Surprisingly, this was the first firing of the year.

We need someone who can win with AAA talent. Surely this guy is available or we wouldn't have fired Mills. I hate these types of idiotic moves

It would take a Messiah to fix the Astros.

And Brad Mills spent the evening celebrating.

And the News Flash tag reaches a new low.

What? Who?

In what crazy moon language were the article's comments written?

"Article" is a generous term here.

SilentStrider: Surprisingly, this was the first firing of the year.

Weird, isn't? You expect at least the Cubs manager to be canned before August 19th.

Blame the manager for the results of having a crappy roster. Brilliant.

JosephFinn: SilentStrider: Surprisingly, this was the first firing of the year.

Weird, isn't? You expect at least the Cubs manager to be canned before August 19th.

Well, they just hired him this past offseason. I'd thik Theo would give him some time.

SilentStrider: JosephFinn: SilentStrider: Surprisingly, this was the first firing of the year.

Weird, isn't? You expect at least the Cubs manager to be canned before August 19th.

Well, they just hired him this past offseason. I'd thik Theo would give him some time.

Ah, you're right. For some reason I thought this was his second season but it's only Sveum's first. (And I like Dale, for what it's worth.)

SilentStrider: I'd thik Theo would give him some time.

Plus Theo knows the Cubs roster is a bit cobbled together seeing as he barely had any time to do anything with it given how long it took for the Red Sox to let him actually work for the Cubs.

Bit of trivia here: Brad Mills was the guy Nolan Ryan struck out to either tie or surpass Walter Johnson as the all-time-strikeout king. Ryan was with the Astros and Mills was a third baseman with the Expos. The other Expos in the equation was catcher Tim Blackwell.

WhyteRaven74: Blame the manager for the results of having a crappy roster. Brilliant.

Agreed, but with a career .386 winning percentage as a manager, it's hard to make the case that he's in fact a great manager...

I'm sure they are just going to start looking for a more AL oriented manager who doesn't burden himself with knowing bench players or strategy or matchups. Penmanship is not required.

DeltaPunch: it's hard to make the case that he's in fact a great manager...

I don't think anyone would say he's a great manager, but I'm not sure anyone could do better with the lineup he's had this year. If Joe Torre had to manage it he'd be drinking himself senseless, during the games.

So are the Astros just going to funnel kids straight from the Little League World Series to the team when rosters expand on September 1?

He wasn't hired by the current owners, and they are moving to the AL next year. Frankly, it'd have been some miracle if he wasn't fired.

Captain Carrot Cake: Bit of trivia here: Brad Mills was the guy Nolan Ryan struck out to either tie or surpass Walter Johnson as the all-time-strikeout king. Ryan was with the Astros and Mills was a third baseman with the Expos. The other Expos in the equation was catcher Tim Blackwell.

Nolan had developed a blister during that game that had to be drained in between innings. Blackwell was the strikeout that tied it at 3,508, which occurred while he was pinch-hitting in the 8th inning. The next batter, also pinch-hitting, was Mills. Mills didn't know if he was the one to tie or break it at that point, but being left-handed he was facing the Astros dugout, so when Ryan just missed with an 0-2 curveball, he could see from the dugout's reaction that he was the batter that would break the record. The next pitch was another curveball for strikeout 3,509, surpassing Walter Johnson. Ryan later made a comment that he wish he could have broken the record in Houston, because baseball isn't so big in Montreal and the crowd didn't really seem to have any idea what was going on...

(According to Mills, once he realized that he would be the strikeout that breaks the record, he looked for a fastball, figuring Ryan would break the record with his famous fastball... which is why he went down looking at a curveball.)

As someone who knows nothing about Baseball other than the Astros suck.... will it actually fix everything?

shiryatsya: As someone who knows nothing about Baseball other than the Astros suck.... will it actually fix everything?

It will change nothing. The Astros are doomed for another 3 to 5 years, at best.

I guess the Red Sox ownership will wait until the end of the regular season to fire Valentine. If he's still the manager next year I'd be surprised if the team's record were any better. He's just not a good fit.

WhyteRaven74: DeltaPunch: it's hard to make the case that he's in fact a great manager...

I don't think anyone would say he's a great manager, but I'm not sure anyone could do better with the lineup he's had this year. If Joe Torre had to manage it he'd be drinking himself senseless, during the games.

Consider for a moment that there is only a single active player (Ben Francisco) earning over $750,000. Their current roster payroll totals $21.3 Million. Do the Yankees even have a player who doesn't earn that much on his own?

