Fade2black: Also, I'm glad somebody posted the quintessential "Stop breaking the law asshole" pic. It always shows the ignorance of people that don't understand that turning on a red light after you stop is legal, and that 90% of all red light cameras are from this legal move.

Really? Maybe (0% of the offenders heard from the internet that all they needed do was claim that they were turning right on the red light. pro tip: there is usually a before/after pic that captures the violator from the rear so they can get a pic of that rear plate.

clowncar on fire: Fade2black: Also, I'm glad somebody posted the quintessential "Stop breaking the law asshole" pic. It always shows the ignorance of people that don't understand that turning on a red light after you stop is legal, and that 90% of all red light cameras are from this legal move.

Really? Maybe 90% of the offenders heard from the internet that all they needed do was claim that they were turning right on the red light. pro tip: there is usually a before/after pic that captures the violator from the rear so they can get a pic of that rear plate.

Tellingthem: If you are not careful it is easy to get stuck in the middle of that intersection when turning left.

lack of warmth: Ha ha! I live in a state that outlawed these cameras. They also don't use unmarked police cars for traffic stops. State troopers do know how to set bear traps, but I haven't done anything stupid enough to get pulled.

Euphoria: yet another state that won't get it's own star...

SuwonROKs: I have no problem with this. I grew up there and have managed to make it through that intersection hundreds of times and never got a ticket. Why? I stop when the darling light is red. I'm in Korea now where traffic lights seem to be more of a suggestion. Outside my apartment probably half the cars and 90% of the buses and taxis run the red lights. I've nearly been hit on almost a daily basis and it pisses me off to no end. I've come to a point where I'd actually like to see the local incompetent police actually enforce driving laws.

Speed cameras are a different story, though.

Yes you grew up here and know what to expect. then you also know that since this is the main exit area from the airport lots of tourists come through there who did not. Also I've seen many people start turning when the light was green following the car in front only to stop in the intersection while still green. (it is a large intersection for those who haven't driven it). So it isn't like some people are just blowing through a red light because they want too. Not to excuse all the fault of the driver here but it can be vary easy to get stuck there.

destrip: AbbeySomeone: NFA: The truly sad part is that as much as 90% of the money collected from such traps goes to the contractors who install and mantain the equipment. It's a virtual goldmine for this assholes. Some states sit back and accept pennies on the dollar because to them it's free and effortless.


It's much like telemarketers who collect huge amounts of money for fire departments, schools, etc. Then pay the organization a few cents of every dollar collected. Only a moran gives to these telemarketers.

They don't even get half. Also, when I mailed a check for mine it went out of state and the company that made the cameras is overseas.

Why did you just mail them a check? If you were clearly in the right and the camera ticketed you for a legal right-on-red, why not fight it? More fought tickets = more work for the courts and the cops that review the photos.

It costs time and money to dispute these and it is set up that way. A plea for a court date may or 'make it' in time through the mail. If not, a warrant for failing to appear can be issued. Mine was only 124.00.

Tellingthem: it is easy to get stuck in the middle of that intersection when turning left

don't know about elsewhere but in Virginia it is legal for you to enter the intersection when the light is green and make a left-hand turn on red. You are legally obliged to clear the intersection and provided you've entered before it turned yellow, you're in the clear.

ultraholland: Tellingthem: it is easy to get stuck in the middle of that intersection when turning left

don't know about elsewhere but in Virginia it is legal for you to enter the intersection when the light is green and make a left-hand turn on red. You are legally obliged to clear the intersection and provided you've entered before it turned yellow, you're in the clear.

The problem is clearing the intersection. This is a massive turn lane it stretches for blocks. So if you are in the turn lane (especially the right hand one of the two) you can be going through the light on green but traffic is backing up on grape itself. So you can be stuck in the intersection with no where to go. Happens mostly around rush hour or with a train. If you check out the google map the turn lanes start at laurel go to grape street.

View Larger Map

AbbeySomeone: destrip: AbbeySomeone: NFA: The truly sad part is that as much as 90% of the money collected from such traps goes to the contractors who install and mantain the equipment. It's a virtual goldmine for this assholes. Some states sit back and accept pennies on the dollar because to them it's free and effortless.


It's much like telemarketers who collect huge amounts of money for fire departments, schools, etc. Then pay the organization a few cents of every dollar collected. Only a moran gives to these telemarketers.

They don't even get half. Also, when I mailed a check for mine it went out of state and the company that made the cameras is overseas.

