$o the Why ha$en't thi$ taken the Country by $torm?

Sorry but most doctors are greedier A$$holes than litigation lawyers

They do that here in Canada, too. I can jump to the front of any waiting list just by ponying up a little extra dough.

Some people... poor people... have a problem with this; to me, it's just capitalism in action.

WhippingBoy: They do that here in Canada, too. I can jump to the front of any waiting list just by ponying up a little extra dough.

Some people... poor people... have a problem with this; to me, it's just capitalism in action.

Let them eat cake, Sir.

The problem with averages is that it hides the low point.

Because medical care was always regulated and we have zero history of unregulated medical care in this country as a measure of how this would play out on a larger scale, most notably towards the poor and elderly. Right.

Rich people should harvest the organs of the poor, in order to create jobs.

Azlefty: $o the Why ha$en't thi$ taken the Country by $torm?

Sorry but most doctors are greedier A$$holes than litigation lawyers

A while back "we" deregulated dentist pricing. I came to the surprise of no one but the politicians that prices either stayed where they were or sky-rocketed. That free market experiment has been cancelled.

/You do not expect people to do the honourable thing
//Especially not when talking money

Yeah, what happens if you need the surgery but don't have the cash (either from your own pocket or through insurance)?

Sounds great until greed kicks in, and then puts patients into the situation you see around the country currently.

Bonzo_1116: Yeah, what happens if you need the surgery but don't have the cash (either from your own pocket or through insurance)?

Then you are poor and get your organs harvested. DERP

I say good for them. I haven't been to this location yet, but I will the next time I end up needing something done.

imgod2u: The problem with averages is that it hides the low point.

the company defended its outrageous bills on the grounds that it needs a way to cover losses on services offered free.

Same problem with the lifeguard who asked to ride in the ambulance with the kid he saved and got gouged. The pre-Obama health care system was already largely Marxist, "from each according to his ability, to each according to his need."

"One reason our prices are so low," says Smith, "is that we don't have administrators running around in their four or five thousand dollar suits."


It will never work. Those people are indispensible.

What some Doctors may look like

/Yes, the one on the right isn't the original

Open pricing would be a huge win for consumers. Just think of a travelocity-like site for commodity medical procedures and services. Show the prices for each provider along with a review. Sometimes I can find a way better airfare deal by traveling 90 minutes to the next closest city - would totally do the same for some types of medical services, but that's just me.

The most expensive item on their list is a Penile Prosthesis @ $15,425.00 

I hope it comes with attachments.

"Before we begin your affordable vasectomy, please choose your method of pain management. for $50. We'll give you a bottle of vodka to drink, and a table leg to bite down on. For $15,000 we'll give you some nice narcotic pain killers so you don't feel a thing."

BronyMedic: WhippingBoy: They do that here in Canada, too. I can jump to the front of any waiting list just by ponying up a little extra dough.

Some people... poor people... have a problem with this; to me, it's just capitalism in action.

Let them eat cake, Sir.

I like the idea of a nationalized healthcare system. I would not be willing to abuse it, though. And that would be one of the biggest problems here in the USA. I had to go to a doctor the other day because of flu/URI. Doc kept asking about insurance. I told him I was paying cash. He was very happy about that (cutting down on paperwork and such) and even gave me some extra attention. So things like that are ok. But when greed takes over the minds of the patients, and the doctors, then the system breaks.
And that is why I hate everyone.

Um, yeah, that incoherent rant brought to you by TheraFLU. Powerful crap.

Next time I am hit by a bus I will carefully choose among competing emergency-care providers for the most cost-effective treatment.

Thanks for the advice, Libertarians!!

UsikFark: The most expensive item on their list is a Penile Prosthesis @ $15,425.00 

I hope it comes with attachments.

Like a hair trigger...?

Outpatient ambulatory surgical centers are also pretty restricted in the level of surgery they can perform. You're not getting anything major done at a facility that can't respond with the resources of an acute care facility in case things go south on the table. I'm guessing that 80-90% of their business is colonoscopies and endoscopies, things that require only moderate sedation.

The one thing that they had right is that the driver in the cost of healthcare is the absolutely obscene profits that major hospitals make. If you really want to make a difference in this trend, have providers go through rate setting commissions just like payers do.

crazytrain: Open pricing would be a huge win for consumers. Just think of a travelocity-like site for commodity medical procedures and services. Show the prices for each provider along with a review. Sometimes I can find a way better airfare deal by traveling 90 minutes to the next closest city - would totally do the same for some types of medical services, but that's just me.

