Oh FFS.

Yes, but they did it to protect the football program, which the internet has assured me is a perfectly valid reason to aid and abet a child rapist.

Aarontology: Yes, but they did it to protect the football program, which the internet has assured me is a perfectly valid reason to aid and abet a child rapist.

What kind of derped up internet are you readin'?

doglover: Aarontology: Yes, but they did it to protect the football program, which the internet has assured me is a perfectly valid reason to aid and abet a child rapist.

What kind of derped up internet are you readin'?

Your posts.

Paterno should not take a hit for this because he "had no idea how to handle it, he had no training, he had no experience, he didn't know what he was doing. Paterno pushed it off on other people and they totally missed it and totally mishandled it."

WTF?

ace in your face: Paterno should not take a hit for this because he "had no idea how to handle it, he had no training, he had no experience, he didn't know what he was doing. Paterno pushed it off on other people and they totally missed it and totally mishandled it."

WTF?

Paterno's moral compass is so broken he doesn't know how to handle a serial rapist in his locker room? That's called being a sociopath - because I goddamnguarantee you that he would know how to handle it if Sandusky had been molesting his grandkids. And if you know how to deal with it if it's YOUR family, you SHOULD know how to handle it if it's someone else's.

And while I'm at it...

vygramul: ace in your face: Paterno should not take a hit for this because he "had no idea how to handle it, he had no training, he had no experience, he didn't know what he was doing. Paterno pushed it off on other people and they totally missed it and totally mishandled it."

WTF?

Paterno's moral compass is so broken he doesn't know how to handle a serial rapist in his locker room? That's called being a sociopath - because I goddamnguarantee you that he would know how to handle it if Sandusky had been molesting his grandkids. And if you know how to deal with it if it's YOUR family, you SHOULD know how to handle it if it's someone else's.

This.

Who is Bill James, and why do they let a total retard like him onto the radio?

JoePa may as well have been holding those young butt checks apart so his buddy would have easier plowing.

How could he look at sandusky without wanting to punch his farking lights out? I am no ITG, but WTF?

fark is wrong with these people?

Doc_Gerbil: JoePa may as well have been holding those young butt checks apart so his buddy would have easier plowing.

Classy.

FWIW, Bill James, while being a fascinating interview on all things baseball, is kind of weird on any subject other than baseball. I'm not quite sure if he's just a troll or what.

Put those guys in jail, cancel football, close the university, nuke Happy Valley from orbit.

Paterno is getting ass farked by demons in Hell.

How can such a brilliant baseball mind come up with such Herpy Derp?

Now if we can just get whoever keeps greenlighting these to STFU and let it go.

When I go to the ATM machine at night I'm not worried about the media...

I have no idea who you are, Bill James, but I assure you that I hope you die a brutal, torturous, painful, cataclysmic, long death and that your afterlife is spent in the ninth circle of Hell.

Paterno's child sex abuse enabling average is a respectable .326.

kwame: Now if we can just get whoever keeps greenlighting these to STFU and let it go.

Why? Ped State and its fanbase have spent decades lecturing the rest of us about how they do things The Right Way(TM). They deserve every bit of it and more.

This is THAT Bill James? Aw. I liked him.

Joe Pa's WAR (We Absolve Rapes) led the leage for 14 years!

i think he makes a good point. I just drove the getaway car, I didnt rob the bank, it wasnt my fault my accomplice killed the bank manager and two hostages.

RickyWilliams'sBong: kwame: Now if we can just get whoever keeps greenlighting these to STFU and let it go.

Why? Ped State and its fanbase have spent decades lecturing the rest of us about how they do things The Right Way(TM). They deserve every bit of it and more.

Because every person who has ever gone to Penn State, watched a football game, lived in Pennsylvania or heard of Joe Paterno have all signed a double secret blood oath to help spread the evils of child abuse throughout he heartland. I mean, I used to live in State College, and at least twice a year I was called in to help pin down a boy in the shower (as was my duty as a Hapoy Valley resident)

RickyWilliams'sBong: kwame: Now if we can just get whoever keeps greenlighting these to STFU and let it go.

