.

Hiring strangers to track you down is a completely different thing from offering bounties to your friends to turn you in.

And the stupid thing is the targets; going after the downloaders. If you were serious about stopping pirates, you'd go after the uploaders and the torrent hosts.

Remember that time you downloaded Backdoor Teenage Sluts 14?


Remembers

Ham Sandvich: Aamelrons:
I think you underestimate the amount of research required to find gigs in cities you've never been to, or the amount of effort to reward for viral marketing in most cases.

I won't deny that I was talking out my of ass at the end there.

As much as it boggles my mind, Radio still generates numbers. When the groups I work with promote and plan an event, you can have 3000+ (that actually live in the city) say they are going to attend an event, and end up with 500-800.

While same caliber event with same general line up, not a lot of online marketing but play advertisements on the radio a week before? 2000+ plus. The problem is, unless you are part of an organization that can buy chunks of radio airtime at a cheap discount from clear channel, the prices are really expensive in comparison to everything else.

But, still we agree. The only things left are tours and advertising. Like someone else said, hire a PR-type firm to push marketing, set up tours and skip the label entirely.

Honestly, if I had any money I would start a business right now on that model. There's a whole lot of market share waiting to be taken from the big boys.

I just can't fathom (and I may be talking out my ass at this point, and would love to be proved false) many *decent* pr firms willing to push Dj's/Musicians at a price that they could afford, and I don't know many that work pro-bono.

Another benefit of agents is they generally have at least one legal person on retainer to make sure that the venues/promoters/ect follow through with their agreement. I'm not sure how it is outside of my surrounding area, but Club Owners/Venue owners/ "event coordinators" are shady as hell and I know a LOT of Dj's, GoGo's, body painters, ect that end up not getting paid for events.

I believe we have the same general idea of what is needed, I just believe it will be a morph into smaller agency firms, and currently here in Texas the max an agent can take is 20%, which I feel if they do their job right is more then fair.

Aamelrons: I just can't fathom (and I may be talking out my ass at this point, and would love to be proved false) many *decent* pr firms willing to push Dj's/Musicians at a price that they could afford, and I don't know many that work pro-bono.

The ones that refuse to work with the little guy had better be the only ones the big boys will work with. Pricing yourself above the rate your intended market can bear is one of the fastest ways to go out of business.

It's always better to make a little less money that you wanted if the alternative is to make none at all.

Smeggy Smurf: Aamelrons: I just can't fathom (and I may be talking out my ass at this point, and would love to be proved false) many *decent* pr firms willing to push Dj's/Musicians at a price that they could afford, and I don't know many that work pro-bono.

The ones that refuse to work with the little guy had better be the only ones the big boys will work with. Pricing yourself above the rate your intended market can bear is one of the fastest ways to go out of business.

It's always better to make a little less money that you wanted if the alternative is to make none at all.

Or they go and do PR for politicians, corporations, local small businesses, product, ect rather than some guys out of their garage.

I'm not saying that PR firms for garage bands will not eventually come about, but I feel the business model would be similar to what an agent would do already "We get a cut of sales for x period of time for risking our time and resources promoting you for little to nothng up front"

Nhojwolfe: There is no need for record companys anymore.
There are too many ways to get music out and the idea of a talentless drone telling us who we should listen to days are nearly over.

I will enjoy watching the record companys disapear one by one.

Yup. I look at my music collection these days in comparison to what I listened to growing up. Back then, you listened to the radio, watched videos on MTV, or took advice from your friends. That was it - that was how you discovered tunes. Even Rolling Stone only covered so many albums per month, and of course you couldn't sample them before dumping $15 on a disc that might suck.

These days, websites automatically suggest 10 other albums that may interest you, based on the one you just downloaded. Of course it's not always accurate (tastes being subjective) but my collection is probably 65% artists I never, ever would have been exposed to in the days of record companies dictating culture. And I think that's farking great. It also bodes well for artists - these days you can actually make a decent living playing shows to people who would have otherwise never heard of you had the old hierarchy of distribution still been in place. You can survive on your own promotion.

In short, the big companies serve very little purpose now, outside of over-saturating us with Kanye (et al) promotion. The world is full of great music that more people can hear, and now is a damn good time to be alive!

Fuggin Bizzy: Nhojwolfe: I agree to a point , Pay the people who make the music, Not someone who is making money off the back off someone who actually has talent.

Record labels provide musicians a means of distribution and marketing. In exchange, they (generally) demand the musician sign away the rights to their music. And yes, the terms are sharkish and yes record labels are notorious bastards...but they do add some value that musicians would find difficult to duplicate on their own.

Plus, I've heard this point made so many times to justify never paying for music at all that I'm always skeptical. If you're going to live shows and buying merchandise, then good on you. (As far as I know, musicians get a larger percentage of those revenues than record sales.) If you never pay anything because f*ck the man, then f*ck off.

