Narrows Bridge II: Electric Bugaloo?

For those of you that are unfamiliar. Tacoma Narrows Bridge collapse

Bathia_Mapes: Narrows Bridge II: Electric Bugaloo?

For those of you that are unfamiliar. Tacoma Narrows Bridge collapse

From the sounds of the article, this one may just fall the fark over. Probably won't even get a show out of it.

Sounds like this one will sink more than it will fall over. Does that place freeze? Poor steel and poor concrete make for a great place for water to hide. If it freezes then it will pop off big chunks of concrete and weaken the whole structure.

Bathia_Mapes: Narrows Bridge II: Electric Bugaloo?

For those of you that are unfamiliar. Tacoma Narrows Bridge collapse

I move for news to go back to having riveting background music in it.

It's not news, it's Seattle.

Lsherm: Bathia_Mapes: Narrows Bridge II: Electric Bugaloo?

For those of you that are unfamiliar. Tacoma Narrows Bridge collapse

From the sounds of the article, this one may just fall the fark over. Probably won't even get a show out of it.

it's a floating bridge, if the allegations are true most likely you would have a pontoon breach and start taking on water. probably not severe enough to cause structural failure - but it would need immediate attention - pump out the pontoon (i think they have pumps with auto triggers) and patching.

Tr0mBoNe: Sounds like this one will sink more than it will fall over. Does that place freeze? Poor steel and poor concrete make for a great place for water to hide. If it freezes then it will pop off big chunks of concrete and weaken the whole structure.

It'll burn down, fall over, and then sink into the swamp.

But the third one will stay up!

Look, pal, we can't compete in the marketplace with Chinese competitors, so some things gotta slide.

But don't worry, the deep bore tunnel through three types of rock, running right next to Puget Sound and over a known fault line will totally be safe.

/and on time
/hardly any cost overruns too

Bathia_Mapes: Narrows Bridge II: Electric Bugaloo?

For those of you that are unfamiliar. Tacoma Narrows Bridge collapse

IIRC Tacoma Narrows was kind of a freak thing.

Othmar Ammann, a leading bridge designer and member of the Federal Works Agency Commission investigating the collapse of the Tacoma Narrows Bridge, wrote:

The Tacoma Narrows bridge failure has given us invaluable information...It has shown [that] every new structure [that] projects into new fields of magnitude involves new problems for the solution of which neither theory nor practical experience furnish an adequate guide. It is then that we must rely largely on judgement and if, as a result, errors, or failures occur, we must accept them as a price for human progress.[26]

This one sounds like they just said "f--k it" to things we've learned from freaking failures. Very different. Sigh.

story about a bridge

AcneVulgaris: Tr0mBoNe: Sounds like this one will sink more than it will fall over. Does that place freeze? Poor steel and poor concrete make for a great place for water to hide. If it freezes then it will pop off big chunks of concrete and weaken the whole structure.

It'll burn down, fall over, and then sink into the swamp.

But the third fourth one will stay up!

/yeah, I'm grumpy today
//was all happy until I had to go to the doctor, secretary of state, the bank, and the pharmacy
///...sorry

I'm suddenly reminded of Cloud Atlas.

whither_apophis: But don't worry, the deep bore tunnel through three types of rock, running right next to Puget Sound and over a known fault line will totally be safe.

/and on time
/hardly any cost overruns too

I live in a terribly dry state, but I have relatives in Seattle and Port Angeles, and I love the area. So just curious, what are you referring to?

Rapmaster2000: Look, pal, we can't compete in the marketplace with Chinese competitors, so some things gotta slide.

I don't think we want to compete with China. It would require a significant drop in standards. For now anyway.

StreetlightInTheGhetto: Bathia_Mapes: Narrows Bridge II: Electric Bugaloo?

For those of you that are unfamiliar. Tacoma Narrows Bridge collapse

IIRC Tacoma Narrows was kind of a freak thing.

Othmar Ammann, a leading bridge designer and member of the Federal Works Agency Commission investigating the collapse of the Tacoma Narrows Bridge, wrote:

The Tacoma Narrows bridge failure has given us invaluable information...It has shown [that] every new structure [that] projects into new fields of magnitude involves new problems for the solution of which neither theory nor practical experience furnish an adequate guide. It is then that we must rely largely on judgement and if, as a result, errors, or failures occur, we must accept them as a price for human progress.[26]

This one sounds like they just said "f--k it" to things we've learned from freaking failures. Very different. Sigh.

The Tacoma Narrows Bridge was a freak thing, but IIRC, they were warned that the bridge would fail. It also suffered from budgetary issues and the pilons were only 8ft as opposed to 20ft, or some such. Obviously you need to do your own research if you want more information, but it was also the torsion vibration that doomed it. So cheaply built, as quickly as possible, with the engineering reduced to fit the budget and you get...

Oh look, Kiewit doing shady things. Must be a day ending in -y.

