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   "Voters in Pennsylvania are not required to show an ID or to have one, but they are going to be asked if they have one by poll workers." Makes total sense

06 Nov 2012 10:08 PM   |   4240 clicks   |   Patch
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whistleridge    [TotalFark]  
Sigh.

Ok...one more time:

Voting is a right, not a privilege. That means you don't have to pay to do it, and while the state can regulate it, the conditions that it places on the voter should be minimal.

So, for example, you have to show ID or otherwise establish your identity (utility bill, what have you) and residency when you register to vote. However, you can't be required to pay a tax. Being required to present an ID that costs money amounts to a poll tax. A state-issued ID like a driver's license certainly expedites the process, but it can't. be. required. If you have a birth certificate or a social security card, that is enough. If it's good enough to get a driver's license, it's good enough to establish your identity for voting purposes.

After you have registered, the ID is redundant; you are registered, and that registration is sufficient. It's similar to how you need a birth certificate and a social security card to get a driver's license, but that after you don't need to carry them because the license is enough to establish that you met those requirements.

Now, with that being said, if the states wanted to embrace the expense of issuing hard-plastic photo-bearing voter registration cards, they would be entirely free to do so. In fact, if they were truly only concerned about preventing voter fraud, they would happily embrace that cost as being part of the price of liberty. However,they don't. Instead, they (sensibly) opt for the cheapest method possible: a little piece of paper.

And that's exactly as it should be: as often as people move, etc, states that issued such cards would spend a fortune on the damn things. It's ok to do that with driver's licenses, because those are privileges, and so that cost can be passed along to the driver. That the state doesn't choose to spend that kind of money to provide ironclad voter registration cards isn't the voter's problem, however; they have met their part of the voting arrangement by registering, and the courts have repeatedly ruled that further ID requirements represent an undue burden.

/ it's almost as those this whole ID bs isn't really about preventing voter fraud at all
// after all...what price can the state place on liberty?

06 Nov 2012 07:10 PM
SilentStrider    [TotalFark]  
Yeah, I was asked.
I wish I'd gone with my first instinct, which was to say "You don't need to see my identification" while waving my hand.
Unfortunately, I forgot to do that. I did say no on the ID though, since this law is utterly asinine.

06 Nov 2012 07:25 PM
usernameguy     
Turmoil in PA over voter ID law.

It doesn't matter what the people want. Romney is going to win PA, OH, and FL.

06 Nov 2012 07:35 PM
nekom    [TotalFark]  
I was asked for ID. I showed it. I know I didn't have to, but I just wanted to get it done.

/Gobama

06 Nov 2012 07:55 PM
bluorangefyre    [TotalFark]  
Poll workers had 'ID REQUIRED' on their paperwork at my polling location.

06 Nov 2012 08:25 PM
cheap_thoughts     

whistleridge: Sigh.

Ok...one more time:

Voting is a right, not a privilege. That means you don't have to pay to do it, and while the state can regulate it, the conditions that it places on the voter should be minimal.

So, for example, you have to show ID or otherwise establish your identity (utility bill, what have you) and residency when you register to vote. However, you can't be required to pay a tax. Being required to present an ID that costs money amounts to a poll tax. A state-issued ID like a driver's license certainly expedites the process, but it can't. be. required. If you have a birth certificate or a social security card, that is enough. If it's good enough to get a driver's license, it's good enough to establish your identity for voting purposes.

After you have registered, the ID is redundant; you are registered, and that registration is sufficient. It's similar to how you need a birth certificate and a social security card to get a driver's license, but that after you don't need to carry them because the license is enough to establish that you met those requirements.

Now, with that being said, if the states wanted to embrace the expense of issuing hard-plastic photo-bearing voter registration cards, they would be entirely free to do so. In fact, if they were truly only concerned about preventing voter fraud, they would happily embrace that cost as being part of the price of liberty. However,they don't. Instead, they (sensibly) opt for the cheapest method possible: a little piece of paper.

