If you can't pay, I'll bet there is a guy down the road who needs the same part (which is probably is short supply) that can pay. Taking things that you can't afford from other people that need it is called stealing.

RogermcAllen: Taking things that you can't afford from other people that need own it is called stealing.

Small change, but it makes all the difference in the world. Need is 100% irrelevant. Ownership is what matters.

RogermcAllen: If you can't pay, I'll bet there is a guy down the road who needs the same part (which is probably is short supply) that can pay. Taking things that you can't afford from other people that need it is called stealing.

And posting stupid stuff just to get responses is called trolling.

Those funny looking New Jersey women think they are entitled.

...and?

"If you allow so-called price gouging, then you're actually working in favor of the poor," said James Stacey Taylor, an associate professor of philosophy

whatisthisIdon'teven

Depends on the situation.

If you've got a part or service that you're pretty sure a) everyone desperately needs and b) will never ever need again once the crisis passes, then by all means, charge whatever you can get for it. You're going to need the money, because once the crisis is over, everyone will remember how you acted, and they're not going to use your business or service ever again.

However, if your business or service is local, or something that people are going to be using regularly after the crisis is over, you probably will want to moderate your prices. People will remember how they've been treated, and you may want the repeat work later on.

RogermcAllen: If you can't pay, I'll bet there is a guy down the road who needs the same part (which is probably is short supply) that can pay. Taking things that you can't afford from other people that need it is called stealing.


Wearing your thinking cap tonight I see.

Pay it on video. Ask for it back later.

Blackmail isn't just in office. Ask for the whole price back later.

Why would a thief have a banana over his head?

Critics say the rule is unfair to businesses, and it's contrary to market forces and the law of supply and demand.

Of course it is contrary to supply and demand. Emergency situations are recognized as reducing supply and substantially increasing demand while placing consumers in a position where health is threatened and therefore money becomes less important. Price gouging laws recognize and seek to prevent this.

As someone that used to do service plumbing I know that if I installed a part and the customer couldn't pay it was illegal for me to remove it.

ultraholland: "If you allow so-called price gouging, then you're actually working in favor of the poor," said James Stacey Taylor, an associate professor of philosophy

whatisthisIdon'teven

Way ahead of me. Saw that and just....eh....what? What the frak is this guy talking about?

i think the problem here is the "emergency pricing" surchage, and i hope that any icehole that price gouges is shown that its illegal. by the courts.

YAY CAPITALISM!

titwrench: As someone that used to do service plumbing I know that if I installed a part and the customer couldn't pay it was illegal for me to remove it.

They said exactly that at the bottom of the article. Once it's installed, the company can't just remove it.

FTFA:
"If you allow so-called price gouging, then you're actually working in favor of the poor," said James Stacey Taylor, an associate professor of philosophy at the College of New Jersey.

Translation: "I am suffering from cranio-rectal impaction, and I'm enjoying it."

/Don't quit your day job, J. Stacey.
//Because people are going to hoard generator parts.

Maybe a few days before a hurricane is the time to check whether your generator is working.

Obama is to blame for this. I just know it.

I agree with the law but allowing for a 20% markup would seem to be more in line at least on the labor. these folks are coming out in horrible conditions, don't the police and other union jobs get special pay for these types of emergencies?

Once it's installed, the generator company can't remove it. That's what mechanics liens are for. You won't be able to sell your house until you resolve the issue, but it keeps someone from 'stealing' the part back.

Waldo Pepper: I agree with the law but allowing for a 20% markup would seem to be more in line at least on the labor.

10% is the allowed increase over net cost which I'll venture to say includes hazard, overtime, etc., pay.

I read the article, and most of the comments on their forums. Sounds like the client was a dirtbag.

We have a service business. I've learned to verbally give rates over the phone and get their OK, before we roll a truck. If the new client seems hesitant but moves ahead, we take a rate sheet, which has their address and a spot to sign. If they don't sign; we walk. It's worth losing the time to/from then to get caught up in BS later on down the road.

Sounds like this guy tried to weasel out of his bill - again.

When Sandy knocked out power at Michael and Elizabeth Yamashiata's Chester home, the couple needed service to get their generator up and running.

i wonder to what extent the breakdown of modern civilization can be correlated with the misuse of the word 'need'.

What type of customer doesn't get an idea of pricing beforehand? What shady "professional" doesn't offer one without being asked beforehand?

I am assuming, of course, that the customer was all sorts of surprised to find out the price after the work was done.

I would follow the law, but the law should be changed. Don't buy products and services from people you don't like. I wouldn't compromise my ideals just because of a storm.

Vangor: Waldo Pepper: I agree with the law but allowing for a 20% markup would seem to be more in line at least on the labor.

10% is the allowed increase over net cost which I'll venture to say includes hazard, overtime, etc., pay.

what is net cost on labor?

one should expect a different price level for scheduled service as opposed to emergency service.

