Should have the tag; Obama got to her too.

Clearly, her mind has been twisted by the Canadian Agenda. She's lived with them, ate with them and sinned with them. She's now an agent provocateur.

Funny how easily anti-abortion sentiment can be rationalized away. Just offer free health care.

Hey, THAT's Obama's nefarious plan!

Bob_Laublaw: Clearly, her mind has been twisted by the Canadian Agenda. She's lived with them, ate with them and sinned with them. She's now an agent provocateur.

You fiends! You lured her with poutine, then got her addicted to maple syrup and reasonable health care!

It's so cute when a Republican suddenly realizes the right-wing media has been lying to them their whole lives and their most-deeply held "truths" are lies.

St_Francis_P: Bob_Laublaw: Clearly, her mind has been twisted by the Canadian Agenda. She's lived with them, ate with them and sinned with them. She's now an agent provocateur.

You fiends! You lured her with poutine, then got her addicted to maple syrup and reasonable health care!

One of us!
One of us!

Yet another Republican incapable of approving of anything they don't personally experience.

. Many Americans genuinely can't fathom why the rest of the First World is alarmed not just by our cavalier, profit-centered approach to care, but that so many of our citizens line up to chant for the right to be farked over by that same system. We cheerfully rail against provisions for our own health, whether it be to job loss, poverty (but not too poor), or far more common - an insurance policy so convoluted that it's hard to to tell what is covered and what isn't.

Seriously, we fight every day for an utterly failed, laughing-stock system. We take pride in it. We invoke our Founding Fathers, for some reason. We bleat about "death panels" while completely ignoring just what it is insurance actuaries arbitrarily do as haphazardly as confetti lands. For some reason we think the idea of an insurance company being more regulated for the individual American's benefit is a full-on affront to our Freedom^tm.

Health care and "freedom" should never be argued in the same sentence. The two have nothing to do with each other. Canadians are pretty free, aren't they? And they don't go bankrupt when they get injured or sick. America's hat does just fine, all things considered, but we're too myopic to even consider their methods and have a rational conversation about the appalling state of health care in America. ACA will do, for now. But we're going to have to revisit this issue eventually.

Again we see the inherent deficit in right wing thinking - they are literally incapable of considering the impact of something until it personally affects them.

GAT_00: Yet another Republican incapable of approving of anything they don't personally experience.

Give them SOME credit. A ton of them are trying out the whole homosexuality thing.

GAT_00: Yet another Republican incapable of approving of anything they don't personally experience.

Denial is a hard thing to overcome, especially when it's a pre-existing condition.

GAT_00: Yet another Republican incapable of approving of anything they don't personally experience.

That's the thing that I think pisses me off the most about these willfully ignorant assholes. Facts don't matter. Proof doesn't matter. You can beat them with statistics, information and every damn thing pointing out the reality of a situation, and they will insist "it doesn't matter so long as I 'believe' or 'feel' it's wrong."

You can't teach these idiots anything, and people who can't or refuse to learn are a dead, freakin weight dragging our society into the shiat-splattered pits of their own screeching stupidity.

So, yeah. Glad she found health care. It's just unfortunate that this pathetic, precious princess had to waste all that time barking and howling and broadcasting her mental shortcomings to the planet when she could have been learning a rather simple freakin' thing.

Vodka Zombie: That's the thing that I think pisses me off the most about these willfully ignorant assholes. Facts don't matter. Proof doesn't matter. You can beat them with statistics, information and every damn thing pointing out the reality of a situation, and they will insist "it doesn't matter so long as I 'believe' or 'feel' it's wrong."

Which is why I never have any respect for them once they change their mind.

GAT_00: Vodka Zombie: That's the thing that I think pisses me off the most about these willfully ignorant assholes. Facts don't matter. Proof doesn't matter. You can beat them with statistics, information and every damn thing pointing out the reality of a situation, and they will insist "it doesn't matter so long as I 'believe' or 'feel' it's wrong."

Which is why I never have any respect for them once they change their mind.

