The RT has some value.
The Pro, I'm not so sure of. Seems like they want to make a Laptop replacement, but, the screen is too small.
If they could have had 2 7in screens with no bezel in the middle, it would have been a perfect size for lappy replacements.

If this came out when the Xoom did and came preloaded with a not-too-stripped-down version of word, excel, and ppt coupled with a mail and calendar app that plays nice with Exchange, corporate IT departments might have seen it as the business- friendly alternative to the iPad. They still might on its release, but I don't know how big the market is. Of the people who haven't bought an iPad, surely some would buy an (ostensibly) more customizable Windows device. But a lot of those folks will never be willing to pay more than a few hundred for a tablet.

LasersHurt: The kickstand lets you sit it in perfect upright viewing angle on a table in front of you. I personally see a lot of value in that - it's something notably lacking in my iPad. If it's tightly made, it will feel natural when closed, and very sturdy and tight when open. That's what you'd want in a kickstand.

The kickstand lets you sit it in one viewing angle, and only landscape style. Great if you're watching a movie on a plane, lousy if you're lying in bed, on a couch, or on a park bench. There's value, but it's a limited value.

Furthermore, it's a mechanical moving part. If it's tightly made, it'll feel natural when closed for the first dozen times, and very sturdy and tight when open the first dozen times. Then the catch will start getting worn, and it will sit slightly open and wobbly. By the end of the first year, it'll feel cheap.

so do i white knight W8, or do i just let it do it's own thing over the next year? this must be how iPad fans felt before the launch....

Oh, but that said, I like the cover, and I'm cautiously optimistic about the pen input... Is it a typical capacitive pen input (like drawing with a laggy crayon), or is it actually a high resolution pen, a la Wacom?

gingerjet: I only read up on the device but its appeared to be utterly devoid of what I can do with it except play movies. Just like WebOS and Android for tablets. Although the hardware looks cooler than anything running Android today.

I'm sure next month when I'm hanging out with my Microsoft buddies I'll play around with one and get a better idea (as Microsoft employees seem to be the only ones sporting any mobile device designed for Microsoft OSs).

There will be a version running full Windows 8 which means that it will run Office. That will be appealing to a lot of people.

Theaetetus: LasersHurt: The kickstand lets you sit it in perfect upright viewing angle on a table in front of you. I personally see a lot of value in that - it's something notably lacking in my iPad. If it's tightly made, it will feel natural when closed, and very sturdy and tight when open. That's what you'd want in a kickstand.

The kickstand lets you sit it in one viewing angle, and only landscape style. Great if you're watching a movie on a plane, lousy if you're lying in bed, on a couch, or on a park bench. There's value, but it's a limited value.

Furthermore, it's a mechanical moving part. If it's tightly made, it'll feel natural when closed for the first dozen times, and very sturdy and tight when open the first dozen times. Then the catch will start getting worn, and it will sit slightly open and wobbly. By the end of the first year, it'll feel cheap.

You sure know a lot about the future.

Anyway the whole reason I specified a nice tight hinge is because they made reference to it being well made - and hopefully not subject to that problem. I could be wrong, but I don't think they went out of their way to mention how great the hinge was if it was just as shiatty as every other hinge.

Hinge. Hinge. Now it sounds weird. Hinge.

andrewagill: Surface?

Wasn't that the Big-ass Table?

That was my first thought. Quickly followed by Ass-table. WTF? They're recycling product names, now?

LasersHurt: You sure know a lot about the future.

Well, I am a wizard.

Anyway the whole reason I specified a nice tight hinge is because they made reference to it being well made - and hopefully not subject to that problem. I could be wrong, but I don't think they went out of their way to mention how great the hinge was if it was just as shiatty as every other hinge.

If it's plastic, it'll wear. If it's metal, it'll add some weight and expense and draw accusations of "shiny"... and will still wear, and potentially bend.

Hinge. Hinge. Now it sounds weird. Hinge.

