But he neglects to mention that Cerf's early work on the protocol was funded by the US military through its DARPA program.

The US military is the good part of the government, though.

The Internet was built by free market capitalists without a dime of government money! And they didn't build it so that colleges and military installations could communicate. No, they would never focus their energies on something so trite and mundane. They built the Internet so that they could profit off of it, the only reason to do anything.

a = the web
A = the internet

a ∈ A, but a ≠ A

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ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha: a = the web
A = the internet

a ∈ A, but a ≠ A

Tim Berners-Lee would like a word with you.

Pocket Ninja: But he neglects to mention that Cerf's early work on the protocol was funded by the US military through its DARPA program.

The US military is the good part of the government, though.

I have had several red neck types tell me that the military isn't part of the government. If you ask them what it is it's "the military" but isn't not part of the government. Government is bad and the military is good so it can't be connected with the government. I think they think it is some sort of church or NGO pr something.

t3knomanser: The Internet was built by free market capitalists without a dime of government money! And they didn't build it so that colleges and military installations could communicate. No, they would never focus their energies on something so trite and mundane. They built the Internet so that they could profit off of it, the only reason to do anything.

But... but... AL GORE!!11!!!!

/sarcasm

Who farking cares? It's the Wall Street Journal. It's just another bastion of Republican stupidity. It's barely different than Townhall, just slightly better written.

We don't take Townhall seriously. Why would we take the WSJ seriously?

DeltaPunch:

Those guys were everywhere in Earthbound.

...and almost all of the salaries for all of the people that did the work of building the internet we have today were deducted through R&D tax credits. Including my own. Even when it's the private sector, it's a whole lot of public sector money.

The internet is good, therefore by definition it was not created byt he government. QED, libs. Q E farking D.

GAT_00: Who farking cares? It's the Wall Street Journal. It's just another bastion of Republican stupidity. It's barely different than Townhall, just slightly better written.

We don't take Townhall seriously. Why would we take the WSJ seriously?

this

t3knomanser: The Internet was built by free market capitalists without a dime of government money! And they didn't build it so that colleges and military installations could communicate. No, they would never focus their energies on something so trite and mundane. They built the Internet so that they could profit off of it, the only reason to do anything.

Alternatively: Just think of how much faster and better the private sector could have built the Internet, if only the federal government hadn't taxed away all their money!

cameroncrazy1984: ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha: a = the web
A = the internet

a ∈ A, but a ≠ A

Tim Berners-Lee would like a word with you.

Zombie Jon Postel would solicit comments about kicking his ass.

Most people don't understand the internet, so it's easy to lie to them about it.

What was that CSI about hacking a GUI or something? Ah, found it!

Tim Berners-Lee gets credit for hyperlinks

Funny, I seem to remember using the internet, or at least BBS's a few years before I opened my first web page. I know this because I remember playing some BBS game in a room all by myself. If the web had existed then, I'm fairly sure I would have been jerking off instead.

The Wall Street Journal has earnedused to have a reputation for producing in-depth and meticulously fact-checked news coverage. Unfortunately, it doesn't always apply that same high standard of quality to their editorial page it was bought by Newscorp.


FTFY

1) Private enterprise built the internet, therefore no one should have to pay taxes.
2) Public money funded a lot of research that made the internet possible, therefore rich people should be lined up and shot.

These are the things that various idiots actually believe.

This isn't a difficult thing to figure out. Parts of the internet infrastructure were built by government or built by private individuals with government backing. However, when the internet was limited to only those projects that were funded by the government, it was greatly underutilized. It was little used outside of government and academic circles, and was unreachable (and useless) to the population at large. It wasn't until the government created infrastructure was opened up to additional private investment that we got the internet as we know it today, and no one really argues that it ever would have become what it is had it been left solely to the government and academic institutions to run the whole thing.

It's analogous to roads. The interstate highway system was financed largely by the federal government, with contributions from state and local governments. The government's main goal in building the interstate system was to ensure that military equipment could be moved efficiently from one coast to another. But it's the use of that infrastructure by private business to engage in commerce that makes that interstate highway system a valuable piece of the economy. Of course the system might not exist without government funding, but it would be worthless without the private investment to utilize that infrastructure that followed.

It doesn't matter who invented the Internet.
Porn made it work.

rohar: ...and almost all of the salaries for all of the people that did the work of building the internet we have today were deducted through R&D tax credits. Including my own. Even when it's the private sector, it's a whole lot of public sector money.

Yes, exactly. And quite a lot of funding would have been via defense spending, because a lot of the research took place for the DoD, or very likely NSF-funded research grants, when it occurred at places like Stanford or CERN. I don't have a tally of all the cash that went into the development of every technological discovery or innovation that culminated in today's internet, but claiming "Xerox did internets" is frankly, ridiculous.