I will respect those with the ability to grow, as long as they continue on that path.

dickfreckle: .
Health care and "freedom" should never be argued in the same sentence. The two have nothing to do with each other. Canadians are pretty free, aren't they? And they don't go bankrupt when they get injured or sick. America's hat does just fine, all things considered, but we're too myopic to even consider their methods and have a rational conversation about the appalling state of health care in America.

As a Canadian, I would argue more free. The 'safety net' allowed me to quit my job years ago to become self employed. My wife was employed so her work coverage filled in the blanks where medicare falls short (dental, eyewear, some prescriptions). But access to healthcare never weighed in that decision. Now I'm yet another job creator.

Doesn't calling your own shots and having full flexibility with your time sound an awful lot like freedom?

give her credit. once she found it was not as she was told by fox news or other right wing media , she changed her mind. I respect that.

/Education: curing republicans for 100's of years

What I found interesting is the idea that restricting options (abortion, birth control) for people is somehow equated to "freedom". I don't get how they can think that. You don't like abortion? Don't get one. but don't sit there and tell people that outlawing it is somehow a victory for "freedom". it's not.

GAT_00: Vodka Zombie: That's the thing that I think pisses me off the most about these willfully ignorant assholes. Facts don't matter. Proof doesn't matter. You can beat them with statistics, information and every damn thing pointing out the reality of a situation, and they will insist "it doesn't matter so long as I 'believe' or 'feel' it's wrong."

Which is why I never have any respect for them once they change their mind.

This seems a less than constructive attitude. "You're not helping" and all that...

DrBenway: GAT_00: Vodka Zombie: That's the thing that I think pisses me off the most about these willfully ignorant assholes. Facts don't matter. Proof doesn't matter. You can beat them with statistics, information and every damn thing pointing out the reality of a situation, and they will insist "it doesn't matter so long as I 'believe' or 'feel' it's wrong."

Which is why I never have any respect for them once they change their mind.

This seems a less than constructive attitude. "You're not helping" and all that...

They aren't helping either. These people are incapable of thinking outside their own experiences, and those aren't the people who need involved at all.

Well next thing she'll be telling us that she's changed her mind about childrens' right to concealed-carry assault rifles in their home-school!

GAT_00: DrBenway: GAT_00: Vodka Zombie: That's the thing that I think pisses me off the most about these willfully ignorant assholes. Facts don't matter. Proof doesn't matter. You can beat them with statistics, information and every damn thing pointing out the reality of a situation, and they will insist "it doesn't matter so long as I 'believe' or 'feel' it's wrong."

Which is why I never have any respect for them once they change their mind.

This seems a less than constructive attitude. "You're not helping" and all that...

They aren't helping either. These people are incapable of thinking outside their own experiences, and those aren't the people who need involved at all.

So you're advocating dropping down to their level? Again, it doesn't seem a very progressive attitude. Look at it this way: if they're going to listen to anyone under any circumstance (rather than depending strictly upon their experiences), isn't it more likely to be one of their own they might pay attention to? I can't see how you do anything to advance things one bit if you insist on throwing rocks at the rare person who steps up and says "I was wrong and here's why." I need help, I suppose, in seeing why it's a bad thing to encourage this.

After I graduate college, I'm moving to Europe or Canada, 'nuff said.

Ambivalence: What I found interesting is the idea that restricting options (abortion, birth control) for people is somehow equated to "freedom". I don't get how they can think that. You don't like abortion? Don't get one. but don't sit there and tell people that outlawing it is somehow a victory for "freedom". it's not.

Growing up with Republican parents, this was the one issue they took a libertarian stance on, and possibly planted the seed for me eventually leaving the party when I came of age, because I realized they are way too crazy about controlling everyone's ability to make their own decisions as per that abortion thing.

DrBenway: So you're advocating dropping down to their level?

I'm just ignoring them.

How she feels is irrelevant. She must kowtow to the Party and oppose anything the other party favors.

GAT_00: Yet another Republican incapable of approving of anything they don't personally experience.

Indeed.

...she fixes the cable?