So rare for me to side with biz on issues like this, but after reading the article, the clients here sound like shiatbirds. I'm glad they removed the part. They didn't even charge the 10% over they were allowed with Sandy, just 'emergency' rates, which they clearly have listed AND INFORMED THE CLIENTS OF BEFOREHAND.

Don't think they're gonna get much local sympathy if they sue either. Not when there were farkers charging thousands to remove trees.

Satanic_Hamster: RogermcAllen: If you can't pay, I'll bet there is a guy down the road who needs the same part (which is probably is short supply) that can pay. Taking things that you can't afford from other people that need it is called stealing.

And posting stupid stuff just to get responses is called trolling.

crab66: RogermcAllen: If you can't pay, I'll bet there is a guy down the road who needs the same part (which is probably is short supply) that can pay. Taking things that you can't afford from other people that need it is called stealing.


Wearing your thinking cap tonight I see.

[silverclaygifts.com image 300x200]

I'm not trying to troll, maybe I am just not explaining things well.

Situation 1: A man steals a loaf of bread from a fully stocked bakery to feed his family.
Situation 2: A man steals a bakers last loaf of bread while hungry customers wait in line to purchase that last loaf.

I think most people can agree the first guy is stealing, but it isn't really that bad in the scheme of things.
The second guy is stealing, but on top of that he is a dick for taking something that other law abiding customers need to feed their families.

If the part was in short supply, he is a thief (special order leads me to think it was in short supply, labor was definitely in short supply).
If the part was off the shelf and the repairman could have been helping other customers instead of removing the part, then the repairman is a dick.

ZzeusS: I read the article, and most of the comments on their forums. Sounds like the client was a dirtbag.

We have a service business. I've learned to verbally give rates over the phone and get their OK, before we roll a truck. If the new client seems hesitant but moves ahead, we take a rate sheet, which has their address and a spot to sign. If they don't sign; we walk. It's worth losing the time to/from then to get caught up in BS later on down the road.

Sounds like this guy tried to weasel out of his bill - again.

Maybe they should have declined to service the generator rather than try to gouge them.

Waldo Pepper: what is net cost on labor?

Would be the labor itself. In this instance, there is a part and labor

EnderWiggnz: i think the problem here is the "emergency pricing" surchage, and i hope that any icehole that price gouges is shown that its illegal. by the courts.

Except it was their regular emergency rates, the same shiat anyone pays if they want someone in the middle of the night, instead of waiting. They didn't gouge. And I felt the article explained their side very convincingly.

The ones that do however? I'm in full agreement with you.

ultraholland: "If you allow so-called price gouging, then you're actually working in favor of the poor," said James Stacey Taylor, an associate professor of philosophy

whatisthisIdon'teven

Short answer: The law of supply and demand doesn't get suspended when a product is hard to find, and artificially keeping prices low removes a major incentive for people outside a disaster area to go to extra trouble to bring in supplies--thus gas and similar shortages.

Shouldn't they be allowed to set a higher price, that way the people and businesses that need immediate electricity be able to jump to the head of the line?

Wouldn't that give incentive to electricians outside of the area to temporarily work in NYC?

Why is the free market evil?

You have to remember to negotiate. Especially if its a emergency and your families life is on the line, not just comfort. If your life truly hangs in the balance and its not just a matter of irritation, then you can always find a way to negotiate the price and find something the person with what you need really holds valuable.

"See this baseball bat in my hand? Is that part as expensive as the dental care you will need if I forcibly remove all the teeth from your head? Yeah, I didn't think so."

chrylis: ultraholland: "If you allow so-called price gouging, then you're actually working in favor of the poor," said James Stacey Taylor, an associate professor of philosophy

whatisthisIdon'teven

Short answer: The law of supply and demand doesn't get suspended when a product is hard to find, and artificially keeping prices low removes a major incentive for people outside a disaster area to go to extra trouble to bring in supplies--thus gas and similar shortages.

Which, of course, ignores basic human decency of not raising your prices just because there's a disaster on and gouging people.

Lady Indica: EnderWiggnz: i think the problem here is the "emergency pricing" surchage, and i hope that any icehole that price gouges is shown that its illegal. by the courts.

Except it was their regular emergency rates, the same shiat anyone pays if they want someone in the middle of the night, instead of waiting. They didn't gouge. And I felt the article explained their side very convincingly.

The ones that do however? I'm in full agreement with you.

Three days later?
The customer accepted the bill under protest, and the company hit them with yet another bill for the service they'd billed before and failed to complete. Then they yanked the part out of a working generator? That's a suing. With damages.