Why? Ped State and its fanbase have spent decades lecturing the rest of us about how they do things The Right Way(TM). They deserve every bit of it and more.

...and we've heard it ad nauseam from all the Farkers who didn't know who Jerry Sandusky was until the story broke. Let it go. Paterno's dead, Sandusky's in jail, and Curley, Schultz, and Spanier will be right behind him (yes, that is a deliberate choice of words). They can't do any more damage, so let it go.

/About the only thing left to do of any significance is take most of JoePa's estate and Sandusky's money, and a big chunk of the Penn State endowment, and hand it over to the victims.

Derwood: I used to live in State College, and at least twice a year I was called in to help pin down a boy in the shower (as was my duty as a Hapoy Valley resident)

You were a volunteer at Second Mile?

I've met Bill James. He's a geek's geek. Brilliant on baseball but a total nonentity on virtually everything else. His recent book on criminals was so full of errors and false conclusions you had to wonder why the publisher let it hit the streets. Oh yeah, it was written by Saint Bill James!

ace in your face: Paterno should not take a hit for this because he "had no idea how to handle it, he had no training, he had no experience, he didn't know what he was doing. Paterno pushed it off on other people and they totally missed it and totally mishandled it."

WTF?

The Buck Stops Someplace Other Than Here.

A tremendously courageous argument, ain't it?

IlGreven: and we've heard it ad nauseam from all the Farkers who didn't know who Jerry Sandusky was until the story broke. Let it go. Paterno's dead, Sandusky's in jail, and Curley, Schultz, and Spanier will be right behind him (yes, that is a deliberate choice of words). They can't do any more damage, so let it go.

If I did know who Sandusky was, am I allowed to keep talking about it? Because I recall his "retirement" in 1999 and subsequent candidacy for the head coaching job at Virginia that ultimately went nowhere.

And even if I didn't know who he was, I'm not going to "let go" of a 14-year cover-up after a few days or months. It doesn't work that way. Joe Paterno was complicit in protecting a child rapist. As long as there are people out there defending him, I'll mention that fact.

Only in America, this great, god-blessed country, could there even be a discussion about football remaining at Penn State. When it comes to protect the children vs. protect the money, money wins every time. We can always make more kids.

Isn't there a large Catholic population in that part of the country?

Um... no. Just no. A Division I head coach has to know how to handle the media. If he doesn't, he learns very quickly, and Paterno was head coach for a very long time. The man used this knowledge to deflect the media, creating TFA's "smokescreen," and used his status as a local culture hero to manipulate others into playing along with it. Why did he do this? Because football.

SisterMaryElephant: Only in America, this great, god-blessed country, could there even be a discussion about football remaining at Penn State. When it comes to protect the children vs. protect the money, money wins every time. We can always make more kids.

Isn't there a large Catholic population in that part of the country?

The money implications go beyond PSU football:

- the 29 other PSU sports that are funded by football
- the other schools who are slated to play PSU
- the dozens of local businesses who rely on football weekends to make their money

I understand the desire to punish the football program, but the collateral damage would be devastating

IlGreven: They can't do any more damage, so let it go.

They can't, but one thing made it all possible that has yet to be dealt with: the overvalued football culture at Penn State. Without this, Paterno could not have risen to culture-hero status, and without that status, the Sandusky smokescreen could not have worked: Paterno would not have been able to get others to help maintain the predator's den. And so this is, ultimately, what must go: tear it down, and let it rebuild in a time and situation where it will never again give people such power. This is even apart from the fact that appropriate punishments take motive into account: this is what they sought to protect, and so this is what they should lose.

This isn't about revenge. Revenge would, at this point, have no meaning: Paterno is dead, as you point out. Justice, on the other hand, doesn't take such technicalities into account: Paterno is dead, but the cult that gave him the power to do what he did remains, and so it must be next to face the axe.

I disagree with a lot that was said, but I do think it's worth pointing out that if the media were the entity in 1998 that it is now, there wouldn't have been a coverup - you think that the initial allegations of molestation wouldn't have gotten at least this much publicity?

