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   Illinois Supreme Court will decide whether the rent-a-cop who pulls you over for violating your HOA's speed limit is guilty of false imprisonment

10 Nov 2012 02:10 PM   |   6957 clicks   |   JD Supra
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bwilson27     
Lock em all up.

10 Nov 2012 02:11 PM
special20    [TotalFark]  
Good, somebody has to do something about all those annoying mailbox stuffers.

10 Nov 2012 02:12 PM
LeglessDog     
I'd like to see him catch me in the first place . . .

10 Nov 2012 02:12 PM
DeathCipris     
Security Personnel are not Police Officers.
Soooo, no.
This would open the door for any yahoo with a radar gun to pretend to be police.

10 Nov 2012 02:16 PM
Quaker     
Who actually pulls over for a rent-a-cop?

10 Nov 2012 02:18 PM
bwilson27     
Say I live out on the interstate and my neighbor and I form an HOA and decide to do what these pricks have done-Make up speed limit rules. Am I allowed to then stop cars exceeding my arbitrary limit, and can we pocket the cash we make? Cause that would be sweet.

10 Nov 2012 02:18 PM
NIXON YOU DOLT!!!!!     
Interesting.......

If the association had no authority to detain, then the motorist shouldn't have stopped in the first place.

However, taking and holding his license then prevented the motorist from leaving.

However, the motorist handed the license over voluntarily, and then never said anything about wanting it back or wanting to leave.....

However, most HOA's need to DIAF.

And, seriously, how high do your HOA fees have to be to support a PRIVATE FARKING SECURITY FORCE?

The HOA would be better off entering into an agreement with the local police whereby the HOA pays the salary for an officer to be dedicated to patrol their neighborhood, much like small cities do to county sheriff's offices when they can't afford to maintain their own police force.

I think.

IANAL, and now my head hurts.

10 Nov 2012 02:18 PM
abhorrent1     
If your not a sworn Police Officer and you try and pull me over, I will not stop. And if you put your hands on me, I will do my best to kick the ever-loving shiat out of you.

/i know
//itgmagazine.jpg

10 Nov 2012 02:20 PM
JosephFinn     
I'd be mildly surprised if the Supremes didn't hold up everything but the recording bit (yeah, if you're told you're being recorded but continue talking, that's implicit). But everything else, that HOA is going down on.

10 Nov 2012 02:20 PM
NIXON YOU DOLT!!!!!     

bwilson27: Say I live out on the interstate and my neighbor and I form an HOA and decide to do what these pricks have done-Make up speed limit rules. Am I allowed to then stop cars exceeding my arbitrary limit, and can we pocket the cash we make? Cause that would be sweet.


The difference is the streets in the HOA may not be owned, funded, or maintained by any governmental entity. Some HOA's go so far into being a quasi-municipal government unto themselves that their boards are actually elected in real public elections ran by the Supervisor of Elections for the County.

So...if they can set rules for lenght of grass and color of your house, why can't, if the covenants allow it, they set rules to regulate conducte on their streets?

10 Nov 2012 02:20 PM
abhorrent1     
Ugh! You're!

10 Nov 2012 02:21 PM
ThatGuyFromTheInternet     
Damn Burbclaves. DRTFA, but I assume it was either Enforcers of Meta-Cops.

10 Nov 2012 02:22 PM
randomjsa     

Quaker: Who actually pulls over for a rent-a-cop?


Flashing blue lights? I'd pull over too. Long enough to see who it was and then once I realized who it was I'd drive off.

10 Nov 2012 02:25 PM
bwilson27     

randomjsa: Quaker: Who actually pulls over for a rent-a-cop?

Flashing blue lights? I'd pull over too. Long enough to see who it was and then once I realized who it was I'd drive off.


While laughing and flippin them the bird.

