If Nurse Jackie can kick the pills, then anyone can.

Right, Charlie?

Charlie?

Ironically, the prize is prescription pain killers.

I don't take painkillers or even tylenol when I have headaches but I would rather take those than putting anal suppositories up my ass 4 times a farkin day

Most RX drugs will destroy your liver, guts and mind but that's not bad considering you rely on somebody else to manage your life. It's easy.

They told you they were hard core.

factoryconnection: With people driving less in far safer cars... ones signed to save your ass even if you don't wear a seatbelt, something had to overtake traffic fatalities. We have no culture built up around recreational pill use the way we do with alcohol. We have enough problems with booze after millennia of drinking, but pills are hyper concentrated with just one designed to dramatically affect your body at a time.

People slip up, take the wrong combo in a fit of self-medication when no one's home, and bam that's all she wrote.

Yeah maybe, but I bet a lot of the deaths are people gobbling them to get high.
Obviously. I had to get family dr. a month or so ago for various reasons, and
chatted with the dr.briefly about this. There are very strict measures being put in place (in Ontario anyway) to stop double dipping by people with scrips and other things. I was in the hospital 6 months ago with a strange infection eating a hole in my foot and I had to pester the shiat out of them to give me prescription for painkillers. Even then all I got was 20 T3s.

analgesic pain relievers

This phrase brought to you by the Department Of Redundancy Department.

BronyMedic: kellyclan: When are we going to wise up and ban doctors?

No other country has yet, we could be at the forefront of civilized society for once.

We totally should! There are plenty of chiropractors, naturopaths, and folk healers/witch doctors ready to cure your ails for a price!

/that's not a joke, sadly.
//there is a huge movement right now among these "providers" to gain the same prescribing and treatment privileges as MDs and DOs.

Funny I though most chiropractors were against prescription drugs and the treatment goal was to boost your body's own ability to heal itself. But hey, take the side of the industry that's so focused on either making money or defending itself from lawsuits that they order millions of dollars worth of unnecessary and possibly dangerous tests/scans, pump people full of drugs for things that healthier life choices could alleviate (i.e. insomnia), make up statistics to get people dependent on mostly useless drugs(statins). Don't forget antidepressants/anti-anxiety drugs. Good news is now you're able to leave your house and start talking to people; bad news is you're now sexually disabled even if you stop taking them. Kinda zero-sum there.

Every field has quacks. There are M.Ds who don't know what the fark they are doing and kill or cripple patients just as there are naturopaths who "prescribe" dangerous-but-legal herbs or useless therapies. There are plenty of doctors who go heroic efforts to help people and who don't do this for the money just as there are chiropractors and naturopaths who have a genuine interest in healing people using the least invasive ways possible. For my part, I've had medical treatments that were useless, one that harmed more than it helped, and a couple that really did help me. And if you're talking about it from a cost perspective, given the sky-high cost of modern medical care these days, trying out alternative medicine seems like a hell of a bargain.

killiemary: I don't like the fact that any time I've needed painkillers no doctor's will Rx them. So I have to lay there 3 days after surgery on Motrins all because a bunch of idiots abused the opiates.

Depends on what you look like. If you're a 35 year old soccer mom who put on makeup before surgery, you'll get get an on-demand drip of morphine. If you're a long-haired, goth looking dude, you'll get a couple of over priced Tylenol and be told to go the fark home.

Froman: BronyMedic: kellyclan: When are we going to wise up and ban doctors?

No other country has yet, we could be at the forefront of civilized society for once.

We totally should! There are plenty of chiropractors, naturopaths, and folk healers/witch doctors ready to cure your ails for a price!

/that's not a joke, sadly.
//there is a huge movement right now among these "providers" to gain the same prescribing and treatment privileges as MDs and DOs.