How about "tight hinge". It doesn't even look right. Almost like it's a failed palindrome. Tight hinge. Tighthinge. It's got a thingie in the middle! Teehee!

I don't think this will do all that well.

kg2095: There will be a version running full Windows 8 which means that it will run Office. That will be appealing to a lot of people.

And then they will see that this 10" micro-portable costs $899, and a 13" $499 bargain subnotebook runs the same apps, and buy the cheaper thing with the bigger screen.

jtown: They're recycling product names, now?

Have you seen the New iPad? It came after the iPad 2.

poot_rootbeer: kg2095: There will be a version running full Windows 8 which means that it will run Office. That will be appealing to a lot of people.

And then they will see that this 10" micro-portable costs $899, and a 13" $499 bargain subnotebook runs the same apps, and buy the cheaper thing with the bigger screen.

People want tablets more than they want subnotebooks. You're forgetting that.

Theaetetus: Oh, but that said, I like the cover, and I'm cautiously optimistic about the pen input... Is it a typical capacitive pen input (like drawing with a laggy crayon), or is it actually a high resolution pen, a la Wacom?

From KnowYourMobile:

"Extras

If you thought all of this was cool, there's also built-in support for pen stylus input using what Microsoft refer to as 'digital ink'.

This supports pen input sampled at 600 pixels-per-inch, meaning sensitivity is extremely fine. The screen also features two digitizer sensor arrays, one for your fingers and one for the pen, so it can tell when you're already using the pen and knows not to pick up your finger presses, and vice versa. The pen can be stored on the tablet body via magnetisation."

Theaetetus: Oh, but that said, I like the cover, and I'm cautiously optimistic about the pen input... Is it a typical capacitive pen input (like drawing with a laggy crayon), or is it actually a high resolution pen, a la Wacom?

600DPI Wacom digitizer

Theaetetus: The kickstand lets you sit it in one viewing angle, and only landscape style. Great if you're watching a movie on a plane, lousy if you're lying in bed, on a couch, or on a park bench. There's value, but it's a limited value.

If you're lying in bed or on the couch, close the kickstand. It's not that difficult of a concept.

If the Pro version allows you to install anything onto its hard drive (which could go either way, reading about secure booting), that'd be a huge boon. I'd like a tablet that I could choose what to put on it. You're just locked in for the time being.

flaminio: Theaetetus: The kickstand lets you sit it in one viewing angle, and only landscape style. Great if you're watching a movie on a plane, lousy if you're lying in bed, on a couch, or on a park bench. There's value, but it's a limited value.

If you're lying in bed or on the couch, close the kickstand. It's not that difficult of a concept.

I bet the kickstand thing is fragile. And that keyboard? It's gonna get super grimy. It seems kind of thin, too.

This will be Microsoft's Chromebook, by which I mean the majority of units shipped will be to Microsoft offices where they will have a big bin of them next to the soda machines in case anyone wants to mess around with one on their lunch break.

flaminio: Theaetetus: The kickstand lets you sit it in one viewing angle, and only landscape style. Great if you're watching a movie on a plane, lousy if you're lying in bed, on a couch, or on a park bench. There's value, but it's a limited value.

If you're lying in bed or on the couch, close the kickstand. It's not that difficult of a concept.

If the kickstand is closed, it's not providing any value, by definition. Hence my statement that it has value, but it's a limited value. The concept is easy, but apparently the words are difficult for you.

Marine1: I like the idea, personally. I don't see what the iPad has that this doesn't in the usability department.

Existence? Apps?

True, I have not heard any complaints from owners of this device.

RexTalionis: This supports pen input sampled at 600 pixels-per-inch, meaning sensitivity is extremely fine. The screen also features two digitizer sensor arrays, one for your fingers and one for the pen, so it can tell when you're already using the pen and knows not to pick up your finger presses, and vice versa. The pen can be stored on the tablet body via magnetisation."

