Magorn: Devolving_Spud: I have Christian parents, but I am not even part Christian. But if I had Jewish ancestors, I would somehow be all or part Jewish? WTF?

if your momma was Jewish, YOU are Jewish, and she was Jewish if Her momma was. It's basically a matrelineal thing, and because it's both a religion and tribal identity, conversion/apostasy doesn't get you out of it.

works the same way if your father was Jewish.

chuckufarlie: [acardattack.files.wordpress.com image 345x318]

Are you people really so ignorant about Jewish people?

I am not Jewish but I live on the Upper West Side of Manhattan so that basically makes me an honorary rabbi. What is your question, my boychick?

Don't we hate in others what we most dislike about ourselves?

Oh man, double bonus points to that comments section xD "The Jews run everything, even Jobbik"

Paging Tatsuma... Tatsuma please report to thread #7188189. Thank you.

/The red zone is for loading and unloading only.
//There is no stopping in the white zone.

Devolving_Spud: I have Christian parents, but I am not even part Christian. But if I had Jewish ancestors, I would somehow be all or part Jewish? WTF?

You know that Jewish is both a religion and an ethnicity, right?

skullkrusher: chuckufarlie: [acardattack.files.wordpress.com image 345x318]

Are you people really so ignorant about Jewish people?

I am not Jewish but I live on the Upper West Side of Manhattan so that basically makes me an honorary rabbi. What is your question, my boychick?

my only question is how some of the idiots on fark can be so ignorant.

chuckufarlie: [acardattack.files.wordpress.com image 345x318]

Are you people really so ignorant about Jewish people?

They are a mythical people, like leprechauns.

Where's the "sad" tag?

When in Budapest, visit the Shoes on the Danube.


In 1944 the Nazis formally took over running Hungary through their Arrow Cross surrogates. The Arrow Cross promptly rounded up Jews and stuffed them into trains bound for the camps. When the trains were full, the Arrow Cross started taking the Jews down to the river. They lined them up, made them take off their shoes, shot them in the back of the head and dumped the bodies in the river. Today there are bronze shoes permanently attached to the waterfront.

Jobbik are the heirs of the Arrow Cross.

TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: monoski: Devolving_Spud: I have Christian parents, but I am not even part Christian. But if I had Jewish ancestors, I would somehow be all or part Jewish? WTF?

Jewish is actually more than a religion.

It's actually debated in the more modern parts Jewish community, if "Jewish" is an ethnicity anymore. Sure, traditionally that's the case, but then it means that some Jews are less Jews than others, and that's problematic.

False. Old Testament-ly, they're just as Jewish as anyone else ("as Jewish as Tevye," one might say) - the actual wording of the text is that they need to be ensured of a place in the community, "for remember that you were once strangers in a land that was not yours."

And then there's a collection of philosophical explanations and extrapolations - "a convert was always 'Jewish', they just didn't realize it until deciding to convert", "a convert is considered to have no family history other than 'being a Jew'", "one is not allowed to bring up a convert's pre-Jewish history"...

And there is no such thing (religiously) as "half-Jewish", unless you're describing your family history. It's a binary state - you is, or you ain't.

// matrilineal according to the Orthodoxes
// "at least one parent" (IIRC) according to anyone else

chuckufarlie: skullkrusher: chuckufarlie: [acardattack.files.wordpress.com image 345x318]

Are you people really so ignorant about Jewish people?

I am not Jewish but I live on the Upper West Side of Manhattan so that basically makes me an honorary rabbi. What is your question, my boychick?

my only question is how some of the idiots on fark can be so ignorant.

because there's no IQ test to open a Fark account? What's the ignorance you're talking about?

Snarfangel: chuckufarlie: [acardattack.files.wordpress.com image 345x318]

Are you people really so ignorant about Jewish people?

They are a mythical people, like leprechauns.

And Madonna. Once she converted, she was touched again for the very first time.

I agree with the folks who say that your identity is not genetic. It has always appeared to me that the Jews treat their identity as more tribal than anything else. There is no denial when it comes to your ancestry but I don't think you have to be locked into that. My family originated in Russia but I don't claim that as my culture or even really my heritage. Some in my family do but I have found that when traveling in that part of the world they don't look at me as Russian. And they are right. Also, I don't subscribe to the teachings of the Russian Orthodox Church even though my grandmother did. We all have to make choices. Oh, and the black guy in my office wants to chime in that he isn't African either.

So jews do really run everything afterall?

TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: It's actually debated in the more modern parts Jewish community, if "Jewish" is an ethnicity anymore.

