I remember every penny being paid back on the loans. I don't remember anyone claiming that they would compensate for share price.

vpb: I remember every penny being paid back on the loans. I don't remember anyone claiming that they would compensate for share price.

Remember, this is the same website that said Stephen Hawking would be dead if he was a British citizen because of NHS.

Care to guess what country Stephen Hawking is a citizen of?

Volkswagen(VLKAY) pays workers at its new Tennessee plant only about half what GM does.

Written as if paying your employees a sh*tty wage is the only way to be profitable. German autoworkers make twice what their American counterparts make and yet as if by magic those companies are quite profitable. It's a race to the top there, and a race to the bottom here. America is truly exceptional.

Time for Andrew Malcolm to once again...SHAKE THE CRIME STICK.

vpb: I remember every penny being paid back on the loans. I don't remember anyone claiming that they would compensate for share price.

That sounds like it would be socialism, to be honest.

Dusk-You-n-Me: German autoworkers make twice what their American counterparts make and yet as if by magic those companies are quite profitable. It's a race to the top there, and a race to the bottom here.

--

Average compensation (a figure including wages and employer-paid benefits) for autoworkers in Germany was 48.97 Euros per hour ($67.14 US), while compensation for auto work in the United States averaged $33.77 per hour, or about half as much as in Germany, all according to 2007 data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics. For Germany-based auto producers, the U.S. is a low-wage country. Link, .pdf

How strange it is that our economy is sputtering along when the middle class has NO GODDAMN MONEY to buy anything beyond the bare necessities. We are truly exceptional.

Dusk-You-n-Me: Volkswagen(VLKAY) pays workers at its new Tennessee plant only about half what GM does.

Written as if paying your employees a sh*tty wage is the only way to be profitable. German autoworkers make twice what their American counterparts make and yet as if by magic those companies are quite profitable. It's a race to the top there, and a race to the bottom here. America is truly exceptional.

And the German manufacturers are all unionized too. And they have universal healthcare.

Dusk-You-n-Me: Dusk-You-n-Me: German autoworkers make twice what their American counterparts make and yet as if by magic those companies are quite profitable. It's a race to the top there, and a race to the bottom here.

--

Average compensation (a figure including wages and employer-paid benefits) for autoworkers in Germany was 48.97 Euros per hour ($67.14 US), while compensation for auto work in the United States averaged $33.77 per hour, or about half as much as in Germany, all according to 2007 data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics. For Germany-based auto producers, the U.S. is a low-wage country. Link, .pdf

How strange it is that our economy is sputtering along when the middle class has NO GODDAMN MONEY to buy anything beyond the bare necessities. We are truly exceptional.

But it's investors who create jobs, right? We don't need no stinkin' consumption.

GM's market share and profits got an artificial boost in 2011 as Japan's earthquake and Thailand's massive floods wrecked havoc with supply chains for Toyota and other Japanese automakers.

cameroncrazy1984: vpb: I remember every penny being paid back on the loans. I don't remember anyone claiming that they would compensate for share price.

Remember, this is the same website that said Stephen Hawking would be dead if he was a British citizen because of NHS.

Care to guess what country Stephen Hawking is a citizen of?

They did say that and after Stephen Hawking released a press statement saying he was alive because of the UK NHS socialized system, they walked it back and something else just as stupid.

IBD released a statement saying that what they meant was that Hawking would not have been alive unless it was for drug research and development of the US health care system.

Then a statement came out from the French pharmaceutical company which developed/created the ALS drugs Hawking takes.

The failure of this "news" service was beyond epic.

Ford - Built without your tax dollars

Of course, there's no chance that the Obama administration will sell off its GM stake before Election Day. That would force Obama to recognize actual losses, which would remind voters that the bailout was a massive transfer from taxpayers to unions.

yes, goddamned that nefarious obama who refuses to sell stocks at a massive loss, all for some short-term political gain!

ownership in a company is not a loan

skullkrusher: ownership in a company is not a loan

That's OK - IBD is not a good source of information.

vpb: I remember every penny being paid back on the loans. I don't remember anyone claiming that they would compensate for share price.

Andrew Malcolm is a disingenuous twat.

FTA: Obama let GM keep $45 billion in past losses to offset future profits. Those are usually wiped out or slashed, along with debts, in bankruptcy. But the administration essentially gifted $45 billion in write-offs (book value $18 billion) to GM. So when GM earned a $7.6 billion profit in 2011 (more on that below), it paid no taxes.

Sounds like Colonel Sanders is just mad that senorbama is attempting to stimulate business by lowering taxes.

Majick Thise: Ford - Built without your tax dollars

You realize that Ford was a huge proponent of the bailout right?

vpb: I remember every penny being paid back on the loans.

