You mean the bailout that Romney takes credit for?

so he was against the bailout - then for the bailout - then against the bailout?

How does the bailout close a dealership? Was it a Toyota dealer?

Ok, but did it kill anyone? Furthermore, in what state could have those dozens moved so that they still had jobs? Illinois?

//drawing parallels

Kome: You mean the bailout that Romney takes credit for?

Mittens probably rooted for the Patriots in the Superbowl and takes credit for the Giants win...

Mittens flip-flopping? Never!

Obama's bailout killed the guy's wife too, I've heard.

It is absolutely farking sick that anyone takes Mitt Romney seriously. He is pure political stereotype.

Dances-with-Horses scores another spectacular own goal.

I bet that guy in the ad is going to be pissed to find out that Romney supports the bailout, too

Bladel: How does the bailout close a dealership? Was it a Toyota dealer?

Toyota was in favor of the bailout.

These are the positions I have heard from Mitt on the bailout.

1. I am against it
2. I liked the saved jobs, but it was done wrong and they should have done it with private financing which would have worked out.
3. It was a great plan by George W. Bush, but something something Obama.
4. It was bad.

It makes sense when you understand that all of these late campaign, negative ads are for undecided voters who literally have paid zero attention to any of the candidates and have no idea what any of their positions are. It's why Mitt can flip-flop with impunity. It doesn't matter.

Bladel: How does the bailout close a dealership? Was it a Toyota dealer?

Part of the bailout deal allowed the automakers to break their contracts with a number of dealers. They reduced the number of dealerships to make the remaining dealers more profitable and reduce the automakers dealership support costs. It was a pretty big story three-ish years ago.

MisterBill: Bladel: How does the bailout close a dealership? Was it a Toyota dealer?

Part of the bailout deal allowed the automakers to break their contracts with a number of dealers. They reduced the number of dealerships to make the remaining dealers more profitable and reduce the automakers dealership support costs. It was a pretty big story three-ish years ago.

I don't think Toyota got a bailout from the US.

MisterBill: Bladel: How does the bailout close a dealership? Was it a Toyota dealer?

Part of the bailout deal allowed the automakers to break their contracts with a number of dealers. They reduced the number of dealerships to make the remaining dealers more profitable and reduce the automakers dealership support costs. It was a pretty big story three-ish years ago.

Essentially, the bailout allowed the car companies to do what the GOP loves, loves, loves businesses to do- trim the areas losing money and keep the ones making money in order to keep the company healthy. I wonder why they seem opposed to that now? Ohhhh, right.

MisterBill: Bladel: How does the bailout close a dealership? Was it a Toyota dealer?

Part of the bailout deal allowed the automakers to break their contracts with a number of dealers. They reduced the number of dealerships to make the remaining dealers more profitable and reduce the automakers dealership support costs. It was a pretty big story three-ish years ago.

I was actually working for one of the 'big 3' at the time on a project that involved the dealer / supplier network. Some of these "dealerships" that closed were just one guy in a barn that ordered one new truck a year for someone in his community and provided no services. They are notoriously hard to get rid of, especially when they have the original dealer agreement with Henry Ford's own signature on it.

Bladel: How does the bailout close a dealership? Was it a Toyota dealer?

The manufactures had to close a lot of stores in order to get the money. They needed to anyway, there were entirely too many points in the country. They closed a lot of small dealerships that were, surprise surprise, not very profitable. No store that was doing really well got shut down that I know of. I remember at one point here in Kansas City metro there were 35 Chevy stores, for a town of 2 millionish, that's insane, and it's terrible business.

MisterBill: Bladel: How does the bailout close a dealership? Was it a Toyota dealer?

Part of the bailout deal allowed the automakers to break their contracts with a number of dealers. They reduced the number of dealerships to make the remaining dealers more profitable and reduce the automakers dealership support costs. It was a pretty big story three-ish years ago.

It's just too bad that Obama and his big government came in and blocked the benevolent private equity firms (blessings upon the Job Creators) that were lining up to save all those jobs. It's not as though the Bain Capitals of the world were utterly refusing to step in, or that they would have looted and pillaged the industry if they did step in.

It's not just Romney. It's the whole GOP. Their whole raison d'être is to be against whatever Obama is for. So you have the spectre or spectacle of Romney being against Romneycare, against the bailout, against anything good and decent Obama has done, and basically all Obama knows is good and decent to the detriment of him being able to get anything done with the GOP.