Funny I though most chiropractors were against prescription drugs and the treatment goal was to boost your body's own ability to heal itself. But hey, take the side of the industry that's so focused on either making money or defending itself from lawsuits that they order millions of dollars worth of unnecessary and possibly dangerous tests/scans, pump people full of drugs for things that healthier life choices could alleviate (i.e. insomnia), make up statistics to get people dependent on mostly useless drugs(statins). Don't forget antidepressants/anti-anxiety drugs. Good news is now you're able to leave your house and start talking to people; bad news is you're now sexually disabled even if you stop taking them. Kinda zero-sum there.

Every field has quacks. There are M.Ds who don't know what the fark they are doing and kill or cripple patients just as there are naturopaths who "prescribe" dangerous-but-legal herbs or useless therapies. There are plenty of doctors who go heroic efforts to help people and who don't do this for the money just as there are chiropractors and naturopaths who have a genuine interest in healing people using the least invasive ways possible. For my part, I've had medical treatments that were useless, one that harmed more than it helped, and a couple that really did help me. And if you're talking about it from a cost perspective, given the sky-high cost of modern medical care these days, trying out alternative medicine seems like a hell of a bargain.

tl;dr What do you call the guy who graduates at the bottom of his med school class? Doctor.

Came for :




Leaving disappointed.

/but semi-satisfied.

As we go over many times in gun threads, there is a difference between an accidental death and killing yourself (or someone else) via negligence. Actually getting a legitimate prescription (i.e. you're not intentionally going to several doctors without telling them about your other prescriptions) and following the doctor's directions (i.e. not using the pills recreationally) is actually a pretty low-risk endeavor.

Properly using the medication and still dying of some side effect would be an accident. Washing down your painkillers with Vodka or doubling your dose just 'because it hurts more' is killing yourself through negligence, and deserves about as much sympathy as people that shoot themselves or one of their mates because they were stupidly pointing a loaded gun at them with a finger on the trigger and just "didn't intend to shoot".

Opiates are a biatch, rode the oxy train, it ain't fun. But sometimes it's the system that screws you.

Not so CSB time:

Two ruptured discs (C4/C5, C5/C6). A couple months of painkillers and PT before the MRI was approved to verify the damage. Doc only wanted to do the really bad one (he said doing both at once would mean a long recovery and the other one wasn't causing any issue yet). No big deal, got off the oxy without a hitch.

2nd disc goes out 3 years later. Insurance company refuses another MRI, but has no issue with Pain Management. 6 months of PM and I'm eating oxy like pez. I have a high tolerance anyway, and eating the stuff like candy only made it worse. Started picking up Morphine and Methadone to supplement my pain management supply and cover my growing tolerance/habit.

Finally get approval for the MRI, and by gosh I DID need the surgery. I had to demand the MRI, which would have saved me 6 months of pain and a nasty insurance subsidized habit.

Got the surgery and used up my 2 weeks worth of meds in 3 days, then cold turkey'd it. That was a very miserable two weeks. Going through withdrawal is bad, try doing it with a neckbrace on 24/7

therabbitofcaerbannog: Ironically, the prize is prescription pain killers.

They are also cursed.

Froman: Funny I though most chiropractors were against prescription drugs and the treatment goal was to boost your body's own ability to heal itself.

The most vocal and politically active of Chriopractors believe they are on the same par as Medical Physicians with their ability to diagnose and treat, and prescribe medication.

http://www.chiroaccess.com/News/NUHS- Prepares-Chiropractic-Physicians - for-Limited-Prescription-Powers-In-New -Mexico.aspx?id=0000218

Froman: But hey, take the side of the industry that's so focused on either making money or defending itself from lawsuits that they order millions of dollars worth of unnecessary and possibly dangerous tests/scans

Cover your ass (CYA) Medicine was born from a broken system which arbitrarily punishes legitimately intellgient and medically compitent practicioners during adverse events which could best be described as a chain of failure encorporating both policy, human, engineering, and envrionmental factors, yet allows negligent and uneducated practicioners to pick up their practice, move, and continue being negligent.

There are no more poinant examples of this than the Mark and David Greer trial in Maryland, or the Winkler Nurse Whistleblower trial in Texas. It takes, literally, an act of God to get a medical board to revoke a license for sheer incompetence.

