Bain capital is kicking Romney's ass.

Romney should be proud of his efforts as a businessman - after all, what he did at Bain capital was literally NO different from what the CEOs of other investment firms have done/are still doing in this country. He did his job, and he followed the 'best practices' of his industry. stand tall, Mr. Romney! don't run from your record! embrace it and have a frank and open discussion of how the elite do business in this country.

I am sure that if Romney embraces what he did while running Bain Capital that nothing bad will happen to him.

right guys?

Weaver95: Bain capital is kicking Romney's ass.

Romney should be proud of his efforts as a businessman - after all, what he did at Bain capital was literally NO different from what the CEOs of other investment firms have done/are still doing in this country. He did his job, and he followed the 'best practices' of his industry. stand tall, Mr. Romney! don't run from your record! embrace it and have a frank and open discussion of how the elite do business in this country.

I am sure that if Romney embraces what he did while running Bain Capital that nothing bad will happen to him.

right guys?

That's what makes this so interesting. It's not that Romney did anything special. What he did was standard as an executive. This is how the 1% do it. It's SOP for them. I don't think Romney will see any investigation or punishment, but this might at least help make people realize just how truly farked the system is.

How about we bring back the old rules. They can get paid much more money, but if they screw up and the company lose lots of money or crashes, they have to throw themselves on their own sword.

Union collective bargaining bad. Having the Compensation Committee answer to you as boss good.

We are about to find out that Romney has more money than God......and better hair.

limeyfellow: How about we bring back the old rules. They can get paid much more money, but if they screw up and the company lose lots of money or crashes, they have to throw themselves on their own sword.

Throw them on their swords first, then allow them to get paid more.

"If there's nothing there, there's no 'there' there, don't create a there,'" Steele said.


/words to live by

Bloody William:

That's what makes this so interesting. It's not that Romney did anything special. What he did was standard as an executive. This is how the 1% do it. It's SOP for them. I don't think Romney will see any investigation or punishment, but this might at least help make people realize just how truly farked the system is.

exactly. When Romney was running Bain Capital, he didn't do anything different from what any other CEO was doing at the time. He wasn't even particularly outstanding as CEO, but he wasn't worst of the pack. He did what everyone else in his industry was doing, and he did an ok job at it. that's why he should take this as a 'teachable moment'. sit down with the press, and explain how the 1% really do business. explain how he made his fortune, and how he made his elite buddies oodles of cash at Bain Capital. He didn't break any laws, he didn't do anything immoral or unethical. He just did his job.

limeyfellow: How about we bring back the old rules. They can get paid much more money, but if they screw up and the company lose lots of money or crashes, they have to throw themselves on their own sword.

"Oh, how droll.You little people assume that we live by the same means, rules and morals as you. Ha! Ha, I say. As though we are of the same inferior stock as you poors. How very quaint of you. Now run along to your chevrolet echos and one bedroom apartments before we make you vote to give us even more of your money."

It'll never happen. That requires a sense of accountability or honor.

Sole stockholder.
Chairman of the Board.
Chief Executive Officer.
President.

What? You think he was actually involved in the company? These are clearly hands-off positions, especially when they're a;; held by the same person simultaneously.

Weaver95: he didn't do anything immoral or unethical

I disagree, just because the entire American corporate culture has become so horrible that you necessarily have to do immoral and unethical things to succeed. And those actions are lauded. So... not immoral or unethical in their structures, but in the structures of most human beings with a superego, very immoral and unethical.

Bloody William: Weaver95: he didn't do anything immoral or unethical

I disagree, just because the entire American corporate culture has become so horrible that you necessarily have to do immoral and unethical things to succeed. And those actions are lauded. So... not immoral or unethical in their structures, but in the structures of most human beings with a superego, very immoral and unethical.

well..within the elite 1% community, Romney's actions weren't immoral or unethical. to the REST of the universe, yes - those actions are very immoral and highly unethical. But within Romney's community what he did was perfectly acceptable.

Sometimes they outsmart themselves. What is smart at one time may not be smart later.
Mittens, so where did you live 1999-2002?