MisterBill: Bladel: How does the bailout close a dealership? Was it a Toyota dealer?

Part of the bailout deal allowed the automakers to break their contracts with a number of dealers. They reduced the number of dealerships to make the remaining dealers more profitable and reduce the automakers dealership support costs. It was a pretty big story three-ish years ago.

So the Bailout allowed the Free Market to work its Free Markety Magic on these guys?

Let's hear Mitt and the GOP run with this a bit further.

mitchcumstein1: Bladel: How does the bailout close a dealership? Was it a Toyota dealer?

The manufactures had to close a lot of stores in order to get the money. They needed to anyway, there were entirely too many points in the country. They closed a lot of small dealerships that were, surprise surprise, not very profitable. No store that was doing really well got shut down that I know of. I remember at one point here in Kansas City metro there were 35 Chevy stores, for a town of 2 millionish, that's insane, and it's terrible business.

Near me there was a Buick only dealership and a Lincoln only dealership that were closed from the bailout. Not Buick-GMC or Lincoln-Mercury, but Buick and Lincoln only. I don't see how those guys made any money selling only one brand that doesn't sell very well as it is.

qorkfiend: MisterBill: Bladel: How does the bailout close a dealership? Was it a Toyota dealer?

Part of the bailout deal allowed the automakers to break their contracts with a number of dealers. They reduced the number of dealerships to make the remaining dealers more profitable and reduce the automakers dealership support costs. It was a pretty big story three-ish years ago.

I don't think Toyota got a bailout from the US.

Though it wasn't explicitly specified in the advertisement, I don't think it was a Toyota dealership that got closed. Or if it did deal with Toyotas, it was part of a mixed GM/Toyota dealership.

Cletus C.: Obama's bailout killed the guy's wife too, I've heard.

That's ok, because the millions of other jobs saved also saved lives, so positive net sum.

//and to be fair, thanks to Romneycare, which Andrea Saul thinks every state should have (AND DOES NOW!), Romney also saved plenty.
///you can stop shilling now, they just bought a ticket to their own funeral

I thought the whole point of closing the dealerships was that there were too many dealerships in such close proximity with each other that they were competing each other out of business.

At the time I thought the consensus was that the move to close unneeded dealerships was a necessary move in making the car manufacturers profitable again.

So is this Romney retroactively eliminating that consensus, or showing his ineptitude at understanding the priorities of main street (in that the government acted to save an industry so that hundreds of thousands wouldn't go unemployed) as compared to wall street?

So Mittens is saying where a manufacturing firm has a dealer that is not making money they should keep it open so the employees do not lose their jobs?

Bailout said that GM/Chrysler needed to close lowest performing dealers (although definition around lowest was subjective)

Kome: You mean the bailout that Romney takes credit for?

That's been retroactively taken back. Please try to keep up

FlashHarry: so he was against the bailout - then for the bailout - then against the bailout?

Romney has always had one position: He's for the things about the bailout you like, but he's against the things about it you don't.

It's the same for every issue. He'll cut your taxes because you don't like those, but he's gonna keep all the spending you like. He saved companies from bankruptcy at Bain, but it's beyond the pale to point out that other companies were gutted. He'll hold any position you want him to, just please let him be president.

MisterBill: qorkfiend: MisterBill: Bladel: How does the bailout close a dealership? Was it a Toyota dealer?

Part of the bailout deal allowed the automakers to break their contracts with a number of dealers. They reduced the number of dealerships to make the remaining dealers more profitable and reduce the automakers dealership support costs. It was a pretty big story three-ish years ago.

I don't think Toyota got a bailout from the US.

Though it wasn't explicitly specified in the advertisement, I don't think it was a Toyota dealership that got closed. Or if it did deal with Toyotas, it was part of a mixed GM/Toyota dealership.

Oh, I see. Thanks.

Question: if part of the bailout package was that GM and Chrysler could cut off dealerships, why did they only cut off a single dealership?

imashark: So is this Romney retroactively eliminating that consensus, or showing his ineptitude at understanding the priorities of main street (in that the government acted to save an industry so that hundreds of thousands wouldn't go unemployed) as compared to wall street?