Really right wing shiatheads? You don't even understand the difference between the Internet and the World Wide Web?

This is the right-wing's newest craze: Making sure that everything in history is either attributed to private interests or denying the influence of government.

For instance:

"We as Americans can no longer expect and/or depend on government funding in many fields, specifically the visual arts. For God's sake, we conquered the West, rebuilt from a Great Depression, and especially in this city (Charleston, SC), survived a devastating Civil War."

Yep. That's right. Charleston, SC survived the Civil War without any help from the Federal Government.

mat catastrophe: This is the right-wing's newest craze: Making sure that everything in history is either attributed to private interests or denying the influence of government.

For instance:

"We as Americans can no longer expect and/or depend on government funding in many fields, specifically the visual arts. For God's sake, we conquered the West, rebuilt from a Great Depression, and especially in this city (Charleston, SC), survived a devastating Civil War."

Yep. That's right. Charleston, SC survived the Civil War without any help from the Federal Government.

And of course, rebuilding from the Great Depression was in no way in part to the Federal Government dictating to the private industry what they need to be producing, in case some sort of nuisance from overseas...

Talondel: This isn't a difficult thing to figure out. Parts of the internet infrastructure were built by government or built by private individuals with government backing. However, when the internet was limited to only those projects that were funded by the government, it was greatly underutilized. It was little used outside of government and academic circles, and was unreachable (and useless) to the population at large. It wasn't until the government created infrastructure was opened up to additional private investment that we got the internet as we know it today, and no one really argues that it ever would have become what it is had it been left solely to the government and academic institutions to run the whole thing.

It's analogous to roads. The interstate highway system was financed largely by the federal government, with contributions from state and local governments. The government's main goal in building the interstate system was to ensure that military equipment could be moved efficiently from one coast to another. But it's the use of that infrastructure by private business to engage in commerce that makes that interstate highway system a valuable piece of the economy. Of course the system might not exist without government funding, but it would be worthless without the private investment to utilize that infrastructure that followed.

But at the same time, neither the internet nor the interstate system would exist if it weren't for government developing them in the first place. It's almost as if you can't count on any pure -ism to give you the best results.

What bending over backward might look like:

mat catastrophe: This is the right-wing's newest craze: Making sure that everything in history is either attributed to private interests or denying the influence of government.

For instance:

"We as Americans can no longer expect and/or depend on government funding in many fields, specifically the visual arts. For God's sake, we conquered the West, rebuilt from a Great Depression, and especially in this city (Charleston, SC), survived a devastating Civil War."

Yep. That's right. Charleston, SC survived the Civil War without any help from the Federal Government.

Next up: bootstrappy Six Companies Inc. built this without any help from the Federal Government.

YoungSwedishBlonde: mat catastrophe: This is the right-wing's newest craze: Making sure that everything in history is either attributed to private interests or denying the influence of government.

For instance:

"We as Americans can no longer expect and/or depend on government funding in many fields, specifically the visual arts. For God's sake, we conquered the West, rebuilt from a Great Depression, and especially in this city (Charleston, SC), survived a devastating Civil War."

Yep. That's right. Charleston, SC survived the Civil War without any help from the Federal Government.

And of course, rebuilding from the Great Depression was in no way in part to the Federal Government dictating to the private industry what they need to be producing, in case some sort of nuisance from overseas...

And of course, "conquering the West" had absolutely nothing to with the U.S. Cavalry putting the saber to hostile Native American tribes attacking white settlers.

paygun: 1) Private enterprise built the internet, therefore no one should have to pay taxes.
2) Public money funded a lot of research that made the internet possible, therefore rich people should be lined up and shot.

These are the things that various idiots actually believe.

Do you have a degree? Is your name on the diploma?

You did not earn that. There are allot of smart, hardworking people

Did you aquire the interview skills to get a job in your field.

You did not do that either, you had someone help you, you did not do it on your own. Someone else built the roads and the university and the place you work. You don't get to take credit for that.

YoungSwedishBlonde: mat catastrophe: This is the right-wing's newest craze: Making sure that everything in history is either attributed to private interests or denying the influence of government.

For instance:

"We as Americans can no longer expect and/or depend on government funding in many fields, specifically the visual arts. For God's sake, we conquered the West, rebuilt from a Great Depression, and especially in this city (Charleston, SC), survived a devastating Civil War."

Yep. That's right. Charleston, SC survived the Civil War without any help from the Federal Government.

