Meanwhile the rest of the world seems to do just fine with high mileage vehicles...

/ When are we going to get more of that high mpg diesel tech over here?
// The big three have always required government prodding and even then only create mediocre products.
/// fark the National Automobile Dealer's Association - they can take a pay cut like the rest of us

If approved, the changes are projected to save average American motorists roughly $8,200 at the pump over the life of their vehicles, but would also cost them as much as $3,000 more for a new vehicle.


Hmmm $8200 in savings Vs $3000 more up front? what to do.. what to do????

Obamafuel?

Whats this?

A new bill i can be outraged over!? This is going to directly prove the link between gas prices and how much Obama hates America and is a Double Secret Kenyan Socialist Muslim Marxist to the GOP.

Elzar: Meanwhile the rest of the world seems to do just fine with high mileage vehicles...

Most of those cars also won't pass regulations here because they aren't sufficiently armored against the landboats that are popular on our highways.

This from the people who think there aren't nearly enough cars available in America, and screw those hippies buying used vehicles, consumers are clamoring for a new Kia Sportage now. Seriously, why not make a new model every other year?

Yay, Cash for Clunkers.
Now there are no affordable used cars.

Thanks, Mister Preznit!

Elzar: Meanwhile the rest of the world seems to do just fine with high mileage vehicles...

/ When are we going to get more of that high mpg diesel tech over here?
// The big three have always required government prodding and even then only create mediocre products.
/// fark the National Automobile Dealer's Association - they can take a pay cut like the rest of us

I wonder how much of that effect has to do with a captive audience. There's millions of Americans who absolutely have to have a car to go about their daily business.

Research and development never created any new jobs!

Elzar: Meanwhile the rest of the world seems to do just fine with high mileage vehicles...

/ When are we going to get more of that high mpg diesel tech over here?
// The big three have always required government prodding and even then only create mediocre products.
/// fark the National Automobile Dealer's Association - they can take a pay cut like the rest of us

It really is hard to take them seriously since the bankruptcy, especially since they ought to know they'd get bailed out again in the odd chance they're right. They just don't want to go throught the hassle.

Shouldnt they have thought of that before selling a pickup truck for $40,000 that gets 8 MPG?

Obama did destroy the American car industry, but not this way. In conjunction with Bush, he bailed out the UAW.

/funny how GM makes great cars in China and Germany
//guess what those two countries don't have?
///nope, not unions - look at Germany

Interesting enough my dad bought,as the only new car in his life, the first Ford in which seatbelts were even an option in 1956, IIRC. According to him the car as a model bombed and Ford shortly thereafter discontinued it. A lot of its failure was chalked up to the optional seatbelts, as people figured if such a thing were even offered it must mean the car was a death trap.

That said the aluminim body Ford truck is pure protest statement and not at all meant to taken seriously as an actual vehicle they intended to sell.

Let me guess, the Classic GoP Response.

Link
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtMV44 yoXZ0

palelizard: Elzar: Meanwhile the rest of the world seems to do just fine with high mileage vehicles...

/ When are we going to get more of that high mpg diesel tech over here?
// The big three have always required government prodding and even then only create mediocre products.
/// fark the National Automobile Dealer's Association - they can take a pay cut like the rest of us

It really is hard to take them seriously since the bankruptcy, especially since they ought to know they'd get bailed out again in the odd chance they're right. They just don't want to go throught the hassle.

I think if they went kaboom at any time other than the middle of the biggest recession since the 1920s, it would be much harder to engineer a government-backed bankruptcy.

Considering the automakers are fine with the new regs, the dealers can suck it.

IrateShadow: Elzar: Meanwhile the rest of the world seems to do just fine with high mileage vehicles...

Most of those cars also won't pass regulations here because they aren't sufficiently armored against the landboats that are popular on our highways.