Froman: pump people full of drugs for things that healthier life choices could alleviate (i.e. insomnia), make up statistics to get people dependent on mostly useless drugs(statins). Don't forget antidepressants/anti-anxiety drugs. Good news is now you're able to leave your house and start talking to people; bad news is you're now sexually disabled even if you stop taking them. Kinda zero-sum there.

If we're cherry-picking here, we could fill entire volumes of encylopedias with the nefarious acts of Alternative Medicine and the Anti-vaccination movement. They are the entire reason we have, for example, medical boards and the FDA.

Froman: Every field has quacks.

Yeah. It's just that Altmed has them pouring from the seams.

Froman: And if you're talking about it from a cost perspectivea prospective of wasting money and creating false hope, given the sky-high cost of modern medical care these days, trying out alternative medicine seems like a hell of a bargain.

Fixed that for you. Do you know what people call alternative medicine that works? Medicine.

solarpoweredschittmachine: Leaving disappointed.

/but semi-satisfied.

Just like sex with a hooker.

BronyMedic: kellyclan: When are we going to wise up and ban doctors?

No other country has yet, we could be at the forefront of civilized society for once.

We totally should! There are plenty of chiropractors, naturopaths, and folk healers/witch doctors ready to cure your ails for a price!

/that's not a joke, sadly.
//there is a huge movement right now among these "providers" to gain the same prescribing and treatment privileges as MDs and DOs.

That's awesome that you included DOs.

AbbeySomeone: Most RX drugs will destroy your liver, guts and mind

That's a bold and frankly ridiculous statement.
Most everything will destroy you at the wrong dosage. Damn near all Rx drugs taken as directed will leave you better off than before.

Only needed the oxys for 36 hours after Achilles surgery recently.

I wasnt trying to be a hero, the flesh ripping pain just left after that time. The surgeons assistant was surprised and recommended I dump out the remaining 28 days worth as well as the months worth of vicodins I got.

I nodded dutifully.

Things came in handy 6 months later when my back acted up.

404 page not found: tl;dr What do you call the guy who graduates at the bottom of his med school class? Doctor.

While that may be true, I watched a decent number of people fail out of medical school. Smart people, graduated college with honors.
Wonder how many fail out of naturopathic school? Whatever that even means.

Occam's Disposable Razor: AbbeySomeone: Most RX drugs will destroy your liver, guts and mind

That's a bold and frankly ridiculous statement.
Most everything will destroy you at the wrong dosage. Damn near all Rx drugs taken as directed will leave you better off than before.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^

BronyMedic: radarlove: Number of overdose deaths caused by marijuana in it's over 3,500 years of recorded use:

ZERO

The only flaw in that statement is that Marijuana is, as documented in studies, HORRIBLE as a primary pain control agent in somatic pain

The only flaw in that statement is that my statement made no claims as to the efficacy of marijuana over opiates for pain.

Besides, if you're still in pain after smoking a bowl, smoke a few more and eventually you'll pass out. It ain't gonna kill you, and relief is relief.

Occam's Disposable Razor: While that may be true, I watched a decent number of people fail out of medical school. Smart people, graduated college with honors.

A lot of people fail out of Medical School and residency not because of their grades or intellect, but because they can't keep up with the grueling schedule. I know older doctors who talk about how easy the residents now have it because they have shift limits on how many hours they can work, when in their day 72-hour hospital shifts were common.

I know more than one nurse who dropped from med school and got their RN, and seem happy doing what they do.

BigLuca: BronyMedic: kellyclan: When are we going to wise up and ban doctors?

No other country has yet, we could be at the forefront of civilized society for once.

We totally should! There are plenty of chiropractors, naturopaths, and folk healers/witch doctors ready to cure your ails for a price!

/that's not a joke, sadly.
//there is a huge movement right now among these "providers" to gain the same prescribing and treatment privileges as MDs and DOs.

That's awesome that you included DOs.