And that's exactly as it should be: as often as people move, etc, states that issued such cards would spend a fortune on the damn things. It's ok to do that with driver's licenses, because those are privileges, and so that cost can be passed along to the driver. That the state doesn't choose to spend that kind of money to provide ironclad voter registration cards isn't the voter's problem, however; they have met their part of the voting arrangement by registering, and the courts have repeatedly ruled that further ID requirements represent an undue burden.

/ it's almost as those this whole ID bs isn't really about preventing voter fraud at all
// after all...what price can the state place on liberty?


Pretty much what I've been saying...

06 Nov 2012 08:34 PM
gremlin1    [TotalFark]  
My polling location was handing out little pamphlets about what kind of ID would be required for the next election and then proceeded to ask for ID.

06 Nov 2012 08:57 PM
cretinbob     
Anything to keep those people from voting.

06 Nov 2012 09:29 PM
Mugato    [TotalFark]  
They didn't take my ID but then I'm in Florida so I didn't expect a fair election.

06 Nov 2012 09:29 PM
JasonOfOrillia    [TotalFark]  
Meh, most people are honest.

06 Nov 2012 10:09 PM
Englebert Slaptyback     

Makes total sense


Yes, it does. "Do you have..." is not the same as "You must have...". Like submitter, the concept is quite simple.

06 Nov 2012 10:11 PM
Fano     
Well, that will catch the nervous types of fraudulent voters

06 Nov 2012 10:11 PM
Hot Rod Zoidberg     
Philadelphia here: no one even asked for my ID, even though I planned to refuse showing it.

06 Nov 2012 10:11 PM
davidphogan     

bluorangefyre: Poll workers had 'ID REQUIRED' on their paperwork at my polling location.


I love Oregon. I get my ballot, fill it out, and drop it off at the library. So easy.

The rest of the country should try it. The only downside is that more people vote.

06 Nov 2012 10:13 PM
whatshisname     

whistleridge: After you have registered, the ID is redundant; you are registered, and that registration is sufficient.


Do you get some sort of form when you register? One form per voter?
I assume so or anyone could walk into the polling station and claim to be you.

06 Nov 2012 10:13 PM
blindy the pirate     
I just walked up to the correct line, gave my ID, let the little old poll lady find me in the book, signed and got my ballot. I don't have a problem showing my ID, but I do understand people who do. If the state wants an ID to vote, they should be paying for it, that makes since.

06 Nov 2012 10:14 PM
cfffffgagffacfacfacfacfacccccfcaaffff     
Pennsylvanians are known liars. I should know, I'm from Pennsylvania.

06 Nov 2012 10:15 PM
NewportBarGuy    [TotalFark]  
I didn't want to show ID at the polls because I think this whole thing is a stupid waste of time and money to placate mouth-breathing retards who can't fathom why more people don't believe the same retarded bullsh*t they do. So, it MUST be voter fraud.

No, f*ck that. Put it back the way it was.

I showed the ID because it's the law in my state. Don't fall for this trap in yours.

06 Nov 2012 10:16 PM
FuLinHyu    [TotalFark]  
Dumb ol people are dumb

06 Nov 2012 10:18 PM
Alleyoop     
"We don't need no steenkin ID!"

www.rudebadmood.comView Full Size

06 Nov 2012 10:21 PM
bborchar     
I refused to show mine when they asked, and they were ticked off by it and tried to say "well, you'll have to show it next time!" I was like "okay, well, I'll show it then". I made them mad.

06 Nov 2012 10:22 PM
Britney Spear's Speculum     

06 Nov 2012 10:24 PM
meyerkev     
Here in MI, we have something similar.

You need a photo id, but if you don't have one, you just sign an affidavit saying you are who you say you are (thus making the laws constitutional).

/Had a couple people without photo id's matching their address. Unless it was obvious they didn't live in the city (had one girl with screwed up registration who lived an hour away, and was still registered at her old address in my precinct who ended up voting with us), we treated it as lacking an id, and just had them sign the affadavit.