I just happen to have a link to a great video: A 1959 Bel-Air tailfinned tank in a head to head crash against a 2009 chevy malibu. The malibu does fairly decently for a car oppressed by burdensome government regulations that increase mileage at the cost of driver safety. By which I mean the malibu test dummy bounced off his airbag while the Bel-Air's ended up partially in the trunk.

HotIgneous Intruder: Yay, Cash for Clunkers.
Now there are no affordable used cars.

I haven't noticed a lack of options.

Is this really a thing? Or are people just wistfully recalling the halcyon days when used cars were only a nickle? You know, before Brikabrak Hoosegow Oface took over.

IrateShadow: Elzar: Meanwhile the rest of the world seems to do just fine with high mileage vehicles...

Most of those cars also won't pass regulations here because they aren't sufficiently armored against the landboats that are popular on our highways.

And if it starts to look like some of them might be able to pass the safety tests, the oil lobby will $convince Congress to make the safety tests just a bit harder for (foreign) cars above a certain level of fuel economy to pass.

And most fuel-efficient turbodiesels are kept out of this side of the Atlantic by ultra-stringent emissions regulations.

Sooo, saves $5000 in total costs for the consumer and is supported by the auto industry. Someone is REALLY hurting on the spin angle when the best they can come up with is it will make people use less gas which would reduce government income...and that's supposed to be BAD

beta_plus: Obama did destroy the American car industry, but not this way. In conjunction with Bush, he bailed out the UAW.

/funny how GM makes great cars in China and Germany
//guess what those two countries don't have?
///nope, not unions - look at Germany

HotIgneous Intruder: Yay, Cash for Clunkers.
Now there are no affordable used cars.

Thanks, Mister Preznit!

Total number of Cars turned in under cash for clunkers: 677,081

Total number of registered passenger vehicles in the US currently: 254,400,000

Number of years ago Cash for Clunkers ended: 3

Therefore, doing the math, we come to the conclusion that you're an idiot

Expolaris: A new bill i can be outraged over!?

Are you sure its new? I seem to remember the autos and the white house coming up with these standards a year and a half ago. I also recall there being a review in 2018 that allows for the standards to be reviewed and revised if they cause the auto industry problems.

Karac:
By which I mean the malibu test dummy bounced off his airbag while the Bel-Air's ended up partially in the trunk.

Let's see how well that Malibu does in 2070 or so, after 60+ years of corrosion.

Obamafuels? My car is old, it won't work with ni-*bong*-fuels.
It's not my fault, It's just what it learned before I bought it.

Elzar: Meanwhile the rest of the world seems to do just fine with high mileage vehicles...

/ When are we going to get more of that high mpg diesel tech over here?
// The big three have always required government prodding and even then only create mediocre products.
/// fark the National Automobile Dealer's Association - they can take a pay cut like the rest of us

Don't count on getting a high efficiency diesel in the US. Volkswagen can build them in the US, they just can't sell them. Too much lost fuel tax revenue. Link

Also, while I don't have much of an issue with the dilution of gas to reduce reliance on imported oil and improving emissions, I think the use of corn ethanol is ridiculous. Use a non-food crop like hemp or make methanol out of the coal we can no longer burn.

Funny how when Geo first came out, their vehicles had a 3 cylinder engine that got 50+ mpg. Chevy bought them and put in a 4 and then 6 cylinder engine. I have a 4 cylinder Chevy Tracker that only gets 24 mpg. I used to have a Chevy Cavalier that got 32 mpg. Where have all these high mpg engines gone? Could it be the oil companies pressuring the car manufacturers to pump out all these gas guzzlers?

Let me guess, if they don't hit some new efficiency goal, then someone will have to pay a tax. But don't you dare call it a tax increase!

Personally I'm waiting for Meowbama cat food.

StrikitRich: Elzar: Meanwhile the rest of the world seems to do just fine with high mileage vehicles...

