Elzar: First off, not a tea-partier...

However I pay taxes for my cities' library and yet because I live less then 1/4mi outside of the city limits, I must pay $80 per year for a membership (on top of the % paid every year in property tax). Its bullshiat like this + the fact that libraries are becoming less and less relevant in the modern information age that I wouldn't feel bad about more of these libraries going out of business.

One: those rules are that strict for a reason: funding.
Two: I'm guessing you chose to live there
Three: You really can't pretend that you aren't ignorant and then say libraries are worthless and let's get rid of them.

TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: Wangiss: I would the same energy to raise funds to keep the library open, but that's just me.

The problem with closing libraries is that as more of them close, more TFers a word.

Am an!

I went to the library, it was full of bums. Screw using my tax dollars to give bums a place to look at porn on a computer.

We'll dance around it like wild injuns

People who read books (other than the Holy Bible) are just liberal elitists.

I_C_Weener: [3.bp.blogspot.com image 326x317]

You want to save the library. Then name another budget cut. A local budget cut.

NIIIIICE.

property taxes are mostly regressive so I'm almost with the teabaggers on this...

I_C_Weener: [3.bp.blogspot.com image 326x317]

You want to save the library. Then name another budget cut. A local budget cut.

1000 internets to you sir.

unlikely: Weaver95: well...books ARE the harbingers of change...and Tzeench IS one of the Ruinous Powers.

Penemue was the angel who was cast out of heaven for giving mankind the ability to write and put ink to paper. His great sin was wanting to let mankind lift itself out of the morass of stupidity caused by not remembering things from one generation to the next. Literally, he was cast into hell because book larnin is ungodly.

/book of Enoch

That sounds like a heretical text.

susansto-helit: Wangiss: I would the same energy to raise funds to keep the library open, but that's just me.

Enraging people works better than bake sales. Ask anyone on the politics tab.

I'm beginning to believe the politics tab is just a huge troll.

tenpoundsofcheese: hubiestubert: Too bad that they seem to hate Ben Franklin's legacy...

Benjamin Franklin was born on January 17, 1706 in Boston, Massachusetts. Franklin is probably best known in the library community for founding the Library Company of Philadelphia in 1731. It was America's first lending library and can lay claim to being the predecessor of the free public library. For a brief period (Dec. 1733-Mar. 1734) Franklin actually served as the librarian for the Library Company. He also served as its secretary from 1746 to 1757. Franklin considered the Library Company to be the "Mother of all N. American Subscription Libraries ....".

"The only thing more expensive than education is ignorance."
--Benjamin Franklin

"An investment in knowledge always pays the best interest"
--Benjamin Franklin

Not to mention Thomas Jefferson, the well known Commie...

Books constitute capital. A library book lasts as long as a house, for hundreds of years. It is not, then, an article of mere consumption but fairly of capital, and often in the case of professional men, setting out in life, it is their only capital.
--Thomas Jefferson

"If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state ofcivilization, it expects what never was and never will be."
--Thomas Jefferson

Or that OTHER Commie John Adams

There is such seduction in a library of good books that I cannot resist the temptation to luxuriate in reading.
--John Quincy Adams

Liberty cannot be preserved without a general knowledge among the people, who have...a right, an indisputable, unalienable, indefeasible,divine right to that most dreaded and envied kind of knowledge, I mean the characters and conduct of their rulers."
--John Adams

Hard to imagine that Ben liked books so much when so much knowledge was available on the internet back then.

Yeah, but they probably only had really lame 14.4K dial-up in those days. Hell, they'd only just discovered electricity.

I think there may just be a whole lot more to this story than what Mr. Lib blogger has brought forth. That being said I love my local library and support it financially whenever I can.

Wangiss: I would the same energy to raise funds to keep the library open, but that's just me.

Except raising the money without increasing taxes would require them to do it every single year. This way, a single vote secures the budget they need for years to come.

flyinghouse99: I went to the library, it was full of bums. Screw using my tax dollars to give bums a place to look at porn on a computer.

Want to know how I know you've never ever set foot in a library?

Elzar: First off, not a tea-partier...

However I pay taxes for my cities' library and yet because I live less then 1/4mi outside of the city limits, I must pay $80 per year for a membership (on top of the % paid every year in property tax). Its bullshiat like this + the fact that libraries are becoming less and less relevant in the modern information age that I wouldn't feel bad about more of these libraries going out of business.

Job killer.

EnviroDude: Because asking a city or library to reduce expenses by 0.7% is too much to ask for in today's gooberments.

Exactly. Cut another program to fund the library.