Weaver95: Bloody William:

That's what makes this so interesting. It's not that Romney did anything special. What he did was standard as an executive. This is how the 1% do it. It's SOP for them. I don't think Romney will see any investigation or punishment, but this might at least help make people realize just how truly farked the system is.

exactly. When Romney was running Bain Capital, he didn't do anything different from what any other CEO was doing at the time. He wasn't even particularly outstanding as CEO, but he wasn't worst of the pack. He did what everyone else in his industry was doing, and he did an ok job at it. that's why he should take this as a 'teachable moment'. sit down with the press, and explain how the 1% really do business. explain how he made his fortune, and how he made his elite buddies oodles of cash at Bain Capital. He didn't break any laws, he didn't do anything immoral or unethical. He just did his job.

And he'd be screwed with the electorate if he does. Worse, he's claiming he wasn't the CEO when he was according the papers filed with the SEC; this is a felony. He's only making it worse, today, by asking for an apology from Obama and opening up the SEC investigation since he's sticking to the line. He's going to keep pushing and he'll be knocked out of the race due to the investigation. This isn't about politics, it's about criminal action now.

"Elect me. I'm a successful businessman. I'll run the country just as successfully as I ran my company."

"You ran Bain capital, right? Hmm, looks like they got up to all kinds of dubious shiat."

"What's that got to do with me? I wasn't really in charge."

FTA: Fortune [...] reported on Thursday that Bain documents provided to potential investors in a new fund in 2000 did not list Romney as active in day-to-day operations.

SEC filings from 2000 and 2001 say differently.

There's also the part where he told the SEC he "was not involved in day-to-day operations at Bain in any way" (other than adding $100k to overhead, I guess).

Not only is Mitt Romney the quantum candidate, it appears he was a quantum CEO/Managing Partner as well. I think Mitt Romney may be a quantum person.

Surely the entire problem with rewarding CEOs so much, is it basically ensures they will do the worst job possible?

The funny thing being we have known this for 50 years, and it has been reproved over and over, yet all the people in critical positions are rewarded massively and incentivized massively completely in opposition to how reality actually works.

There was a point made about the JP Morgan idiocy on Morning Joe this morning (no, I'm serious) by the guy from CNBC they cut to in order to make it look like they care about what's going on(instead of giving Joe Scarborough an outlet to derp in).

He made the point of "Why shouldn't these CEOs take stupid risks?", because if they succeed then they somehow validate their unnecessarily high salaries, and if they fail, then the banks and taxpayers will cover their mistakes and they get a severance package and go to another job doing the same thing.

xria: Surely the entire problem with rewarding CEOs so much, is it basically ensures they will do the worst job possible?

The funny thing being we have known this for 50 years, and it has been reproved over and over, yet all the people in critical positions are rewarded massively and incentivized massively completely in opposition to how reality actually works.

Case in point: JP Morgan Chase

In a year in which a massive failure of basic oversight and management has been uncovered, a failure that the CEO lied to investors about, said CEO will make this year alone more than you and your entire family will make in 50 years.

So the statement can be oiled down to this:

Romney shouldn't be held responsible for Bain activities after 1999, except for the part where he was completely responsible for the activities certified in the official documents filed with the SEC for Bain.

Sorry guy, you don't get to have it both ways

xria: Surely the entire problem with rewarding CEOs so much, is it basically ensures they will do the worst job possible?

The funny thing being we have known this for 50 years, and it has been reproved over and over, yet all the people in critical positions are rewarded massively and incentivized massively completely in opposition to how reality actually works.

The reward system works TOTALLY different within the 1%. The big question is if we want such people to run our lives? And our country?

hackalope: So the statement can be oiled down to this:

Romney shouldn't be held responsible for Bain activities after 1999, except for the part where he was completely responsible for the activities certified in the official documents filed with the SEC for Bain.

Sorry guy, you don't get to have it both ways

Quantum Romney CAN indeed have it both ways.