/ When are we going to get more of that high mpg diesel tech over here?
// The big three have always required government prodding and even then only create mediocre products.
/// fark the National Automobile Dealer's Association - they can take a pay cut like the rest of us

Don't count on getting a high efficiency diesel in the US. Volkswagen can build them in the US, they just can't sell them. Too much lost fuel tax revenue. Link

Also, while I don't have much of an issue with the dilution of gas to reduce reliance on imported oil and improving emissions, I think the use of corn ethanol is ridiculous. Use a non-food crop like hemp or make methanol out of the coal we can no longer burn.

THIS

Cry Wolf and let slip the tears of war!

brblitz: Funny how when Geo first came out, their vehicles had a 3 cylinder engine that got 50+ mpg. Chevy bought them and put in a 4 and then 6 cylinder engine. I have a 4 cylinder Chevy Tracker that only gets 24 mpg. I used to have a Chevy Cavalier that got 32 mpg. Where have all these high mpg engines gone? Could it be the oil companies pressuring the car manufacturers to pump out all these gas guzzlers?

My '89 corolla consistently got 40-45mpg at highway speeds (by which I mean 75-80mph) The Geo prism I was forced to replace it with, despite coming off the same assembly line and supposedly being hte same car with fewer emenities, rarely got over 35, It amuses me to see people trying to brag on 35 mpg now 24 farking years later.

Magorn: HotIgneous Intruder: Yay, Cash for Clunkers.
Now there are no affordable used cars.

Thanks, Mister Preznit!

Total number of Cars turned in under cash for clunkers: 677,081

Total number of registered passenger vehicles in the US currently: 254,400,000

Number of years ago Cash for Clunkers ended: 3

Therefore, doing the math, we come to the conclusion that you're an idiot

This.

I guess the fact that cars now easily last 150,000 miles and the lack of consumer confidence causing people to delay buying new cars are not good reason for a lack of used cars. It has to be that limited program from three years ago.

Also, there are less lease vehicles coming off contract these days. This article has a good summary.

brblitz: Funny how when Geo first came out, their vehicles had a 3 cylinder engine that got 50+ mpg. Chevy bought them and put in a 4 and then 6 cylinder engine. I have a 4 cylinder Chevy Tracker that only gets 24 mpg. I used to have a Chevy Cavalier that got 32 mpg. Where have all these high mpg engines gone? Could it be the oil companies pressuring the car manufacturers to pump out all these gas guzzlers?

Geo was a sub-brand of chevy all along, the metro was a fine car but sales tapered off and in a bid to make them better they turned the optional 4 cylinder into the standard powerplant. Also most people didn't want a Tracker that was underpowered and undersized compared to Blazers, Explorers, Pathfinders etc. that's why that failed. The Cavalier was replaced by the similar Cobalt and now Cruze.

Look at how bloated a Civic is compared to the 80's. GM is just doing the same thing that every other maker has done.

You know what the worst part is? The shameless dishonesty of that statement. Those morons know that if GM made a car that got 200mpg it would be the highest selling car in history, yet they act like it would singlehandedly destroy the company. No mention of purposely designing and building cars that fall apart in three years, nothing about focusing all the advertising on giant gas guzzlers.

StrikitRich: Also, while I don't have much of an issue with the dilution of gas to reduce reliance on imported oil and improving emissions, I think the use of corn ethanol is ridiculous. Use a non-food crop like hemp or make methanol out of the coal we can no longer burn.

If we did that, we'd have to import the hemp, can't grow it here.

brblitz: Funny how when Geo first came out, their vehicles had a 3 cylinder engine that got 50+ mpg. Chevy bought them and put in a 4 and then 6 cylinder engine. I have a 4 cylinder Chevy Tracker that only gets 24 mpg. I used to have a Chevy Cavalier that got 32 mpg. Where have all these high mpg engines gone? Could it be the oil companies pressuring the car manufacturers to pump out all these gas guzzlers?