I would wage a bet that the anti-semitic community doesn't really care about that, though. Wonder what's the current view in those circles, who are generally not known for their great modern genetical acumen.

/The Nazi "Arierpass" went with great-great-great-grandparents, although great-grandparents were usually considered enough if you didn't have that much genealogical information

MBooda: When in Budapest, visit the Shoes on the Danube.
[media-cdn.tripadvisor.com image 550x412]

In 1944 the Nazis formally took over running Hungary through their Arrow Cross surrogates. The Arrow Cross promptly rounded up Jews and stuffed them into trains bound for the camps. When the trains were full, the Arrow Cross started taking the Jews down to the river. They lined them up, made them take off their shoes, shot them in the back of the head and dumped the bodies in the river. Today there are bronze shoes permanently attached to the waterfront.

Jobbik are the heirs of the Arrow Cross.


Interesting - thanks for posting that. Is there any sort of a sign there to explain why the bronze shoes are there?

neversubmit Smartest
Funniest
2012-06-29 11:41:05 AM


Don't we hate in others what we most dislike about ourselves?



If so, it sure changes the tone of all those Sandusky threads.

astelmaszek: So jews do really run everything afterall?

Even their opponents have to admit they are hardworking.

Dr Dreidel: False. Old Testament-ly, they're just as Jewish as anyone else ("as Jewish as Tevye," one might say) - the actual wording of the text is that they need to be ensured of a place in the community, "for remember that you were once strangers in a land that was not yours."

And then there's a collection of philosophical explanations and extrapolations - "a convert was always 'Jewish', they just didn't realize it until deciding to convert", "a convert is considered to have no family history other than 'being a Jew'", "one is not allowed to bring up a convert's pre-Jewish history"...

And there is no such thing (religiously) as "half-Jewish", unless you're describing your family history. It's a binary state - you is, or you ain't.

// matrilineal according to the Orthodoxes
// "at least one parent" (IIRC) according to anyone else

Fine words, not consistent in reality. People are people. That's how it is.

skullkrusher: chuckufarlie: skullkrusher: chuckufarlie: [acardattack.files.wordpress.com image 345x318]

Are you people really so ignorant about Jewish people?

I am not Jewish but I live on the Upper West Side of Manhattan so that basically makes me an honorary rabbi. What is your question, my boychick?

my only question is how some of the idiots on fark can be so ignorant.

because there's no IQ test to open a Fark account? What's the ignorance you're talking about?

the fact that they have no idea that Jewish does not always mean religion.

chuckufarlie: Interesting - thanks for posting that. Is there any sort of a sign there to explain why the bronze shoes are there?

Just some small plaques, in Hebrew and English, in the stone embankment. Here's the English one:

chuckufarlie: MBooda: When in Budapest, visit the Shoes on the Danube.
[media-cdn.tripadvisor.com image 550x412]

In 1944 the Nazis formally took over running Hungary through their Arrow Cross surrogates. The Arrow Cross promptly rounded up Jews and stuffed them into trains bound for the camps. When the trains were full, the Arrow Cross started taking the Jews down to the river. They lined them up, made them take off their shoes, shot them in the back of the head and dumped the bodies in the river. Today there are bronze shoes permanently attached to the waterfront.

Jobbik are the heirs of the Arrow Cross.


Interesting - thanks for posting that. Is there any sort of a sign there to explain why the bronze shoes are there?


and you are calling us ignorant?

Funny, he doesn't LOOK jewish.

It's like high profile closet homosexuals bashing homosexuals, right?

nevermind, i retract that last statement

Okay people, your resident agnostic Jewish gal is here to clear this up:

"Jewish" refers to both the ethnic background, the religion, and the traditional culture surrounding those communities. You can be one without necessarily being the other. If you are ethnically Jewish, you are regarded by the religious as having a Biblical obligation to keep the covenant with God. You can, of course, just ignore this and live your life however you damn well please. Conversely, if you are not ethnically Jewish, you can convert to the religion.

To draw a comparison: The Hopis have their own religion and culture. If a white baby were adopted by Hopis and raised in the culture, he would be religiously and culturally a Hopi, but not ethnically a Hopi. Conversely, if a Hopi baby were adopted by whites and raised in suburban home with no knowledge of his background, he would be ethnically a Hopi, but not a Hopi in the religious or cultural sense.

Does this clear this up?

Judaism is a religion. That is all. There was no question about that until one Adolph Hitler wrote a book called Mein Kampf claiming in all kinds of convoluted ways that Judaism was a race not a religion, and used that as a starting point for justifying the singling out and persecution of Jews. That is all.

chuckufarlie: the fact that they have no idea that Jewish does not always mean religion.