That bodes well for tablets in general.

Marine1: poot_rootbeer: kg2095: There will be a version running full Windows 8 which means that it will run Office. That will be appealing to a lot of people.

And then they will see that this 10" micro-portable costs $899, and a 13" $499 bargain subnotebook runs the same apps, and buy the cheaper thing with the bigger screen.

People want tablets more than they want subnotebooks. You're forgetting that.

They want iPads more than they want subnotebooks. This thing is going to have to earn it's way into the market that Apple basically created from nothing.

Some others have said it and I'll repeat it: Microsoft had its chance with the Courier. It was an innovative design that would have posed a challenge to the iPad's control of the tablet market, and the timing was (roughly) right. MS got cold feet and decided instead to get in line behind everyone else with an iPad clone and no way to convince people to not just buy an iPad instead.

This thing has Zune Tablet written all over it.

LouDobbsAwaaaay:
This thing has Zune Tablet written all over it.

Steve Ballmer's been Squirting on the keyboard cover?

kg2095: gingerjet: I only read up on the device but its appeared to be utterly devoid of what I can do with it except play movies. Just like WebOS and Android for tablets. Although the hardware looks cooler than anything running Android today.

I'm sure next month when I'm hanging out with my Microsoft buddies I'll play around with one and get a better idea (as Microsoft employees seem to be the only ones sporting any mobile device designed for Microsoft OSs).

There will be a version running full Windows 8 which means that it will run Office. That will be appealing to a lot of people.

I get that Microsoft sees it that way, but history doesn't really back that up. The "full Windows" tablets have been tried over and over again. In terms of actually creating or editing documents, spreadsheets, or presentations, they're horrible to use. They've found limited use within specific industries (healthcare, etc) running custom software. And those industries have been demanding that makers of their software port those apps to the iPad lately, as there's no good reason to be running "tablet-friendly" software on overpriced hardware that exists to run desktop software in the wrong way.

This really feels like the netbook fad happening all over again. Let's make a device that's very portable (good) but doesn't do any task especially well (bad). Jack of all trades and master of none isn't a particularly good business plan for a new product.

Like netbooks, I would expect a short burst of interest from consumers, until they have the misfortune of using one, and realize that only software designed for a tablet is remotely useable on the thing -- and, at that point, why pay more for a machine with less of that software available than the already established iPad?

Theaetetus: RexTalionis: This supports pen input sampled at 600 pixels-per-inch, meaning sensitivity is extremely fine. The screen also features two digitizer sensor arrays, one for your fingers and one for the pen, so it can tell when you're already using the pen and knows not to pick up your finger presses, and vice versa. The pen can be stored on the tablet body via magnetisation."

That bodes well for tablets in general.

I think it has the potential to eat Wacom's lunch when it comes to the Cintiq 12WX digitizer tablet. The Cintiq 12WX, which is only a digitizer display, costs $999 by itself.

Marine1: I like the idea, personally. I don't see what the iPad has that this doesn't in the usability department.

Well, I can buy an iPad today and use it.
That's pretty useful.

GameSprocket: Marine1: I like the idea, personally. I don't see what the iPad has that this doesn't in the usability department.

Existence? Apps?

True, I have not heard any complaints from owners of this device.

Well, yeah, it's not here yet, which is a hindrance. I'm saying, if it were here today, would I want an iPad over it? Probably not.

Apps will take care of itself. Windows Phone 7 has almost zero marketshare, and even so, it still surpassed 100,000 apps in record-breaking time. Now imagine what would happen in a market space (which will be the mashed PC and tablet markets that Windows 8 will go after) where Microsoft already carries undeniable dominance. It'll right itself quickly. I'm not overly worried about it.

Windows 8 seemed like a lost idea before this tablet was announced. It seems like they actually have an idea of where they're going with this, and if the Xbox proved anything, it's that Microsoft can be very competitive when they actually have a vision they want to play out.