No. This is the Romney campaign grasping at whatever straws they can find to substantiate that Obama's "wrong on the economy," despite the fact that nearly all actual facts state otherwise. His latest test dummy pointing to the bailout as the reason for the loss of his dealership is typically short-sighted, given that the retail end of things was but one part of the overall package... and the resulting solution is light years better than anything out of Bain's playbook.

/just go home Mitt. You're not cut out for this.

Gosh, if only Romney would have advocated for higher taxes to pay off the worthless slugs at GM to just stay home and collect a check, then NONE of those people would have lost their jobs...ever!

In fact, why not just raise taxes enough so that any person who ever loses his job for any reason gets the same pay, even if not working. My FSM, employment would be 100% all the FARKing time!!!

Then the candidate could come out and say, under my plan, it is not even theoretically possible to lose your job.

It's seems so perfect that there almost has to be a hole in the logic somewhere, amirite?

Naaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah.

/dumbocrap logic for you

Rapmaster2000: mitchcumstein1: Bladel: How does the bailout close a dealership? Was it a Toyota dealer?

The manufactures had to close a lot of stores in order to get the money. They needed to anyway, there were entirely too many points in the country. They closed a lot of small dealerships that were, surprise surprise, not very profitable. No store that was doing really well got shut down that I know of. I remember at one point here in Kansas City metro there were 35 Chevy stores, for a town of 2 millionish, that's insane, and it's terrible business.

Near me there was a Buick only dealership and a Lincoln only dealership that were closed from the bailout. Not Buick-GMC or Lincoln-Mercury, but Buick and Lincoln only. I don't see how those guys made any money selling only one brand that doesn't sell very well as it is.

Old people.

qorkfiend: MisterBill: qorkfiend: MisterBill: Bladel: How does the bailout close a dealership? Was it a Toyota dealer?

Part of the bailout deal allowed the automakers to break their contracts with a number of dealers. They reduced the number of dealerships to make the remaining dealers more profitable and reduce the automakers dealership support costs. It was a pretty big story three-ish years ago.

I don't think Toyota got a bailout from the US.

Though it wasn't explicitly specified in the advertisement, I don't think it was a Toyota dealership that got closed. Or if it did deal with Toyotas, it was part of a mixed GM/Toyota dealership.

Oh, I see. Thanks.

Question: if part of the bailout package was that GM and Chrysler could cut off dealerships, why did they only cut off a single dealership?

The automakers closed down 100s of dealerships. I guess most of the rest of them just aren't whining about it as loudly.

" My own view, by the way, was that the auto companies needed to go through bankruptcy before government help. And frankly, that's finally what the president did. He finally took them through bankruptcy. That was the right course I argued for from the very beginning. It was the UAW and the president that delayed the idea of bankruptcy. I pushed the idea of a managed bankruptcy and finally when that was done, and help was given, the companies got back on their feet. So I'll take a lot of credit for the fact that this industry's come back."
- Mitt Romney (May 7, 2012)

MisterBill: qorkfiend: MisterBill: qorkfiend: MisterBill: Bladel: How does the bailout close a dealership? Was it a Toyota dealer?

Part of the bailout deal allowed the automakers to break their contracts with a number of dealers. They reduced the number of dealerships to make the remaining dealers more profitable and reduce the automakers dealership support costs. It was a pretty big story three-ish years ago.

I don't think Toyota got a bailout from the US.

Though it wasn't explicitly specified in the advertisement, I don't think it was a Toyota dealership that got closed. Or if it did deal with Toyotas, it was part of a mixed GM/Toyota dealership.

Oh, I see. Thanks.

Question: if part of the bailout package was that GM and Chrysler could cut off dealerships, why did they only cut off a single dealership?

The automakers closed down 100s of dealerships. I guess most of the rest of them just aren't whining about it as loudly.

That's what I figured must have happened. I wonder why Romney's team didn't dig up at least a couple more dealerships.

Isn't that basically what the women dieing of cancer ad does? Pick a single negative aspect, without regard for the overall outcome and display it with as much emotion as you can.

Im trying to figure out what Romney thory is correct

Is it;

Quantum Romney theory Romney hold both opinions on any subject at any given time.

-or-

Romney Uncertainty theory Romney has an opinion on a subject, but by asking him you may change said opinion.

whitman00: MisterBill: Bladel: How does the bailout close a dealership? Was it a Toyota dealer?