06 Nov 2012 10:25 PM
debug     
This has been the policy for the last couple elections in PA.

06 Nov 2012 10:26 PM
Guidette Frankentits     
MINNESOTA: Gay marriage amendment: 56% no 10% reporting
Voter ID: 53% no 10% reporting
Bachmann: 51/49 25% reporting

06 Nov 2012 10:26 PM
snowshovel     
actually its not a right. It's not in the constitution. Just that if your state does allow you to vote, you better have an ID.

06 Nov 2012 10:28 PM
meyerkev     

meyerkev: Here in MI, we have something similar.

You need a photo id, but if you don't have one, you just sign an affidavit saying you are who you say you are (thus making the laws constitutional).

/Had a couple people without photo id's matching their address. Unless it was obvious they didn't live in the city (had one girl with screwed up registration who lived an hour away, and was still registered at her old address in my precinct who ended up voting with us), we treated it as lacking an id, and just had them sign the affadavit.


Should also mention that the people had better have been on our list with matching name and birthdate. If that didn't match, they got either kicked out, or forwarded to the help desk (and then usually kicked out)

06 Nov 2012 10:30 PM
Gyrfalcon    [TotalFark]  
"I have one. It's just not mine."

06 Nov 2012 10:33 PM
andrewagill     

usernameguy: Turmoil in PA over voter ID law.

It doesn't matter what the people want. Romney is going to win PA, OH, and FL.


With 6,702 of 9,250 precincts reporting, PA is 55/43 for Obama.

06 Nov 2012 10:35 PM
bmihura     
If you can't prove how you or anybody else voted after the voting happens, how do you know your vote counted?

Correct answer: it doesn't count, stop bothering.

06 Nov 2012 10:35 PM
FredaDeStilleto     

bborchar: I refused to show mine when they asked, and they were ticked off by it and tried to say "well, you'll have to show it next time!" I was like "okay, well, I'll show it then". I made them mad.


The election official asked if I had an ID. Told her I did. She didn;t "ask" to see it - she demanded to see it. Told her no, TYVM. Thought she was going to slap me in the face with the voter ID info-paper.

06 Nov 2012 10:36 PM
fb-'s grown sperm     

whistleridge: Sigh.

Ok...one more time:

Voting is a right, not a privilege. That means you don't have to pay to do it, and while the state can regulate it, the conditions that it places on the voter should be minimal.

So, for example, you have to show ID or otherwise establish your identity (utility bill, what have you) and residency when you register to vote. However, you can't be required to pay a tax. Being required to present an ID that costs money amounts to a poll tax. A state-issued ID like a driver's license certainly expedites the process, but it can't. be. required. If you have a birth certificate or a social security card, that is enough. If it's good enough to get a driver's license, it's good enough to establish your identity for voting purposes.

After you have registered, the ID is redundant; you are registered, and that registration is sufficient. It's similar to how you need a birth certificate and a social security card to get a driver's license, but that after you don't need to carry them because the license is enough to establish that you met those requirements.

Now, with that being said, if the states wanted to embrace the expense of issuing hard-plastic photo-bearing voter registration cards, they would be entirely free to do so. In fact, if they were truly only concerned about preventing voter fraud, they would happily embrace that cost as being part of the price of liberty. However,they don't. Instead, they (sensibly) opt for the cheapest method possible: a little piece of paper.

And that's exactly as it should be: as often as people move, etc, states that issued such cards would spend a fortune on the damn things. It's ok to do that with driver's licenses, because those are privileges, and so that cost can be passed along to the driver. That the state doesn't choose to spend that kind of money to provide ironclad voter registration cards isn't the voter's problem, however; they have met their part of the voting arrangement by registering, and the cou ...


PA voter here. There were flyers all over my voting station that spelled out the issue in plain English, and explained that PennDOT will issue a non-driver ID for free to any PA resident. I was also not asked for my ID, nor was the old lady ahead of me or the one behind me.

06 Nov 2012 10:37 PM
SearchN     

SilentStrider: Yeah, I was asked.
I wish I'd gone with my first instinct, which was to say "You don't need to see my identification" while waving my hand.
Unfortunately, I forgot to do that. I did say no on the ID though, since this law is utterly asinine.