Why did you just mail them a check? If you were clearly in the right and the camera ticketed you for a legal right-on-red, why not fight it? More fought tickets = more work for the courts and the cops that review the photos.

It costs time and money to dispute these and it is set up that way. A plea for a court date may or 'make it' in time through the mail. If not, a warrant for failing to appear can be issued. Mine was only 124.00.

This is perhaps what I hate most about the American legal system. Victims must suffer. There is a recent article about a lady who sued a little league player for accidentally nailing her with a poorly thrown ball; now, even though many parties involved consider the case frivolous, if the boy's father wishes to avoid an outrageous fine, he must pay an outrageous fine in court costs, an attorney, etc.

ultraholland: Tellingthem: it is easy to get stuck in the middle of that intersection when turning left

don't know about elsewhere but in Virginia it is legal for you to enter the intersection when the light is green and make a left-hand turn on red. You are legally obliged to clear the intersection and provided you've entered before it turned yellow, you're in the clear.

I have been curious why left turns on red are illegal. There have been many times when I have waited for around a minute for a stoplight to turn green while there is minimal traffic.

Skywolf Philosopher: I have been curious why left turns on red are illegal. There have been many times when I have waited for around a minute for a stoplight to turn green while there is minimal traffic.

On second thought, I do understand the reasoning, yet it seems to falter in rural areas.

This intersection is unique in that it requires a few blocks of planning to make that left turn successfully It has exceptionally long left turn lanes that you usually have to get into half a mile before the turn, while the road is going around a curve. Then there are train tracks just past the turn, crossing the street you turn onto. If there is a train coming, traffic halts and you are farked unless you can see through several blocks to see that traffic is about to come to an unexpected standstill.

I never got a ticket there, but I've seen others get them. It's the only red light camera where I really feel the ticket recipients are innocent victims. Someone driving through for the first time would have little hope if traffic is heavy and a train is coming.

I have no problem with cities generating income from red light cameras, speeding tickets, and such -- provided that they aren't done with trickery (such as reducing the yellow time to below the norm, having a sudden major speed reduction with no warning, et cet.).

X dollars of the city budget have to come from somewhere. That which comes from people making illegal errors and paying the fines therefor offsets the need to impose taxes on people who aren't doing anything wrong.

Meanwhile, I didn't RTFA, so what percentage of these fines are being levied against beaners with Baja plates, from whom the city can never collect across the border?

So if the intersection is so bad, why don't they fix it instead of making it a revenue generator? Get the Japanese road crew that had emergency-route roads completely rebuilt within days of the tsunami. Keep the unions out of it, and just rebuild the entire intersection in a week.

There, fixed.

Tellingthem: ultraholland: Tellingthem: it is easy to get stuck in the middle of that intersection when turning left

don't know about elsewhere but in Virginia it is legal for you to enter the intersection when the light is green and make a left-hand turn on red. You are legally obliged to clear the intersection and provided you've entered before it turned yellow, you're in the clear.

The problem is clearing the intersection. This is a massive turn lane it stretches for blocks. So if you are in the turn lane (especially the right hand one of the two) you can be going through the light on green but traffic is backing up on grape itself. So you can be stuck in the intersection with no where to go. Happens mostly around rush hour or with a train. If you check out the google map the turn lanes start at laurel go to grape street.

View Larger Map

Something to do with crossing the path of on coming traffic. While most of us have the intwelligence to wait it out, there are those too stupid and will challenge oncoming steel..

$480 for a red light camera?!

GORDON: So if the intersection is so bad, why don't they fix it instead of making it a revenue generator? Get the Japanese road crew that had emergency-route roads completely rebuilt within days of the tsunami. Keep the unions out of it, and just rebuild the entire intersection in a week.

There, fixed.


Have an address where we US citizens can make a donation to cover the cost of that well thought out plan?

wonder how they ticket rented cars drivers. that must be a PITA for the rental centers if they have to shuffle lots of paperwork and don't see a dime for it.

I used to live in SD (not in downtown proper though). The city is rife with red light cameras; the area around Mission Valley Shopping Center also had a fair number. The best part was when one misfired at night and temporarily blinded you.

I will say that they did their job, a little too well though. People were so paranoid about going through at even the first hint of a yellow light that they would slam on their brakes almost causing accidents. It's definitely a different story where I live now (Central NY), where people run red lights (even during winter blizzards) like it's their job*.

P.S Although, with this economy, it's unlikely that these people have jobs :(.

