OK, that's so crazy that it makes me think it's a fake. However, assuming it's real video, why was the plane flying so low?! Was there too much weight? I know warmer temperatures means less density and reduced lift, but that flight looked doomed from the beginning (assuming the take-off wasn't supposed to take that long).

WxGuy1: OK, that's so crazy that it makes me think it's a fake. However, assuming it's real video, why was the plane flying so low?! Was there too much weight? I know warmer temperatures means less density and reduced lift, but that flight looked doomed from the beginning (assuming the take-off wasn't supposed to take that long).

I agree, they should have called it off when they couldn't get airborne the first time.

The plane wasn't that low, it was about 6400' ASL Anyway, you may not believe it, but 25 years ago, that guy was flying F-14s at Top Gun Fighter School, Miramar, writing checks his body couldn't cash. Then he went on to fly rubber dog shiat out of Hong Kong. Ended up running a 150 out of fuel over Macho Grande. Now he's crashing planes in Idaho and counting to potato on his iPad.

You call that a climb? There's jumbo jets with a a shorter take-off roll than that thing.

My mental dialog started screaming "abort!" about 15 seconds in and continued with "put it back down, you idiot" and finally "don't go near the trees, christ".

Hot, high and heavy.. It'll kill yah dead.

Incidentally, this pilot crashed another aircraft (think it was a 150?) a couple years ago after trying to land on a snow-covered runway. He had "used up his fuel reserve" climbing over a mountain, and wasn't able to make it to his planned destination.

Now, as I see it, mountains rarely move, so I don't understand why it or the resulting need to climb in order to clear it would've surprised him.

RoyBatty: The plane wasn't that low, it was about 6400' ASL Anyway, you may not believe it, but 25 years ago, that guy was flying F-14s at Top Gun Fighter School, Miramar, writing checks his body couldn't cash. Then he went on to fly rubber dog shiat out of Hong Kong. Ended up running a 150 out of fuel over Macho Grande. Now he's crashing planes in Idaho and counting to potato on his iPad.

And you know this how?

Just curious.

nyseattitude: RoyBatty: The plane wasn't that low, it was about 6400' ASL Anyway, you may not believe it, but 25 years ago, that guy was flying F-14s at Top Gun Fighter School, Miramar, writing checks his body couldn't cash. Then he went on to fly rubber dog shiat out of Hong Kong. Ended up running a 150 out of fuel over Macho Grande. Now he's crashing planes in Idaho and counting to potato on his iPad.

And you know this how?

Just curious.

He's seen a few movies in his time.

Wise_Guy: nyseattitude: RoyBatty: The plane wasn't that low, it was about 6400' ASL Anyway, you may not believe it, but 25 years ago, that guy was flying F-14s at Top Gun Fighter School, Miramar, writing checks his body couldn't cash. Then he went on to fly rubber dog shiat out of Hong Kong. Ended up running a 150 out of fuel over Macho Grande. Now he's crashing planes in Idaho and counting to potato on his iPad.

And you know this how?

Just curious.

He's seen a few movies in his time.

The Red Zone is for loading and unloading only...

Still, what the hell was he doing all examining and poking and prodding at the pilot's obviously broken face there towards the end? I had to stop watching...

costermonger: My mental dialog started screaming "abort!" about 15 seconds in and continued with "put it back down, you idiot" and finally "don't go near the trees, christ".

Hot, high and heavy.. It'll kill yah dead.

Same here. I was waiting...waiting....waiting for that plane to gain some altitude, any altitude.

A couple things I saw, overloaded perhaps (4 dudes in the plane), didn't concern himself with that annoying density altitude calculation and for farks sake STOP LOOKING AT THE GODDAMN IPAD (6:15 into the vid) when you're trying to climb out.

When your roll out uses up nearly the entire runway and then for a half mile after that you're not gaining a foot in altitude bring it back.

Only things that saved them were the dead and brittle sparse tree cover and pure dumb luck. The ironic part is the video will end up indicting this moron and hopefully he loses his license forever.

Enormous-Schwanstucker:

When your roll out uses up nearly the entire runway and then for a half mile after that you're not gaining a foot in altitude bring it back.

This. At 1:20, you already knew there was going to be an issue. If your aircraft isn't performing, there's a problem and it's time to put it back down.

Hmmm, so when the plane wouldn't lift more than 50 ft off the ground you though "meh let's try this again".

I larfed at the screen ad for the free flight training mag.

