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   Postal Service reports $15.9 billion annual loss - this brought to you by the same people that will be running your health care

16 Nov 2012 11:40 AM   |   2577 clicks   |   Reuters
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NFA    [TotalFark]  
"this brought to you by the same people that will be running your health care want the post office system to fail so they can outsource mail services to much more expensive private interests"


There is no government or private business on the planet (except for the US post office) which is required to keep 75 years worth of retirement set aside for every employee. It's an unworkable financial plan deliberately implemented to bankrupt the US Postal Service. 

Simply remove this requirement and the post office will become fully financially stable.

16 Nov 2012 09:24 AM
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Fark It    [TotalFark]  
same people that will be running your healthcare

There is no government option as part of the ACA, it will put more people under private insurance.

16 Nov 2012 09:30 AM
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NutWrench    [TotalFark]  
Yeah, subby. The same organization that takes a letter from my front door and delivers it 3,000 miles across the country in a few days for 45 cents. I only WISH our healthcare system was run with anything approaching the organization and efficiency as the post office.

16 Nov 2012 09:33 AM
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Aarontology    [TotalFark]  
I agree subs.

We should also end the VA and make our wounded veterans purchase their own private health insurance.

16 Nov 2012 09:34 AM
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oldfarthenry    [TotalFark]  
So you're NOT getting over it, eh Smitts?

16 Nov 2012 09:37 AM
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sweetmelissa31     
I don't want someone to be making a profit off of not treating me, but here we are.

16 Nov 2012 10:03 AM
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FloydA    [TotalFark]  
Doctors will come to your house and treat all of your ailments for $0.45 (plus an additional 20 cents per ounce). This is horrifying!

Either that or subby is a nitwit. One of those two.

16 Nov 2012 10:07 AM
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Tigger    [TotalFark]  
submitter

your failed ideology was legitimately raped in the polls. you lost. kill yourself.

16 Nov 2012 10:11 AM
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Momiage    [TotalFark]  

NutWrench: Yeah, subby. The same organization that takes a letter from my front door and delivers it 3,000 miles across the country in a few days for 45 cents. I only WISH our healthcare system was run with anything approaching the organization and efficiency as the post office.


That made my morning. Pure, succinct genius.

16 Nov 2012 10:21 AM
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Irving Maimway    [TotalFark]  
Yes, running a deficit because the GOP run congress and president (GWB) put this requirement on them with the intention of driving them into insolvency so they could be replaced by a "more efficient" private entity.

Oh and the USPS, while under government oversight and technically run by government employees, it not part of the government and considered a corporation. So there's that.

16 Nov 2012 10:38 AM
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JerseyTim    [TotalFark]  
Cigna?

16 Nov 2012 10:43 AM
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Lsherm    [TotalFark]  

NFA: Simply remove this requirement and the post office will become fully financially stable.


Well, until the pensions come due.

The big problem is that using a traditional pension plan, which has current workers pay for current retirees, no longer works for the USPS because they are shrinking. It's the same reason Social Security is going to go through a crunch - there won't be enough people actively paying into the system to counteract the people taking from it.

So having the USPS pay into a fund to support benefits they've already promised their workers is a good idea, if completely flawed in the implementation. They shouldn't have had to shore up the pension fund in 5 years, or whatever the original limit was set at.

16 Nov 2012 10:47 AM
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Howie Spankowitz     
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!111 You're the first one to ever use this HILARIOUS comparison!!!!1111111 I bet everyone at the Campus Republicans meeting laughed for days about it.

16 Nov 2012 10:53 AM
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FirstNationalBastard    [TotalFark]  

oldfarthenry: So you're NOT getting over it, eh Smitts?


I haven't seen a Smitts not get over it like this since Jimmy left NYPD Blue.

16 Nov 2012 10:59 AM
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sweetmelissa31     

FloydA: Doctors will come to your house and treat all of your ailments for $0.45 (plus an additional 20 cents per ounce). This is horrifying!


