Utterly underwhelming.

/I actually thought that the "Courier" concept was quite intriguing. Of course, Ballmer canceled it.

crypticsatellite: Utterly underwhelming.

/I actually thought that the "Courier" concept was quite intriguing. Of course, Ballmer canceled it.

I thought so too. Also they claim it will be priced competitively which means it will be expensive. Expect the "pro" version to be over $1000

I know Fark tradition is negativity, but I thought it looked really promising. Especially the cover - scored points there.

Other than focusing too much on the keyboards - I mean covers - I mean keyboard covers, there were a couple of things said during the presentation that indicated that even Microsoft doesn't know how to market or sell this device:

"Putting a kickstand in this product breaks seamless lines, but we needed to do it. We couldn't take chances. Take a look at these three hinges you see on the product. They are custom, and they were spec'd to feel and sound like a high end car door."

First of all, a kickstand screams "toy" to me. It's just not the type of thing I'd integrate into a tablet device. While the Smart Cover/Smart Case from Apple (and third-party covers/cases) accomplish the same function, it's optional for the end user, rather than mandatory. As for the second part of that quote, the LAST thing I want a tablet to remind me of is a car door. How is that a selling point?

How are HP, Dell and Asus going to feel about this? Thrilled that Microsoft is joining the ranks of PC OEMs?

"Microsoft introduces the next iPad killer that won't kill the iPad"


Microsoft is about to release the Windows killer. It's called Windows 8.


(Windows 8 will make Vista seem like a dream operating system)

Considering that Android 4.04 is good as a tablet, you can't judge MS's tablet until it's been used and reviewed. I may take a long time for any tablet to be comparable to the iPad, but there are good alternatives out there.

You can't kill Apple products because the fans will never die. They're zombies.

I only read up on the device but its appeared to be utterly devoid of what I can do with it except play movies. Just like WebOS and Android for tablets. Although the hardware looks cooler than anything running Android today.

I'm sure next month when I'm hanging out with my Microsoft buddies I'll play around with one and get a better idea (as Microsoft employees seem to be the only ones sporting any mobile device designed for Microsoft OSs).

gamepolice: Other than focusing too much on the keyboards - I mean covers - I mean keyboard covers, there were a couple of things said during the presentation that indicated that even Microsoft doesn't know how to market or sell this device:

"Putting a kickstand in this product breaks seamless lines, but we needed to do it. We couldn't take chances. Take a look at these three hinges you see on the product. They are custom, and they were spec'd to feel and sound like a high end car door."

First of all, a kickstand screams "toy" to me. It's just not the type of thing I'd integrate into a tablet device. While the Smart Cover/Smart Case from Apple (and third-party covers/cases) accomplish the same function, it's optional for the end user, rather than mandatory. As for the second part of that quote, the LAST thing I want a tablet to remind me of is a car door. How is that a selling point?

The kickstand lets you sit it in perfect upright viewing angle on a table in front of you. I personally see a lot of value in that - it's something notably lacking in my iPad. If it's tightly made, it will feel natural when closed, and very sturdy and tight when open. That's what you'd want in a kickstand.

It sounds kind of like you don't give a ding damn about kickstands, and are using that to doom the product. I think that might be a little unwarranted? Lots of people like kickstands.

gamepolice: the LAST thing I want a tablet to remind me of is a car door. How is that a selling point?

As an owner of a Lexus and an Audi.. I can't tell you exactly what it is, but when you hear the solid thud of a well-built car door shut, you know you're working with quality. As opposed to my buddies Mazda 6, or my friends Toyota Camry -both fine cars.. but when you shut their doors, it just sounds simple and you know those cars aren't made exactly up to luxury specs. Is this ridiculous? Absolutely.. but I swear to the FSM it's 100% true for those of us in the know. You ever shut a really well-made cabinet or fridge..hell a solid hardwood front door? You've probably picked up on the sound as meaning "quality" without even knowing it.