10 Nov 2012 02:26 PM
ScotterOtter     
I'm all for bashing HOAs, but if you don't like them, don't live where there is one! Or, if you do, attend the dang meetings and vote. And, read your CC&Rs!!!! My first townhouse had a small HOA where one vote held a lot of weight. About 1/8th of owners showed up for meetings so they never voted and were also the ones who complained the most. I lived there barely a year, got a place with no HOA

10 Nov 2012 02:26 PM
ThatGuyFromTheInternet     

randomjsa: Quaker: Who actually pulls over for a rent-a-cop?

Flashing blue lights? I'd pull over too. Long enough to see who it was and then once I realized who it was I'd drive off.


I've never seen them use blue lights in the US before. Unless they're also the Ghostbusters.

10 Nov 2012 02:26 PM
abhorrent1     

randomjsa: Flashing blue lights? I'd pull over too. Long enough to see who it was and then once I realized who it was I'd drive off.


Most states have laws about what color lights you can use. I don't think just anyone can use blue and/or red lights.

10 Nov 2012 02:27 PM
NIXON YOU DOLT!!!!!     

randomjsa: Quaker: Who actually pulls over for a rent-a-cop?

Flashing blue lights? I'd pull over too. Long enough to see who it was and then once I realized who it was I'd drive off.


Didn't the article say amber, not blue?

Also, protip: When being pulled over, if you even REMOTELY question the identity of the individual pulling you, call 911.

10 Nov 2012 02:28 PM
Silly Jesus     
Yeah this doesn't work. All going to be upheld, except for the audio thing.

I'm curious though about the false imprisonment bit...I think that the court weighed heavily the fact that the guy was wearing a uniform and badge and utility belt...but if I walked up to someone just wearing plain clothes and said "hey, don't leave", would I be able to be charged with the quite serious felony of false imprisonment if the person was stupid enough to obey me for no reason?

10 Nov 2012 02:34 PM
Spiralmonkey    [TotalFark]  
UK farker here, so no idea how HOAs work in practice (they sound a lot more militant than the average residents association), so who pays for them? Is it the residents of the area? In which case I would be incredibly angry that money was being spent on flashy lights and fake police cars. How do they get so much power?

10 Nov 2012 02:35 PM
Avery614     

LeglessDog: I'd like to see him catch me in the first place . . .


Seriously, if you are trying to pull me over with a yellow dome light I am very likely to take that as a challenge....I only pull over for 2 colors and yellow ain't one of them.

10 Nov 2012 02:39 PM
LordPistachio     
I always pull over when I see a amber lamps in my mirror.

10 Nov 2012 02:39 PM
Silly Jesus     

Spiralmonkey: UK farker here, so no idea how HOAs work in practice (they sound a lot more militant than the average residents association), so who pays for them? Is it the residents of the area? In which case I would be incredibly angry that money was being spent on flashy lights and fake police cars. How do they get so much power?


Yes, the residents pay, and they vote for what the money goes toward. Basically only morons move into such places because nonsense like this almost always happens.

10 Nov 2012 02:39 PM
downstairs    [TotalFark]  

abhorrent1: randomjsa: Flashing blue lights? I'd pull over too. Long enough to see who it was and then once I realized who it was I'd drive off.

Most states have laws about what color lights you can use. I don't think just anyone can use blue and/or red lights.



True.  Down here you can't have ANY blue lights on your car.  Not even underneith the car.  My friend got pulled over for that and they made him eventually remove the blue lights under the car.

10 Nov 2012 02:41 PM
Silly Jesus     

LordPistachio: I always pull over when I see a amber lamps in my mirror.


i800.photobucket.comView Full Size

10 Nov 2012 02:41 PM
Silly Jesus     

downstairs: abhorrent1: randomjsa: Flashing blue lights? I'd pull over too. Long enough to see who it was and then once I realized who it was I'd drive off.

Most states have laws about what color lights you can use. I don't think just anyone can use blue and/or red lights.


True.  Down here you can't have ANY blue lights on your car.  Not even underneith the car.  My friend got pulled over for that and they made him eventually remove the blue lights under the car.