DOs deserve props. They've done a LOT to get away from their alternative medicine beginnings and move to being scientific and evidence based medical providers.

There are even a few that post on here.

So if I accidentally hit you head on and we both die, that's 2 accidental deaths. But if I OD, that's one? Makes this number seem larger.

War!

radarlove: Besides, if you're still in pain after smoking a bowl, smoke a few more and eventually you'll pass out. It ain't gonna kill you, and relief is relief.

Pain doesn't work like that. It's more than conscious sensation. Pain causes a whole mess of problems, from endocrine, to renal, to cardiovascular, to GI, to pulmonary, that aren't just solved by going to sleep.

BronyMedic: A lot of people fail out of Medical School and residency not because of their grades or intellect, but because they can't keep up with the grueling schedule. I know older doctors who talk about how easy the residents now have it because they have shift limits on how many hours they can work, when in their day 72-hour hospital shifts were common.

I've got an old attending who swears they worked 127 hour "on" weeks alternating with 96 hour "off" weeks for years at a time during residency. This was about 35-40 years ago.
The mere thought of that makes me appreciate a tough 80 hour week or 30 hour call shift (the current limits for both).

This old doc will be the first one to admit that what they did was exceedingly dangerous and foolish too. A 30 hour shift could still easily be argued to endanger patients.

And fist bump to you, sir. I always see your handle defending medicine from woo and homeopathy in these threads.

vodka: War!

What is it good for?

/Absolutely nothing!

JonnyG: And the best part is that they are able to convince people that it's not intentional.

ordinarysteve: How is that it's 2012 and we haven't invented a pain-killer that isn't an opiate or gets a person high/addicted . We have cracked the human genome, you'd think it'd be possible.

You clearly don't understand the pharmaceutical industry.

it's called Aspirin biatches!!

prescription painkillers are a gateway death.

BronyMedic: DOs deserve props. They've done a LOT to get away from their alternative medicine beginnings and move to being scientific and evidence based medical providers.

There are even a few that post on here.

DO's are solid. I've met tons and wouldn't know the difference aside from the embroidery on their coats, and maybe their preclusion to perform an adjustment for mechanical joint pain. Hell, I know one who is a neurosurgeon. They're evidence based medicine all the way, from what I've seen.

And how much was the excessive tylenol in most of the problems a contributing factor?

Occam's Disposable Razor: I've got an old attending who swears they worked 127 hour "on" weeks alternating with 96 hour "off" weeks for years at a time during residency. This was about 35-40 years ago.
The mere thought of that makes me appreciate a tough 80 hour week or 30 hour call shift (the current limits for both).

This old doc will be the first one to admit that what they did was exceedingly dangerous and foolish too. A 30 hour shift could still easily be argued to endanger patients.

Mid-levels FTW assist!

kidsizedcoffin: And how much was the excessive tylenol in most of the problems a contributing factor?

Acetaminophen-induced hepatotoxicity is usually a slow, ugly, painful death. Death from overdosing on narcotics usually involves respiratory depression and/or aspiration on vomitus, and usually occurs relatively rapidly.

BronyMedic: radarlove: Besides, if you're still in pain after smoking a bowl, smoke a few more and eventually you'll pass out. It ain't gonna kill you, and relief is relief.

Pain doesn't work like that. It's more than conscious sensation. Pain causes a whole mess of problems, from endocrine, to renal, to cardiovascular, to GI, to pulmonary, that aren't just solved by going to sleep.

"How it works" means dickall when you're the one feeling it. Only having it end matters.

Reading these comments is an exercise in frustration.
As we speak, I am healing from a motorcycle accident which broke:
My right clavicle in four different places. (which required surgery - ON MY BIRTHDAY!!!)
about 12 fractured ribs, three of which are flailed, several on either side of my spine.
Two broken toes.
Sprained ankle.