I go to many concerts and have a few cd wallets full of cds I have bought straight from the bands themselves. I just think the music industry needs a new face. The reason you pay 15 bucks for a cd is to make some fat cat promoter rich. The band its self gets like 2 cents off the cd. I would like to see bands in the music industry make it off merit and talent. I mean we have "pop stars" that have made it big off some glorified karaoke contest.

dickfreckle: Nhojwolfe: There is no need for record companys anymore.
There are too many ways to get music out and the idea of a talentless drone telling us who we should listen to days are nearly over.

I will enjoy watching the record companys disapear one by one.

Yup. I look at my music collection these days in comparison to what I listened to growing up. Back then, you listened to the radio, watched videos on MTV, or took advice from your friends. That was it - that was how you discovered tunes. Even Rolling Stone only covered so many albums per month, and of course you couldn't sample them before dumping $15 on a disc that might suck.

These days, websites automatically suggest 10 other albums that may interest you, based on the one you just downloaded. Of course it's not always accurate (tastes being subjective) but my collection is probably 65% artists I never, ever would have been exposed to in the days of record companies dictating culture. And I think that's farking great. It also bodes well for artists - these days you can actually make a decent living playing shows to people who would have otherwise never heard of you had the old hierarchy of distribution still been in place. You can survive on your own promotion.

In short, the big companies serve very little purpose now, outside of over-saturating us with Kanye (et al) promotion. The world is full of great music that more people can hear, and now is a damn good time to be alive!

Pandora.com has done more to expose me to different country singers than anything else. A few years ago my exposure to anything other than Nashville and the few big time outlaws was non existent. Cross Canadian Ragweed was as far out there as I had gotten.

Thanks to Pandora my playlist now includes Kyle Park, Bryce Pallister, Jay Teter, Blackberry Smoke and so forth. There are so many Canadians singing Real Country (you can drink to the capital letters) that Nashville is ignoring that it's almost a crime. Hank III was right, the Opry has sinned. fark the Opry.

/Reinstate Hank

They play with toy weapons of war and dance around Winston calling him "Eurasian", traitor, "thoughtcriminal" etc. Winston reflects that within a few years they would not be playing, they would be holding real weapons instead of toys and would turn in their own parents to the thought police if they displayed any signs of unorthodoxy or nonconformity. These children who turned in their own parents as traitors were regularly lauded in the newspapers, the term used to refer to them was "child-hero".

I probably spent more on music is the past year than I did in the previous decade, but the only CD I purchased from an RIAA-affiliated musician was that one by Weird Al.

It's hard to spend $15 on something when you aren't sure you're going to like it at all (and even if you do like it, you might not listen to it enough to make it worth the cost of a CD).

As I get more per dollar spent on inexpensive music downloaded from websites dedicated to that sort of thing, I am less shy about spending more money on it. The music is just as good as the best popular music from the past (and much better than the chart-topping garbage from the last few decades), and there is no reason the sort of musical nostalgia most people feel at some point needs to be limited to heavily commercial songs.

What I listen to now will be what I remember fondly in ten years, and under an internet distribution system, I, not MTV's marketing team, will choose what that will be.

I get fond memories, I get more music, I get to take business away from the RIAA and send more money directly to musicians, and I get to do all of this without fear of a lawsuit, because I'm not "stealing" my music. It's great.

I buy a lot of music - because it's something I'm passionate about. I don't pirate music. I think the agents and record companies take more money away from artists than pirates (no citation available, Alassra speculation only). I have used pandora and before that Yahoo Music to find artists that were off the beaten track versus terrestrial radio. I'm pleased that I can listen to artists who are unknown here in the States and are talented.

I'm always a little happy when they get notice and folks start to be aware of them. Sometimes that never happens, and I'm sad.

That said, I'm looking for a rare accoustic version of "The Prince Song" by Meredith Miller (before she was in the Meredith Miller Band and not the version that was available on her MySpace page. It was featured on CMJ and I can't find it anywhere - no itunes, no pandora, yahoo music, lastfm, jango or otherwise)...

/sometimes I channel my inner Rory Gilmore for music :)

Ponzholio: Remember that time you downloaded Backdoor Teenage Sluts 14?

[upload.wikimedia.org image 474x213]
Remembers

But Pepperidge Farm ain't going to just keep it to itself for free. Maybe you go out and buy some of those nice milano cookies and maybe this whole thing disappears.

Everyone talks about indie music and how the record companies aren't needed and blah, blah, blah - but let me be the first to say; 'You are all full of crap'.

Okay - so I'm not the first; but it's true.

I remember when MP3s were first becoming popular and how it was going to be the end of the RIAA. How many decades ago was that now? No, the truth is, people *like* listening to the same crap as their friend. It doesn't matter that 10 million no-name garage bands and distribute their music to the masses via the internet for mere pennies - nobody wants it. We want the main-stream media crap.

How many amazing artists have we had reach 'rock-star' level from their online distribution network, without the help of an actual label? I've heard of zero. Sure, sure, if you are really into some niche music that nobody listens to - you can name someone I've never heard of - but seriously - where is this utopia of music that was supposed to be VASTLY better? Why isn't everyone talking about it?

The fact that people are still so focused on PIRATING music from artists who are with labels shows exactly why the RIAA isn't going anywhere.