Do you remember the source of the money that GM used for the payback? TARP, not earnings. They used bailout funds to repay their other bailout funds, and this is supposed to be an accomplishment.

Fart_Machine: Majick Thise: Ford - Built without your tax dollars

You realize that Ford was a huge proponent of the bailout right?

Nu uh. You see, car companies exist in a vacuum where their badging means that they in no way shape or form rely on anything but their own supply chain.

NOT THIS shiat AGAIN

GO BACK TO YOUR CREEPY BIKE SHOP OLD MAN

GM's market share and profits got an artificial boost in 2011 as Japan's earthquake and Thailand's massive floods wrecked havoc with supply chains for Toyota and other Japanese automakers. But with Toyota back on track and VW and Hyundai aggressively expanding in America, GM is rapidly losing share in 2012.

This is lazy. GM has been losing market share in the US every year since 1950. What matters is profitability and unit sale growth. Everyone has been killing it on growth this year - GM was up 16 percent in US sales in June.

As for emerging market, GM is estimating that Chinese sales will rise from 2.8M in 2012 to 5M by 2015. They're on a tear over there.

Whatever you do, don't get your financial advice from this publication. It's a political rag masquerading as a business magazine.

When the bailouts were cooked up, I just assumed as taxpayer I was getting the short end. After that, anything recovered is found money.

/lowered expectations

Majick Thise: Ford - Built without your tax dollars

Do you mean "didn't take bailout money"? Or "restructured their debt right before the credit markets evaporated"?

"OMG, Matlock died!?!?!?"

Rapmaster2000: Whatever you do, don't get your financial advice from this publication. It's a political rag masquerading as a business magazine.

Whoever didn't figure it out with: But this is Government Motors. The Treasury still owns 26.5% of GM, or 500 million shares. Taxpayers are still out $26.4 billion in direct aid. deserves to have their money taken away.

"Direct aid" in the form of buying stock. The horror.

// isn't this essentially an argument against privatizing SS?
// plus, he argues against tax cuts because Obama did them

Subby: Umm no, I don't. Wow you are retarded!!!

It was all Romney's idea to begin with, right?

well maybe if the private company had managed themselves better in the first place, our tax dollars wouldn't have been needed.

BUT, lame angry conservative blog in angry and lame and it's all the governments fault.

Stopped reading at "... But this is Government Motors...", because life is too short to waste it on stupid.

Darn you, Baggin' Saggin' Barry HUSSEIN Islama, for not selling off GM stock at a massive loss!

...So we CAN'T take public money and invest it in private companies because the societal risk is too large?

STUPID RURAL ELECTRIFICATION!

If IBD said it, the opposite must be true.

Dusk-You-n-Me: Volkswagen(VLKAY) pays workers at its new Tennessee plant only about half what GM does.

Written as if paying your employees a sh*tty wage is the only way to be profitable. German autoworkers make twice what their American counterparts make and yet as if by magic those companies are quite profitable. It's a race to the top there, and a race to the bottom here. America is truly exceptional.

When I read that, I said to myself "that has got to be some bullshiat". So I followed the link

"VW pays $27 an hour for new employees in wages and benefits, about half of the $52 an hour labor cost in Detroit. "

See what they did there? Compared new employees to all employees. I was expecting to see it compared to the "$70 an hour" claim, but this number is even more contrived.

I work in the financial services industry- NO ONE here takes IBD seriously. It's the Fox Business Network of newspapers.

Hey subby, you dipshiat. Loans being paid back, and the government owning shares in a company are TWO DIFFERENT THINGS.

Maybe the Romney campaign can make a Venn Diagram for you?

wow comments section derp herpa derp on that site.

Majick Thise
Ford - Built without your tax dollars

Lolwut? Roads. Kinda need those to make those cars useful. Gas, which is made from this stuff called oil, which we spend a farkload of tax dollars on to keep a steady supply (oh, wait, do you think we're in the Middle East 'cause we like the weather?). The entire budget of the NHTSA. Most of the budget of your state DMV.

The auto industry enjoys huge, ginormous taxpayer subsidies (as do airlines). And for bonus points: its (mostly) a good investment.

I'm at a total loss as to how these idiots think the stock share price has sh*t to do with the loan. Seriously...I can't make myself dumb enough to see it...

MisterRonbo: Majick Thise
Ford - Built without your tax dollars

Lolwut? Roads. Kinda need those to make those cars useful. Gas, which is made from this stuff called oil, which we spend a farkload of tax dollars on to keep a steady supply (oh, wait, do you think we're in the Middle East 'cause we like the weather?). The entire budget of the NHTSA. Most of the budget of your state DMV.