I immediately knew what he meant, and I know I am not alone in this.
-------------------------
Back on to the meat of the topic:

I like the keyboard, that is damn impressive. Two things would stop me from picking up one of these tablets..well, maybe more, let's see how I do here:

1. I am not certain this tablet with W8 is better or worse than a Laptop? Writing papers for work, study stuff..
2. Will MS have a really, really big app store with lots of tablet-specific apps that just natively work on the tablets? (looking at you Android)
3. Will MS be able to convince me that I should go with their tablet should I decide my Acer Android tablet has reached it's end of life?

Putting the keyboard in the Smart Cover knockoff is clever, but so is how Apple uses the Smart Cover for the stand. The kickstand is icky, and how much tactile feedback does Microsoft's Touch Cover give to make it a lot better than typing this way?

symbolset: How are HP, Dell and Asus going to feel about this? Thrilled that Microsoft is joining the ranks of PC OEMs?

I doubt they are going to move to another operating system in protest.

Nem Wan: Putting the keyboard in the Smart Cover knockoff is clever, but so is how Apple uses the Smart Cover for the stand. The kickstand is icky, and how much tactile feedback does Microsoft's Touch Cover give to make it a lot better than typing this way?

Hey now, you get a whole 1.5mm of key travel!

symbolset: How are HP, Dell and Asus going to feel about this? Thrilled that Microsoft is joining the ranks of PC OEMs?

I'd be especially pissed if I were Nokia, who is supposed to be Micorosoft's key OEM for these sorts of things. They even made tablets with kickstands in the past, like the N810.

I think the keyboard cover is cool.

You know they can make the damn thing fold out a full sized Optimus keyboard complete with Transformer noise, but it's going to mean jack shiat if they can't get anyone to develop apps for it. They're going to have to:

1. Convince devs they should even bother to develop their app for more than just iOS and Android
2. Then convince them they should make their apps available for not only Windows 8 Marketplace for PC's but for x86 tablets as well. Granted this may be trivial considering how Windows 8 is being developed, but still
3. THEN convince them they should develop an ARM version as well, which I'm guessing is not so trivial.

You're already a distant third behind iOS and Android, so of course what you're going to do take the total potential customer base for a Windows 8 tablet, and further split them between x86 and ARM, forcing your devs to work twice as hard to sell to the smaller userbase they're already dealing with. Unless you're a big development shop that has a bunch of 20-somethings on staff just twiddling their thumbs, why would you ever give serious consideration to developing for a Windows tablet?

I think the design looks friggin amazing. Beautiful device. Think the integrated kickstand is great the the keyboard cover is slick.

This device needs to be thought of as a tablet-able computer. The x86 version will be able to run full windows, office, etc. This is like that super-lightweight device that many companies could use. It's got pen input, keyboard input, lightweight, etc. Would be a good device to replace all those laptops with.

Still not convinced I need another device yet. When I travel on business (rather frequently), I have my phone and my laptop. I have no need for a tablet (yet). I figure I will get one eventually, but everything I need to do on business trips is handled by a full laptop and phone. Don't want to lug around another device (ipad or otherwise)

I thought it was interesting. Pricing of course is the question. The kickstand and keyboard cover is nice value add that I'm sure Microsoft will be only too happy to pass on to the consumer, even though if they were smart they'd keep it to a minimum to help entice disaffected apple or android users.

NFA: "Microsoft introduces the next iPad killer that won't kill the iPad"


Microsoft is about to release the Windows killer. It's called Windows 8.


(Windows 8 will make Vista seem like a dream operating system)

I'm not looking forward to Windows 8, but that comparison just put me off my dinner

/how depressing

I think it looks promising. The keyboard cover is clever idea.

I want the pro version so much. It is perfect for what I want, tablet browsing and media consumption with the ability to play something like Civ 5 or the upcoming Sim City, you know, real games, not phone or tablet games!

Also, access to all the legacy apps is going to be awesome!

In a few years the RT model will make a lot of sense too, but until then, the Pro looks like the first thing that can replace a laptop and tablet.

not bad, I might pick one up after my nook and laptop dies, so in about 4 years.

jayhawk88: 2. Then convince them they should make their apps available for not only Windows 8 Marketplace for PC's but for x86 tablets as well. Granted this may be trivial considering how Windows 8 is being developed, but still
3. THEN convince them they should develop an ARM version as well, which I'm guessing is not so trivial.