Weaver95: He didn't break any laws, he didn't do anything immoral or unethical. He just did his job.

You realize you just contradicted yourself. It is impossible for a CEO of a private equity firm to do his job both morally and ethically. He will be terminated if he tries to do so for not bringing in a big enough return.

And yes, I do think Warren Buffett has behaved badly. I think the major difference between him and Romney is the capacity to feel shame.

From the article's comments:

Now Mitt. There is a simple way for you to clear this up. Release your tax returns from 1999-2002. If you didn't draw a salary from Bain then your story holds. If you were getting paid as the CEO, then you have no legs to stand on.

Mitt Romney testified to the Mass. elections board before running for governor that he was working at Bain on a part-time basis from 1999 until 2002 so that he could claim residency in Mass. If he lied on this he shouldn't have been governor.

He needs to be associated with Bain to sustain his "successful businessman" persona. He needs to be disassociated from Bain in 1999 to sustain his "not a leech" claim, despite the SEC filings. But he needs to be associated in 1999 to sustain his "Mass. resident" claim. And the one thing that might clear this up is his tax returns, which he declines to release...

You know that feeling where you stare and stare at the dots and suddenly a picture emerges and you realize that all along you've been looking at your optometrist's boat payments for the next five years? Yeah, it's like that.

CheatCommando: Weaver95: He didn't break any laws, he didn't do anything immoral or unethical. He just did his job.

You realize you just contradicted yourself. It is impossible for a CEO of a private equity firm to do his job both morally and ethically. He will be terminated if he tries to do so for not bringing in a big enough return.

And yes, I do think Warren Buffett has behaved badly. I think the major difference between him and Romney is the capacity to feel shame.

ah, but within Romney's elite 1% culture he has indeed acted 'morally' and 'ethically'. what's interesting is that Romney is just smart enough to realize (perhaps a bit late in the day but still...) that the way his people act will not be acceptable to the perceptions of the rank and file in this country. That, I think, is the real issue at hand: Romney does not want a discussion on how the 1% do business. that would open a very large can of worms and he'd quickly lose control over the debate.

Pharque-it: xria: Surely the entire problem with rewarding CEOs so much, is it basically ensures they will do the worst job possible?

The funny thing being we have known this for 50 years, and it has been reproved over and over, yet all the people in critical positions are rewarded massively and incentivized massively completely in opposition to how reality actually works.

The reward system works TOTALLY different within the 1%. The big question is if we want such people to run our lives? And our country?

They always have, so no reason to stop now

Weaver95: Bain capital is kicking Romney's ass.

This actually has me a bit worried. I'm afraid Romney isn't going to be able to hold on for another month and a half and we'll see a brokered convention instead.

czetie: And the one thing that might clear this up is his tax returns, which he declines to release...

Didn't he provide McCain 20 years of tax returns after which McCain decided Palin brought less baggage to his campaign?

Romney has said he was CEO in name only, delegating all day-to-day operations to 26 managing directors at the firm from February 1999 on.

Wait, didn't Bush do this as president?

Let's be perfectly honest, here:

1) Romney was actively involved in Bain Capital after 1999. He wasn't very active, but he was still active. Trust me on this. HE OWNED THE WHOLE THING. I read a Harvard case study on the Olympics for business school - Romney was very hands off w/the Olympics. He did a lot initially, but he eventually delegated a lot of stuff to others.

2) Romney appears to have lied on federal documents (SEC or FEC, it's unclear), which is possibly a felony. I say this because I don't yet know all the specifics of the case.

3) Even if he did, this will never see a court. Ever. On a scale from 1-10 in terms of political crimes, Romney's was a 1. Clinton's was a 3, lying to a grand jury (he got off but still) Bush/Cheney: 7 (war crimes but not like genocide and obviously never seen in a court of law). Aaron Burr murdered a founding father in a duel and was never tried for it. These people never get tried. They are elites, they ARE better than you in terms of prosecution, and there is nothing you can do about it. Everything at that level is plausible deniability. Sure once in a while they throw some guy under the bus, but not a POTUS candidate.