Part of the bailout deal allowed the automakers to break their contracts with a number of dealers. They reduced the number of dealerships to make the remaining dealers more profitable and reduce the automakers dealership support costs. It was a pretty big story three-ish years ago.

Essentially, the bailout allowed the car companies to do what the GOP loves, loves, loves businesses to do- trim the areas losing money and keep the ones making money in order to keep the company healthy. I wonder why they seem opposed to that now? Ohhhh, right.

^ This.

Sort of like the argument I hear GOP nutbags periodically trot out about loans and defaulting/bankruptcy:

- A business deliberately defaulting on a loan: "This is a necessary financial move in order to protect shareholder value."

- A homeowner deliberately defaulting on a mortgage: "How dare you think of doing this! You signed a contract! Have you no decency or understanding of your obligation?"

Garaba: Im trying to figure out what Romney thory is correct

Is it;

Quantum Romney theory Romney hold both opinions on any subject at any given time.

-or-

Romney Uncertainty theory Romney has an opinion on a subject, but by asking him you may change said opinion.

I think it's a modified version of the first one. Romney simultaneously holds all positions on an issue until he is observed, at which time he collapses into the position he things the observer would most like to hear.

Garaba: Im trying to figure out what Romney thory is correct

Is it;

Quantum Romney theory Romney hold both opinions on any subject at any given time.

-or-

Romney Uncertainty theory Romney has an opinion on a subject, but by asking him you may change said opinion.

Here's the formal thesis.

cashdaddy: whitman00: MisterBill: Bladel: How does the bailout close a dealership? Was it a Toyota dealer?

Part of the bailout deal allowed the automakers to break their contracts with a number of dealers. They reduced the number of dealerships to make the remaining dealers more profitable and reduce the automakers dealership support costs. It was a pretty big story three-ish years ago.

Essentially, the bailout allowed the car companies to do what the GOP loves, loves, loves businesses to do- trim the areas losing money and keep the ones making money in order to keep the company healthy. I wonder why they seem opposed to that now? Ohhhh, right.

^ This.

Sort of like the argument I hear GOP nutbags periodically trot out about loans and defaulting/bankruptcy:

- A business deliberately defaulting on a loan: "This is a necessary financial move in order to protect shareholder value."

- A homeowner deliberately defaulting on a mortgage: "How dare you think of doing this! You signed a contract! Have you no decency or understanding of your obligation?"

Similar to what they say about teacher employment contracts vs. CEO employment contracts. One can be altered by the government on a whim, the other can never be touched.

SevenizGud: /dumbocrap logic for you

I laughed. Not sure if that was the point or not, but I did laugh at your post. Good work.

qorkfiend: cashdaddy: whitman00: MisterBill: Bladel: How does the bailout close a dealership? Was it a Toyota dealer?

Part of the bailout deal allowed the automakers to break their contracts with a number of dealers. They reduced the number of dealerships to make the remaining dealers more profitable and reduce the automakers dealership support costs. It was a pretty big story three-ish years ago.

Essentially, the bailout allowed the car companies to do what the GOP loves, loves, loves businesses to do- trim the areas losing money and keep the ones making money in order to keep the company healthy. I wonder why they seem opposed to that now? Ohhhh, right.

^ This.

Sort of like the argument I hear GOP nutbags periodically trot out about loans and defaulting/bankruptcy:

- A business deliberately defaulting on a loan: "This is a necessary financial move in order to protect shareholder value."

- A homeowner deliberately defaulting on a mortgage: "How dare you think of doing this! You signed a contract! Have you no decency or understanding of your obligation?"

Similar to what they say about teacher employment contracts vs. CEO employment contracts. One can be altered by the government on a whim, the other can never be touched.

That's because the evil teachers are stealing tax dollars from the poor hapless CEO....

Using the Space Balls definition of good, Romney must be great.

imashark: I thought the whole point of closing the dealerships was that there were too many dealerships in such close proximity with each other that they were competing each other out of business.

At the time I thought the consensus was that the move to close unneeded dealerships was a necessary move in making the car manufacturers profitable again.

So is this Romney retroactively eliminating that consensus, or showing his ineptitude at understanding the priorities of main street (in that the government acted to save an industry so that hundreds of thousands wouldn't go unemployed) as compared to wall street?

No. The point of.closing dealerships was to reward those that gave $$$ to Obama