And of course, rebuilding from the Great Depression was in no way in part to the Federal Government dictating to the private industry what they need to be producing, in case some sort of nuisance from overseas...

Don't forget Federal dredging projects that keep the harbor a going concern.

pxsteel: paygun: 1) Private enterprise built the internet, therefore no one should have to pay taxes.
2) Public money funded a lot of research that made the internet possible, therefore rich people should be lined up and shot.

These are the things that various idiots actually believe.

Do you have a degree? Is your name on the diploma?

You did not earn that. There are allot of smart, hardworking people

Did you aquire the interview skills to get a job in your field.

You did not do that either, you had someone help you, you did not do it on your own. Someone else built the roads and the university and the place you work. You don't get to take credit for that.

What a weird position to have. Good thing President Obama doesn't agree with you.

pxsteel: paygun: 1) Private enterprise built the internet, therefore no one should have to pay taxes.
2) Public money funded a lot of research that made the internet possible, therefore rich people should be lined up and shot.

These are the things that various idiots actually believe.

Do you have a degree? Is your name on the diploma?

You did not earn that. There are allot of smart, hardworking people

Did you aquire the interview skills to get a job in your field.

You did not do that either, you had someone help you, you did not do it on your own. Someone else built the roads and the university and the place you work. You don't get to take credit for that.

Yeah the teachers you had don't deserve the smallest amount of credit for what you learned in college. You deduced it all on your own from first principals.

Karac: Tim Berners-Lee gets credit for hyperlinks

Funny, I seem to remember using the internet, or at least BBS's a few years before I opened my first web page. I know this because I remember playing some BBS game in a room all by myself. If the web had existed then, I'm fairly sure I would have been jerking off instead.

RIPscript! (Resistance is Futile!) OneBBSCon

/yes, I just dated myself

ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha: a = the web
A = the internet

a ∈ A, but a ≠ A

Let's pretend they were. The government STILL invented "The Internet*", see Mosaic via NCSA. Which by the way was better than both Netscape and Internet Explorer when the government decided the free market could take it from there. In to that vacuume of leadership, came Active X.

It's hilarious watching Newscorp shiat all over the WSJ. Normally, they're pretty terrible, but this time they're even worse than "Not even wrong."

*As understood by the drooling hacks at the Wall Street Journal.

This article is the single biggest outrage since Steve Jobs single-handedly took Omaha beach during Mt. Dew Presents: The Battle of Normandy: Thirst Invasion '44.

cameroncrazy1984: ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha: a = the web
A = the internet

a ∈ A, but a ≠ A

Tim Berners-Lee would like a word with you.

I don't think he thinks the internet and the web are the same thing, either.

Philip Francis Queeg: pxsteel: paygun: 1) Private enterprise built the internet, therefore no one should have to pay taxes.
2) Public money funded a lot of research that made the internet possible, therefore rich people should be lined up and shot.

These are the things that various idiots actually believe.

Do you have a degree? Is your name on the diploma?

You did not earn that. There are allot of smart, hardworking people

Did you aquire the interview skills to get a job in your field.

You did not do that either, you had someone help you, you did not do it on your own. Someone else built the roads and the university and the place you work. You don't get to take credit for that.

Yeah the teachers you had don't deserve the smallest amount of credit for what you learned in college. You deduced it all on your own from first principals.

So the gov deserves a bigger chunk of my paycheck? Most of my professors only taught because they were required too. They were much more interested in their research. My education is a byproduct of the real work of the University, Research and Science.

crab66: The Wall Street Journal has earnedused to have a reputation for producing in-depth and meticulously fact-checked news coverage. Unfortunately, it doesn't always apply that same high standard of quality to their editorial page it was bought by Newscorp.


FTFY

This cannot be overstated. The WSJ used to be a really interesting paper. One that (along with the NYT) was required reading. Now it is pretty much the New York Post with less pictures.

pxsteel: Philip Francis Queeg: pxsteel: paygun: 1) Private enterprise built the internet, therefore no one should have to pay taxes.
2) Public money funded a lot of research that made the internet possible, therefore rich people should be lined up and shot.

These are the things that various idiots actually believe.

Do you have a degree? Is your name on the diploma?

You did not earn that. There are allot of smart, hardworking people

Did you aquire the interview skills to get a job in your field.

You did not do that either, you had someone help you, you did not do it on your own. Someone else built the roads and the university and the place you work. You don't get to take credit for that.

Yeah the teachers you had don't deserve the smallest amount of credit for what you learned in college. You deduced it all on your own from first principals.

So the gov deserves a bigger chunk of my paycheck? Most of my professors only taught because they were required too. They were much more interested in their research. My education is a byproduct of the real work of the University, Research and Science.