The problem is that most expensive medical services are usually in emergent or urgent care where you don't really have the luxury of shopping around.
This idea works well for elective procedures - not so good for any sort of emergency care, trauma, or expensive chronic treatment such as chemotherapy where the costs will always exceed the means of any average person.

Um, hasn't it been at least half free market? It is in my county at least. Yet everyone runs to the State owned besides the privately owned, no matter how close one is to the privately owned. It's cheaper and it's at least triple the quality.

Because someone somewhere wouldn't be able to afford something.

Vectron: "One reason our prices are so low," says Smith, "is that we don't have administrators running around in their four or five thousand dollar suits.to deal with large numbers of poor, chronically ill, patients, because we choose instead to foist them off on public emergency rooms that can't turn them away"

FTFY

When I had prostate surgery two years ago, my itemized bill included "oral pain medication" and the cost was listed as $500. The only oral pain medication I was offered was Tylenol and I didn't take it, but since it was already out of the bottle it went on my bill. I only stayed one night but the private room's cost was about $1500.

/total bill was about $27k
//insurance paid for 75% of it

fluffy2097: for $50. We'll give you a bottle of vodka to drink, and a table leg to bite down on

More like "$300 surgery-grade" vodka, run through a micron filter and produced under aseptic conditions. Otherwise, you get the meningitis vodka.

BronyMedic: WhippingBoy: They do that here in Canada, too. I can jump to the front of any waiting list just by ponying up a little extra dough.

Some people... poor people... have a problem with this; to me, it's just capitalism in action.

Let them eat cake, Sir.

Meh, it's not like they won't get what they need. They just have to wait a bit longer for it.

Rising_Zan_Samurai_Gunman: crazytrain: Open pricing would be a huge win for consumers. Just think of a travelocity-like site for commodity medical procedures and services. Show the prices for each provider along with a review. Sometimes I can find a way better airfare deal by traveling 90 minutes to the next closest city - would totally do the same for some types of medical services, but that's just me.

The problem is that most expensive medical services are usually in emergent or urgent care where you don't really have the luxury of shopping around.
This idea works well for elective procedures - not so good for any sort of emergency care, trauma, or expensive chronic treatment such as chemotherapy where the costs will always exceed the means of any average person.

Poor individuals should simply choose not to have cancer if they cannot afford it.

Nothing surprising about it, Subby. An open market is almost always going to provide the consumer with the best service/goods available.

Bonzo_1116: Yeah, what happens if you need the surgery but don't have the cash (either from your own pocket or through insurance)?

You go to the hospital and stiff them when the bill comes, just like everyone else.

Reason is such a funny site. They have some good articles, but seem to go out of their way to prove everything people hate about libertarians being assholes just for the hell of it.

Lance Armstrong Cheated to Win. Why is that Wrong?

and

FEMA: Welfare Masquerading as Disaster Relief

DerAppie: Azlefty: $o the Why ha$en't thi$ taken the Country by $torm?

Sorry but most doctors are greedier A$$holes than litigation lawyers

A while back "we" deregulated dentist pricing. I came to the surprise of no one but the politicians that prices either stayed where they were or sky-rocketed. That free market experiment has been cancelled.

/You do not expect people to do the honourable thing
//Especially not when talking money

Unless they're politicians.

Because you can trust politicians not to be greedier a$$holes than litigation lawyers, and if you don't, then fark YOU they'll send the cops to throw your ass in jail.

Bendal: When I had prostate surgery two years ago, my itemized bill included "oral pain medication" and the cost was listed as $500. The only oral pain medication I was offered was Tylenol and I didn't take it, but since it was already out of the bottle it went on my bill. I only stayed one night but the private room's cost was about $1500.

/total bill was about $27k
//insurance paid for 75% of it

Where? I have you farkied in NC... I've personally spent time at Duke, Wake and Rex; Wake being the worst in quality/monies owed and service, Duke being the best in quality but not service, mostly paid for by insurance; and Rex still being my favorite all around (money-wise, no ripping off, quality, service, etc.)

Health care isn't as expensive if you don't have to use medications.

jaytkay: Next time I am hit by a bus I will carefully choose among competing emergency-care providers for the most cost-effective treatment.

Thanks for the advice, Libertarians!!

Buses don't exist in a Libertarian utopia.

Open pricing is a nice step forward, but this still isn't as beneficial as a true single-payer system would be.

Health care should not be a for-profit business.

With a true single payer system it would be easy to control costs, just state in law that all licensed medical facilities must accept MediCare for 100% of all procedures, and accept whatever MediCare pays as 100% fulfillment of the bill. Then, you just set the amount MediCare pays to make services affordable. Set an MRI at $500, fitting a cast at $100, complex surgery at $100/hr, etc, and set the prices MediCare will pay for drugs and that becomes all the pharmaceutical companies can ask.