Morons around here get blue LED's for their windshield washer fluid sprayer things on their hood and then get pulled over for them and busted for drugs etc.

10 Nov 2012 02:42 PM
thisone     

Silly Jesus: Spiralmonkey: UK farker here, so no idea how HOAs work in practice (they sound a lot more militant than the average residents association), so who pays for them? Is it the residents of the area? In which case I would be incredibly angry that money was being spent on flashy lights and fake police cars. How do they get so much power?

Yes, the residents pay, and they vote for what the money goes toward. Basically only morons move into such places because nonsense like this almost always happens.


We do have them to at least a small extent in the UK. I live on a private estate (sounds much fancier than it is) and we pay a monthly fee that goes to upkeep of roads, pedestrian paths and common land.

No body tells us what we can and can't do, and they have no authority to enforce any rules, except by power of annoyance.

However, the reason we're a private estate is not because we want to be, but because the local council won't annex us until x, y, and z condition are fulfilled.

Fingers crossed by 2016.

10 Nov 2012 02:44 PM
Fark Rye For Many Whores     
ts4.mm.bing.netView Full Size

10 Nov 2012 02:49 PM
abhorrent1     
I wonder.. Could you call the real cops and have them arrested for impersonating a law enforcement officer?

10 Nov 2012 02:51 PM
Cyrus the Mediocre    [TotalFark]  

Spiralmonkey: UK farker here, so no idea how HOAs work in practice (they sound a lot more militant than the average residents association), so who pays for them? Is it the residents of the area? In which case I would be incredibly angry that money was being spent on flashy lights and fake police cars. How do they get so much power?


HOAs are like the trade unions of neighborhoods. If you want to live in a specific neighborhood, you have to join it. The major difference is that, unlike unions, HOAs were created to uphold property values, not homeowner's rights.

10 Nov 2012 02:55 PM
Phoenix87ta     

abhorrent1: I wonder.. Could you call the real cops and have them arrested for impersonating a law enforcement officer?


In theory or in actual practice?

10 Nov 2012 02:58 PM
cig-mkr     
Citizen and Konrad, be one of the sheeple and obey our rule, it is for your benefit we do these things.
We are only thinking of you!

10 Nov 2012 03:00 PM
Ima4nic8or     
yet another reason to ban HOAs

10 Nov 2012 03:01 PM
Spiralmonkey    [TotalFark]  

thisone: Silly Jesus: Spiralmonkey: UK farker here, so no idea how HOAs work in practice (they sound a lot more militant than the average residents association), so who pays for them? Is it the residents of the area? In which case I would be incredibly angry that money was being spent on flashy lights and fake police cars. How do they get so much power?

Yes, the residents pay, and they vote for what the money goes toward. Basically only morons move into such places because nonsense like this almost always happens.

We do have them to at least a small extent in the UK. I live on a private estate (sounds much fancier than it is) and we pay a monthly fee that goes to upkeep of roads, pedestrian paths and common land.

No body tells us what we can and can't do, and they have no authority to enforce any rules, except by power of annoyance.

However, the reason we're a private estate is not because we want to be, but because the local council won't annex us until x, y, and z condition are fulfilled.

Fingers crossed by 2016.


Yeah, I used to live on a private estate too, and paid a management fee for grass cutting and whatever, the reason I asked was I cannot imagine a scenario where I would willingly pay for someone to drive around pretending to be a police officer. The estate where I lived was unadopted by the council so we paid for it ourselves until such time as it was adopted, but the full extent of the power of the residents association was to ask people not to plant big trees in front of their houses or near their neighbour's boundary and to keep their dogs on a leash and pick up the poo. That was about it I think - not really the draconian dystopia that you hear about with some US HOAs.

10 Nov 2012 03:02 PM
Skirl Hutsenreiter     

thisone: Silly Jesus: Spiralmonkey: UK farker here, so no idea how HOAs work in practice (they sound a lot more militant than the average residents association), so who pays for them? Is it the residents of the area? In which case I would be incredibly angry that money was being spent on flashy lights and fake police cars. How do they get so much power?

