Lucky me, I heroically oppose them both.

Because I'm right. DUH.

Seriously though single payer would have been much better. But the harsh reality is that it wasn't passable in Congress. Blame lobbyists.

This article sucks. It's too factual and I'm not sure who or what I'm supposed to be outraged about.

I am sure this thread will be filled with the unique and never discovered perspective that both sides are equally bad.

/Vote Republican though

Somehow I think the derp would have intensified regardless of how the case was decided.

Obama reiterated his "if you like your plan, you can keep your plan" refrain, despite the fact that at least a few million workers won't keep their employer-sponsored plans, according to the Congressional Budget Office.

This isn't even grammatical. It should be "Obama repeatedly reiterated his refrain."

/Sorry, pet peeve.

Obama reiterated his "if you like your plan, you can keep your plan" refrain, despite the fact that at least a few million workers won't keep their employer-sponsored plans, according to the Congressional Budget Office.

Forgive me if I'm not understanding correctly, but this is more the fault of those employers who are making a choice, no? In other words, the free market. I'd think the right would have no problem with that.

Curiously enough, the party I historically supported is now the one I am vehemently against, maybe because they started hating policies they used to support once the HNIC got his hands on them (e.g., Healthcare Reform).

Might take a while to get it rolling as they spent most of their time recently making videos to celebrate the SCOTUS declaring it unconstitutional.

//ha ha

'Keep Your Plan' Promise

This is pretty goofy. No, the law doesn't guarantee this, but it doesn't mandate that either. The market is still going to shift around, which is true whether ObamaCare exists or not.

This is the kind of reaching nitpicking I have little respect for from "fact checkers."

EVERYTHING EVERYWHERE IS RUINED FOREVER!!!

Obama said it goes into effect 2014.

How can he even make a prediction like this? Especially when the world is going to end this year.

Liar-in-chief

Budget for PPACA Public Relations:

Catering: $3,004,983.00
Messaging: $3.50

Jixa: [t0.gstatic.com image 256x192]
EVERYTHING EVERYWHERE IS RUINED FOREVER!!!

hear the angels sing
this is the end of all things
all is clear
nothing's here
fear
what is fear?
nothing's here
i see here nothing
hear the angels sing
this is the end of all things

Wow. That was weird and unexpected. A fact check that actually looks at facts rather than just being a thinly disguised opinion piece or some vague semantic bullsh*t. Now repackaging it as that can be left to Farkers.

Both sides are bad, especially In the way that they interact to narrow the range of debate and serve monied interests. One side or the other may be temporarily less evil evil but the gap is not and never can be wide enough to make it morally justifiable or even pragmatically useful to vote for the duopoly's soft half.

It has become contrarian, "whatever the other side is for I oppose" since Clinton. I do blame the right more, the left doesnt really have the unity to hold them hostage in congress in the same way.

They both do more bickering than politicking.

/so vote republican
/amirite?

Jixa: [t0.gstatic.com image 256x192]
EVERYTHING EVERYWHERE IS RUINED FOREVER!!!

There is a guy in my office who swears it is, the worst part is he swears he's not a republican.

I don't think anybody has factored in the rising costs associated with treating the epidemic of butthurt.

What a ridiculous article. To summarize-

"Obama isn't telling the whole truth about Obamacare, because people against it could twist his words and misinterpret it. So both sides do it, Palin is President and vote Republican."

The one person who is seriously wounded by this is one Willard Mitt Romney.

His only real line between Romneycare and Obamacare before NFIB v Sebelius was that "it was constitutional in Mass, not in the US". That's no longer a reasonable line of argument.

Now, he has to get into some pretty fine details of why Obamacare isn't good while Romneycare was (and remember, most Mass. residents like it). Asking Americans to parse the finer details of Obamacare? They've already proven they either don't want to or can't do that. Even worse, if they did get into the details, many more might like it.

Lawnchair: The one person who is seriously wounded by this is one Willard Mitt Romney.

His only real line between Romneycare and Obamacare before NFIB v Sebelius was that "it was constitutional in Mass, not in the US". That's no longer a reasonable line of argument.

Now, he has to get into some pretty fine details of why Obamacare isn't good while Romneycare was (and remember, most Mass. residents like it). Asking Americans to parse the finer details of Obamacare? They've already proven they either don't want to or can't do that. Even worse, if they did get into the details, many more might like it.

You're assuming he has to be logically consistent. That's only required of Democrats.

bdub77: Because I'm right. DUH.

Seriously though single payer would have been much better. But the harsh reality is that it wasn't passable in Congress. Blame lobbyists.