Everyone is covered, costs are reduced, and hospitals will be forced to become more efficient to stay in business. Salaries for doctors, surgeons, and administrators will likely go down, but it would be for the common good.

Wasn't the research that underlies modern medicine underwritten with public money? Aren't the medical schools typically heavily subsidized by the state?

This is a great idea. I just keep saying, make it totally free market. That way when Mitt Romney has a stroke, the neurosurgeon can decide he's not going to show up to work that day for less than $100,000,000. If he doesn't like it, he's more than welcome to spend those precious moments negotiating with one of the less than 3500 neurosurgeons that exist in the country.

Dimensio: Rising_Zan_Samurai_Gunman: crazytrain: Open pricing would be a huge win for consumers. Just think of a travelocity-like site for commodity medical procedures and services. Show the prices for each provider along with a review. Sometimes I can find a way better airfare deal by traveling 90 minutes to the next closest city - would totally do the same for some types of medical services, but that's just me.

The problem is that most expensive medical services are usually in emergent or urgent care where you don't really have the luxury of shopping around.
This idea works well for elective procedures - not so good for any sort of emergency care, trauma, or expensive chronic treatment such as chemotherapy where the costs will always exceed the means of any average person.

Poor individuals should simply choose not to have cancer if they cannot afford it.

Now, for $100, I'll blast you with the malfunctioning microwave for an hour. For $500,000, I'll bring in a certified oncologist and properly calibrated equipment.

"Because private insurance companies or the government generally pick up most of the tab for medical services, patients don't have the normal incentive to seek out value."

Stopped reading at this point, this old and tired idea just will not die no matter how much it doesn't fit the facts or the reasoning skills of someone above the 9th grade.

My last doctor stopped accepting any health insurance from her patients. She just charged a flat $100 for each visit, paid in advance, and if you had a follow-up visit afterwards she would often not charge at all for it. She didn't hesitate to refer me to a specialist or a lab for further tests, and was more than willing to treat multiple ailments in one visit rather than telling me "let's deal with this first, then the other stuff later".

When I asked her why she didn't accept insurance any longer, she said the insurance companies always pressured doctors to see more and more patients each day, and treat only one illness or complaint per visit. She said the goal was to get patient visits with a doctor down to 15 minutes, and keep lab visits to a minimum.

/stopped seeing her when she started pushing herbal treatments and holistic living
//did catch my prostate cancer though

Watching_Epoxy_Cure: Nothing surprising about it, Subby. An open market is almost always going to provide the consumer with the best service/goods available.

Yes, because health care should be just like televisions- Some people can afford real big, expensive ones, some can only afford small cheap ones, and some people can't afford one at all. But, hey, that's life.

Summoner101: UsikFark: The most expensive item on their list is a Penile Prosthesis @ $15,425.00 

I hope it comes with attachments.

Like a hair trigger...?

1) "comes with attachments" is a double entendre I happen to enjoy
2) you just know someone would pay for picatinny rails

jaytkay: Next time I am hit by a bus I will carefully choose among competing emergency-care providers for the most cost-effective treatment.

Thanks for the advice, Libertarians!!

I actually did do this once inside of an ambulance. I said take me to Rex or leave me where I am. They said they were employed by Wake and had to take me there so I told them I'd rather die in the street; we were physically much closer to the hospital that I asked for. Kudos to them, they called the other ambulance service in the city who were not employed by the privatized hospital and took patients to the closest hospital as opposed to the one who... sucks donkey-balls.

Azlefty: $o the Why ha$en't thi$ taken the Country by $torm?

Sorry but most doctors are greedier A$$holes than litigation lawyers

You must not know many asian doctors.

57% what?

Bendal: My last doctor stopped accepting any health insurance from her patients. She just charged a flat $100 for each visit, paid in advance, and if you had a follow-up visit afterwards she would often not charge at all for it. She didn't hesitate to refer me to a specialist or a lab for further tests, and was more than willing to treat multiple ailments in one visit rather than telling me "let's deal with this first, then the other stuff later".

When I asked her why she didn't accept insurance any longer, she said the insurance companies always pressured doctors to see more and more patients each day, and treat only one illness or complaint per visit. She said the goal was to get patient visits with a doctor down to 15 minutes, and keep lab visits to a minimum.

/stopped seeing her when she started pushing herbal treatments and holistic living
//did catch my prostate cancer though

Cool story, bro.