If its $300 with 64gb with fantastic skype intergration it may stand a chance

Theaetetus: jtown: They're recycling product names, now?

Have you seen the New iPad? It came after the iPad 2.

You're out of your element, Donny. The iPad, iPad 2, and The New iPad are all revisions of the same product.

This



and this



are two very different product lines. The only real similarity is the touch-sensitive nature and the fact that they both display stuff. One fits in your bag, the other fits in your conference room.

flaminio: Theaetetus: The kickstand lets you sit it in one viewing angle, and only landscape style. Great if you're watching a movie on a plane, lousy if you're lying in bed, on a couch, or on a park bench. There's value, but it's a limited value.

If you're lying in bed or on the couch, close the kickstand. It's not that difficult of a concept.

whoa, slow down hot shot. Explain.

ourbigdumbmouth: If its $300 with 64gb with fantastic skype intergration it may stand a chance

Of course it'll have Skype Integration. Microsoft owns Skype.

jtown: Theaetetus: jtown: They're recycling product names, now?

Have you seen the New iPad? It came after the iPad 2.

You're out of your element, Donny. The iPad, iPad 2, and The New iPad are all revisions of the same product.

This

[cdn.slashgear.com image 580x373]

and this

[i.i.com.com image 600x398]

are two very different product lines. The only real similarity is the touch-sensitive nature and the fact that they both display stuff. One fits in your bag, the other fits in your conference room.

the above has been redubbed "pixelsense". I don't think enough people knew of it as "Surface" to lead to much confusion.

skullkrusher: jtown: Theaetetus: jtown: They're recycling product names, now?

Have you seen the New iPad? It came after the iPad 2.

You're out of your element, Donny. The iPad, iPad 2, and The New iPad are all revisions of the same product.

This

[cdn.slashgear.com image 580x373]

and this

[i.i.com.com image 600x398]

are two very different product lines. The only real similarity is the touch-sensitive nature and the fact that they both display stuff. One fits in your bag, the other fits in your conference room.

the above has been redubbed "pixelsense". I don't think enough people knew of it as "Surface" to lead to much confusion.

You expected a lack of pedantry on Fark???

RexTalionis: ourbigdumbmouth: If its $300 with 64gb with fantastic skype intergration it may stand a chance

Of course it'll have Skype Integration. Microsoft owns Skype.

it does. They specifically mentioned it.

As much as the fanbois are gonna dump on it without even having played with one or even having read an article written by someone who has tested it, it sounds pretty cool to me.

jtown: skullkrusher: jtown: Theaetetus: jtown: They're recycling product names, now?

Have you seen the New iPad? It came after the iPad 2.

You're out of your element, Donny. The iPad, iPad 2, and The New iPad are all revisions of the same product.

This

[cdn.slashgear.com image 580x373]

and this

[i.i.com.com image 600x398]

are two very different product lines. The only real similarity is the touch-sensitive nature and the fact that they both display stuff. One fits in your bag, the other fits in your conference room.

the above has been redubbed "pixelsense". I don't think enough people knew of it as "Surface" to lead to much confusion.

You expected a lack of pedantry on Fark???

heh oh no no. On the contrary. I come here for the pederasty

Farking Canuck: You can't kill Apple products because the fans will never die. They're zombies.

That's shiat. Zombies and vampires are all the rage, bro. Have you ever heard of Twilight and Zombie Steve Jobs?

No?

Well get the fark outta this country you communist shiathead.

The only thing that shall ever fly over the U S of A is the Apple flag, because we'd all be using dial-up modems and rotary phones if it wasn't for our zombie prince.

RexTalionis: ourbigdumbmouth: If its $300 with 64gb with fantastic skype intergration it may stand a chance

Of course it'll have Skype Integration. Microsoft owns Skype.

It won't be $300. Numbers don't work that way. $400, maybe. $500-$600 is more likely, given that it's available with only 32 and 64 gigs of space. That lines up with Apple's pricing.