Either way Romney's history as CEO of Bain will probably be the chain Obama will try and hang on him. And it's a good accusation. The guy was a slimeball from a business perspective. And he's proven again and again to be a liar so why would anyone be surprised he lied to the government about something?

rohar: Romney has said he was CEO in name only, delegating all day-to-day operations to 26 managing directors at the firm from February 1999 on.

Wait, didn't Bush do this as president?

Nope, Cheney was running things.

Bain Capital took the fryers out of Dunkin' Donuts. It makes them world record holders of missing the point by expecting people to come in for stale farking donuts. Well, at least Americans didn't disappoint them by actually expecting fresh donuts from a place who's legend was built around the image of a man saying "Time to make the donuts"

/RIP Fred the Baker

balthan: Weaver95: Bain capital is kicking Romney's ass.

This actually has me a bit worried. I'm afraid Romney isn't going to be able to hold on for another month and a half and we'll see a brokered convention instead.

Why would you be worried? Romney was the least crazy of the GOP nominees sans maybe Huntsman during the primaries. The sheer amount of crazy that would be produced by a brokered convention would create a singularity of derp that would hopefully swallow all of Florida.

wildcardjack: Bain Capital took the fryers out of Dunkin' Donuts. It makes them world record holders of missing the point by expecting people to come in for stale farking donuts. Well, at least Americans didn't disappoint them by actually expecting fresh donuts from a place who's legend was built around the image of a man saying "Time to make the donuts"

/RIP Fred the Baker

I haven't been to DD in ages. I remember when their donuts were at least decent, particularly their crullers. I had a cruller a few years ago and it was like biting into a rancid vomit with a slimy film so gross you wanted to take a shower afterwards.

bdub77: wildcardjack: Bain Capital took the fryers out of Dunkin' Donuts. It makes them world record holders of missing the point by expecting people to come in for stale farking donuts. Well, at least Americans didn't disappoint them by actually expecting fresh donuts from a place who's legend was built around the image of a man saying "Time to make the donuts"

/RIP Fred the Baker

I haven't been to DD in ages. I remember when their donuts were at least decent, particularly their crullers. I had a cruller a few years ago and it was like biting into a rancid vomit with a slimy film so gross you wanted to take a shower afterwards.

I found their iced coffee acceptable, until I found the independent bagel store with the cute counter girls.

Romney is truly morphing into the Inspector Clouseau of candidates. This guy might not last until the convention, let alone the election.

What a maroon.

So Romney is not responsible for what Bain did while he was president in name only. But GWB was president in name only. Are we not supposed to blame him for all the stuff Cheney did?

Romney has said he was CEO in name only, delegating all day-to-day operations to 26 managing directors at the firm from February 1999 on

"I don't want poor people to use the emergency room as their doctor's office." - Barack

"OBAMA IS AN EMPTY SUIT DICTATOR!" - 'tards

"Hi, my name is Mitt Romney, and I'm running for the chief executive office of this country. You know my record is impeccable because I took the time to make sure that from 1999 onward, I was nothing but an empty suit as the CEO, on paper in name only." - Mitt

"YAY! ANYBODY BUT THAT EMPTY SUIT OBAMA!" - 'tards

bdub77: 3) Even if he did, this will never see a court. Ever. On a scale from 1-10 in terms of political crimes, Romney's was a 1. Clinton's was a 3, lying to a grand jury (he got off but still) Bush/Cheney: 7 (war crimes but not like genocide and obviously never seen in a court of law). Aaron Burr murdered a founding father in a duel and was never tried for it. These people never get tried. They are elites, they ARE better than you in terms of prosecution, and there is nothing you can do about it. Everything at that level is plausible deniability. Sure once in a while they throw some guy under the bus, but not a POTUS candidate.

B-b-b-b-but Burr!

YoungSwedishBlonde: balthan: Weaver95: Bain capital is kicking Romney's ass.

This actually has me a bit worried. I'm afraid Romney isn't going to be able to hold on for another month and a half and we'll see a brokered convention instead.