To be fair, in a conflict between a group that wants complete free-market privatization and a group that wants full government ownership of the industry, a semi-private system that hands the government substantial control without cutting the middle man is at least a logical compromise.

So at least the ACA makes sense, whereas I'm still trying to figure out how the tax cut extension compromise between "save money by not renewing half the cuts" and "save money by cutting programs but keep the cuts" ended up being "save money by keeping all the cuts and also expanding various programs". What?

Actually it was pretty easy to pick a side once I saw who was waving guns around and crying about socialism.

Gave up on third parties after Anderson.

red5ish

I don't think anybody has factored in the rising costs associated with treating the epidemic of butthurt.

Ha! And the Republicans should love Obamacare because now their butthurt can be covered even though it is a pre-existing condition.

Jim_Callahan: bdub77: Because I'm right. DUH.

Seriously though single payer would have been much better. But the harsh reality is that it wasn't passable in Congress. Blame lobbyists.

To be fair, in a conflict between a group that wants complete free-market privatization and a group that wants full government ownership of the industry, a semi-private system that hands the government substantial control without cutting the middle man is at least a logical compromise.

So at least the ACA makes sense, whereas I'm still trying to figure out how the tax cut extension compromise between "save money by not renewing half the cuts" and "save money by cutting programs but keep the cuts" ended up being "save money by keeping all the cuts and also expanding various programs". What?

Wow, you thought you'd sneak that in and not get called on it?

Cough "bullshiat" "bullshiat"!

Mandating responsibility != government ownership. Really sad.

//so vote Republican

It's already unbearable to even try to watch TV here in VA and now it's only going to get worse. Thank God for DVRs.

Lawnchair: The one person who is seriously wounded by this is one Willard Mitt Romney.

I'm sorry, but Romney has made it a point to lie at every possible turn at every possible campaign stop to a truly alarming extent for a presidential candidate. His "blizzard of lies" strategy and "I don't remember that" or "I'm not going to comment on that" when he gets called out have pretty effectively shut down the major media outlets that can't keep up. What makes you think he won't just drop that old line of "reasoning" and just start outright lying about this the way he lies about so many other things already?

Jixa: [t0.gstatic.com image 256x192]
EVERYTHING EVERYWHERE IS RUINED FOREVER!!!

Jim_Callahan: bdub77: Because I'm right. DUH.

Seriously though single payer would have been much better. But the harsh reality is that it wasn't passable in Congress. Blame lobbyists.

To be fair, in a conflict between a group that wants complete free-market privatization and a group that wants full government ownership of the industry, a semi-private system that hands the government substantial control without cutting the middle man is at least a logical compromise.

So at least the ACA makes sense, whereas I'm still trying to figure out how the tax cut extension compromise between "save money by not renewing half the cuts" and "save money by cutting programs but keep the cuts" ended up being "save money by keeping all the cuts and also expanding various programs". What?

What is this group that wants full government ownership of healthcare? Because all American liberals want is single payer, not to make doctors, clinics, and hospitals government owned and operated.

Just because McDonalds is the only customer of Martin Brower doesn't mean McDonalds owns Martin Brower.

The Republicans lie; the Democrats lie and I'm supposed to figure out the truth?

Giltric: Budget for PPACA Public Relations:

Catering: $3,004,983.00
Messaging: $3.50

Lap Dances: $20,000

Oh wait sorry that the for RNC public relations.

I still can't get over the fact that "Obamacare" and the entire idea of the individual mandate was a conservative, Republican idea in the first place.

Conservative Republicans such as Romney and Gingrich supported "Obamacare" from 1994 all the way until 2008, when Obama was elected.

Now, its the death of America and the worst thing since AIDS

oryx: The Republicans lie; the Democrats lie and I'm supposed to figure out the truth?

Of you spend a little time. You can actually find resources that you can find the truth.

When the GOP or Dems say something, look it up and verify and see what is actually true. It's really not that hard or time consuming.

I did this a long time ago about global warming. I actually looked up the papers and read some of them. Yes I am not an expert but I can tell the difference between science and FUD attacks.

Assloads of lies were told, or as we call it here in America, politics.

oryx: The Republicans lie; the Democrats lie and I'm supposed to figure out the truth?

Looking at your posting history looks like you already picked a side that you think is telling the truth.

Hint:

/Vote Republican

I've decided to realign my political views to be sandwich-centric. Which party is pro-sandwich?

vernonFL: I still can't get over the fact that "Obamacare" and the entire idea of the individual mandate was a conservative, Republican idea in the first place.