Either give it a chance or don't. Personally, I'm a bit tired of the idea that a tablet should have four rows of static icons and one way to connect to a computer. Android tablet makers have tried to compete with the iPad and have failed because they don't have a unified idea. This? This is a unified idea. And I'm glad that we finally have that. I don't want a device market dominated by just Apple. I want options. A lot of you seem perfectly happy with allowing a monopoly on the tablet space and having one idea of computing spoon-fed to you buy a hipster idol from Cupertino. If that's the way you want it, fine, but don't automatically call anything else crap and expect it to be for sale at an unreasonable price point for it to succeed. Microsoft seems to have struck a nice middle ground between tablet and notebook here. I say we give it a shot. If it turns out to be another Zune (excellent hardware with half-hearted promotion), well, then Microsoft will have to eat it again. Until then, I'm optimistic that maybe we've got something other than just another damned iPad.

LouDobbsAwaaaay: Marine1: poot_rootbeer: kg2095: There will be a version running full Windows 8 which means that it will run Office. That will be appealing to a lot of people.

And then they will see that this 10" micro-portable costs $899, and a 13" $499 bargain subnotebook runs the same apps, and buy the cheaper thing with the bigger screen.

People want tablets more than they want subnotebooks. You're forgetting that.

They want iPads more than they want subnotebooks. This thing is going to have to earn it's way into the market that Apple basically created from nothing.

Some others have said it and I'll repeat it: Microsoft had its chance with the Courier. It was an innovative design that would have posed a challenge to the iPad's control of the tablet market, and the timing was (roughly) right. MS got cold feet and decided instead to get in line behind everyone else with an iPad clone and no way to convince people to not just buy an iPad instead.

This thing has Zune Tablet written all over it.

Every time you power up that Xbox360 you are looking at Zune(Metro UI)

skullkrusher: jtown: skullkrusher: jtown: Theaetetus: jtown: They're recycling product names, now?

Have you seen the New iPad? It came after the iPad 2.

You're out of your element, Donny. The iPad, iPad 2, and The New iPad are all revisions of the same product.

This

[cdn.slashgear.com image 580x373]

and this

[i.i.com.com image 600x398]

are two very different product lines. The only real similarity is the touch-sensitive nature and the fact that they both display stuff. One fits in your bag, the other fits in your conference room.

the above has been redubbed "pixelsense". I don't think enough people knew of it as "Surface" to lead to much confusion.

You expected a lack of pedantry on Fark???

heh oh no no. On the contrary. I come here for the pederasty

Marine1: RexTalionis: ourbigdumbmouth: If its $300 with 64gb with fantastic skype intergration it may stand a chance

Of course it'll have Skype Integration. Microsoft owns Skype.

It won't be $300. Numbers don't work that way. $400, maybe. $500-$600 is more likely, given that it's available with only 32 and 64 gigs of space. That lines up with Apple's pricing.

Either give it a chance or don't. Personally, I'm a bit tired of the idea that a tablet should have four rows of static icons and one way to connect to a computer. Android tablet makers have tried to compete with the iPad and have failed because they don't have a unified idea. This? This is a unified idea. And I'm glad that we finally have that. I don't want a device market dominated by just Apple. I want options. A lot of you seem perfectly happy with allowing a monopoly on the tablet space and having one idea of computing spoon-fed to you buy a hipster idol from Cupertino. If that's the way you want it, fine, but don't automatically call anything else crap and expect it to be for sale at an unreasonable price point for it to succeed. Microsoft seems to have struck a nice middle ground between tablet and notebook here. I say we give it a shot. If it turns out to be another Zune (excellent hardware with half-hearted promotion), well, then Microsoft will have to eat it again. Until then, I'm optimistic that maybe we've got something other than just another damned iPad.