The auto industry enjoys huge, ginormous taxpayer subsidies (as do airlines). And for bonus points: its (mostly) a good investment.

Ford approved of the bailout but then didn't take any bailout money.... you must be very republican to intentionally misunderstand my point in order to make yours.

That lovely article covers all the conservative talking points in a nice little package. Government Motors. Bailouts. Unions. The Volt. Gas prices. Failing economy. If the author could just tie in birth certificates, ACORN and "secret Islamist", he would have the Holy Grail of conservative Herpa Derp.

Majick Thise: Ford - Built without your tax dollars

If GM and Chrysler has collapsed, the supply chain (all the small contractors who make the parts cars are built out of) would have collapsed and there would be no Ford.

Dwight_Yeast: and there would be no Ford.

Or Midwest.

Dusk-You-n-Me: Dwight_Yeast: and there would be no Ford.

Or Midwest.

On the upside, the place would be so crime-ridden and destroyed we'd probably see the Robocop franchise come to life.

skullkrusher: ownership in a company is not a loan

But a bad investment is still a bad investment.

I'm so totally shocked that still nobody wants to buy GM's shiat product.

/ not really

kregh99: skullkrusher: ownership in a company is not a loan

But a bad investment is still a bad investment.

I'm so totally shocked that still nobody wants to buy GM's shiat product.

/ not really

For market leader General Motors Co. GM +5.62% , sales jumped 16% to 248,750 as every one of its brands showed increases. That helped boost the stock by more than 5% in the holiday-shortened Tuesday session.

kregh99: skullkrusher: ownership in a company is not a loan

But a bad investment is still a bad investment.

I'm so totally shocked that still nobody wants to buy GM's shiat product.

/ not really

sure, but this wasn't an investment in the usual sense. This was an inflow of capital in exchange for equity to save the company. Buffett did a similar thing with Goldman Sachs during the meltdown - however, in his case he was looking to make a profit. That's not the point of the government's investment in GM. While I don't agree that a Ford collapse would have been a forgone conclusion if GM and Chrysler went down, let's not pretend this is something it's not

kregh99: I'm so totally shocked that still nobody wants to buy GM's shiat product.

Meanwhile, the Agnelli family are kicking ass and taking names at Chrysler. Most recent news is that they've partnered with Mazda to create a replacement for the Alfa Spider.

Philip Francis Queeg: kregh99: skullkrusher: ownership in a company is not a loan

But a bad investment is still a bad investment.

I'm so totally shocked that still nobody wants to buy GM's shiat product.

/ not really

For market leader General Motors Co. GM +5.62% , sales jumped 16% to 248,750 as every one of its brands showed increases. That helped boost the stock by more than 5% in the holiday-shortened Tuesday session.

Yeah, but I don't know how Nixon won. Nobody I know voted for him.

Philip Francis Queeg: kregh99: skullkrusher: ownership in a company is not a loan

But a bad investment is still a bad investment.

I'm so totally shocked that still nobody wants to buy GM's shiat product.

/ not really

For market leader General Motors Co. GM +5.62% , sales jumped 16% to 248,750 as every one of its brands showed increases. That helped boost the stock by more than 5% in the holiday-shortened Tuesday session.

I am sure much like gas coming down, the GOP will blame the stock going up on the invisible hand of the Obummer.

coeyagi: Philip Francis Queeg: kregh99: skullkrusher: ownership in a company is not a loan

But a bad investment is still a bad investment.

I'm so totally shocked that still nobody wants to buy GM's shiat product.

/ not really

For market leader General Motors Co. GM +5.62% , sales jumped 16% to 248,750 as every one of its brands showed increases. That helped boost the stock by more than 5% in the holiday-shortened Tuesday session.

I am sure much like gas coming down, the GOP will blame the stock going up on the invisible hand of the Obummer.

the chart on GM ain't pretty. I don't think anyone is getting blamed for the stock going up

Majick Thise
you must be very republican

Hey, hey, now, I know this is fark and all, but some insults just go too far

to intentionally misunderstand my point in order to make yours.

Actually, you didn't understand the point you were making. If you want to say Ford didn't require taxpayer dollars from the bailout, then say so, Captain Obvious. To say any auto company managed to make it without massive taxpayer subsidies is just nuts.

And since you seem perspective-challenged, let me help: Here are tens of billions of subsidies from taxpayers, every year, stretching back decades. Look here's one year when we tossed an extra $60 billion in to the pot, and that one thing Ford didn't *directly* benefit from (*cough* suppliers). So in your book that makes Ford completely different.

That was your point, wasn't it. Gee, do you still think it soulds smart?