Mobutu: Wise_Guy: nyseattitude: RoyBatty: The plane wasn't that low, it was about 6400' ASL Anyway, you may not believe it, but 25 years ago, that guy was flying F-14s at Top Gun Fighter School, Miramar, writing checks his body couldn't cash. Then he went on to fly rubber dog shiat out of Hong Kong. Ended up running a 150 out of fuel over Macho Grande. Now he's crashing planes in Idaho and counting to potato on his iPad.

And you know this how?

Just curious.

He's seen a few movies in his time.

The Red Zone is for loading and unloading only...

Still, what the hell was he doing all examining and poking and prodding at the pilot's obviously broken face there towards the end? I had to stop watching...

You're the reason we can't get a decent picture of Bigfoot.

Pelvic Splanchnic Ganglion: Enormous-Schwanstucker:

When your roll out uses up nearly the entire runway and then for a half mile after that you're not gaining a foot in altitude bring it back.

This. At 1:20, you already knew there was going to be an issue. If your aircraft isn't performing, there's a problem and it's time to put it back down.

One other thing caught my attention. The right side camera view showed no flaps at all. I wonder if this clown forgot to set the flaps. I remember my Cessna manual said use them if on a field such as the one they used. You lose airspeed but you gain critical altitude.

Pelvic Splanchnic Ganglion: Enormous-Schwanstucker:

When your roll out uses up nearly the entire runway and then for a half mile after that you're not gaining a foot in altitude bring it back.

This. At 1:20, you already knew there was going to be an issue. If your aircraft isn't performing, there's a problem and it's time to put it back down.

I've had nights like that. :(

RoyBatty: Pelvic Splanchnic Ganglion: Enormous-Schwanstucker:

When your roll out uses up nearly the entire runway and then for a half mile after that you're not gaining a foot in altitude bring it back.

This. At 1:20, you already knew there was going to be an issue. If your aircraft isn't performing, there's a problem and it's time to put it back down.

I've had nights like that. :(



Wanna talk about it? We're here to help.

Enormous-Schwanstucker: RoyBatty: Pelvic Splanchnic Ganglion: Enormous-Schwanstucker:

When your roll out uses up nearly the entire runway and then for a half mile after that you're not gaining a foot in altitude bring it back.

This. At 1:20, you already knew there was going to be an issue. If your aircraft isn't performing, there's a problem and it's time to put it back down.

I've had nights like that. :(



Wanna talk about it? We're here to help.

No, no, no. The last thing I want to do is talk about it.

RoyBatty: Ended up running a 150 out of fuel over Macho Grande

Over Macho Grande???

RoyBatty: Enormous-Schwanstucker: RoyBatty: Pelvic Splanchnic Ganglion: Enormous-Schwanstucker:

When your roll out uses up nearly the entire runway and then for a half mile after that you're not gaining a foot in altitude bring it back.

This. At 1:20, you already knew there was going to be an issue. If your aircraft isn't performing, there's a problem and it's time to put it back down.

I've had nights like that. :(



Wanna talk about it? We're here to help.

No, no, no. The last thing I want to do is talk about it.

Ok, but you know where to find us. (snickering in the corner and pointing) :)

buntz: RoyBatty: Ended up running a 150 out of fuel over Macho Grande

Over Macho Grande???

No. I don't think I'll ever get over Macho Grande.

who suffers a near death experience then imediately starts mugging for the camera? A self absorbed twat, that's who.

RoyBatty: buntz: RoyBatty: Ended up running a 150 out of fuel over Macho Grande

Over Macho Grande???

No. I don't think I'll ever get over Macho Grande.

Andy came unglued

Enormous-Schwanstucker: One other thing caught my attention. The right side camera view showed no flaps at all. I wonder if this clown forgot to set the flaps. I remember my Cessna manual said use them if on a field such as the one they used. You lose airspeed but you gain critical altitude.

Everything about this video screams "pilot error". It's like he just made one bad decision after another. For example, at the moment of impact, he was fiddling with his goddamn iPad. I can only hope that he was reviewing an emergency checklist, but what he SHOULD have been doing was flying the damn plane.

I read that as NCC-1701D impacted and was damaged..

/too much Star Trek Online

Crewmannumber6: Andy came unglued

.....and Simon's turned to jelly!

I'm not a pilot or anything, but I'm pretty sure you want to fly over the trees. Also, strange how no one says anything as it is crashing. Not one peep.

nyseattitude: RoyBatty: The plane wasn't that low, it was about 6400' ASL Anyway, you may not believe it, but 25 years ago, that guy was flying F-14s at Top Gun Fighter School, Miramar, writing checks his body couldn't cash. Then he went on to fly rubber dog shiat out of Hong Kong. Ended up running a 150 out of fuel over Macho Grande. Now he's crashing planes in Idaho and counting to potato on his iPad.

And you know this how?

Just curious.

He's never going to get over it.