Tr0mBoNe: Sounds like this one will sink more than it will fall over. Does that place freeze? Poor steel and poor concrete make for a great place for water to hide. If it freezes then it will pop off big chunks of concrete and weaken the whole structure.

The air will be cold enough to freeze exposed parts of the bridge, but I think it's been a while since Puget sound froze. The water temp stays about 50.

RoyBatty: whither_apophis: But don't worry, the deep bore tunnel through three types of rock, running right next to Puget Sound and over a known fault line will totally be safe.

/and on time
/hardly any cost overruns too

I live in a terribly dry state, but I have relatives in Seattle and Port Angeles, and I love the area. So just curious, what are you referring to?

He's referring to the Alaskan Way Viaduct replacement project, which will be the world's largest diameter tunnel, IIRC. http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/projects/Viad uct/

Rapmaster2000: Look, pal, we can't compete in the marketplace with Chinese competitors, so some things gotta slide.

Why compete? Here in San Francisco, our new bridge is being built in China.

Bathia_Mapes: Narrows Bridge II: Electric Bugaloo I-90 Bridge II: Electric Bugaloo?

For those of you that are unfamiliar. Tacoma Narrows Bridge collapse

FTFY

Gee, what's the worst that could happen to a floating bridge over Lake Washington?

/Shouldn't have had it built in Aberdeen. That place sucks.

Been there...Done that.
Let's do it again!

Sinking bridge

RoyBatty: whither_apophis: But don't worry, the deep bore tunnel through three types of rock, running right next to Puget Sound and over a known fault line will totally be safe.

/and on time
/hardly any cost overruns too

I live in a terribly dry state, but I have relatives in Seattle and Port Angeles, and I love the area. So just curious, what are you referring to?

It's the replacement tunnel for our Hwy 99 viaduct, which is 1) not up to current earthquake code (true) and 2) too much of an eyesore to replace, according to all the developers who will throw up 20 story condos the second they can in the new area.

/of course a simple replacement on the exiting footprint was the most cost effective solution

//the boring machine itself is pretty cool
http://blogs.seattletimes.com/today/2 012/09/your-tunnel-drill-is-10-t i mes-taller-than-you-are/

But the important thing is that no unions were involved, amirite?

/interns
/consulting fees

IIRC, PK was a contractor on a couple of reactors years ago.

/could be wrong.

MrEricSir: Here in San Francisco, our new bridge is being built in China.

What new bridge? I hope you're not talking about the Bay Bridge renovations.

Even worse than the bridge are the pop up ads on that web site....You hit close and it just opens more windows. UGH!!

A Bridge Too Far Flawed

RoyBatty: whither_apophis: But don't worry, the deep bore tunnel through three types of rock, running right next to Puget Sound and over a known fault line will totally be safe.

/and on time
/hardly any cost overruns too

I live in a terribly dry state, but I have relatives in Seattle and Port Angeles, and I love the area. So just curious, what are you referring to?

Seattle has a few projects that didn't... mature. There are decaying on-ramps for highway bridges that were never completed, we have 1 mile of monorail built 40 years ago, and the Alaskan Way Viaduct (built in the 50s) was badly damaged in a quake and is not expected to survive any other disaster- so "we" are building a 4-lane tunnel to replace it. The tunnel will go underneath downtown with no exits.

We have one highway, which is a gridlock, there is "no" parking downtown, except when everyone is parked because of traffic jams, and now they are going to build another stadium right next to the others.

We already have a traffic problem here, and now they want to build a car tunnel that can't be expanded. Their idea of improving the I-5 corridor is putting up expensive concrete noise-dampeners where it shaves by good neighborhoods. 

Too many cars and not enough transit, and no solution in sight. This place was designed for 1960s traffic.

This is crazy!!!

TheJoe03: Bay Bridge renovations

You realize that it's an entirely new Eastern span, right?

"I'm not going to put my name on something that might get somebody killed or hurt. It's just not going to happen," he said.


Your not even going to put your name on your accusations, so I'm not surprised.

TheJoe03: MrEricSir: Here in San Francisco, our new bridge is being built in China.

What new bridge? I hope you're not talking about the Bay Bridge renovations.

Yep, the replacement roadway is being built in China and shipped here in big blocks to be assembled on-site. Not sure about the masts, but probably them too.

He TRIED to tell everyone about the dangerous shoddy cost-cutting, but they LOCKED HIM UP!

With Ethyl Merman, of all people!

StreetlightInTheGhetto: AcneVulgaris: Tr0mBoNe: Sounds like this one will sink more than it will fall over. Does that place freeze? Poor steel and poor concrete make for a great place for water to hide. If it freezes then it will pop off big chunks of concrete and weaken the whole structure.

It'll burn down, fall over, and then sink into the swamp.

But the third fourth one will stay up!

/yeah, I'm grumpy today
//was all happy until I had to go to the doctor, secretary of state, the bank, and the pharmacy
///...sorry

People didn't understand that you need a helping hand - now today you seem to be an angry young man, SLInTheGhetto.