While in the ER, I kept refusing Morphine. When asked why, and being told over and over again that there was no reason to deal with the pain, I would say that I would rather know what motions are safe and what's not, and pain is my only indicator.
I got shipped to a better hospital for observation, and for the transport they insisted that I have some pain killer. I don't know what it was, but I didn't like it. I'm normally NEVER carsick/seasick, but this made me nauseous and I still had the same perceived level of pain as I did prior to the medicine. The ER staff told the EMTs transporting me that I was a 'horse' because I walked into the ER, would transport myself between bed and cots, and refused any pain meds.
I stayed in bed when it seemed appropriate, and got up and did as much activity as they'd let me when they said it was encouraged to move. It hurt like a somebidge, and does right now. I've got prescriptions for piles of Codeine, but I will not ever take one. The day after my clavicle surgery I went for a three mile walk. A week afterward I ran a four mile race and although I came in WAY later than I would have pre-accident, I beat several hundred other race entrants. If I knew I had been beaten in a race by a person with all these injuries, i would vow to change my lifestyle.

Anyhow, through this incident, I've discovered I have a much higher than average pain threshold. I'm also convinced that this threshold is completely determined by my (your) resolve. There's no way I'd consider numbing the body's response to pain. My goal is to come out of this accident stronger than I entered it. Once my Dr says it's OK to run again, or to use the lap lane at the pool, that's going to be my new home.

I'm solidly convinced that those who become addicted to pain meds are weak minded.
Of course, counter to that is the fact that my Dr was pretty much screaming at me asking me why I was NOT taking pain meds.
Do they make me heal faster? No. So why take them?

AlwaysLateRarelyWitty: I'm normally NEVER carsick/seasick, but this made me nauseous and I still had the same perceived level of pain as I did prior to the medicine.

Percocet did exactly that to me. Had my wisdom teeth pulled, and the first couple times I took it, I was fine, after that, it started hitting me like a bad time drinking, so I said screw it and stopped taking it. Painful, but less annoying than dizziness. Don't understand how people get addicted to that feeling, it sucks.

radarlove: BronyMedic: radarlove: Besides, if you're still in pain after smoking a bowl, smoke a few more and eventually you'll pass out. It ain't gonna kill you, and relief is relief.

Pain doesn't work like that. It's more than conscious sensation. Pain causes a whole mess of problems, from endocrine, to renal, to cardiovascular, to GI, to pulmonary, that aren't just solved by going to sleep.

"How it works" means dickall when you're the one feeling it. Only having it end matters.


In due time.

AlwaysLateRarelyWitty: Reading these comments is an exercise in frustration.
As we speak, I am healing from a motorcycle accident which broke:
My right clavicle in four different places. (which required surgery - ON MY BIRTHDAY!!!)
about 12 fractured ribs, three of which are flailed, several on either side of my spine.
Two broken toes.
Sprained ankle.

While in the ER, I kept refusing Morphine. When asked why, and being told over and over again that there was no reason to deal with the pain, I would say that I would rather know what motions are safe and what's not, and pain is my only indicator.
I got shipped to a better hospital for observation, and for the transport they insisted that I have some pain killer. I don't know what it was, but I didn't like it. I'm normally NEVER carsick/seasick, but this made me nauseous and I still had the same perceived level of pain as I did prior to the medicine. The ER staff told the EMTs transporting me that I was a 'horse' because I walked into the ER, would transport myself between bed and cots, and refused any pain meds.
I stayed in bed when it seemed appropriate, and got up and did as much activity as they'd let me when they said it was encouraged to move. It hurt like a somebidge, and does right now. I've got prescriptions for piles of Codeine, but I will not ever take one. The day after my clavicle surgery I went for a three mile walk. A week afterward I ran a four mile race and although I came in WAY later than I would have pre-accident, I beat several hundred other race entrants. If I knew I had been beaten in a race by a person with all these injuries, i would vow to change my lifestyle.

Anyhow, through this incident, I've discovered I have a much higher than average pain threshold. I'm also convinced that this threshold is completely determined by my (your) resolve. There's no way I'd consider numbing the body's response to pain. My goal is to come out of this accident stronger than I entered it. Once my Dr says it's OK to run ...