On review of the accident, Ensign Chekov is unsure of the new navigator's mad skillz.

RoyBatty: buntz: RoyBatty: Ended up running a 150 out of fuel over Macho Grande

Over Macho Grande???

No. I don't think I'll ever get over Macho Grande.

There just might be a few of us who will forget Macho Grande.

With my vast experience trying to get camcorders into the air on RC "things" I have to go with heavy.

NTSB preliminary report summary

PDF with complete (but still preliminary) report

Summer. Mountains. Afternoon. Idiots whose flight planning is full of wishful thinking.

Happens way too often.

Crewmannumber6: who suffers a near death experience then imediately starts mugging for the camera? A self absorbed twat, that's who.

"After flying up into the mountains for a morning hike" is a bit of a giveway also. "I want to wander around aimlessly, but it's too damn level here." White people problems.

Mark Ratner: I'm not a pilot or anything, but I'm pretty sure you want to fly over the trees. Also, strange how no one says anything as it is crashing. Not one peep.

Either the mic didn't pick up the voices very well or everyone knew what was happening and knew yelling wouldn't make it better. That said, 4 adult males and probably a full load of fuel at 6,400 agl with warm temperatures does not make for an easy takeoff. Should have aborted the attempt when the plan wouldn't get airborne and he still had a long stretch of grass to stop.

crozzo: White people problems.

Oh, you're one of THOSE.

and by those I mean one trick pony

Pelvic Splanchnic Ganglion: Enormous-Schwanstucker: One other thing caught my attention. The right side camera view showed no flaps at all. I wonder if this clown forgot to set the flaps. I remember my Cessna manual said use them if on a field such as the one they used. You lose airspeed but you gain critical altitude.

Everything about this video screams "pilot error". It's like he just made one bad decision after another. For example, at the moment of impact, he was fiddling with his goddamn iPad. I can only hope that he was reviewing an emergency checklist, but what he SHOULD have been doing was flying the damn plane.

At first I thought he was screwing with it too, but I think the iPad was actually clipped to his yoke.

Absolutely pilot error, though.

PPSEL, so getting a kick, etc. The common wisdom is to have 10deg (or whatever the first "notch" is) flaps on a high-alt takeoff, climb to an "acceptable" (depends on aircraft, terrain, etc) altitude and then reconfigure to a clean airfoil.

My own experience flying out of Cochise airfield near Wilcox, AZ (4700-ish ft, if I recall correctly) is that getting that initial climb performance is critical because you need to be able to get some altitude underneath you in case you need to turn. Maintaining altitude in a turn in an aircraft already close to the critical stall point can be VERY tricky. And a stall in a turn is just a smidge away from a spin.

The reason for this is that regardless of what bank angle an aircraft is in, the wing's lift will always be parallel to the WING, not the ground. That means the vertical factor of the lift vector gets reduced. At a 45-deg bank, your "skyward" lift is half what it was with wings level (there's some other factors, including wing loading, but we can ignore those for this discussion). The pilot obviously knew this. That's why he kept on going straight with only minor changes in heading. If he had banked any more than he did, he'd have immediately started sinking downward. And having had the same experience, I can tell you that it's not something you try twice.

Also getting that same initial altitude gives the pilot some margin for error when he encounters a down-draft or pocket of lower-density air.

It's also important to note that the same crash could have happened (and actually happens more often) when a pilot attempts to take off with an overloaded aircraft. Four-seaters were famous for this. The assumption is that if there are four seats, they can fly with four passengers- but in fact many four-seaters do not have enough usable load to fly with four full-grown adults. And so when the amount of lift generated is just marginally more than the amount of weight in the aircraft, you get long takeoff rolls and low rates of climb. Worse, pilots inexperienced enough to make this mistake will often decide the best thing to do is go back to the airport, and then they turn- banking the aircraft and losing the tiny amount of lift they DO have to the bank angle, effective wing loading, and g-forces in the turn. FAA crash investigators call this a "chain of bad decisions."

Anyway, I'm glad to hear they managed not to kill anybody.

Here's the article: Link

Mobutu: Wise_Guy: nyseattitude: RoyBatty: The plane wasn't that low, it was about 6400' ASL Anyway, you may not believe it, but 25 years ago, that guy was flying F-14s at Top Gun Fighter School, Miramar, writing checks his body couldn't cash. Then he went on to fly rubber dog shiat out of Hong Kong. Ended up running a 150 out of fuel over Macho Grande. Now he's crashing planes in Idaho and counting to potato on his iPad.

And you know this how?

Just curious.

He's seen a few movies in his time.

The Red Zone is for loading and unloading only...