Well when my doctor was delivering my new kidney a neighbor's dog took a bite out of it.

16 Nov 2012 11:00 AM
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El_Frijole_Blanco    [TotalFark]  
Perhaps the postal service could deliver a soothing balm for the hurt in subbs butt

16 Nov 2012 11:11 AM
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muck4doo     
10/10

/You got em good subby

16 Nov 2012 11:13 AM
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TheOnion    [TotalFark]  
There's a public option now? Sweet!

16 Nov 2012 11:32 AM
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BKITU    [TotalFark]  

sweetmelissa31: FloydA: Doctors will come to your house and treat all of your ailments for $0.45 (plus an additional 20 cents per ounce). This is horrifying!

Well when my doctor was delivering my new kidney a neighbor's dog took a bite out of it.


THAT IS MY KIDNEY
GIVE IT BACK
YOU ARE A DOG

IT ISN'T EVEN STEAK

16 Nov 2012 11:40 AM
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cryinoutloud     
OH BOY THIS THREAD AGIN

16 Nov 2012 11:41 AM
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Carth     

Aarontology: I agree subs.

We should also end the VA and make our wounded veterans purchase their own private health insurance.


Don't forget medicare, medicaid, the national highway system, the national park service, and food and drug safety testing. I'm sure the free market could handle all of those things better than the government anyway

16 Nov 2012 11:42 AM
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moralpanic     
Subby:
imageshack.us

16 Nov 2012 11:43 AM
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anuran     

NFA: "this brought to you by the same people that will be running your health care want the post office system to fail so they can outsource mail services to much more expensive private interests"


There is no government or private business on the planet (except for the US post office) which is required to keep 75 years worth of retirement set aside for every employee. It's an unworkable financial plan deliberately implemented to bankrupt the US Postal Service. 

Simply remove this requirement and the post office will become fully financially stable.


Done in one.
Everyone else, please turn out the lights when you leave the room

16 Nov 2012 11:43 AM
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Peter von Nostrand    [TotalFark]  

cryinoutloud: OH BOY THIS THREAD AGIN


cryinoutloud: OH BOY THIS THREAD AGIN


cryinoutloud: OH BOY THIS THREAD AGIN

cryinoutloud: OH BOY THIS THREAD AGIN

16 Nov 2012 11:44 AM
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Arkanaut     
The Postmaster General?

16 Nov 2012 11:44 AM
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JayCab     
Health Care, as a whole, also hasn't been largely replaced by infinitely faster electronic means thus denying it regular customers.

16 Nov 2012 11:44 AM
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Tenatra     
My biggest gripe with the postal service... Even local mail has a horrible turn around rate now. They did some restructuring here within the past couple years and now local mail isn't sorted here in town any more. Instead they send it 90 miles away to get sorted in Kansas City and then send it back. In my recent experiences with the system, it will take about a week to get mail that is local.

16 Nov 2012 11:44 AM
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Ambitwistor     
I think the first few posts conclusively demonstrated why submitter is an idiot.

16 Nov 2012 11:44 AM
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CokeBear     
Did the US Army turn a profit? How about the Department of Justice? The State Department?

Why do we expect a government department to turn a profit? Isn't the whole point that we all pay in and receive these services as part of living in a country? Or is that too communist of an idea for you?

16 Nov 2012 11:45 AM
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tricycleracer     

Fark It: same people that will be running your healthcare

There is no government option as part of the ACA, it will put more people under private insurance.


Shhhh. You're ruining the talking point.

16 Nov 2012 11:45 AM
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Wasilla Hillbilly     
Is it possible that not every entity in our loves should be judged on its profitability?

16 Nov 2012 11:46 AM
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Franko     

Aarontology: I agree subs.

We should also end the VA and make our wounded veterans purchase their own private health insurance.


The insurance companies would probably classify "war" as a pre-existing condition.