Yes, the residents pay, and they vote for what the money goes toward. Basically only morons move into such places because nonsense like this almost always happens.

We do have them to at least a small extent in the UK. I live on a private estate (sounds much fancier than it is) and we pay a monthly fee that goes to upkeep of roads, pedestrian paths and common land.

No body tells us what we can and can't do, and they have no authority to enforce any rules, except by power of annoyance.

However, the reason we're a private estate is not because we want to be, but because the local council won't annex us until x, y, and z condition are fulfilled.

Fingers crossed by 2016.


Usually they form here because the city doesn't want to be responsible for ongoing road / park maintenance and snow removal. The shiatty ones here also have the goal of maintaining property values by policing what you can do to the outside of your house. That's where you move if you don't mind having some busy body measuring your lawn height and making you repaint your house when you don't use one of the three approved colors.

10 Nov 2012 03:05 PM
DigitalCoffee     
Either way, the dude and the rest of the people in the HOA are screwed.

1. If the HOA wins, all the lawyer fees and expenses come out of the member dues = members get screwed

2. If the HOA loses, all the lawyer fees and expenses and fines/settlement come out of the member dues = members get screwed

/the only winning move is to not play

10 Nov 2012 03:16 PM
semiotix     

abhorrent1: If your not a sworn Police Officer and you try and pull me over, I will not stop. And if you put your hands on me, I will do my best to kick the ever-loving shiat out of you.

/i know
//itgmagazine.jpg


I'm so angry that you demonstrated a bit of self-awareness at the end of that post that if I ever find out who you are, so help me Chuck Norris, I will kill everything you ever loved.

10 Nov 2012 03:22 PM
KrispyKritter     
One doesn't have to be a wizard to make certain they are moving into an acceptable neighborhood. You want to be in Thad & Muffy Land so you can be at the gym in 26 minutes then you deserve to wallow in the hell you've bought in to with the rest of the pretentious pricks. Keep pretending your wife loves you, your daughter isn't a whore and your son isn't in love with the schools quarterback.

10 Nov 2012 03:25 PM
Kibbler     
I would pull over, and every time he said anything, I'd respond with "HEE HAW! HEE HAW!"

10 Nov 2012 03:27 PM
Emposter     

NIXON YOU DOLT!!!!!: bwilson27: Say I live out on the interstate and my neighbor and I form an HOA and decide to do what these pricks have done-Make up speed limit rules. Am I allowed to then stop cars exceeding my arbitrary limit, and can we pocket the cash we make? Cause that would be sweet.

The difference is the streets in the HOA may not be owned, funded, or maintained by any governmental entity. Some HOA's go so far into being a quasi-municipal government unto themselves that their boards are actually elected in real public elections ran by the Supervisor of Elections for the County.

So...if they can set rules for lenght of grass and color of your house, why can't, if the covenants allow it, they set rules to regulate conducte on their streets?


They can. It's not a question of what rules they set, it's how they enforce them.

10 Nov 2012 03:31 PM
runescorpio     

bwilson27: Say I live out on the interstate and my neighbor and I form an HOA and decide to do what these pricks have done-Make up speed limit rules. Am I allowed to then stop cars exceeding my arbitrary limit, and can we pocket the cash we make? Cause that would be sweet.


Own a long driveway? Put up a sign directing people to something obscure and since its private property not entirely accurate. Post a speed limit sign. Profit.

10 Nov 2012 03:50 PM
MBrady     

ThatGuyFromTheInternet: randomjsa: Quaker: Who actually pulls over for a rent-a-cop?

Flashing blue lights? I'd pull over too. Long enough to see who it was and then once I realized who it was I'd drive off.

I've never seen them use blue lights in the US before. Unless they're also the Ghostbusters.


Do they also use the crazy wailing siren as well?

Around here, blue lights are for volunteer fire fighters. You pull off to the side for them so that they can get to the station or to the fire location.