Durendal: Is that stupid tag for people running red lights and idling in the middle of the intersection, Submittard? I have no problem with those idiots ponying up $480. Yeah, the city's milking it, but they're milking deserving assholes, so I'm okay with this. Don't blow the red light and make sure you can actually get through the damned intersection before entering it so you don't clog it up for everyone else.

You didn't read the article, did you? The intersection in question is ticketing people who get stuck in it, primarily because it's poorly designed. Since I live here, I know that it's a left-hand turn and that the city has timed the lights poorly. Because one can't necessarily see around the big-ass cars ahead to see that the road past the intersection is clogged and is going to result in traffic getting stuck in it, it's easy to get part way thru the turn and end up stalled in the intersection. If the lights were timed properly, the traffic would be allowed to clear before the camera intersection light turned, but nooooo. The reason is that San Diego wants money, not safety, traffic flow, or anything else.

How to Stop Red Light Running:

Try engineering (light timing, lane arrangements) and awareness (remove visual obstructions, add signage, etc) fixes first. You know, stuff that can actually reduce red light incursions. If that fails, then pursue an enforcement approach with adequate signage.

Anything else on pure greed, laziness and incompetence.

KrispyKritter: wonder how they ticket rented cars drivers. that must be a PITA for the rental centers if they have to shuffle lots of paperwork and don't see a dime for it.

They send the bill to the rental place, who forward it to the driver. I have the fast pass device on my car for going through the tolls without stopping, but out of habit I went through that lane with a rental car and got the bill before the week was done.

jjorsett: You didn't read the article, did you? The intersection in question is ticketing people who get stuck in it, primarily because it's poorly designed. Since I live here, I know that it's a left-hand turn and that the city has timed the lights poorly. Because one can't necessarily see around the big-ass cars ahead to see that the road past the intersection is clogged and is going to result in traffic getting stuck in it, it's easy to get part way thru the turn and end up stalled in the intersection. If the lights were timed properly, the traffic would be allowed to clear before the camera intersection light turned, but nooooo. The reason is that San Diego wants money, not safety, traffic flow, or anything else.


Ah. We have a couple of bad intersections like that here in Chicago, the worst (not just my opinion; it's statistically validated as the worst) being a 6-corner at Fullerton, Damen, and Elston Avenues. We have plenty of six-corner intersections, but this one is bad by a combination of several factors. It has a large number of tractor-trailers and other good-sized trucks. Elston is not at or even near 45 degrees, so some of the turning options are pretty damn sharp. The lanes are too narrow and there is not room for proper left-turn lanes.

The city is finally taking care of it, though, and will dog-leg Elston Avenue to make a couple of new four-way intersections. The actual digging hasn't started, though (need to condemn the property where the dog-leg will be, complete the environmental impact statements, et cet.)

I got a red light ticket some 25 years ago when I lived in Germany. Paid my 300DM fine and haven't run a red light since, which means I'm less likely to t-bone your family's car while you're passing through the intersection on a green light.

Quit whining if have to pay up after breaking the law.

If only there were a way to avoid having to pay the $480!!! Please assist all these helpless folks try and find a way to drive through the camera intersections that take pictures of people who run the red light and NOT have their picture taken!

If only....

Funny that they don't put any of the revenue generated by the cameras toward creating a better intersection with a grade separation or two, particularly aroudn the train tracks. $2 million would fix a lot of traffic problems... but that wouldn't keep the funds rolling in to be spent on low priority cash cows, while you can hold on to this clusterfark a few more years for when you go to the voters to get new taxes and bonds approved.

It's no different than the usual "cut education and emergency services to scare voters into funding your pork" that every local government does now.

It boggles my mind that some people still think this is a safety issue.I was always taught that if it was too dangerous to stop when the light was yellow , finish going through it. A much better alternative than slamming on your brakes.

Tellingthem: SuwonROKs: I have no problem with this. I grew up there and have managed to make it through that intersection hundreds of times and never got a ticket. Why? I stop when the darling light is red. I'm in Korea now where traffic lights seem to be more of a suggestion. Outside my apartment probably half the cars and 90% of the buses and taxis run the red lights. I've nearly been hit on almost a daily basis and it pisses me off to no end. I've come to a point where I'd actually like to see the local incompetent police actually enforce driving laws.

Speed cameras are a different story, though.

Yes you grew up here and know what to expect. then you also know that since this is the main exit area from the airport lots of tourists come through there who did not. Also I've seen many people start turning when the light was green following the car in front only to stop in the intersection while still green. (it is a large intersection for those who haven't driven it). So it isn't like some people are just blowing through a red light because they want too. Not to excuse all the fault of the driver here but it can be vary easy to get stuck there.