/Hope the holiday is nicer than today was!

TheJoe03: What new bridge? I hope you're not talking about the Bay Bridge renovations.

That's the one.

Clearly this company is being over-regulated. None of this would be happening if the government would just get out of their way and let the free market handle things.

MrEricSir: Why compete? Here in San Francisco, our new bridge is being built in China.

First railroads, now bridges ... the full circle, next on California's Gold!

kg2095: Rapmaster2000: Look, pal, we can't compete in the marketplace with Chinese competitors, so some things gotta slide.

I don't think we want to compete with China. It would require a significant drop in standards. For now anyway.



Their streetscrapers are even more awe-inspiring than their skyscrapers.

UsikFark: RoyBatty: whither_apophis: But don't worry, the deep bore tunnel through three types of rock, running right next to Puget Sound and over a known fault line will totally be safe.

/and on time
/hardly any cost overruns too

I live in a terribly dry state, but I have relatives in Seattle and Port Angeles, and I love the area. So just curious, what are you referring to?

Seattle has a few projects that didn't... mature. There are decaying on-ramps for highway bridges that were never completed, we have 1 mile of monorail built 40 years ago, and the Alaskan Way Viaduct (built in the 50s) was badly damaged in a quake and is not expected to survive any other disaster- so "we" are building a 4-lane tunnel to replace it. The tunnel will go underneath downtown with no exits.

We have one highway, which is a gridlock, there is "no" parking downtown, except when everyone is parked because of traffic jams, and now they are going to build another stadium right next to the others.

We already have a traffic problem here, and now they want to build a car tunnel that can't be expanded. Their idea of improving the I-5 corridor is putting up expensive concrete noise-dampeners where it shaves by good neighborhoods. 

Too many cars and not enough transit, and no solution in sight. This place was designed for 1960s traffic.

Yeah, the Seattle driving situation sucks. That's the price you pay for living in a pretty great city I guess?

kg2095: Rapmaster2000: Look, pal, we can't compete in the marketplace with Chinese competitors, so some things gotta slide.

I don't think we want to compete with China. It would require a significant drop in standards. For now anyway.

[i.telegraph.co.uk image 460x288]

Other angles on that image detail the real problem with that building collapse in China. It shows once again how you should never construct buildings by slopes.

foxyshadis: TheJoe03: MrEricSir: Here in San Francisco, our new bridge is being built in China.

What new bridge? I hope you're not talking about the Bay Bridge renovations.

Yep, the replacement roadway is being built in China and shipped here in big blocks to be assembled on-site. Not sure about the masts, but probably them too.

The towers as well. The project was considerably over budget, so trades like steel fabrication were moved to China to bring it back "in budget."

Urgh...I remember when this happened 22 years ago: I-90 bridge collapse, November 1990

Snarfangel: kg2095: Rapmaster2000: Look, pal, we can't compete in the marketplace with Chinese competitors, so some things gotta slide.

I don't think we want to compete with China. It would require a significant drop in standards. For now anyway.

[i.telegraph.co.uk image 460x288]

Their streetscrapers are even more awe-inspiring than their skyscrapers.


And they're green - they save a TON of money on motor loads.

foxyshadis: TheJoe03: MrEricSir: Here in San Francisco, our new bridge is being built in China.

What new bridge? I hope you're not talking about the Bay Bridge renovations.

Yep, the replacement roadway is being built in China and shipped here in big blocks to be assembled on-site. Not sure about the masts, but probably them too.

The new eastern "skyway" portion was precast in Stockton, barged in, and raised into place. By these same Kiewet folks.

UsikFark: Tr0mBoNe: Sounds like this one will sink more than it will fall over. Does that place freeze? Poor steel and poor concrete make for a great place for water to hide. If it freezes then it will pop off big chunks of concrete and weaken the whole structure.

The air will be cold enough to freeze exposed parts of the bridge, but I think it's been a while since Puget sound froze. The water temp stays about 50.

520 doesn't go all the way to the Sound.

Has anyone posted this bit of bridge collapse history? Link

bluelancer03: construct buildings by slopes. 

Diogenes Teufelsdrockh: Bathia_Mapes: Narrows Bridge II: Electric Bugaloo I-90 Bridge II: Electric Bugaloo?

For those of you that are unfamiliar. Tacoma Narrows Bridge collapse

FTFY

Gee, what's the worst that could happen to a floating bridge over Lake Washington?

/Shouldn't have had it built in Aberdeen. That place sucks.

That anchor looks just like Tom Tucker.

The most amazing account of epic construction failure and professional ethics I've ever read: The Fifty-Nine-Story Crisis.

Summary: When the Citibank building in Manhattan was under construction, the contractor deviated from the approved design in a way that made the building vulnerable to hurricane-force winds. The man responsible for the building design owned up to it and got it fixed.