These are all significantly better than a Cavalier/Cobolt:
Chevrolet Cruze (26 city, 38 hwy, 30 combined)
Chevrolet Malibu (22 city, 33 hwy, 26 combined)
Chevrolet Sonic (29 cith, 40 hwy, 33 combined)

Link

Representative of the unwashed masses: Look at how bloated a Civic is compared to the 80's.

Had a Civic from 2000 (bought new) until late 2009, when the woman totaled it. She bought a 2010 Civic and it was a dog. Loud on the road, uncomfortable, tiny door locks & handles, etc. Traded it in for a Jeep with smaller payment and cheaper insurance.

HotWingConspiracy: HotIgneous Intruder: Yay, Cash for Clunkers.
Now there are no affordable used cars.

I haven't noticed a lack of options.

Is this really a thing? Or are people just wistfully recalling the halcyon days when used cars were only a nickle? You know, before Brikabrak Hoosegow Oface took over.

Before KKKash for KKKlunkers, cars where sold in huge Pez dispenser like devices that only cost 25 cents per car! Thanks a lot OBummer!!!!

LectertheChef: StrikitRich: Also, while I don't have much of an issue with the dilution of gas to reduce reliance on imported oil and improving emissions, I think the use of corn ethanol is ridiculous. Use a non-food crop like hemp or make methanol out of the coal we can no longer burn.

If we did that, we'd have to import the hemp, can't grow it here.

That was an implied part of my point. Legalize it.

GameSprocket: Also, there are less lease vehicles coming off contract these days. This article has a good summary.

Yes, cash for clunkers reduced the number of used cars on the road, contributing to their current higher prices.

Please post again when you resume living in the real world and not denial island.

HotWingConspiracy: HotIgneous Intruder: Yay, Cash for Clunkers.
Now there are no affordable used cars.

I haven't noticed a lack of options.

Is this really a thing? Or are people just wistfully recalling the halcyon days when used cars were only a nickle? You know, before Brikabrak Hoosegow Oface took over.

I can only go based on anecdotal evidence, but quality used cars have a price premium these days. Any good values are bought quickly, leaving repaired, overmileage, and overpriced heaps. That said, Cash for Clunkers was a failure due to the industry (read: Republicans) getting heir mitts on it and making the qualifications stupid and laughable.

Idea: Get the people driving huge 70-80s gas guzzlers over "the hump" by incentivizing their purchase of a new car. Winners: Everyone who had to look at their old rust bucket, auto manufacturers, consumers, the enviroment.

Reality: People saw free money and traded in perfectly good looking and working cars that were then, by law, permanently disabled. Winners: Greedy ass consumers that were able to trade up into the latest model of their car for cheap.

physt: beta_plus: Obama did destroy the American car industry, but not this way. In conjunction with Bush, he bailed out the UAW.

/funny how GM makes great cars in China and Germany
//guess what those two countries don't have?
///nope, not unions - look at Germany

[upload.wikimedia.org image 220x220]

Karac: IrateShadow: Elzar: Meanwhile the rest of the world seems to do just fine with high mileage vehicles...

Most of those cars also won't pass regulations here because they aren't sufficiently armored against the landboats that are popular on our highways.

I just happen to have a link to a great video: A 1959 Bel-Air tailfinned tank in a head to head crash against a 2009 chevy malibu. The malibu does fairly decently for a car oppressed by burdensome government regulations that increase mileage at the cost of driver safety. By which I mean the malibu test dummy bounced off his airbag while the Bel-Air's ended up partially in the trunk.

HA! That video is priceless. Can't wait to pass this around in response to the inevitable "they don't make 'em like they used to!" comments that pop up in almost any auto thread.

GoodyearPimp: HotWingConspiracy: HotIgneous Intruder: Yay, Cash for Clunkers.
Now there are no affordable used cars.

I haven't noticed a lack of options.

Is this really a thing? Or are people just wistfully recalling the halcyon days when used cars were only a nickle? You know, before Brikabrak Hoosegow Oface took over.