16 Nov 2012 11:46 AM
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lennavan    [TotalFark]  
I dunno guys, I'm with subby. I think the government should require all businesses to provide for 75 years of pensions for all of their workers and if they cannot afford it, they should go out of business.

Those Papa John's pizzas are gonna get pretty expensive, but subby and I don't care.

16 Nov 2012 11:47 AM
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david_gaithersburg     

NFA: "this brought to you by the same people that will be running your health care want the post office system to fail so they can outsource mail services to much more expensive private interests"


There is no government or private business on the planet (except for the US post office) which is required to keep 75 years worth of retirement set aside for every employee. It's an unworkable financial plan deliberately implemented to bankrupt the US Postal Service. 

Simply remove this requirement and the post office will become fully financially stable.


A whole lot of citations needed son.

16 Nov 2012 11:47 AM
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ladyfortuna     
I'm pretty sure subby was referring strictly to Congress, since they're the idiots who have been staring down this problem for the last several years and haven't done a damn thing about it. Oh hey let's recess to go run for office again instead of GETTING SOMETHING DONE.

Yes I've said this before, but I deeply appreciate the USPS - I refuse to use UPS due to pricing and the fact they are not careful with packages, and FedEx doesn't even officially operate in my area; they will pick up packages from the post office or you go to the private business that overcharges for the privilege of printing a label for you. No thanks. I've only had a couple of problems since starting my business where I took a loss due to post office error. This is with over 700 packages shipped in the last year and a half, so... yeah.

Another thing I've said before, but it's crucial - get to know your post office employees. And be NICE and polite, because they are far more likely to help you then.

16 Nov 2012 11:49 AM
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Gratch     

Irving Maimway: Yes, running a deficit because the GOP run congress and president (GWB) put this requirement on them with the intention of driving them into insolvency so they could be replaced by a "more efficient" private entity.

Oh and the USPS, while under government oversight and technically run by government employees, it not part of the government and considered a corporation. So there's that.


This. FTFA

"The USPS, which relies on the sale of stamps and other products rather than taxpayer dollars, has been grappling for years with high costs and tumbling mail volumes as consumers communicate more online."

16 Nov 2012 11:50 AM
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An-Unnecessarily-Long-Name     
having things shipped USPS Priority mail to alaska is 90% cheaper and often faster than FedEx or UPS second day air.

/love USPS

16 Nov 2012 11:50 AM
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wildcardjack     

NFA: There is no government or private business on the planet (except for the US post office) which is required to keep 75 years worth of retirement set aside for every employee. It's an unworkable financial plan deliberately implemented to bankrupt the US Postal Service. 

Simply remove this requirement and the post office will become fully financially stable.


That's the problem with old fashioned defined benefit pensions as opposed to more modern defined contribution plans. The old model sounds great if most of the people died before... crap, 20 years of service gets 40 years of benefits? Even that sounds stupid. People work into their 60's these days, you could rack up two pensions at that rate.

Defined contribution plans are the way of the present but with the boomers about to start trying to cash out their investments I have no idea what's going to happen. Gen X is upside down in their mortgages and gen-Y doesn't see the point of becoming just like their boomer parents.

16 Nov 2012 11:52 AM
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Sharksfan     
As someone who has worked closely with the USPS for years I can say the following with confidence:

Do they have inefficiencies? Some, but not more than any Fortune 500 Corporation.

Are they dedicated to their charter? Yes, and it is much clearer than any other Federal organization or Fortune 500 company.

Did they choose to become bankrupt? Nope, blame Congress - and blame them twice. First for implementing the pre-funding rules and again for taking no action to fix this.

Can the USPS survive this? Yes, easily - but not in their current form. They need to go to the European model, and they know this. That means far fewer post offices and far more postal service locations inside other businesses - gas stations, grocery stores, etc.

16 Nov 2012 11:53 AM
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Nightsweat     
leftonlanier.files.wordpress.com

16 Nov 2012 11:53 AM
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lennavan    [TotalFark]  

CokeBear: Why do we expect a government department to turn a profit?