And the majority of that research was paid for by the government. Fun circular issue isn't it?

pxsteel: Philip Francis Queeg: pxsteel: paygun: 1) Private enterprise built the internet, therefore no one should have to pay taxes.
2) Public money funded a lot of research that made the internet possible, therefore rich people should be lined up and shot.

These are the things that various idiots actually believe.

Do you have a degree? Is your name on the diploma?

You did not earn that. There are allot of smart, hardworking people

Did you aquire the interview skills to get a job in your field.

You did not do that either, you had someone help you, you did not do it on your own. Someone else built the roads and the university and the place you work. You don't get to take credit for that.

Yeah the teachers you had don't deserve the smallest amount of credit for what you learned in college. You deduced it all on your own from first principals.

So the gov deserves a bigger chunk of my paycheck? Most of my professors only taught because they were required too. They were much more interested in their research. My education is a byproduct of the real work of the University, Research and Science.

I see you lack the critical thinking necessary to acknowledge the fact that you have society to thank for a good portion of your success. Might wanna go back and take some remedial courses.

pxsteel: Philip Francis Queeg: pxsteel: paygun: 1) Private enterprise built the internet, therefore no one should have to pay taxes.
2) Public money funded a lot of research that made the internet possible, therefore rich people should be lined up and shot.

These are the things that various idiots actually believe.

Do you have a degree? Is your name on the diploma?

You did not earn that. There are allot of smart, hardworking people

Did you aquire the interview skills to get a job in your field.

You did not do that either, you had someone help you, you did not do it on your own. Someone else built the roads and the university and the place you work. You don't get to take credit for that.

Yeah the teachers you had don't deserve the smallest amount of credit for what you learned in college. You deduced it all on your own from first principals.

So the gov deserves a bigger chunk of my paycheck? Most of my professors only taught because they were required too. They were much more interested in their research. My education is a byproduct of the real work of the University, Research and Science.

If it costs a bigger chunk of your paycheck to pay for the educational system you benefited from, absolutely. Why shouldn't you pay for it? You must be one of those people Romney was talking about who want free stuff all the time.

pxsteel: So the gov deserves a bigger chunk of my paycheck? Most of my professors only taught because they were required too. They were much more interested in their research. My education is a byproduct of the real work of the University, Research and Science.

Which was funded by a consortium of private industry and government grants. You also probably received government grants, government subsidized loans, or preferential rates on student loans because the government backed them. Keep telling yourself that you did it all on your own though.

So, now we have to break-out the OSI model and take it from the top.... or bottom.

Eshman: pxsteel: Philip Francis Queeg: pxsteel: paygun: 1) Private enterprise built the internet, therefore no one should have to pay taxes.
2) Public money funded a lot of research that made the internet possible, therefore rich people should be lined up and shot.

These are the things that various idiots actually believe.

Do you have a degree? Is your name on the diploma?

You did not earn that. There are allot of smart, hardworking people

Did you aquire the interview skills to get a job in your field.

You did not do that either, you had someone help you, you did not do it on your own. Someone else built the roads and the university and the place you work. You don't get to take credit for that.

Yeah the teachers you had don't deserve the smallest amount of credit for what you learned in college. You deduced it all on your own from first principals.

So the gov deserves a bigger chunk of my paycheck? Most of my professors only taught because they were required too. They were much more interested in their research. My education is a byproduct of the real work of the University, Research and Science.

I see you lack the critical thinking necessary to acknowledge the fact that you have society to thank for a good portion of your success. Might wanna go back and take some remedial courses.

Society was already in place when I graduated high school in 84. Everyone I graduated with, regardless of color or sex, pretty much had the same shot. My dad was a grunt in the army, lower middle class to middle class at best, no silver spoon here. Some of my classmates were successful some were not. A couple were lucky but the vast majority that are successful, worked for it.

pxsteel: Eshman: pxsteel: Philip Francis Queeg: pxsteel: paygun: 1) Private enterprise built the internet, therefore no one should have to pay taxes.
2) Public money funded a lot of research that made the internet possible, therefore rich people should be lined up and shot.

These are the things that various idiots actually believe.

Do you have a degree? Is your name on the diploma?

You did not earn that. There are allot of smart, hardworking people

Did you aquire the interview skills to get a job in your field.

You did not do that either, you had someone help you, you did not do it on your own. Someone else built the roads and the university and the place you work. You don't get to take credit for that.

Yeah the teachers you had don't deserve the smallest amount of credit for what you learned in college. You deduced it all on your own from first principals.