I can only go based on anecdotal evidence, but quality used cars have a price premium these days. Any good values are bought quickly, leaving repaired, overmileage, and overpriced heaps. That said, Cash for Clunkers was a failure due to the industry (read: Republicans) getting heir mitts on it and making the qualifications stupid and laughable.

Idea: Get the people driving huge 70-80s gas guzzlers over "the hump" by incentivizing their purchase of a new car. Winners: Everyone who had to look at their old rust bucket, auto manufacturers, consumers, the enviroment.

Reality: People saw free money and traded in perfectly good looking and working cars that were then, by law, permanently disabled. Winners: Greedy ass consumers that were able to trade up into the latest model of their car for cheap.

hat's got a lot less to do with C for C and more two basic economic realities:
1) people got a lot less disposable income so fixing the old car for one more year is the go to option instead of trading it in for a new one

2) like all lending , auto-finance lending is still sluggish to nigh-forzen making auto loans harder to qualify for generally, making cheaper used cars a more attractive option for most consumers

GoodyearPimp: Reality: People saw free money and traded in perfectly good looking and working cars that were then, by law, permanently disabled. Winners: Greedy ass consumers that were able to trade up into the latest model of their car for cheap.

Count me as one of them.

Traded in a well used '93 V6 Camry (averaged 18 mpg) for a 2010 Prius. The Prius was faster, more comfortable, carried more, a lot safer and always got over 50 mpg a tank. Plus had the added bonus at the time, my State waived the ~9% sales tax for hybrid cars.

-Saved some $200 a month in gas
-Got $4,500 from the Feds for a clunker
-Avoided $2,000 in State taxes

/still miss that Prius
//the exwife put it under a semi last year

HotIgneous Intruder: GameSprocket: Also, there are less lease vehicles coming off contract these days. This article has a good summary.

Yes, cash for clunkers reduced the number of used cars on the road, contributing to their current higher prices.

Please post again when you resume living in the real world and not denial island.

Do you have a link for your ass? That is where you are getting your information, right?

Cash for clunkers gave at most $4,500 for the trade-in. Since dealers could not resell the "clunker", they did not give additional money on top of the credit amount. Therefore, the cars traded in were worth $4,500 or less three years ago.

I posted a source for my information. Where is yours?

Those old Geo cars didn't weigh much at all. With all of the mandated safety improvements, vehicle weight has gone up significantly. More weight = less mileage. The push for safety and the push for fuel efficiency are at odds with each other.

Karac: : A 1959 Bel-Air tailfinned tank in a head to head crash against a 2009 chevy malibu.

That was a pile of rust with a new paint job vs a new car.

That being said, I'd rather modern cars be safe without fanfare. If people drive like they're wrapped in bubble wrap they drive worse. I'd actually be in favor of replacing air bags with spikes.

qorkfiend: I think if they went kaboom at any time other than the middle of the biggest recession since the 1920s, it would be much harder to engineer a government-backed bankruptcy.

Possible, but I'm not 100% certain. Look how much Romney's comment about letting Detroit go bankrupt is hurting him. I think since it happened once, it's more likely to happen again--especially since it was overall successful.

Karac: I just happen to have a link to a great video: A 1959 Bel-Air tailfinned tank in a head to head crash against a 2009 chevy malibu. The malibu does fairly decently for a car oppressed by burdensome government regulations that increase mileage at the cost of driver safety. By which I mean the malibu test dummy bounced off his airbag while the Bel-Air's ended up partially in the trunk.

Wow. That was pretty cool.

Explodo: Those old Geo cars didn't weigh much at all. With all of the mandated safety improvements, vehicle weight has gone up significantly. More weight = less mileage. The push for safety and the push for fuel efficiency are at odds with each other.

Of course, there haven't been any advances in materials science, giving us lighter materials to offset the tons of weight added by seat belts and airbags.