I mean, there was a lot of coverage of Bernie Fine (and a bunch of people angry that there wasn't more coverage even though we still don't know if anything actually happened at this point, and it's looking like maybe nothing did). Having two kids talking to cops and parents talking? Yeah, that would've gotten some airplay, insular central Pennsylvania or no.

IlGreven: RickyWilliams'sBong: kwame: Now if we can just get whoever keeps greenlighting these to STFU and let it go.

Why? Ped State and its fanbase have spent decades lecturing the rest of us about how they do things The Right Way(TM). They deserve every bit of it and more.

...and we've heard it ad nauseam from all the Farkers who didn't know who Jerry Sandusky was until the story broke. Let it go. Paterno's dead, Sandusky's in jail, and Curley, Schultz, and Spanier will be right behind him (yes, that is a deliberate choice of words). They can't do any more damage, so let it go.

/About the only thing left to do of any significance is take most of JoePa's estate and Sandusky's money, and a big chunk of the Penn State endowment, and hand it over to the victims.

Right, 1-2 years of free tattoos, 1-2 years of UM players floating dollars off hookers' asses on a boat, 10 years of Reggie Bush's mom, and 20 years of "Free Shoes University" are all fine -- but nine months of ripping on a school for systematically covering up the rape and torture of children for 14 years is too much.

The Cult of JoePa in a nutshell, really.

Derwood: The money implications go beyond PSU football:

- the 29 other PSU sports that are funded by football

Money will be found: hell, given the uptick in PSU donations in the wake of this scandal, one might well be able to find funding there. Or perhaps money won't be found, in which case the school should have set up more robust sources of funding. Sucks to be them.

- the other schools who are slated to play PSU

There are always more opponents. One less will make little difference.

- the dozens of local businesses who rely on football weekends to make their money

They'll live. They'll take a hit, but they won't go under. If a couple do go under, then just as above, they should have found more robust sources of funding.

I understand the desire to punish the football program, but the collateral damage would be devastating

No, it wouldn't, and what there would be is totally acceptable. PSU should have thought of this before covering for a predator.

Derwood: SisterMaryElephant: Only in America, this great, god-blessed country, could there even be a discussion about football remaining at Penn State. When it comes to protect the children vs. protect the money, money wins every time. We can always make more kids.

Isn't there a large Catholic population in that part of the country?

The money implications go beyond PSU football:

- the 29 other PSU sports that are funded by football
- the other schools who are slated to play PSU
- the dozens of local businesses who rely on football weekends to make their money

I understand the desire to punish the football program, but the collateral damage would be devastating

So now PSU Football is Too Big To Fail? It's ok to let one corrupt organization keep its power so other smaller organizations can keep going?

Derwood: SisterMaryElephant: Only in America, this great, god-blessed country, could there even be a discussion about football remaining at Penn State. When it comes to protect the children vs. protect the money, money wins every time. We can always make more kids.

Isn't there a large Catholic population in that part of the country?

The money implications go beyond PSU football:

- the 29 other PSU sports that are funded by football
- the other schools who are slated to play PSU
- the dozens of local businesses who rely on football weekends to make their money

I understand the desire to punish the football program, but the collateral damage would be devastating

And?

Millennium: They can't, but one thing made it all possible that has yet to be dealt with: the overvalued football culture at Penn State.

Which is unlikely to be a threat again because of at least two significant reasons:

1) Incredible news demand and everyone having access to information - the initial coverup would not have been possible nowadays. There were abused children talking to state agencies, even if nothing happened, some bloggers would have picked up on it and you'd better believe people would be interested in knowing if a defensive coordinator for a national power were being investigated for that type of thing. And given how Sandusky has publicly reacted after people KNEW? Oh, shiat, that dude is incapable of covering up for himself if someone is trying to get him in trouble.

2) Much of the reverence stems from the decades of existing at one place, something which does not happen anymore. I guess you can say it's the one good thing that's come out of coaches being for sale and constantly ditching teams for greener pastures every five seasons or so.

Don't worry guys, the Paternos are going to have their own investigation.

Delawheredad: IHis recent book on criminals was so full of errors and false conclusions you had to wonder why the publisher let it hit the streets. Oh yeah, it was written by Saint Bill James!