I understand that but I still support the cameras. Any driver on the road should look at the lane they're turning into for any danger before continuing the turn. It isn't difficult see if traffic is backed up. So they should stop at the limit line to avoid blocking the lane when the light turns. It's simply common courtesy.

ph0rk: Don't red light cameras result in more crashes, rather than less?

I've heard that, too. More crashes because people will hit the brakes on a yellow light and then get rear ended.
Simple solution: drive the speed limit, keep appropriate distance and don't talk on the phone/text/eat/apply make-up etc etc
There. Solved.

HopScotchNSoda: The city is finally taking care of it, though, and will dog-leg Elston Avenue to make a couple of new four-way intersections. The actual digging hasn't started, though (need to condemn the property where the dog-leg will be, complete the environmental impact statements, et cet.)

What's sad is that 3+ street intersections are the best possible places to use roundabouts. The extra intersections immediately after each other and extra land and money wasted on more roads will probably still be a clusterfark compared to a huge roundabout, even given the general cluelessness of Americans toward them. Oh well.

We live in a ex-urban town in CT that is a pass-thru between I95 and I84. There is a red light at the foot of our block that records no less than one accident a day, often times more.

Because of my daily routine, I go thru this intersection at least 6 times a day and every day shiat-bags run the light at well above the posted 40MPH. I have aided at too many accidents.

Although there is no reason for excessive police action for most instances, I fully support red-light cameras. If you don't care about causing an accident, you deserve to die, or at least pay dearly; the poor bastard you hit does not deserve to suffer for your anti-social behavior.

/this is so far down the thread, no one will read it
//slashies

SurelyShirley: ph0rk: Don't red light cameras result in more crashes, rather than less?

I've heard that, too. More crashes because people will hit the brakes on a yellow light and then get rear ended.
Simple solution: drive the speed limit, keep appropriate distance and don't talk on the phone/text/eat/apply make-up etc etc
There. Solved.

Never flown into SD, but I have taken that intersection off of the freeway before. It's so slow and massively congested that it's doubtful anyone is playing the slam-brakes game at the white line, as it's hard to get above 20 mph and everyone's slamming their brakes all over even during green lights. It's just a wretched PITA to get through, but a great way to run up a high taxi bill.

I for one think these cameras are dumb

oldernell: dumass

Durendal: Is that stupid tag for people running red lights and idling in the middle of the intersection, Submittard? I have no problem with those idiots ponying up $480. Yeah, the city's milking it, but they're milking deserving assholes, so I'm okay with this. Don't blow the red light and make sure you can actually get through the damned intersection before entering it so you don't clog it up for everyone else.

Translation: I'm aware of only a small part of the entire story behind red-light cameras, but that's not going to stop me from telling you aaaaaaallllll about it.

foxyshadis: HopScotchNSoda: The city is finally taking care of it, though, and will dog-leg Elston Avenue to make a couple of new four-way intersections. The actual digging hasn't started, though (need to condemn the property where the dog-leg will be, complete the environmental impact statements, et cet.)

What's sad is that 3+ street intersections are the best possible places to use roundabouts. The extra intersections immediately after each other and extra land and money wasted on more roads will probably still be a clusterfark compared to a huge roundabout, even given the general cluelessness of Americans toward them. Oh well.

We use them some places in the U.S. There's even one fairly large one in the northwest suburbs (Des Plaines, maybe?). There's another big one on the east side of Tulsa I was surprised to find myself in. I agree that modern roundabouts can be quite good. Unfortunately, most of this country's experience with them was in New England (i.e., the part of the country that has virtually no proper street grids) where they were of the old style traffic circles and too small. I learned to drive in New Hampshire and there were plenty of horrible circles (the Milford Oval and the East Derry Circle, I'm looking at you) and several were replaced with adjusted street geometry and standard intersections (Ross' Corner in Derry, for example).

Roundabouts however, even modern ones, are (like anything) not panaceas and can't work everywhere. The intersection I referred to above, for example, would require demolishing and relocating a lot of industrial and commercial property to accommodative the trucks and, ironically, reduce the number of trucks going through it. Plus, that intersection has two of the ends on inclines (Damen north of the intersection and Fullerton east of the intersection) to meet up with their respective bridges across the North Branch. The other two ends of Damen and Fullerton meanwhile have a bit of a decline, albeit not as much nor quite as close, to clear the viaducts under the Kennedy Expressway.

gingerjet: Heading out their for a job interview in a week. Mental note.

You found an open job in downtown San Diego? You must be a farking sorcerer.