Three Crooked Squirrels: The library budget is a very small part of the total budget. If taxes on the total budget have to be raised 0.7% to cover the shortfall, the library can't shave 0.7% from its much smaller budget and cover the same shortfall.

I'm not actually sure what is meant by a "0.7% tax increase." I believe the library is paid for through property taxes here, and property taxes are around 1% of the property's value. An additive increase to 1.7% would be huge, but a multiplicative increase to 1.007% would be much less worrisome. An increase of the city's overall budget by 0.7% could be something else entirely.

I hope the burned books in the video were 50 shades of grey and twilight

EnviroDude: Because asking a city or library to reduce expenses by 0.7% is too much to ask for in today's gooberments.

Yeah, I'm sure the library is just swimming in cash after the 47 other times their budget was cut.

Three Crooked Squirrels: No. I'm not sure why you don't get my point. The library budget is a very small part of the total budget. If taxes on the total budget have to be raised 0.7% to cover the shortfall, the library can't shave 0.7% from its much smaller budget and cover the same shortfall. I don't know how to make myself any clearer. What is your point?



PERCENTAGES DO NOT WORK THAT WAY!!!!!

Tea Party complains because the Imperial Government wants to extort more taxes...

Liberals hold Book Burning Rally in response...

Next week The Media^TM blames Tea Party for burning books...

PROFIT!

People never seem to realize when they are being played by local government. When the budget is short, they don't cut the administrative fat or pork projects because that would affect their friends. They target the most visible public services and then try to shame the people into voting for an increase because of "the children." I haven't studied this case enough to say that is definitely what is going on here, but I wouldn't be surprised.

Pretty funny. I'd like to see more of this kind of thing.

What is meant by 0.7%, exactly? Because that would be anything from a few bucks a year per capita to a few thousand depending whether it's .7% higher than the baseline, or it's n+.7% of property value.

/hot like a burning book

FloydA: TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: Wangiss: I would the same energy to raise funds to keep the library open, but that's just me.

The problem with closing libraries is that as more of them close, more TFers a word.

*snort*

What?

Are we talking about 0.7% tax increase? Or are we talking 0.7% more for taxes?

What is being taxed? I'm assuming property.

Troy MI current tax rate is 1.8%. That means the $180,000 home (median home price for Troy MI) is currently $3240.

A 0.7% increase in total? That means median home will pay $1260 more per year. That's $105 per month. Going from $3240 to $4500 is increasing taxes by over 35%. I'd not vote for that.

Maybe the library should buy fewer books or spend more efficiently. Not buying books is not the same as burning books. Cutting costs where costs can be cut is not burning books.


A 0.7% increase of current tax? 0.7% over $3240 is $22.68 more per year. If that is the case.... I'm fine with that.


Although, I do find their false flag tactics very well played.....

Weaver95: NewportBarGuy: Can we just burn the Teabaggers?

they're soggy and don't burn very well.

As any fire bug will tell you, you just need to apply the proper measure of gasoline.

///Fire bug
///Always wanted to be the little girl in "Fire-starter" :P

Starry Heavens: I'm not actually sure what is meant by a "0.7% tax increase."

It means an additional tax of 0.7% per year of the property's base taxable value, which is usually between 8% and 12% of the assessed property market value.

In other words, about $7 per $10,000 of real market value, or close to $70 a year for an average $100,000 house.

You're homeowners, some of you, and you don't understand how property taxes work???

GAT_00: Two: I'm guessing you chose to live there

Surely even you can acknowledge that everyone paying taxes to support a public resource should have equal access to that resource. No?

The actual story:

City Council decides they don't want to bother with cutting their budget, so they pick one item - the library - and threaten to eliminate it completely unless the Very Important Tax is added.

What other programs did they examine for cuts? None. Just the library. Apparently, every other program in the city of Troy is more important than library funding...

I have a good job, can afford to buy books, have computers, iPad, high speed internet and a laser printer. Why should I pay taxes for a library I will never use?

//sarcasm, don't blow a gasket.

The linked "article" and the site are, well, done by a 14 year old and have the quality you'd expect from that.
It can't really be true, though, right? The book burning thing is a figure of speech, right? The tax increase is opposed by righty right voters, but there's no actual burning. Right? And if there were, it's not widely encouraged by a large faction of the Tea Party, right?
I don't want to look these things up. Don't make me.

TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: Wangiss: I would the same energy to raise funds to keep the library open, but that's just me.

The problem with closing libraries is that as more of them close, more TFers a word.


The whole thing?

Libraries are in fact still vital. As hard as it is to believe, there are a lot of people who don't have Internet access, who don't have computer skills, and/or who can't afford to buy books,

Librarians help people all the time with filling out job applications and government forms on the Internet. You think every poor person can afford a laptop, can go to Starbucks and get a barrista to print out a tax form?