You know, I'm a true crime buff, I've read that book, and I'm hard pressed to think of anything obviously erroneous I encountered in it. Not that I'm challenging you, but can you give some examples or point to some reviews that contain examples?

(It is a kind of idiosyncratic book, I will admit. It seems odd, for example, that he thinks the best books on the Kennedy assassination are Posner's anti-conspiracy book, and another one arguing that the Secret Service accidentally blew JFK's head off with a negligent discharge from an M-16.)

RickyWilliams'sBong: Right, 1-2 years of free tattoos, 1-2 years of UM players floating dollars off hookers' asses on a boat, 10 years of Reggie Bush's mom, and 20 years of "Free Shoes University" are all fine -- but nine months of ripping on a school for systematically covering up the rape and torture of children for 14 years is too much.

The others are kinda funny situations. There's nothing funny about this.

At least take down "Humanitarian"

Derwood: but the collateral damage would be devastating

The people around Fukushima, or those who weathered the hurricane in New Orleans would like to beat some sense of proportion into you, if you that is your definition of "devastating."

Unauthorized Bratwurst: You know, I'm a true crime buff, I've read that book, and I'm hard pressed to think of anything obviously erroneous I encountered in it. Not that I'm challenging you, but can you give some examples or point to some reviews that contain examples?

me too, please.

This might have been the single dumbest thing I've ever read on this issue. Stick to compiling statistics, Bill James, because when you begin to articulate your viewpoint it all comes out wrong.

CheatCommando: Derwood: but the collateral damage would be devastating

The people around Fukushima, or those who weathered the hurricane in New Orleans would like to beat some sense of proportion into you, if you that is your definition of "devastating."

Yeah, I don't think our great-grandchildren are going to be reading about how the Third Great Depression was caused by some dumpy town in central Pennsyltucky having its football team taken away.

They'll get over it.

RickyWilliams'sBong: CheatCommando: Derwood: but the collateral damage would be devastating

The people around Fukushima, or those who weathered the hurricane in New Orleans would like to beat some sense of proportion into you, if you that is your definition of "devastating."

Yeah, I don't think our great-grandchildren are going to be reading about how the Third Great Depression was caused by some dumpy town in central Pennsyltucky having its football team taken away.

They'll get over it.

And if they don't, tough farking shiat. Take up curling, asshats.

IAmRight: Millennium: They can't, but one thing made it all possible that has yet to be dealt with: the overvalued football culture at Penn State.

Which is unlikely to be a threat again because of at least two significant reasons:

1) Incredible news demand and everyone having access to information - the initial coverup would not have been possible nowadays. There were abused children talking to state agencies, even if nothing happened, some bloggers would have picked up on it and you'd better believe people would be interested in knowing if a defensive coordinator for a national power were being investigated for that type of thing. And given how Sandusky has publicly reacted after people KNEW? Oh, shiat, that dude is incapable of covering up for himself if someone is trying to get him in trouble.

If New Media is so powerful, then why did this story take so long to break? The things you talk about have been around for years, yet nothing happened. The bloggers are not Big Brother: they are not omnipresent, always watching, and because that is true, things can be hidden even from them. When you have a culture hero (like, say, Joe Paterno) pulling strings, even the local bloggers can be suborned, as undoubtedly happened in at least some cases here.

This is why consequences must be real: not mere dips in reputation or threat of exposure. These things can be weathered or even averted completely, if you have the right PR. A death penalty is much harder to shrug off.

2) Much of the reverence stems from the decades of existing at one place, something which does not happen anymore.

Certainly it could, especially if a coach had a reason to stay: for example, maintaining a cover-up of a crime. Turning down better offers would even boost such a coach's esteem in the eyes of the people around him, increasing his power and making him better able to maintain the cover-up.

When Gottlieb challenged James, saying that Paterno had the most power of anyone in State College, James bristled, calling that "total nonsense."

"He had very few allies," James said of Paterno. "He was isolated and he was not nearly as powerful as people imagine him to have been and he had poor sources."

Riiiiiight