So yeah, it's totally obvious that this is all the manager's fault.

JosephFinn: SilentStrider: JosephFinn: SilentStrider: Surprisingly, this was the first firing of the year.

Weird, isn't? You expect at least the Cubs manager to be canned before August 19th.

Well, they just hired him this past offseason. I'd thik Theo would give him some time.

Ah, you're right. For some reason I thought this was his second season but it's only Sveum's first. (And I like Dale, for what it's worth.)

Nope, he was hired in 2010, was Francona's bench coach before that.

Not surprised by the move. I'd imagine it will be a whole new coaching staff next year. Jeff Luhnow will want to put in his staff and not one inherited from the previous GM. At this point, it's not like they are going to do any worse.

/it's tough being an Astros fan

I'm satisfied.

crzytxn: shiryatsya: As someone who knows nothing about Baseball other than the Astros suck.... will it actually fix everything?

It will change nothing. The Astros are doomed for another 3 to 5 years, at best.

No way. Luhnow is making some fantastic moves. Maybe not next year, but I can easily see them above .500 in 2014.

If only the sawx would fire Bobby V. Won't solve anything, but it's a start.

ThatGuyGreg: And the News Flash tag reaches a new low.

Have you had a stroke?

DeWayne Mann: crzytxn: shiryatsya: As someone who knows nothing about Baseball other than the Astros suck.... will it actually fix everything?

It will change nothing. The Astros are doomed for another 3 to 5 years, at best.

No way. Luhnow is making some fantastic moves. Maybe not next year, but I can easily see them above .500 in 2014.

What this guy said. It may look futile, but the franchise finally looks like it has a sense of direction for the first time in about a decade. Since the sale/hiring of Luhnow the 'Stros have been offloading useless, expensive contracts (basically paying for guys to play for other teams) for prospects and have actually been signing their draft picks. With another #1 pick coming their way (and probably another one) and basically an entire roster worth of cap room to play with I'd look for them to attempt the turnaround after next season.

At least we have Jeremy Lin and the Texans, right??

Dinobot: If only the sawx would fire Bobby V. Won't solve anything, but it's a start.

The thing is, if you fire Bobby V, it does solve one minor, overlooked thing (and this is why I think the 'Stros fired Mills, as well):

It gives you a start on finding the next guy, because you can get a look at how your interim guy does.

Fire Bobby V and install Bogar or one of the minor league guys as manager. If he does pretty well (by which I mean doesn't completely screw up the lineup for laughs or make outlandishly stupid comments to the media), KEEP HIM FOR NEXT YEAR. If he does mess up, well, that's one name off the search list.

If you know the guy won't be back next year, and you're out of the hunt this year (and, face it, the Sox are), there's no reason not to do the above, unless you think NO ONE in the organization can manage...and then you've got other problems.

DeWayne Mann: If you know the guy won't be back next year, and you're out of the hunt this year (and, face it, the Sox are), there's no reason not to do the above, unless you think NO ONE in the organization can manage...and then you've got other problems.

Well, apparently Henry and Lucchino dont think Cherington is a good GM, since they overruled him and went with Bobby V in the first place...

logggur: What this guy said. It may look futile, but the franchise finally looks like it has a sense of direction for the first time in about a decade. Since the sale/hiring of Luhnow the 'Stros have been offloading useless, expensive contracts (basically paying for guys to play for other teams) for prospects and have actually been signing their draft picks. With another #1 pick coming their way (and probably another one) and basically an entire roster worth of cap room to play with I'd look for them to attempt the turnaround after next season.

I mean, this could be the starting 9 for 2014:

C: Castro
1B: Singleton
2B: Altuve
SS: Lowrie
3B: Paredes
LF: JD Martinez
CF: DeShields
RF: Springer
DH: Wallace

And there are a few other guys that could work. If one of their 800 awesome SS prospects is ready, they can probably trade Lowrie for pitching.

That's a fantastic foundation for a team. As a Red Sox fan, I'm kinda jealous.

As for pitching, that's the main thing Luhnow has been working on. Check out the guys in the Brett Myers deal, for instance.

Dinobot: Well, apparently Henry and Lucchino dont think Cherington is a good GM, since they overruled him and went with Bobby V in the first place...

Well, I don't think he's a good GM either, so...