I'm with you M1. Going into tomorrow long weekly calls on MSFT so I hope the market agrees, at least for the first 30 minutes of trading or so :)

We'll have to see. I have a kindle fire, a kindle touch, and an iPad 2 in the house. I had a short-lived Kingdom Rush addition and that's about all I've done with the iPad. I consider it my wife's Facebook appliance. I quite like the fire but other than read comics and play games that's about all I do with it. Basically when I have free time I want to read fiction or listen to it with Audible - so I find myself using the regular eink kindle more than the fire and ipad combined. When I'm working I prefer a real computer. What would make me consider this? The ability to do real work (with'programs', not some watered down app) with native outlook, excel, and word over vpn. I have no idea how realistic that is but if they could do it if have to look at it real hard.

I never quite understood why Steve Jobs hated the stylus so much.

You even had people using frozen sausages from Korea in order to doodle on their iPhones.

Nothing more convenient than a letterbox shaped tablet.

Theaetetus: Oh, but that said, I like the cover, and I'm cautiously optimistic about the pen input... Is it a typical capacitive pen input (like drawing with a laggy crayon), or is it actually a high resolution pen, a la Wacom?

I'm hoping that it's going to have a digitizer that can do different pressure levels. If this can be a Cintiq type device, I'm going to be all over it.

Phil Moskowitz: Nothing more convenient than a letterbox shaped tablet.

if you turn it the other way it's shaped like an iPad

This. The interesting thing about MS is that they will go after businesses and not consumers. They know how to get devs to write enterprise apps for windows PCs and windows servers. If they can mobilize their TechEd developers that they can write once and deploy across an enterprise on both desktops, tablets and other mobile devices they may have an interesting play.

jayhawk88: You know they can make the damn thing fold out a full sized Optimus keyboard complete with Transformer noise, but it's going to mean jack shiat if they can't get anyone to develop apps for it. They're going to have to:

1. Convince devs they should even bother to develop their app for more than just iOS and Android
2. Then convince them they should make their apps available for not only Windows 8 Marketplace for PC's but for x86 tablets as well. Granted this may be trivial considering how Windows 8 is being developed, but still
3. THEN convince them they should develop an ARM version as well, which I'm guessing is not so trivial.

You're already a distant third behind iOS and Android, so of course what you're going to do take the total potential customer base for a Windows 8 tablet, and further split them between x86 and ARM, forcing your devs to work twice as hard to sell to the smaller userbase they're already dealing with. Unless you're a big development shop that has a bunch of 20-somethings on staff just twiddling their thumbs, why would you ever give serious consideration to developing for a Windows tablet?

Mad_Radhu: Nem Wan: Putting the keyboard in the Smart Cover knockoff is clever, but so is how Apple uses the Smart Cover for the stand. The kickstand is icky, and how much tactile feedback does Microsoft's Touch Cover give to make it a lot better than typing this way?

Hey now, you get a whole 1.5mm of key travel!

I think he meant the default felt-y one, which I don't believe has any real give at all except that of pushing on slightly squishy felt?

The answer, I would expect, is "little to none" and "holy shiat HOW many keys are you trying to pack in here all the farking F-keys too page up page down WHY NOT SCROLL LOCK."

drjekel_mrhyde: Last time they had two major entrenched foes* in one field Microsoft killed them
/*Not talking WP since Windows mobile was there and not talking Zune since there was no real #2

I wouldnt say the Xbox "killed" the PS2 or Gamecube. It was a very good console, but the PS2 is still probably the most popular console of all time, and the original Xbox cost Microsoft BILLIONS. They spent their way into the market.

As for the most recent generation... well, it depends how you want to define success... i mean the 360 and the PS3 are about neck and neck for sales, the Wii is still ahead of both by about 50%, but who still plays with their Wii? I know mines become a piece of exercise equipment. But thats mostly due to Blizzard and Steam, id probably be saying the same if i had a 360 or PS3, although i am considering getting a PS3 just for Blu-Ray/Streaming...

Finally! iOS and Android users can unite... as they point and laugh at the Windows tablet.