I don't understand why they're treating electricity like water, food, or shelter. I bet there's at least 25 homes within a square mile of them without electricity. This was a generator. A luxury item. It's like comparing sleeping on the floor to sleeping on a mattress. Most people don't have generators. I don't know anyone in this neighborhood who has one. You can't say that taking away the mattress is basically sending them back to the stone age. Same goes for electricity. All their neighbors probably think they're a bunch of assholes for crying about having to eat off glassware instead of fine china while they eat off paper plates. It's just electricity, people. My power's been knocked out for 3 weeks. It sucks. Every try keeping a 7 year old non-verbal autistic kid happy for 3 weeks without electronics? Not cool, man. But, it's still not a necessity. If you're not a moron, it really is just a luxury that's pretty easy to live without for a bit. Just takes some creativity.

TL;DR:

Jeffrey Chiesa is a Commie.

Every year everyone has to run out and buy up all the snow shovels, generators etc. Where in the hell do all those end up that you can't use them the next year? Same with boots, gloves and driveway salt.
In the spring there is not a huge buy out of leaf blowers, shovels and lawn mowers.
We put the generator in working order in the garage when winter is over so we are prepared.

JosephFinn: chrylis: ultraholland: "If you allow so-called price gouging, then you're actually working in favor of the poor," said James Stacey Taylor, an associate professor of philosophy

whatisthisIdon'teven

Short answer: The law of supply and demand doesn't get suspended when a product is hard to find, and artificially keeping prices low removes a major incentive for people outside a disaster area to go to extra trouble to bring in supplies--thus gas and similar shortages.

Which, of course, ignores basic human decency of not raising your prices just because there's a disaster on and gouging people.

The problem is that people are assholes and don't think about the needs of others.

Cheap gas = people will waste it driving around to look at the destruction.
Expensive gas = people will only use gas where they need it.

They had a guy in NPR that was riding the free buses around to city just to rubberneck.

Why didn't they try it a few days before the storm came?
Mine, tests itself once a week.

After Superstorm Ivan in 2004, a local tire company in Pensacola fixed all flats for a week after the storm that were caused by nails, tacks, etc...for free. Even if you bought your tires somewhere else.

They have opened another branch since that time and are going strong at their other stores.

get real: Every year everyone has to run out and buy up all the snow shovels, generators etc. Where in the hell do all those end up that you can't use them the next year? Same with boots, gloves and driveway salt.
In the spring there is not a huge buy out of leaf blowers, shovels and lawn mowers.
We put the generator in working order in the garage when winter is over so we are prepared.

Well, normal people do this stuff. When I lived up in Tahoe, I usually had my emergency supplies in the trunk of my car at least by November. Down here, when I lived in places that didn't have A/C, I bought my floor fans in March or April.

But how many people are that smart? Almost none.

enry: ZzeusS: I read the article, and most of the comments on their forums. Sounds like the client was a dirtbag.

We have a service business. I've learned to verbally give rates over the phone and get their OK, before we roll a truck. If the new client seems hesitant but moves ahead, we take a rate sheet, which has their address and a spot to sign. If they don't sign; we walk. It's worth losing the time to/from then to get caught up in BS later on down the road.

Sounds like this guy tried to weasel out of his bill - again.

Maybe they should have declined to service the generator rather than try to gouge them.


Why? The client gave the OK to the work and decided to not pay, after. I'm not in the habit of declining paying jobs, either. Now, in this case, with a client that apparently was slow pay no pay, in an emergency situation, I would have asked for cash, or cash up front. Or Credit Card. No gouging, of course, but skin in the game.

demaL-demaL-yeH: Lady Indica: EnderWiggnz: i think the problem here is the "emergency pricing" surchage, and i hope that any icehole that price gouges is shown that its illegal. by the courts.

Except it was their regular emergency rates, the same shiat anyone pays if they want someone in the middle of the night, instead of waiting. They didn't gouge. And I felt the article explained their side very convincingly.

The ones that do however? I'm in full agreement with you.

Three days later?
The customer accepted the bill under protest, and the company hit them with yet another bill for the service they'd billed before and failed to complete. Then they yanked the part out of a working generator? That's a suing. With damages.


Yeah. That's the sticker. Situation like that, I would walk away and try to collect later. That's like pulling a part from a car. Actually.. I wonder what the rules on that are. Can you let the client take their car?

The issue with "price gouging" laws is that it does reduce demand and does hurt supply.

If a generator costs $400 and there is great need for them, if I can only sell them for $440 what is the incentive to make arrangements, extend credit, pay extra trucking etc to bring these into a disaster area. Same with gas and other supplies. What is my incentive to risk my trucks and cargo if there is no upside for my business?

Yes charging more for gas than national average is bad, but that would make more folks want to move heaven and earth to get gas into a location, more supply for the demand, quickly this would level out. Same for work crews to fix things.

Let the market determine the price. Keeping it low removes any incentive by the private sector to do anything until all is well and good.

No reward - no risk

orclover: [happilyamerican.com image 500x331]
You have to remember to negotiate. Especially if its a emergency and your families life is on the line, not just comfort. If your life truly hangs in the balance and its not just a matter of irritation, then you can always find a way to negotiate the price and find something the person with what you need really holds valuable.

ITG or Troll?