DeWayne Mann: Dinobot: Well, apparently Henry and Lucchino dont think Cherington is a good GM, since they overruled him and went with Bobby V in the first place...

Well, I don't think he's a good GM either, so...

Then they should have started by getting a new GM as well. Ben has been with the team for almost a decade, at the least. What a way to show him that you believe in him.

skinink: I guess the Red Sox ownership will wait until the end of the regular season to fire Valentine. If he's still the manager next year I'd be surprised if the team's record were any better. He's just not a good fit.

I am shocked the Boston media hasn't already called for hiring Mills.

No manager is going to fix this steaming pile that they call a roster. The inmates are running the asylum, and nothing short of gutting the roster will help them into the future.

Dinobot: DeWayne Mann: Dinobot: Well, apparently Henry and Lucchino dont think Cherington is a good GM, since they overruled him and went with Bobby V in the first place...

Well, I don't think he's a good GM either, so...

Then they should have started by getting a new GM as well. Ben has been with the team for almost a decade, at the least. What a way to show him that you believe in him.

Not saying anything I disagree with. If you drive Theo out of town, there's no reason to keep his retarded younger brother as GM.

A Twitter feed got greenlit? We couldn't have used a link that provided, you know, like facts and back story? What next, A Rod tweeting "OMG got a boner looking at the girl behind the Red Sox dug out?"

How Mills got canned before Jim Tracy is beyond me. I don't think firing the manager for a AAA-caliber Major League team really accomplishes anything. Probably just a PR move that every Houston baseball fan should see right through.

DeWayne Mann: Dinobot: DeWayne Mann: Dinobot: Well, apparently Henry and Lucchino dont think Cherington is a good GM, since they overruled him and went with Bobby V in the first place...

Well, I don't think he's a good GM either, so...

Then they should have started by getting a new GM as well. Ben has been with the team for almost a decade, at the least. What a way to show him that you believe in him.

Not saying anything I disagree with. If you drive Theo out of town, there's no reason to keep his retarded younger brother as GM.

I agree completely. And even then, I never believed Theo was all that he was hyped up to be. He was mediocre when it came to pitching.

Dinobot: I agree completely. And even then, I never believed Theo was all that he was hyped up to be. He was mediocre when it came to pitching.

I know why you say that, but I think (and I completely understand why someone would disagree with me on this) that a lot of Theo's worse moves (Lackey, for instance) came about because of PR/Ownership reasons, not baseball ones.

I'm fairly sure Theo knows that, in general, free agent pitchers don't work. But every offseason, the story is "The Sox have to make a big free agent splash to compete with the Yankees!" It's a bit easier to make that splash with a pitcher.

(Note that I feel the same way about Cashman)

If Theo had traded away a bunch of good pitching, that'd be one thing...but the only one I can think of is Masterson, and he's been an average pitcher outside of last year. Casey Kelly could turn out pretty good....but let's see him in the Majors and outside of PETCO first.

DeWayne Mann: Dinobot: I agree completely. And even then, I never believed Theo was all that he was hyped up to be. He was mediocre when it came to pitching.

I know why you say that, but I think (and I completely understand why someone would disagree with me on this) that a lot of Theo's worse moves (Lackey, for instance) came about because of PR/Ownership reasons, not baseball ones.

I'm fairly sure Theo knows that, in general, free agent pitchers don't work. But every offseason, the story is "The Sox have to make a big free agent splash to compete with the Yankees!" It's a bit easier to make that splash with a pitcher.

(Note that I feel the same way about Cashman)

If Theo had traded away a bunch of good pitching, that'd be one thing...but the only one I can think of is Masterson, and he's been an average pitcher outside of last year. Casey Kelly could turn out pretty good....but let's see him in the Majors and outside of PETCO first.

Well, I remember him trading away Bronson Arroyo, ok... so he's a 3rd or 4th starting pitcher, but that guy seems to be made of iron... and he traded him when he was cheap and for what boils down to a spoiled half eaten burger .... or Willy Mo Pena.

Dinobot: Well, I remember him trading away Bronson Arroyo, ok... so he's a 3rd or 4th starting pitcher, but that guy seems to be made of iron... and he traded him when he was cheap and for what boils down to a spoiled half eaten burger .... or Willy Mo Pena.

Since being on the Reds, here are Arroyo's FIP-s (a FIP- of 100 is average; lower is better):

90
99
102
111
113
146
105

While it might've been nice to get something more than Wily Mo, Arroyo would've been crushed if he stayed in the AL East.