Why would you be worried? Romney was the least crazy of the GOP nominees sans maybe Huntsman during the primaries. The sheer amount of crazy that would be produced by a brokered convention would create a singularity of derp that would hopefully swallow all of Florida.

...and would be awesomely fun to watch!

Come on Romney, this is something feudal lords learned a long time ago. If you're gonna go haring off - the Crusades, spend some months at your liege's Court, whatever, you make sure the seneschal you leave behind to run your place will do what you would do and he's trustworthy.

If you accept Romney's campaign's counter-claims as utterly factual, it still points to one thing - he's an incompetent manager and he has no sense of who's trustworthy and who can do a job.

So put him in the really big chair and make him a President?

Am I the only one not getting what huge wage disparities have to with the content of TFA?

Yup, the last five months have been a waste. I think the Super PACkers are getting ready to throw Willard under the bus and pull the ol'switcheroo at the last minute with a brokered convention. They have been unhappy with him for a while and as much as admitted he cant beat President Obama.

Get ready for Jeb/Condi 2012!

/ and President Obama will get to run against Bush once again...

bdub77: 3) Even if he did, this will never see a court. Ever. On a scale from 1-10 in terms of political crimes, Romney's was a 1. Clinton's was a 3, lying to a grand jury (he got off but still) Bush/Cheney: 7 (war crimes but not like genocide and obviously never seen in a court of law). Aaron Burr murdered a founding father in a duel and was never tried for it. These people never get tried. They are elites, they ARE better than you in terms of prosecution, and there is nothing you can do about it. Everything at that level is plausible deniability. Sure once in a while they throw some guy under the bus, but not a POTUS candidate.

wasn't murder in a duel legal back then?

Iblis824: bdub77: 3) Even if he did, this will never see a court. Ever. On a scale from 1-10 in terms of political crimes, Romney's was a 1. Clinton's was a 3, lying to a grand jury (he got off but still) Bush/Cheney: 7 (war crimes but not like genocide and obviously never seen in a court of law). Aaron Burr murdered a founding father in a duel and was never tried for it. These people never get tried. They are elites, they ARE better than you in terms of prosecution, and there is nothing you can do about it. Everything at that level is plausible deniability. Sure once in a while they throw some guy under the bus, but not a POTUS candidate.

wasn't murder in a duel legal back then?

Not according to this guy

Heraclitus: Yup, the last five months have been a waste. I think the Super PACkers are getting ready to throw Willard under the bus and pull the ol'switcheroo at the last minute with a brokered convention. They have been unhappy with him for a while and as much as admitted he cant beat President Obama.

Get ready for Jeb/Condi 2012!

/ and President Obama will get to run against Bush once again...

The funny thing is that even if they switched Romney out for someone else, the campaign infrastructure, advisers, and key people in any future administration would remain the same.

Ok, so if I got this right Romney claims that he was completely dissociated w/ Bain as of February 1999, but SEC filings through 2001 lists him in various company officer positions and he used his ongoing involvement at Bain in order to establish residency in Mass when he ran for governor. That's an astounding amount of conflicting information.

So he can't run on his record at Bain and he can't run as Mr. Romneycare governor of Massachusetts. Neat.

FooDog: Ok, so if I got this right Romney claims that he was completely dissociated w/ Bain as of February 1999, but SEC filings through 2001 lists him in various company officer positions and he used his ongoing involvement at Bain in order to establish residency in Mass when he ran for governor. That's an astounding amount of conflicting information.

And if you ask questions about any of it, you should apologize because you were rude.

FooDog: Ok, so if I got this right Romney claims that he was completely dissociated w/ Bain as of February 1999, but SEC filings through 2001 lists him in various company officer positions and he used his ongoing involvement at Bain in order to establish residency in Mass when he ran for governor. That's an astounding amount of conflicting information.

Not only outstanding but illegal on the federal AND state levels. If the SEC and Massachusetts file charges against him he's gone from this election. That'll leave a void for the GOP and they'll be forced to run Ron Paul.