Just imagine how many people in this country will finally get that experience too now that Obama has passed single payer coverage!

from the Parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus:

"....Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue! For I am in anguish in this flame."

But Abraham said, "Son, remember that you, in your lifetime, received your good things, and Lazarus, in the same way, bad things. But now here he is comforted and you are in anguish. Besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, that those who want to pass from here to you are not able, and that none may cross over from there to us."

He said, "I ask you therefore, father, that you would send [Lazarus] to my father's house; for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, so they won't also come into this place of torment."

But Abraham said to him, "They have Moses and the prophets. Let them listen to them."

He said, "No, father Abraham, but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent."

[Abraham] said to him, "If they don't listen to Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded if one rises from the dead."

unyon: The 'safety net' allowed me to quit my job years ago to become self employed. My wife was employed so her work coverage filled in the blanks where medicare falls short (dental, eyewear, some prescriptions).

This is a point that is far too often overlooked. Many people aren't capable of starting their own business (or self-employment) because of the enormous hurdle of having to pay for their own health insurance. By lowering the costs, the ACA will allow for more opportunities for small businesses and self-employment, which in turn will help our economy grow.

Tex Colorado the Arizona Assassin: It's so cute when a Republican suddenly realizes the right-wing media has been lying to them their whole lives and their most-deeply held "truths" are lies.

'I was horrified that they included abortion on the list of options, and fact that the pamphlet was so balanced instead of "pro-life." '

She was HORRIFIED that it was balanced????? How farked up do you need to be to be horrified of fairness?
I loved that she didnt have healthcare in the US but was against universal healthcare. FFS.

The only moral health care is their health care.

Kittypie070: [Abraham] said to him, "If they don't listen to Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded if one rises from the dead."

Dunno. You got a zombie preaching at you, that's a thing you're bound to remember.

namatad: How farked up do you need to be to be horrified of fairness?

You need to be a Christian.

This is terribly confusing! One day I read about the horrors of the British Universal Health Care system and the next I find out about the Glorious System of Care that IS the Canadian Universal Health Care program.

In the dim shadows of my memories from back when I was a kid, I recall the US as being touted for having the best health care system in the world and recall when needed medication did not require one to mortgage their home.

It seems as if I blinked and things horribly changed.

Tell me true: do the Canadians sue the pi$$ out of their doctors, hospitals, medical equipment makers and workers as we do here in the US if they even fart wrong? Did they have a period of time in the last forty years where they churned out more lawyers than doctors because being a lawyer and making gobs of money was quicker and easier than becoming a Dr.?

Do they have the same amount of absolute morons who firmly believe that vaccination against disease is an evil thing which will, in one way or another, bring about the four horsemen of the apocalypse?

I even recall at one time when hospitals had ample staff, no budget cuts, no forcing employees to do the work of two people for the pay of one and local governments did not even consider their hospitals among the first things to have their budgets slashed during the slightest economic wobble.

Actually, the city leaders would slash their own pay first, before even considering the hospital.

I must know. I want to know. How can I make an informed decision if the data I get keeps changing?

Is it bad that that I dislike this self-important dolt for demanding a midwife and I think less of the Canadian healthcare system for paying for it?

GAT_00: namatad: How farked up do you need to be to be horrified of fairness?

You need to be a Christian.

Neither one of you is taking the quote in context.

That was the initial thought she had before experiencing first hand, and likely for the first time in her life, all options presented without bias, and she goes on to illustrate a whole lotta growth through access to the type of information she was denied in the vacuum from which she was freed.

Rik01: because being a lawyer and making gobs of money was quicker and easier than becoming a Dr.?

You might want to look at employment rates for law school grads before saying that.

Rik01: It seems as if I blinked and things horribly changed.

You blinked and missed the 80's, apparently. Start in 1982, observe what happened at that point, and just watch it all roll forward. Or trickle down, depending on how you see it.

I'm happy that she was able to break her brainwashing. I'm worried about the people who can't, and the people who don't want to.

Read the whole thing.