Yeah? That's nothing. I got my ass shot off in 'Nam, then I sewed it back on myself using my own guts to suture it. Only after it healed did I realize I had sewed it on backwards, so I had to cut it off again with a rusty can opener, and then sew it back on right way down because I kept shiatting up my own back.

Jon iz teh kewl: it's called Aspirin biatches!!

And there gets to be a time when Aspirin doesn't cut it, and in a bid to stay the fark away from opiates, yours truly once poisoned himself with aspirin because it was just too much. "Why am I so effin' dizzy?" "Why do I have this ringing in my ears that won't go away?" "Why do I feel like I'm dying?"

ER

Given prescription, stop taking aspirin, take opiates and not abuse them, feel better next day. Well, I learned that lesson the hard way.

AlwaysLateRarelyWitty: Reading these comments is an exercise in frustration.
As we speak, I am healing from a motorcycle accident which broke:
My right clavicle in four different places. (which required surgery - ON MY BIRTHDAY!!!)
about 12 fractured ribs, three of which are flailed, several on either side of my spine.
Two broken toes.
Sprained ankle.

While in the ER, I kept refusing Morphine. When asked why, and being told over and over again that there was no reason to deal with the pain, I would say that I would rather know what motions are safe and what's not, and pain is my only indicator.
I got shipped to a better hospital for observation, and for the transport they insisted that I have some pain killer. I don't know what it was, but I didn't like it. I'm normally NEVER carsick/seasick, but this made me nauseous and I still had the same perceived level of pain as I did prior to the medicine. The ER staff told the EMTs transporting me that I was a 'horse' because I walked into the ER, would transport myself between bed and cots, and refused any pain meds.
I stayed in bed when it seemed appropriate, and got up and did as much activity as they'd let me when they said it was encouraged to move. It hurt like a somebidge, and does right now. I've got prescriptions for piles of Codeine, but I will not ever take one. The day after my clavicle surgery I went for a three mile walk. A week afterward I ran a four mile race and although I came in WAY later than I would have pre-accident, I beat several hundred other race entrants. If I knew I had been beaten in a race by a person with all these injuries, i would vow to change my lifestyle.

Anyhow, through this incident, I've discovered I have a much higher than average pain threshold. I'm also convinced that this threshold is completely determined by my (your) resolve. There's no way I'd consider numbing the body's response to pain. My goal is to come out of this accident stronger than I entered it. Once my Dr says it's OK to run ...


It's your professionalism that I respect

radarlove: "How it works" means dickall when you're the one feeling it. Only having it end matters.

You really don't know what you're talking about, do you? Sleeping, or for that matter losing consciousness, doesn't "end" pain. I could take you right now, break your femur, and then give you ten milligrams of Versed rapid IV Push, and you'd still be in pain despite the fact you're completely unconscious and I'd be breathing for you with a BVM.

Pain is more than conscious sensation. It's an entire physiological cascade. And when you're talking about the Chronically Ill, like Cancer patients and Sickle Cell patients, controlling their pain is not only a factor in the longevity of their lives after diagnosis, but also the quality of life they live. And in the critically ill or injured patient, their pain being controlled can make a huge difference in their outcome by lowering their metabolic demands, and decreasing the amount of physiologic distress their body's systems are dealing with.

AlwaysLateRarelyWitty: While in the ER, I kept refusing Morphine. When asked why, and being told over and over again that there was no reason to deal with the pain, I would say that I would rather know what motions are safe and what's not, and pain is my only indicator.
I got shipped to a better hospital for observation, and for the transport they insisted that I have some pain killer. I don't know what it was, but I didn't like it. I'm normally NEVER carsick/seasick, but this made me nauseous and I still had the same perceived level of pain as I did prior to the medicine. The ER staff told the EMTs transporting me that I was a 'horse' because I walked into the ER, would transport myself between bed and cots, and refused any pain meds.
I stayed in bed when it seemed appropriate, and got up and did as much activity as they'd let me when they said it was encouraged to move. It hurt like a somebidge, and does right now. I've got prescriptions for piles of Codeine, but I will not ever take one. The day after my clavicle surgery I went for a three mile walk. A week afterward I ran a four mile race and although I came in WAY later than I would have pre-accident, I beat several hundred other race entrants. If I knew I had been beaten in a race by a person with all these injuries, i would vow to change my lifestyle.