WinRT is their answer to that, it's the only runtime available on the WOA (ARM) machines, and is also on the x86 machines. If you dev for WinRT, it is a code once, run on either (barring anything that may come up that is specific to a particular machine)

Downside is that WinRT apps are touch primary, mouse and KB second, but they will run on ANY Windows 8 machine

A tablet computer that acts like a computer and not an overgrown phone? I'm intrigued. Just wish the Windows 8 Pro version didn't cost so much. I guess it's supposed to be a whole PC replacement, which I don't think I want to commit to just yet. I might look into the Windows RT version if it doesn't come with the severely limited functionality like most tablets.

LasersHurt: The kickstand lets you sit it in perfect upright viewing angle on a table in front of you. I personally see a lot of value in that - it's something notably lacking in my iPad. If it's tightly made, it will feel natural when closed, and very sturdy and tight when open. That's what you'd want in a kickstand.

It sounds kind of like you don't give a ding damn about kickstands, and are using that to doom the product. I think that might be a little unwarranted? Lots of people like kickstands.


After using my HTC EVO 4G for a while... I can say that I did not understand the value of having an integrated kickstand until I used one for a while. I'd buy a device that didn't have one, but I'd really prefer they all did. The kickstand does come in handy.


Nem Wan: Putting the keyboard in the Smart Cover knockoff is clever, but so is how Apple uses the Smart Cover for the stand. The kickstand is icky, and how much tactile feedback does Microsoft's Touch Cover give to make it a lot better than typing this way?

[store.storeimages.cdn-apple.com image 326x326]


I'm not ready to give up my Asus Transformer, but that Touch Cover looks pretty damn awesome actually. The less screen real estate that's taken up by a keyboard the better. I don't care if it has 0 tactile feedback since I'm used to touchscreen keyboards now.

Maybe I'm just too embedded in the Apple "reality distortion field" now, but all of the Windows 8 stuff just screams amateur hour to me. Using the preview builds on a normal computer is infuriating, as everything about the OS seems to make you try to work on one app at a time.

Then they announce an ARM version for tablets, creating a secondary "metro app" interface that makes no sense on desktops, and, instead of making it easy to code an app that runs as metro on tablets and normal on desktops, they make the desktop OS run normal and metro apps, but both in two totally separate environments.

Now they announce a PAIR of iPad killers -- one a normal tablet, the other a full computer in tablet form -- that are only compatible with each other for the tablet "metro" apps.

The whole thing just feels like a half dozen different OS's thrown together in the worst way possible, both for consumers and developers.

/ Fortunately, Win 7 is phenomenal. Unless they completely lose their minds and prevent OEMs from offering "backgrades" to Win 7, it probably won't kill them.

gochuck: I want the pro version so much. It is perfect for what I want, tablet browsing and media consumption with the ability to play something like Civ 5 or the upcoming Sim City, you know, real games, not phone or tablet games!

It's got an Ivy Bridge i5 in it with an HD 4000 APU. You'll be able to fire up steam and play any number of real, PC games on that thing at reasonable performance. If they'd picked AMD's Trinity it would be even better. It looks interesting. I could easily see using it with the tablet UI when out and about but then swapping to the traditional windows desktop when I want to do any real work.

The price will be a key tipping point I think. If someone is willing to drop $1000 on an Ultrabook I don't see why this wouldn't appeal to the very same market. The ARM version is less appealing but who knows.

the_sidewinder: jayhawk88: 2. Then convince them they should make their apps available for not only Windows 8 Marketplace for PC's but for x86 tablets as well. Granted this may be trivial considering how Windows 8 is being developed, but still
3. THEN convince them they should develop an ARM version as well, which I'm guessing is not so trivial.

WinRT is their answer to that, it's the only runtime available on the WOA (ARM) machines, and is also on the x86 machines. If you dev for WinRT, it is a code once, run on either (barring anything that may come up that is specific to a particular machine)

Downside is that WinRT apps are touch primary, mouse and KB second, but they will run on ANY Windows 8 machine

So if you're coding up in (I assume) VB12, you just set the compile to WindowsRT and it works? Do we know yet if it's really that great or more of a "Well, except for..." kind of thing?