So the gov deserves a bigger chunk of my paycheck? Most of my professors only taught because they were required too. They were much more interested in their research. My education is a byproduct of the real work of the University, Research and Science.

I see you lack the critical thinking necessary to acknowledge the fact that you have society to thank for a good portion of your success. Might wanna go back and take some remedial courses.

Society was already in place when I graduated high school in 84. Everyone I graduated with, regardless of color or sex, pretty much had the same shot. My dad was a grunt in the army, lower middle class to middle class at best, no silver spoon here. Some of my classmates were successful some were not. A couple were lucky but the vast majority that are successful, worked for it.



You didn't work for it in a vacuum.

pxsteel: Eshman: pxsteel: Philip Francis Queeg: pxsteel: paygun: 1) Private enterprise built the internet, therefore no one should have to pay taxes.
2) Public money funded a lot of research that made the internet possible, therefore rich people should be lined up and shot.

These are the things that various idiots actually believe.

Do you have a degree? Is your name on the diploma?

You did not earn that. There are allot of smart, hardworking people

Did you aquire the interview skills to get a job in your field.

You did not do that either, you had someone help you, you did not do it on your own. Someone else built the roads and the university and the place you work. You don't get to take credit for that.

Yeah the teachers you had don't deserve the smallest amount of credit for what you learned in college. You deduced it all on your own from first principals.

So the gov deserves a bigger chunk of my paycheck? Most of my professors only taught because they were required too. They were much more interested in their research. My education is a byproduct of the real work of the University, Research and Science.

I see you lack the critical thinking necessary to acknowledge the fact that you have society to thank for a good portion of your success. Might wanna go back and take some remedial courses.

Society was already in place when I graduated high school in 84. Everyone I graduated with, regardless of color or sex, pretty much had the same shot. My dad was a grunt in the army, lower middle class to middle class at best, no silver spoon here. Some of my classmates were successful some were not. A couple were lucky but the vast majority that are successful, worked for it.

Yes they did, that doesn't change the fact that all of the research you were touting before was covered by R&D tax credits. I work damned hard, it puts a hell of a roof over my head, I know my salary is covered by those same credits so I know where my bread is buttered. The same is true of any innovative designer (software or hardware) involved with the internet or anything else.

dlp211: pxsteel: So the gov deserves a bigger chunk of my paycheck? Most of my professors only taught because they were required too. They were much more interested in their research. My education is a byproduct of the real work of the University, Research and Science.

Which was funded by a consortium of private industry and government grants. You also probably received government grants, government subsidized loans, or preferential rates on student loans because the government backed them. Keep telling yourself that you did it all on your own though.

I never said I did it on my own. However, I pay some pretty hefty taxes already. Between my wife and I, we make what is considered the lower end of upper middle class, we already pay the most or second most % wise. There are allot of people not pulling their weight, both above and below me.

pxsteel: dlp211: pxsteel: So the gov deserves a bigger chunk of my paycheck? Most of my professors only taught because they were required too. They were much more interested in their research. My education is a byproduct of the real work of the University, Research and Science.

Which was funded by a consortium of private industry and government grants. You also probably received government grants, government subsidized loans, or preferential rates on student loans because the government backed them. Keep telling yourself that you did it all on your own though.

I never said I did it on my own. However, I pay some pretty hefty taxes already. Between my wife and I, we make what is considered the lower end of upper middle class, we already pay the most or second most % wise. There are allot of people not pulling their weight, both above and below me.

Then you've got a pretty shiatty tax accountant. We're paying the lowest taxes in 60 years. The past 10 years have been awesome to any of us with disposable income to begin with. Last year I paid less than 10% to the federal government. I make 5x the average household income for my county. My wife doesn't work.

You're tax accountant obviously hates you.

Sgt Otter: YoungSwedishBlonde: mat catastrophe: This is the right-wing's newest craze: Making sure that everything in history is either attributed to private interests or denying the influence of government.

For instance:

"We as Americans can no longer expect and/or depend on government funding in many fields, specifically the visual arts. For God's sake, we conquered the West, rebuilt from a Great Depression, and especially in this city (Charleston, SC), survived a devastating Civil War."

Yep. That's right. Charleston, SC survived the Civil War without any help from the Federal Government.

And of course, rebuilding from the Great Depression was in no way in part to the Federal Government dictating to the private industry what they need to be producing, in case some sort of nuisance from overseas...

And of course, "conquering the West" had absolutely nothing to with the U.S. Cavalry putting the saber to hostile Native American tribes attacking white settlers.

And the Settlers wouldn't be there but for free land grants from...wait for it...

The irony is that the author is so unfamiliar with the internet, that he had no clue how quickly his claims would be proven wrong once it was published on the internet.