The post office is profitable.

david_gaithersburg: A whole lot of citations needed son.


It actually says it in the linked article dude. That of course would have required you to read the article:

Much of the Postal Service's loss in 2012 came from two defaults on a total of more than $11 billion in payments that Congress had directed USPS to pay into a fund for future retiree health benefits.

Here's another one:

Without the pension payment, USPS would have a $1.5 billion surplus instead of a $20 billion shortfall. "[T]hese ongoing liquidity issues unnecessarily undermine confidence in the viability of the Postal Service among our customers," said USPS spokesman David Partenheimer.

Link

Here is the actual bill Congress passed:

Link

Here it is on Wikipedia: Link

This requirement also explicitly stated the USPS it stop using its savings to reduce postal debt

16 Nov 2012 11:53 AM
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Ninja Otter     

Lsherm: The big problem is that using a traditional pension plan, which has current workers pay for current retirees, no longer works for the USPS because they are shrinking.


Have those sorts of pensions ever really worked? They're Ponzi schemes under a different name. All such pensions should be required to have independent funds for each worker, strictly limited to age-appropriate risk portfolios, and what the employee gets in the end is that fund. Strict rules on how much payout they can get per month/year so they don't drain the fund, no tapping it in any way until retirement age. Employee can add his own contributions.

16 Nov 2012 11:54 AM
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natas6.0    [TotalFark]  
I was hoping to hang up my gunbelt and take up a mail bag in the hills of North Carolina

I has a sad

Thank you, gub'mint
for being incapable of running anything efficiently

16 Nov 2012 11:54 AM
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david_gaithersburg     

lennavan: I dunno guys, I'm with subby. I think the government should require all businesses to provide for 75 years of pensions for all of their workers and if they cannot afford it, they should go out of business.

Those Papa John's pizzas are gonna get pretty expensive, but subby and I don't care.


75 years? So they don't utilize actuarial estimates of life expectancy like is done in the rest of the know universe, well except for the bizarro world of the US government which ignores the laws of reality.

16 Nov 2012 11:54 AM
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JerseyTim    [TotalFark]  
We bring this stupid law up every time this topic comes up. Is there any ever move to repeal it in Congress? Does anyone ever try to bring it up? Can we start one of those useless White House petitions?

16 Nov 2012 11:55 AM
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Rindred     
Yawn. Constitutionally enumerated government function. Next!

16 Nov 2012 11:55 AM
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sdromeo     
The Post Office is runnoing healthcare? That's explains why my mailman checked my prostate yesterday.

16 Nov 2012 11:55 AM
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Prank Call of Cthulhu     
Hostess just folded because they had measly $700M in debt. An organization that continues providing a valuable service while being $15.9B in debt? Yes, I'll take the government running my health care any day.

16 Nov 2012 11:57 AM
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ringersol     
Lsherm: "The big problem is that using a traditional pension plan, which has current workers pay for current retirees, no longer works for the USPS because they are shrinking. It's the same reason Social Security is going to go through a crunch - there won't be enough people actively paying into the system to counteract the people taking from it."

Bullshiat on two counts. 1. the USPS can make good on those commitments and can even sock away 75 years of pension funding, if they were given more than 10 years to go from 0 to 75 years of cushion. *Most* of the reason that the USPS is shrinking as fast as it is, is because the funding requirement is forcing them to. The requirement is *creating* the problem more than any natural change in USPS staffing. 2. Social Security is not going through a crunch. It's running out of *surplus*, because we've left the income cap for Social Security tax too low (100k-ish) as demographics and economics have changed around it. Bump that up to an adjusted-for-inflation reasonable amount some time in the next twenty or so years and there simply is no Social Security 'problem'.

16 Nov 2012 11:57 AM
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cleek     
the US government, which does not run the USPS, will not be running anyone's "health care" (except for those it already does, via the communist VA).

the government will be managing some insurance plans. BFD.

16 Nov 2012 11:58 AM
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