Conservative Republicans such as Romney and Gingrich supported "Obamacare" from 1994 all the way until 2008, when Obama was elected.

Now, its the death of America and the worst thing since AIDS

2007:

Actually it is more Quixotic than heroic, because in the end Republicans still have all the money.

Job Creator: Jim_Callahan: bdub77: Because I'm right. DUH.

Seriously though single payer would have been much better. But the harsh reality is that it wasn't passable in Congress. Blame lobbyists.

To be fair, in a conflict between a group that wants complete free-market privatization and a group that wants full government ownership of the industry, a semi-private system that hands the government substantial control without cutting the middle man is at least a logical compromise.

So at least the ACA makes sense, whereas I'm still trying to figure out how the tax cut extension compromise between "save money by not renewing half the cuts" and "save money by cutting programs but keep the cuts" ended up being "save money by keeping all the cuts and also expanding various programs". What?

What is this group that wants full government ownership of healthcare? Because all American liberals want is single payer, not to make doctors, clinics, and hospitals government owned and operated.

Just because McDonalds is the only customer of Martin Brower doesn't mean McDonalds owns Martin Brower.

I think what libs want is a quasi governmental organization. Like FDIC, USPS, Fanny, and freddie.

Responsive, efficient, delivery of services.

IrateShadow: I've decided to realign my political views to be sandwich-centric. Which party is pro-sandwich?

The republicans are pro-woman-making-me (but not you)-a-sandwich, the democrats are pro-everyone-gets-a-sandwich.

IrateShadow: I've decided to realign my political views to be sandwich-centric. Which party is pro-sandwich?

I don't know, but I've seen a lot of calls to nominate "Freeze-Dried Puffer Fish".

oryx: The Republicans lie; the Democrats lie and I'm supposed to figure out the truth?

oryx: Republicans get acquitted; Democrats get convicted. Ergo, the new felon voters will be Democrats.

As an the most Independent of Independents who will you be voting for this November? Your vote from the middle is very important.

Giltric: Budget for PPACA Public Relations:

Catering: $3,004,983.00
Messaging: $3.50

Why was the budget $3,004,986.50? That seems like a weird spot to set a limit.

// but I agree, lots of people were catered to
// almost like a bill that affects ~17% of GDP could be expected to
// lots of pockets that need linin'

I saw Pelosi on TV today talking about the BELIEF that the law's supporters have that healthcare is a RIGHT and NOT a privelidge... and the Supreme court upheld this belief.

I could be wrong... I might be oversimplifying...

But the only RIGHT I've been granted as far as I can tell...
Is the right to be forced to BUY my own insurance if my employer isn't providing it... and be penalized if I don't.

Making it illegal NOT TO OWN SOMETHING.... isn't exactly the same thing as making it your RIGHT to own it.

Mad Tea Party: IrateShadow: I've decided to realign my political views to be sandwich-centric. Which party is pro-sandwich?

[1.bp.blogspot.com image 640x480]

Is that a home made samich. I bet that's a seven eleven samich. you sprang for the big buck there. I don't like samiches myself but I have a friend that owns a meat processing plant.

stlbluez: I saw Pelosi on TV today talking about the BELIEF that the law's supporters have that healthcare is a RIGHT and NOT a privelidge... and the Supreme court upheld this belief.

I could be wrong... I might be oversimplifying...

But the only RIGHT I've been granted as far as I can tell...
Is the right to be forced to BUY my own insurance if my employer isn't providing it... and be penalized if I don't.

Making it illegal NOT TO OWN SOMETHING.... isn't exactly the same thing as making it your RIGHT to own it.

You know I wasn't really sure of your argument but posting the major points in ALL CAPS convinced me. Thanks!

stlbluez: I saw Pelosi on TV today talking about the BELIEF that the law's supporters have that healthcare is a RIGHT and NOT a privelidge... and the Supreme court upheld this belief.

I could be wrong... I might be oversimplifying...

But the only RIGHT I've been granted as far as I can tell...
Is the right to be forced to BUY my own insurance if my employer isn't providing it... and be penalized if I don't.

Making it illegal NOT TO OWN SOMETHING.... isn't exactly the same thing as making it your RIGHT to own it.

Nah, we've just removed your "right" to have everyone else pay for your uninsured ass to visit the emergency room.

So...we're calling it PPACA now that the Supreme Court is cool with it? It's no longer Obamacare?

SN1987a goes boom: So...we're calling it PPACA now that the Supreme Court is cool with it? It's no longer Obamacare?

you got a sick mouse in your pocket?