I did. I was told it was required. My next statement was simple: OK, what was the problem in Arizona about then?

/Why yes, I did troll the poll workers today. Thanks for asking.

06 Nov 2012 10:44 PM
James F. Campbell     

Englebert Slaptyback: Makes total sense


Yes, it does. "Do you have..." is not the same as "You must have...". Like submitter, the concept is quite simple.


So what's it like being an antidemocratic proto-jackbooted turd?

06 Nov 2012 10:47 PM
NewportBarGuy    [TotalFark]  

snowshovel: It's not in the constitution.


Neither is breathing.

06 Nov 2012 10:48 PM
QAfarker     
If you cant get your life in order long enough to scrape together a few bucks for the ID and the time, you probably shouldnt be voting.

06 Nov 2012 10:48 PM
SilentStrider    [TotalFark]  

SearchN: SilentStrider: Yeah, I was asked.
I wish I'd gone with my first instinct, which was to say "You don't need to see my identification" while waving my hand.
Unfortunately, I forgot to do that. I did say no on the ID though, since this law is utterly asinine.

I did. I was told it was required. My next statement was simple: OK, what was the problem in Arizona about then?

/Why yes, I did troll the poll workers today. Thanks for asking.


I didn't. Figured the old people didn't need my smartassery tonight.

06 Nov 2012 10:51 PM
scubamage     

QAfarker: If you cant get your life in order long enough to scrape together a few bucks for the ID and the time, you probably shouldnt be voting.


I'll let you tell those handicapped, bedridden veterans that. Or the elderly folks who don't have ready access to transportation and may have an ID, but it is several years expired.

But first I'll tell you you're an idiot.

06 Nov 2012 10:52 PM
i.r.id10t     

whistleridge: Sigh.

Ok...one more time:

Voting is a right, not a privilege. That means you don't have to pay to do it, and while the state can regulate it, the conditions that it places on the voter should be minimal.

So, for example, you have to show ID or otherwise establish your identity (utility bill, what have you) and residency when you register to vote. However, you can't be required to pay a tax. Being required to present an ID that costs money amounts to a poll tax. A state-issued ID like a driver's license certainly expedites the process, but it can't. be. required. If you have a birth certificate or a social security card, that is enough. If it's good enough to get a driver's license, it's good enough to establish your identity for voting purposes.

After you have registered, the ID is redundant; you are registered, and that registration is sufficient. It's similar to how you need a birth certificate and a social security card to get a driver's license, but that after you don't need to carry them because the license is enough to establish that you met those requirements.

Now, with that being said, if the states wanted to embrace the expense of issuing hard-plastic photo-bearing voter registration cards, they would be entirely free to do so. In fact, if they were truly only concerned about preventing voter fraud, they would happily embrace that cost as being part of the price of liberty. However,they don't. Instead, they (sensibly) opt for the cheapest method possible: a little piece of paper.

And that's exactly as it should be: as often as people move, etc, states that issued such cards would spend a fortune on the damn things. It's ok to do that with driver's licenses, because those are privileges, and so that cost can be passed along to the driver. That the state doesn't choose to spend that kind of money to provide ironclad voter registration cards isn't the voter's problem, however; they have met their part of the voting arrangement by registering, and the cou ...


Thats funny, there are rights that are taxed... there is an 11% excise tax on every gun (and a lot of hunting/fishing/camping stuff) manufactured, as well as the various NFA tax stamps.

Showing an ID to vote? Love this one ...

2.bp.blogspot.comView Full Size

06 Nov 2012 10:52 PM
SpeedingLunatic     
I was required to show ID to vote in PA today. They said it's because it was the first time I've voted since I moved here.

06 Nov 2012 10:59 PM
hasty ambush     

06 Nov 2012 11:00 PM
Smackledorfer     

meyerkev: Here in MI, we have something similar.

You need a photo id, but if you don't have one, you just sign an affidavit saying you are who you say you are (thus making the laws constitutional).

/Had a couple people without photo id's matching their address. Unless it was obvious they didn't live in the city (had one girl with screwed up registration who lived an hour away, and was still registered at her old address in my precinct who ended up voting with us), we treated it as lacking an id, and just had them sign the affadavit.