From the "kickstand" to the keyboard, it's a DESKTOP "tablet". I'm not impressed.

The most beautiful piece of tech in the world would look hideous clutched in that bald ogre's claws.

It looks alright frankly. At least noone can call it an ipad clone, they are trying to take a different slant on things.

LasersHurt: gamepolice: Other than focusing too much on the keyboards - I mean covers - I mean keyboard covers, there were a couple of things said during the presentation that indicated that even Microsoft doesn't know how to market or sell this device:

"Putting a kickstand in this product breaks seamless lines, but we needed to do it. We couldn't take chances. Take a look at these three hinges you see on the product. They are custom, and they were spec'd to feel and sound like a high end car door."

First of all, a kickstand screams "toy" to me. It's just not the type of thing I'd integrate into a tablet device. While the Smart Cover/Smart Case from Apple (and third-party covers/cases) accomplish the same function, it's optional for the end user, rather than mandatory. As for the second part of that quote, the LAST thing I want a tablet to remind me of is a car door. How is that a selling point?

The kickstand lets you sit it in perfect upright viewing angle on a table in front of you. I personally see a lot of value in that - it's something notably lacking in my iPad. If it's tightly made, it will feel natural when closed, and very sturdy and tight when open. That's what you'd want in a kickstand.

It sounds kind of like you don't give a ding damn about kickstands, and are using that to doom the product. I think that might be a little unwarranted? Lots of people like kickstands.



NTTAWWT

Mad_Radhu: I'd be especially pissed if I were Nokia, who is supposed to be Micorosoft's key OEM for these sorts of things. They even made tablets with kickstands in the past, like the N810.

That's Microsoft's problem isn't it? And googles really (with the possible exception of Samsung). To successfully compete against the iPad you need to show what the OS can really do - and the OEMs aren't delivering. Or screwing up the experiencing so much that it distracts from functionality of the device.

Last time they had two major entrenched foes* in one field Microsoft killed them
/*Not talking WP since Windows mobile was there and not talking Zune since there was no real #2

Surface?

Wasn't that the Big-ass Table?

Microsoft always has the best vaporware. Let's wait until these are in stores, and we know what they're charging for them.

/I said exactly the same thing when MS announced their first "iPad killer" to try to slow sales of the first iPad. You remember how that worked out.

andrewagill: Surface?

Wasn't that the Big-ass Table?

No. It was a big ass-table.

I don't understand this device -- or rather, this line of devices with similar trade dress but substantially dissimilar capabilities -- and I'm a damn computer-nerd. What hope does Microsoft have of convincing the average jerkoff to take the plunge on one of these?

The cover that's also a membrane keyboard is a pretty cool concept, though. If it works via standard Bluetooth and costs under $50, I might get one to use with my iPad.

Meh

jayhawk88: So if you're coding up in (I assume) VB12, you just set the compile to WindowsRT and it works? Do we know yet if it's really that great or more of a "Well, except for..." kind of thing?

So far, it seems to be a "It works great!" but no one has an ARM machine to be able to tell for sure

/I should also point out that WinRT won't make old Forms style apps

It looks really nice. I wasn't interested in Windows 8 tablets before, but I am now.

Should do well with the Star Wars crowd, what with using that Lord Sith to help advertise.

Did they make it cost more than the Ipad? If they didn't, it's a failure. It doesn't need to work any better, but it does need to be expensive. Otherwise you won't get the all-important hipster douchebag sales.

The thing is, if the tablet is running on ARM, then you'll have jack shiat for apps as it won't run any plain vanilla Windows software that isn't specifically built for it. If you get one with x86, then it's going to be bulkier, heavier, and expensive enough that you might as well buy a damned ultrabook instead.

I could stand to hear a little more. cant wait to find out who's actually making this thing though.

/hot

This thing actually looks pretty cool. The price point will be key. I've been rocking a crappy HP laptop for a long time so I'm definitely interested.

jso2897: andrewagill: Surface?

Wasn't that the Big-ass Table?

No. It was a big ass-table.

I knew someone would do this. And yet, I still stand by posting that link.

I like the idea, personally. I don't see what the iPad has that this doesn't in the usability department.