Not thinking in racial terms is a kind of ignorance/stupidity I'm quite okay with.

chuckufarlie: skullkrusher: chuckufarlie: skullkrusher: chuckufarlie: [acardattack.files.wordpress.com image 345x318]

Are you people really so ignorant about Jewish people?

I am not Jewish but I live on the Upper West Side of Manhattan so that basically makes me an honorary rabbi. What is your question, my boychick?

my only question is how some of the idiots on fark can be so ignorant.

because there's no IQ test to open a Fark account? What's the ignorance you're talking about?

the fact that they have no idea that Jewish does not always mean religion.

friend of mine is a Syrian-Russian Jew. Ask him his background, he says he's Jewish. He's not. He's Syrian and Russian. Have 2 other friends who are twin brothers. Dad is Jewish, mom is Italian Catholic. They say they're half Jewish. They're not either. They're half German and half Italian.

There are ethnic Jews but in the US at least, many of the people who call themselves Jewish as a ethnic background, ain't. They're Germans and Russians and Poles and assorted other European countries.

advex101: I agree with the folks who say that your identity is not genetic. It has always appeared to me that the Jews treat their identity as more tribal than anything else. There is no denial when it comes to your ancestry but I don't think you have to be locked into that. My family originated in Russia but I don't claim that as my culture or even really my heritage. Some in my family do but I have found that when traveling in that part of the world they don't look at me as Russian. And they are right. Also, I don't subscribe to the teachings of the Russian Orthodox Church even though my grandmother did. We all have to make choices. Oh, and the black guy in my office wants to chime in that he isn't African either.

When it comes to anti-Semitic attitudes, they are concerned with genetics. Religion is not even part of it either.

chuckufarlie: When it comes to anti-Semitic attitudes, they are concerned with genetics. Religion is not even part of it either.

The Spanish Inquisition would beg to differ.

Im_Gumby: Paging Tatsuma... Tatsuma please report to thread #7188189. Thank you.

/The red zone is for loading and unloading only.
//There is no stopping in the white zone.

Look, not for nothing, but can't we have a threat that DOESN'T boil down to antisemites vs. anti-Zionists vs. one ultra-Orthodox Jew pontificating on Jewish law? Just once? It's close to Shabbat. Maybe he's already away davening at shul.

Magorn: if your momma was Jewish, YOU are Jewish, and she was Jewish if Her momma was. It's basically a matrelineal thing, and because it's both a religion and tribal identity, conversion/apostasy doesn't get you out of it.

Neither tribal identity nor religion should have a genetic component tied to them. That's the point. The guy in the link is pretty clearly not Jewish in any real sense, and it shouldn't matter what tribe his parents may have associated with or where they may or may not have gone to worship. This matrelineal labeling thing is an archaic and harmful device.

mhd: chuckufarlie: When it comes to anti-Semitic attitudes, they are concerned with genetics. Religion is not even part of it either.

The Spanish Inquisition would beg to differ.

I didn't expect that.

divgradcurl: chuckufarlie: MBooda: When in Budapest, visit the Shoes on the Danube.
[media-cdn.tripadvisor.com image 550x412]

In 1944 the Nazis formally took over running Hungary through their Arrow Cross surrogates. The Arrow Cross promptly rounded up Jews and stuffed them into trains bound for the camps. When the trains were full, the Arrow Cross started taking the Jews down to the river. They lined them up, made them take off their shoes, shot them in the back of the head and dumped the bodies in the river. Today there are bronze shoes permanently attached to the waterfront.

Jobbik are the heirs of the Arrow Cross.


Interesting - thanks for posting that. Is there any sort of a sign there to explain why the bronze shoes are there?


and you are calling us ignorant?

yes, I am calling you stupid. In your case, you are certainly stupid. There is nothing wrong with the question I asked and if you think that there is, you are incredibly stupid.

I'm going to weigh in on the "Jewish is an ethnicity, not just a religion" side, for the following reasons:

1) Because Jews were discriminated against for a very long time (and still are in a lot of places), they had a tendency to form communities (and marry within those communities), and, as a result, there are genetic traits that are common to Jews in a similar manner that ethnic traits are common to ethnicities.

2) There are many places in the world (other than the US) where the "Jewish is an ethnicity" is imposed involuntarily e.g., USSR, before falling apart in the early 90s, listed "Jewish" as a nationality on the birth certificates of Jewish Russians, and "Russian" on the birth certificate of non-Jewish Russians.

/I think society is gradually moving away from "Jewish is an ethnicity," which is probably good.

indylaw: Im_Gumby: Paging Tatsuma... Tatsuma please report to thread #7188189. Thank you.