Weaver95: tenpoundsofcheese:
Hard to imagine that Ben liked books so much when so much knowledge was available on the internet back then.

so you hate the concept of a public library?

Isn't it kind of outdated? I mean, having to actually go to a physical location to get information? Funk dat.

theteacher: susansto-helit: Wangiss: I would the same energy to raise funds to keep the library open, but that's just me.

Enraging people works better than bake sales. Ask anyone on the politics tab.

I'm beginning to believe the politics tab is just a huge troll.

Congrats on swallowing the red Farkitol pill.

Nana's Vibrator: The linked "article" and the site are, well, done by a 14 year old and have the quality you'd expect from that.
It can't really be true, though, right? The book burning thing is a figure of speech, right? The tax increase is opposed by righty right voters, but there's no actual burning. Right? And if there were, it's not widely encouraged by a large faction of the Tea Party, right?
I don't want to look these things up. Don't make me.

Are you just farking with us or are you really that dense? Just watch the farking video, it explains it incredibly clearly. Like, INCREDIBLY clearly. To an infantile level of clearness.

Coolfusis: Wangiss: I would the same energy to raise funds to keep the library open, but that's just me.

Except raising the money without increasing taxes would require them to do it every single year. This way, a single vote secures the budget they need for years to come.

They tried that.

algrant33: You're homeowners, some of you, and you don't understand how property taxes work???

The terminology used around here is different. We actually voted on a property tax increase for the library just a few months ago, and it was always stated as "adds 0.2 mills," which made it clear that it was additive, not multiplicative, and was an increase to the property tax specifically.

untaken_name: Weaver95: tenpoundsofcheese:
Hard to imagine that Ben liked books so much when so much knowledge was available on the internet back then.

so you hate the concept of a public library?

Isn't it kind of outdated? I mean, having to actually go to a physical location to get information? Funk dat.

No one knows what you read while you're in the library. Only what you check out.

Embrace evolution. Libraries just help non-computer owners surf for porn.

Three Crooked Squirrels: Wangiss: tThree Crooked Squirrels: Wangiss: To be fair, s/he didn't specify.

S/he mentioned the head librarian reducing expenses by 0.7%. I'm guessing the head librarian only has input into the library budget.

A re you also guessing that money doesn't come from the city budget?

No. I'm not sure why you don't get my point. The library budget is a very small part of the total budget. If taxes on the total budget have to be raised 0.7% to cover the shortfall, the library can't shave 0.7% from its much smaller budget and cover the same shortfall. I don't know how to make myself any clearer. What is your point?

It is absolutely hilarious to me that you cannot understand what I wrote.

All_Farked_Up: untaken_name: Weaver95: tenpoundsofcheese:
Hard to imagine that Ben liked books so much when so much knowledge was available on the internet back then.

so you hate the concept of a public library?

Isn't it kind of outdated? I mean, having to actually go to a physical location to get information? Funk dat.

No one knows what you read while you're in the library. Only what you check out.

Just get 7 Boxxies to hide behind and you'll be fine.

the libarry closed? where will i get my videos now???

GoldSpider: GAT_00: Two: I'm guessing you chose to live there

Surely even you can acknowledge that everyone paying taxes to support a public resource should have equal access to that resource. No?

Where he lives the library is not a public resource. That's my point.

Elzar: First off, not a tea-partier...

However I pay taxes for my cities' library and yet because I live less then 1/4mi outside of the city limits, I must pay $80 per year for a membership (on top of the % paid every year in property tax). Its bullshiat like this + the fact that libraries are becoming less and less relevant in the modern information age that I wouldn't feel bad about more of these libraries going out of business.

I'm really sorry to hear that. The library where I work (pop. ~400,000) doesn't charge anybody for access. We get some funding from the county and some from the city, but we even allow access for statewide users and even out-of-state users. The truth is, our marginal cost for providing services to additional users is so low there's no reason not to.

Mugato: The Tea Party doesn't take kindly to all that book lernin'. You can tell by their signs. 7% tax fer liberries? Intellectual elitist tax n' spender! We shouldn't spend $600bill on new ICBMs even though we no longer have anyone to shoot at? Hippie!

it's called the "washington monument" strategy: the bureaucrats threaten to close a high profile destination, so they can get the spending increases / avoid cuts for the stuff they really want, like luxurious pensions & jobs for buddies

everyone goes nuts about the "washington monument" (or in this case, the library) being closed, instead of focusing on where the other spending is going

the usual dupes fall for it every time...

Just throwing an idea out here: Amazon Wish Lists for libraries.