Also:
Durendal: Is that stupid tag for people running red lights and idling in the middle of the intersection, Submittard? I have no problem with those idiots ponying up $480. Yeah, the city's milking it, but they're milking deserving assholes, so I'm okay with this. Don't blow the red light and make sure you can actually get through the damned intersection before entering it so you don't clog it up for everyone else.

This. I work a few blocks away from this intersection. People who know California traffic regs don't have a problem, it's just tourists from flyover states.

What Plants Crave: greed, laziness and incompetence

But greed, laziness and incompetence tend to be more profitable

Link

get one of these and fk a red light camera...

Preventing gridlock is just as good a reason for cameras as preventing accidents.

oldernell: Reminds me of a guy I knew who's dumass teen age daughter rear ended a guy who had stopped at a yellow light. She said "Well, he could have made it."

Damn those people piss me off! (at a complete stop and the light is still yellow) I sit there for the whole damn cycle trying to will them junk cancer. Same goes for people that don't enter the intersection because they are waiting for the green arrow before they make a left.

having been there just a couple hours ago...
the reason there are no right turn violations is the fact you'd be in the bay so who cares
had two tourist jwalk in front of me, not in my turn lane so I couldn't hit them

two weeks without the mother in law - I was calm and cool after dropping her off at lindberg

There is no such thing as safety from dumbasses, even if you stay home. Subby has demonstrated this.

This traffic light crap is a microcosm of this area. San Diego is a right-wing ex-military bedroom community where good old boys duke it out with neoconservative new-agers to take everyone else's money. It's the biggest small town I've ever lived in, and I'm looking forward to moving away this fall before the Soledad pluton cracks down the center and the whole damn coast jumps 15 feet northwest in two seconds. And while we're at it - sunshine dollars can't make up for San Diego's perennial 40% undercompensation for skilled careers. But hey, at least I ain't bitter or nothin.

It's a major intersection to get away from the airport. There is no problem with speeding there, because traffic is ALWAYS backed up there.

Straight-up money grab from the city feasting on people who are unfamiliar with that intersection. What's worse is that they have been doing a ton of construction around there over the past few months, closing lanes on Grape. CHA-CHING for the city again.

Stephen_Falken: This traffic light crap is a microcosm of this area. San Diego is a right-wing ex-military bedroom community where good old boys duke it out with neoconservative new-agers to take everyone else's money. It's the biggest small town I've ever lived in, and I'm looking forward to moving away this fall before the Soledad pluton cracks down the center and the whole damn coast jumps 15 feet northwest in two seconds. And while we're at it - sunshine dollars can't make up for San Diego's perennial 40% undercompensation for skilled careers. But hey, at least I ain't bitter or nothin.

I think it's a little bit more diverse than that. We'll probably elect a republican for mayor. On the other hand, he's openly gay. Lol.

Not a problem for me since I'll just be walking down the streets jackin it.

To the people in general who run red lights... I give a big F-U. That said, anyone who gets a ticket from this particular intersection is probably more than likely a hapless victim of the way that the corner and airport traffic coming through it work. I have gone through that intersection countless times with no issue, but I've also seen plenty of times where traffic is backed up way down the boulevard and similar.

Basically what I'm saying is that our fine city of San Diego is after nothing more than money grabbing from this traffic camera. Going through that intersection you're naturally going too slowly to possibly ever actually get in an accident unless you actually tried to do so.

Tellingthem: SuwonROKs: I have no problem with this. I grew up there and have managed to make it through that intersection hundreds of times and never got a ticket. Why? I stop when the darling light is red. I'm in Korea now where traffic lights seem to be more of a suggestion. Outside my apartment probably half the cars and 90% of the buses and taxis run the red lights. I've nearly been hit on almost a daily basis and it pisses me off to no end. I've come to a point where I'd actually like to see the local incompetent police actually enforce driving laws.

Speed cameras are a different story, though.

Yes you grew up here and know what to expect. then you also know that since this is the main exit area from the airport lots of tourists come through there who did not. Also I've seen many people start turning when the light was green following the car in front only to stop in the intersection while still green. (it is a large intersection for those who haven't driven it). So it isn't like some people are just blowing through a red light because they want too. Not to excuse all the fault of the driver here but it can be vary easy to get stuck there.

Actually, as long as you enter the intersection when the light is green, its legal to be in the intersection when the light turns against you.

Begoggle: If 100% of the fines went to charity, I wonder what would happen.

Yeah if the money didnt go to a company or the police but to schools and road improvement I wonder what would happen as well