Ya. I was going to give them trouble for initially saying it was mandatory but then I realized it took less time to get out my wallet than sign the back of the form just to argue with volunteers easily 60+.

06 Nov 2012 11:02 PM
Surly_Duff    [TotalFark]  
Bucks County, PA here. I was not asked for ID, but I knew the poll workers at my voting location.

Later in the day I drove a woman with vision impairments to a different polling location. I accompanied her through the process. One poll worker tried to bully her about her ID, and I had to call over the judge that was present to put the poll worker in her place.

06 Nov 2012 11:03 PM
QAfarker     

scubamage: QAfarker: If you cant get your life in order long enough to scrape together a few bucks for the ID and the time, you probably shouldnt be voting.

I'll let you tell those handicapped, bedridden veterans that. Or the elderly folks who don't have ready access to transportation and may have an ID, but it is several years expired.

But first I'll tell you you're an idiot.


Exceptions for every rule, geesh calm down. Besides most people you mentioned will already have some form of ID, bedridden veterans and handicapped folks are not rounded up and put into places as Jane and John Doe 1,2,3, etc. For your elderly folks odds are an expired ID will still look close enough so Bob Smith probably is Bob Smith, just the Bob in front of you looks older. If your an able bodied person, getting an ID is not hard or expensive.

06 Nov 2012 11:05 PM
CapeBeachbum     
We weren't asked for ID in MA.

06 Nov 2012 11:06 PM
Taylor Mental     
The poll worker did the same thing to me this morning and I was all was prepared to cite the law with a printout from the Sec State's office but she didn't press the point. Just had to show my registration card.

06 Nov 2012 11:06 PM
NewportBarGuy    [TotalFark]  

Surly_Duff: Later in the day I drove a woman with vision impairments to a different polling location. I accompanied her through the process.


Thank you for doing that. You are a good person.

06 Nov 2012 11:10 PM
Surly_Duff    [TotalFark]  

QAfarker: scubamage: QAfarker: If you cant get your life in order long enough to scrape together a few bucks for the ID and the time, you probably shouldnt be voting.

I'll let you tell those handicapped, bedridden veterans that. Or the elderly folks who don't have ready access to transportation and may have an ID, but it is several years expired.

But first I'll tell you you're an idiot.

Exceptions for every rule, geesh calm down. Besides most people you mentioned will already have some form of ID, bedridden veterans and handicapped folks are not rounded up and put into places as Jane and John Doe 1,2,3, etc. For your elderly folks odds are an expired ID will still look close enough so Bob Smith probably is Bob Smith, just the Bob in front of you looks older. If your an able bodied person, getting an ID is not hard or expensive.


In regards to your comment about elderly voters above, it is critical to note that PA was not going to accept expired IDs. So it wouldn't matter that the person looked like an older version of their photo... if the ID was more than 12months expired, the person could not vote.

PA has the largest percentage of aged population in the country. Why should an elderly person living in a retirement or assisted living community have to pay to maintain a valid license if they cannot drive? How would they make arrangements to deal with the vagarities of PENNdot?

06 Nov 2012 11:13 PM
Boxcutta     
How about my tax dollars that went for a campaign on mass transit and billboards stating "Bring ID. You will be asked for, but not required to provide, a photo ID on election day."

Morans.

06 Nov 2012 11:44 PM
Surly_Duff    [TotalFark]  

NewportBarGuy: Surly_Duff: Later in the day I drove a woman with vision impairments to a different polling location. I accompanied her through the process.

Thank you for doing that. You are a good person.


Thanks, NBG... but really it is the well-organized Democrat party leaders in Bucks County who deserve the kudos. I'm just a run of the mill volunteer. They could have just as easily assigned me to be an annoying canvasser or call banker (which is what I did prior to today). It was luck of the draw that I got assigned to help out Audrey... and luck it was, because she was a supercool lady. But those organizers were the ones who knew about her needs (and those of others like her) and dispatched assistace.

07 Nov 2012 12:01 AM
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