Still, what the hell was he doing all examining and poking and prodding at the pilot's obviously broken face there towards the end? I had to stop watching...

There is No Stopping in a Red Zone. The White Zone is for loading and unloading only.

I just can't believe that guy kept going on that take-off run.

And kept going...

And kept going...

And kept going...

At some point there HAD to be a little niggle that maybe this was a bad idea.

"The landing gear hit some trees near the end of the runway and the force of that impact flipped the plane over, which caused it to land on the top a short distance away, according to sheriff's reports."

Near the end of the runway? Not quite Sheriff.

tillerman35: PPSEL, so getting a kick, etc. The common wisdom is to have 10deg (or whatever the first "notch" is) flaps on a high-alt takeoff, climb to an "acceptable" (depends on aircraft, terrain, etc) altitude and then reconfigure to a clean airfoil.

My own experience flying out of Cochise airfield near Wilcox, AZ (4700-ish ft, if I recall correctly) is that getting that initial climb performance is critical because you need to be able to get some altitude underneath you in case you need to turn. Maintaining altitude in a turn in an aircraft already close to the critical stall point can be VERY tricky. And a stall in a turn is just a smidge away from a spin.

The reason for this is that regardless of what bank angle an aircraft is in, the wing's lift will always be parallel to the WING, not the ground. That means the vertical factor of the lift vector gets reduced. At a 45-deg bank, your "skyward" lift is half what it was with wings level (there's some other factors, including wing loading, but we can ignore those for this discussion). The pilot obviously knew this. That's why he kept on going straight with only minor changes in heading. If he had banked any more than he did, he'd have immediately started sinking downward. And having had the same experience, I can tell you that it's not something you try twice.

Also getting that same initial altitude gives the pilot some margin for error when he encounters a down-draft or pocket of lower-density air.

It's also important to note that the same crash could have happened (and actually happens more often) when a pilot attempts to take off with an overloaded aircraft. Four-seaters were famous for this. The assumption is that if there are four seats, they can fly with four passengers- but in fact many four-seaters do not have enough usable load to fly with four full-grown adults. And so when the amount of lift generated is just marginally more than the amount of weight in the aircraft, you get long takeoff rolls and l ...

I was surprised he flew out of ground effect so quickly. Seemed he dove down to get back in it about 20 seconds or so later, but by then the trees were too close to be down there.

jonjr215: Near the end of the runway? Not quite Sheriff.

Compare to most news articles written about plane crashes, it's surprisingly accurate.

Crewmannumber6: who suffers a near death experience then imediately starts mugging for the camera? A self absorbed twat, that's who.

Geez, the density altitude was 9200'. A Stinson 108/3 with four adults (let's say 180 lbs each) and topped-off tanks is over 3000 lbs. I can't find a POH online for a Stinson, but for a Cessna 172 (similar gross weight and rate of climb), that just about puts it into negative rate-of-climb.

Enormous-Schwanstucker: Pelvic Splanchnic Ganglion: Enormous-Schwanstucker:

When your roll out uses up nearly the entire runway and then for a half mile after that you're not gaining a foot in altitude bring it back.

This. At 1:20, you already knew there was going to be an issue. If your aircraft isn't performing, there's a problem and it's time to put it back down.

One other thing caught my attention. The right side camera view showed no flaps at all. I wonder if this clown forgot to set the flaps. I remember my Cessna manual said use them if on a field such as the one they used. You lose airspeed but you gain critical altitude.

No, no... Those wings don't flap, they're rigid.... The engine provides the forward movement, only birds flap. ;-)

Crewmannumber6: RoyBatty: buntz: RoyBatty: Ended up running a 150 out of fuel over Macho Grande

Over Macho Grande???

No. I don't think I'll ever get over Macho Grande.

Andy came unglued

Luckily I don't think his drinking problem would have impacted his ability to fly, although the plane may have been ditched intentionally because he told this horribly boring and depressing story to his passengers.

Mark Ratner: I'm not a pilot or anything, but I'm pretty sure you want to fly over the trees. Also, strange how no one says anything as it is crashing. Not one peep.

I haven't done this, but it eerily takes me back to rolling a truck off the highway in black ice, which I have done. I'm pretty sure nobody in the truck really said anything, either. It turns out to not be your first reaction

edmo: Summer. Mountains. Afternoon. Idiots whose flight planning is full of wishful thinking.

Happens way too often.

Stanley has the overwhelming number of small plane crashes. It must have something to do with dumbasses from Boise, Pocatello and Sun Valley all thinking they're the shiat because they're wealthy enough to buy a plane and get minimal training and little to no maintenance.

As hot and as it's been around here they're lucky they didn't start a wildfire.