/The red zone is for loading and unloading only.
//There is no stopping in the white zone.

Look, not for nothing, but can't we have a threat that DOESN'T boil down to antisemites vs. anti-Zionists vs. one ultra-Orthodox Jew pontificating on Jewish law? Just once? It's close to Shabbat. Maybe he's already away davening at shul.

In a thread clearly about Jews? UNPOSSIBLE!

MBooda: mhd: chuckufarlie: When it comes to anti-Semitic attitudes, they are concerned with genetics. Religion is not even part of it either.

The Spanish Inquisition would beg to differ.

I didn't expect that.

It is kind of surprising.

mhd: chuckufarlie: When it comes to anti-Semitic attitudes, they are concerned with genetics. Religion is not even part of it either.

The Spanish Inquisition would beg to differ.

When it comes to anti-Semitic attitudes, they are Jobbik is concerned with genetics. Religion is not even part of it either.


feel better??

TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: Dr Dreidel: False. Old Testament-ly, they're just as Jewish as anyone else ("as Jewish as Tevye," one might say) - the actual wording of the text is that they need to be ensured of a place in the community, "for remember that you were once strangers in a land that was not yours."

And then there's a collection of philosophical explanations and extrapolations - "a convert was always 'Jewish', they just didn't realize it until deciding to convert", "a convert is considered to have no family history other than 'being a Jew'", "one is not allowed to bring up a convert's pre-Jewish history"...

And there is no such thing (religiously) as "half-Jewish", unless you're describing your family history. It's a binary state - you is, or you ain't.

// matrilineal according to the Orthodoxes
// "at least one parent" (IIRC) according to anyone else

Fine words, not consistent in reality. People are people. That's how it is.

Sure. There are xenophobic asshats who don't like "outsiders" in their communities, and then you have places like where my folks live. An interracial "mixed" couple (he converted shortly after they got married), they initially had a hard time (but that was 1968). At his funeral a few weeks ago was filled with people, none of whom could have said anything bad even if they'd wanted to. Cliff was really that awesome of a dude, and his family really does have the respect of everyone in the area.

So what I'm saying is that I agree. There are Jews who eat pork and think nothing of it and Jews who discriminate against converts (or are simply racists, which isn't actually specifically prohibited, but covered by a number of the other rules). Be sure you know what the rules actually are, though.

"Knowing who is a pure-race Hungarian is not what counts. The important thing is the way one behaves as a Hungarian," he is quoted as saying.

What the fark is a pure-race hungarian?

FarkedOver: Fark means prick or dick in Hungarian, I believe.

That should be "farok" - it literally means tail but it also refers to male genitalia.

They ran out of gypsies to blame for everything?

traylor: FarkedOver: Fark means prick or dick in Hungarian, I believe.

That should be "farok" - it literally means tail but it also refers to male genitalia.

Hungarians are built funny.

chuckufarlie: if your momma was Jewish, YOU are Jewish, and she was Jewish if Her momma was. It's basically a matrelineal thing, and because it's both a religion and tribal identity, conversion/apostasy doesn't get you out of it.

works the same way if your father was Jewish.

Awesome...9.5/10.

/throws a fivver in the guitar case

84 comments and no one's brought up the whole 'anti-semitism has almost nothing to do with jews except when the term is being used to manipulate people's emotions for political purposes by people with an axe to grind' thing yet? not many semetic people are jewish, far from all jewish people are semetic, and a whole lot of jewish people seem to have a grudge against a whole lot of other semitic people, while a whole lot of semitic people seem to have a grudge against the jewish people, and all that.

I'm sure his nipples exploded with delight at the news.

Snarfangel: chuckufarlie: [acardattack.files.wordpress.com image 345x318]

Are you people really so ignorant about Jewish people?

They are a mythical people, like leprechauns.

I have a friend who is and looks "Classically" Jewish (actually shes Russian Jewish, but the long black curly hair and nose are almost the model of the stereotype-and the Brooklyn accent doesn't help) in the late 1990's she was at a pool party in the deep south and she noticed one young man staring holes in her through most of the party (kid was likely 13 or so and she was mid-20's at the time). Since she knew she didn't look THAT good in a bikini, especially compared to others there, she finally asked the kid what he was looking at. Without a trace of malice or guile, he admitted he was trying to see the scar from when she had her tail and horns removed after birth.

mhd: chuckufarlie: When it comes to anti-Semitic attitudes, they are concerned with genetics. Religion is not even part of it either.

The Spanish Inquisition would beg to differ.

Because the Spanish Inquisition's viewpoint has mattered in the last couple of centuries?

I did not expect that.