No shiat Sherlock.

unyon: dickfreckle: .
Health care and "freedom" should never be argued in the same sentence. The two have nothing to do with each other. Canadians are pretty free, aren't they? And they don't go bankrupt when they get injured or sick. America's hat does just fine, all things considered, but we're too myopic to even consider their methods and have a rational conversation about the appalling state of health care in America.

As a Canadian, I would argue more free. The 'safety net' allowed me to quit my job years ago to become self employed. My wife was employed so her work coverage filled in the blanks where medicare falls short (dental, eyewear, some prescriptions). But access to healthcare never weighed in that decision. Now I'm yet another job creator.

Doesn't calling your own shots and having full flexibility with your time sound an awful lot like freedom?

Economic freedom for the proles is not something that is discussed in the American media.

It is reserved for the ruling class only.

Well, good for her.

Still wrong, though.

dickfreckle: Many Americans genuinely can't fathom why the rest of the First World is alarmed not just by our cavalier, profit-centered approach to care, but that so many of our citizens line up to chant for the right to be farked over by that same system.

Easy. We've been lied to. We've been told that America has the world's best healthcare system. That may be true for the truly rich, but for the rest of us...no, it's not as good as many other countries.

Smug Sneering Lernaeus 2012-07-22 09:11:47 PM

Well, good for her.

Still wrong, though.

Ya know, I'm not even gonna bother to ask you "What do you think is wrong?" or "Why?"

Rik01: Tell me true: do the Canadians sue the pi$$ out of their doctors, hospitals, medical equipment makers and workers as we do here in the US if they even fart wrong?

This really is a myth. In reality it is difficult to sue doctors, hospitals, medical equipment makers, etc. Many states have already enacted so called "tort reform" and the result has been no decrease in the cost of health care. All it has done is make it more difficult to sue in cases where it is justified.

What the fark is a "conservative naturopathic physician"? I'm guessing "chickenhawk with wealthy parents who wasn't bright enough for med school during Vietnam".

Rik01: This is terribly confusing! One day I read about the horrors of the British Universal Health Care system and the next I find out about the Glorious System of Care that IS the Canadian Universal Health Care program.

In the dim shadows of my memories from back when I was a kid, I recall the US as being touted for having the best health care system in the world and recall when needed medication did not require one to mortgage their home.

It seems as if I blinked and things horribly changed.

Tell me true: do the Canadians sue the pi$$ out of their doctors, hospitals, medical equipment makers and workers as we do here in the US if they even fart wrong? Did they have a period of time in the last forty years where they churned out more lawyers than doctors because being a lawyer and making gobs of money was quicker and easier than becoming a Dr.?

Do they have the same amount of absolute morons who firmly believe that vaccination against disease is an evil thing which will, in one way or another, bring about the four horsemen of the apocalypse?

I even recall at one time when hospitals had ample staff, no budget cuts, no forcing employees to do the work of two people for the pay of one and local governments did not even consider their hospitals among the first things to have their budgets slashed during the slightest economic wobble.

Actually, the city leaders would slash their own pay first, before even considering the hospital.

I must know. I want to know. How can I make an informed decision if the data I get keeps changing?

That America was dead before I was born. And I'm closer to 30 than 20. :(

Bah, I'm finding it incredibly difficult to immigrate to a country with universal healthcare and a generous attitude towards family and work/family time ratios. I keep hoping that one day I can seek asylum because my government willfully harms its populace by withholding basic human necessities such as equal access to health care and even the most minimal standards of housing, food, and education. Do any first world countries really teach creationism in science class? I could even cite the recent legislation about women's health care to prove that my government wants to harm me and limit my choices simply because I am a woman.

calm like a bomb: What the fark is a "conservative naturopathic physician"? I'm guessing "chickenhawk with wealthy parents who wasn't bright enough for med school during Vietnam".

Probably a DO (doctor of osteopathic medicine). A lot of people who don't get the scores to get into medical school go that route. They learn most of the same stuff as MDs do, but also a bunch of "holistic" horseshiat.