Congradulations. You were stupid, suffered, and soldiered through it. Please tell me how this applies to anyone else other than your own decisions?

AlwaysLateRarelyWitty: I'm solidly convinced that those who become addicted to pain meds are weak minded.

And I'm solidly convinced that there is a physiologic and pharmacologic reason behind the reason why they get addicted. One belief is reality. The other is the belief you use to convince yourself you're somehow superior to people who ask for pain control.

AlwaysLateRarelyWitty: Do they make me heal faster? No. So why take them?

That's untrue, and pain is a major limiting factor in post-traumatic injury rehabilitation and mobility, and quality of life, but whatever you use to convince yourself.

RedPhoenix122: Don't understand how people get addicted to that feeling, it sucks.

I've thought the same way about cigarettes and booze, but the rates of smoking and alcoholism seem to indicate there are plenty of folks who absolutely crave those feelings. Not that I don't enjoy a good drink every now and then...

However, I've got a fairly significant family history of opiate abuse, and having taken painkillers on a couple of occasions for legit reasons, I'd be the first one to admit just how lovely they are and how easily I could see myself trying to live indefinitely on that high.

I guess my point is that human physiology isn't always cut and dried, different people get off to different things.

kidsizedcoffin: And how much was the excessive tylenol in most of the problems a contributing factor?

Yeah, I want to know too. They bind up the opiates with so much Acetaminophen that you can kill yourself with that long before you succumb to the 5mg of Codeine in the pills.

Acetaminophen and alcohol: for when you *really* hate your liver.

Molavian -
Although I sound like a 'tough guy', that's not my message. The message, which on re-reading is pretty deeply buried, is that the medical professionals are advocating addictive pain meds. I think - Use your head; the body is an amazing machine. It will heal just as fast without pain meds as it will with, so don't take drugs that have a KNOWN addictive trend.

Plus, maybe I like the pain. It makes me stand out among my weaker peers. :-)

Occam's Disposable Razor:
I guess my point is that human physiology isn't always cut and dried, different people get off to different things.

Well, if you want proof of that, you could always go to Ghastly' FARK profile and look at her artwork.

Erm. Sorry. Back on topic.

bubo_sibiricus: kidsizedcoffin: And how much was the excessive tylenol in most of the problems a contributing factor?

Yeah, I want to know too. They bind up the opiates with so much Acetaminophen that you can kill yourself with that long before you succumb to the 5mg of Codeine in the pills.

Acetaminophen and alcohol: for when you *really* hate your liver.

PRO TIP: Not all narcotic analgesics are formulated with acetaminophen.

BronyMedic: That's untrue, and pain is a major limiting factor in post-traumatic injury rehabilitation and mobility, and quality of life, but whatever you use to convince yourself.

You're talking to someone with such a myopic worldview that he thinks anyone he bested in a four mile race should "vow to change their lifestyle."

None of those people could have also been injured, or elderly, or just starting their training, or keeping pace with their friends, or hungover, or about 1000 other things...

Whatever, those pussies probably pressed their PCA button once or twice and got addicted because they were weak.

Yep, pharmaceutical companies are the nations number one drug dealers, all under the approving eye of the government and police. Don't you feel safe?

404 page not found: Not all narcotic analgesics are formulated with acetaminophen.

Pro Tip: I have never been prescribed any without acetaminophen to be taken by myself, only in the hospital. And when in the hospital I tell them "no morphine, Dilaudid, please, because morphine turns me into a mean old man."

Morphine does the same to my brother. Don't know why in either case. Brain chemistry is a weird thing.