Lackey.
Matsuzaka, the "worst 18-3 pitcher ever" (forget who said it, but it's true)
Trading away Masterson & Arroyo before figuring out if they were good or not.
The Lowe thing. (FWIW, he'd be better than Lackey or Matsuzaka ever have been in Boston).
Bobby Jenks.
Colon.
GAGNE.
The dicking around with Bard, Miller, etc.
Brad Penny
A 42 year old John Smoltz.

Add all that up with the general ineffectiveness of the bullpen when it counts in every year not named 2004 or 2007, and you can't tell me Boy Blunder had a clue when it came to pitching.

DeWayne Mann: Dinobot: Well, I remember him trading away Bronson Arroyo, ok... so he's a 3rd or 4th starting pitcher, but that guy seems to be made of iron... and he traded him when he was cheap and for what boils down to a spoiled half eaten burger .... or Willy Mo Pena.

Since being on the Reds, here are Arroyo's FIP-s (a FIP- of 100 is average; lower is better):

90
99
102
111
113
146
105

While it might've been nice to get something more than Wily Mo, Arroyo would've been crushed if he stayed in the AL East.

Perhaps, but he was still better than Matt Clement, and more durable too.

Sometimes you don't need a great pitcher, but an average pitcher that lasts you the whole year.

FriarReb98: Lackey.

Already explained this

FriarReb98: Matsuzaka, the "worst 18-3 pitcher ever" (forget who said it, but it's true)

Matsuzaka has been bad. Did you know that he would be before he was signed?

It was a gamble. When you have a lot of money, that's something you can do.

FriarReb98: Trading away Masterson & Arroyo before figuring out if they were good or not.

Again, both Masterson & Arroyo have been average pitchers away from Boston, with the exception of one good season each,

FriarReb98: The Lowe thing. (FWIW, he'd be better than Lackey or Matsuzaka ever have been in Boston).

Not totally sure what you mean here, but, just in case, his FIP-s since leaving Boston:

99
83
90
77
97
99
98
107

Better than the other two guys, so I can give you letting him go to the Dodgers, even including the two draft picks the sox got in exchange.

FriarReb98: Bobby Jenks.

I assume you predicted the injuries & DWI?

FriarReb98: Colon.

I don't even understand why this is on the list. He was decent when healthy and cheap.

FriarReb98: GAGNE.

Yeah, you're talking to someone who still thinks the Gagne deal was good for the Sox. But, hey, if a 67 FIP- isn't good enough for you, who am I to argue?

FriarReb98: The dicking around with Bard, Miller, etc.

These don't even make sense. The only "dicking around" with Bard came after Theo left. And the "dicking around" with Miller has resulted in a decent bullpen arm.

FriarReb98: Brad Penny

Same situation as Colon, except a bit more expensive and a bit less injured. Not seeing the issue.

FriarReb98: A 42 year old John Smoltz.

Who went on to be pretty dang good after he left Boston. Is that the GM or the pitching coach?

FriarReb98: Add all that up with the general ineffectiveness of the bullpen when it counts in every year not named 2004 or 2007

Red Sox bullpen FIP-s, 2001 - 2011, in increasing order:

82
88
88
89
90
90
91
91
93
97
106

Your task: figure out which of those numbers represent 2004 and 2007. I'm sure it'll be easy, right?

Dinobot: Perhaps, but he was still better than Matt Clement, and more durable too.

Clement getting hit in the head and never fully recovering was predictable? Because he was at least as good as Arroyo before that happened.

Dinobot: Sometimes you don't need a great pitcher, but an average pitcher that lasts you the whole year.

Those don't help much in the playoffs. If you're a team like the Sox, you should be looking to turn average innings eaters into good pitchers who might not pitch as much. You can afford a little more depth, just in case.

As a Mariner's fan, I look forward to not having the worst team in the AL West next year.

/maybe, hopefully

DeWayne Mann: Dinobot: Perhaps, but he was still better than Matt Clement, and more durable too.

Clement getting hit in the head and never fully recovering was predictable? Because he was at least as good as Arroyo before that happened.

Dinobot: Sometimes you don't need a great pitcher, but an average pitcher that lasts you the whole year.

Those don't help much in the playoffs. If you're a team like the Sox, you should be looking to turn average innings eaters into good pitchers who might not pitch as much. You can afford a little more depth, just in case.

Yeah, and when we had depth, Theo traded it away for Willy Mo... because he had excess pitchers...