10 Nov 2012 04:01 PM
Tymast     
since when to HOAs make traffic laws ?

10 Nov 2012 04:41 PM
farkingatwork     

Tymast: since when to HOAs make traffic laws ?


ever since they made up law in their own imagination which had no bearing on reality, apparently.

10 Nov 2012 05:06 PM
NIXON YOU DOLT!!!!!     

Emposter: NIXON YOU DOLT!!!!!: bwilson27: Say I live out on the interstate and my neighbor and I form an HOA and decide to do what these pricks have done-Make up speed limit rules. Am I allowed to then stop cars exceeding my arbitrary limit, and can we pocket the cash we make? Cause that would be sweet.

The difference is the streets in the HOA may not be owned, funded, or maintained by any governmental entity. Some HOA's go so far into being a quasi-municipal government unto themselves that their boards are actually elected in real public elections ran by the Supervisor of Elections for the County.

So...if they can set rules for lenght of grass and color of your house, why can't, if the covenants allow it, they set rules to regulate conducte on their streets?

They can. It's not a question of what rules they set, it's how they enforce them.


Right, my point was that a private citizen setting up signs on a federal highway is not analogous to what happened here in terms is the speed limit existing.

10 Nov 2012 05:09 PM
randomjsa     

MBrady: Around here, blue lights are for volunteer fire fighters. You pull off to the side for them so that they can get to the station or to the fire location.


See here those are red. They have to be.

10 Nov 2012 05:12 PM
AndreMA     

NIXON YOU DOLT!!!!!: So...if they can set rules for lenght of grass and color of your house, why can't, if the covenants allow it, they set rules to regulate conducte on their streets?


Maybe the same reason you can be busted for DUI if you sit in your car in your own driveway shiatfaced. The public has access to the area, Not sure I agree with that standard, but it's pretty... uh, standard

10 Nov 2012 05:49 PM
Gyrfalcon    [TotalFark]  
Under tort law, "false imprisonment" occurs when someone is confined to an area (or is unable to leave) by intent, where he cannot leave by reasonable means.

So if the HOA covenants & conditions specifically state "You will stop for our security guards when they enforce the traffic regulations inside the gates" then there's no "false imprisonment" because the residents agreed to stop for the guards. And if they didn't, then there was no reason for them to stop in the first place, ergo, they could have left by "reasonable means" i.e. driving away whenever they felt like it....UNLESS the guards seemed to indicate by their actions that something else was going to happen if they did. If the guards said "Stay here or we'll call the cops," then it might be false imprisonment.

A lot of it depends on what the C&Cs said, and what the residents agreed to; and how the guards handled the stops if they were allowed.

10 Nov 2012 05:50 PM
orbister     

abhorrent1: If your not a sworn Police Officer and you try and pull me over, I will not stop. And if you put your hands on me, I will do my best to kick the ever-loving shiat out of you.


And then he will have every right to kill you, as long as you are (a) in Florida and (b) black.

10 Nov 2012 05:59 PM
redmid17    [TotalFark]  

Gyrfalcon: Under tort law, "false imprisonment" occurs when someone is confined to an area (or is unable to leave) by intent, where he cannot leave by reasonable means.

So if the HOA covenants & conditions specifically state "You will stop for our security guards when they enforce the traffic regulations inside the gates" then there's no "false imprisonment" because the residents agreed to stop for the guards. And if they didn't, then there was no reason for them to stop in the first place, ergo, they could have left by "reasonable means" i.e. driving away whenever they felt like it....UNLESS the guards seemed to indicate by their actions that something else was going to happen if they did. If the guards said "Stay here or we'll call the cops," then it might be false imprisonment.

A lot of it depends on what the C&Cs said, and what the residents agreed to; and how the guards handled the stops if they were allowed.


I'm going to take a wild guess here, but I'm guessing the trial court already took that into account and still passed summary judgment against the HOA.

10 Nov 2012 06:34 PM
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