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   Laser surgery: A marvel of modern medicine. FARK: Until a nurse drowns in a fountain of blood

26 Nov 2012 11:57 AM   |   21136 clicks   |   Newcastle Evening Chronicle
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ZAZ    [TotalFark]  
He said he now tells all patients set to undergo transoral laser surgery that there is a chance they could bleed to death afterwards.

Still sounds better than chemo.

26 Nov 2012 08:20 AM
sithon    [TotalFark]  
why didn't they go to the ER when they saw his throat was swollen?

26 Nov 2012 08:43 AM
BronyMedic     
[Pedant Trigger]

FTFA: Today Jim's grieving family have questioned why he had to die before medics could realise the dangers - six years after doctors in Australia highlighted the risks.

For fark sakes. They're Doctors. Not Medics. Medic is slang for either a Military Corpsman/Healthcare Specialist, or an EMT/Paramedic in the civilian world.

Paramedics don't perform laser surgery. We lop off limbs that have been trapped under tons of concrete for more than three hours, place an occasional chest tube, and (hopefully never) cut a throat open to put a tube in someone's trachea.

[/Pedant Trigger]

FTFA:
"He coughed up a massive clot of blood and started to gush like a fountain.

"He was hysterical and ran out into the garden, panicking and scared, saying 'I'm going to die' and 'Help me'." An ambulance was called, but by the time paramedics arrived Jim's heart had already stopped. He was taken to Newcastle's Royal Victoria Infirmary where he was pronounced dead.


So either he had an esophageal varice rupture, or he had an aortic dissection of some kind. I'm sad this guy died, but if he had throat or esophageal cancer, that's one of the expected complications of it. There's really nothing in the article that points fault to the Docs like submitter claims, other than the family mad that "no one told them the risks"

In reality, however, there's NOTHING that can be done for this other than being on an OR table when it happens. In the field, Diesel Boluses to a V8 engine combined with Large bore IV or IO access and lots of fluids to keep their systolic around 90mmhg are the only way to even get them somewhere alive, where hopefully GI is setting at the bedside with an endoscope and a banding tool to stop the bleed. If it was an aortic dissection, he could have it happen setting inside of a university hosptial, and still die before he made it into the OR - in fact, active dissection is one of the reasons they'll crack your chest in the ER suite.

Even then, fluids are only going to buy short amounts of time. IV Crystaloids like Normal Saline and LR dilute clotting factors, and thin oxygen carrying blood out without replacing red blood cells or plasma proteins.

26 Nov 2012 09:30 AM
ZAZ    [TotalFark]  
BronyMedic

We have a rare survivor of an aortic dissection (not in a hospital) on Fark: http://www.fark.com/comments/299811/2 001951#c2001951.

26 Nov 2012 09:52 AM
BronyMedic     

ZAZ: We have a rare survivor of an aortic dissection (not in a hospital) on Fark


I want to buy that man a beer. Too bad he's already TFer, I'd buy him a week just for being hard to kill period.

I'm an Atheist, but someone was looking out for him on a cosmic scale.

26 Nov 2012 09:56 AM
FlashHarry    [TotalFark]  

ZAZ: BronyMedic

We have a rare survivor of an aortic dissection (not in a hospital) on Fark: http://www.fark.com/comments/299811/20 01951#c2001951.


jaysus. i had no idea.

26 Nov 2012 10:36 AM
dittybopper    [TotalFark]  
img141.imageshack.usView Full Size


Infidel Defilers. They shall all drown in lakes of blood. Now they will know why they are afraid of the dark. Now they learn why they fear the night.

26 Nov 2012 12:09 PM
cryinoutloud     
This family sure sounds like a whiny bunch. I bet they'll be just as shocked and outraged when other family members die, even if they're 101.

26 Nov 2012 12:09 PM
EbolaNYC     
I had a more minor incident lik this when I got my tonsils out at age 24. The wound came open and I had to be taken back to the OR, and on the way there, I spit out a coffee cup full of blood.

A little scary but it wasn't a fountain, just a slow leak. Gross.

26 Nov 2012 12:11 PM
JMacPA     

BronyMedic: For fark sakes. They're Doctors. Not Medics. Medic is slang for either a Military Corpsman/Healthcare Specialist, or an EMT/Paramedic in the civilian world.


Actually, it's the opposite. Just because medic has become slang for most of those things doesn't mean it's the correct term.


Especially for one of those things the prefix para- kind of gives it away too.

26 Nov 2012 12:13 PM
katerbug72     

ZAZ: BronyMedic

We have a rare survivor of an aortic dissection (not in a hospital) on Fark: http://www.fark.com/comments/299811/20 01951#c2001951.


Holy shiat, what a story! A local man here had a similar story, I was amazed he survived it.

Link

26 Nov 2012 12:13 PM
ivan    [TotalFark]  
A top doctor also revealed that procedures have been changed since the 57-year-old death.

And we're only hearing about this now?

26 Nov 2012 12:15 PM
triplenickel03     
Awaiting the hour of reprisal. Your time slips away.

26 Nov 2012 12:17 PM
otto the bull     
Why are British women so freaking ugly?

26 Nov 2012 12:18 PM
Ponzholio    [TotalFark]  

ZAZ: He said he now tells all patients set to undergo transoral laser surgery that there is a chance they could bleed to death afterwards.

Still sounds better than chemo.


Whoa whoa whoa! You mean something could go wrong with a surgery near my throat???

26 Nov 2012 12:18 PM
offmymeds     

dittybopper: [img141.imageshack.us image 250x150]

Infidel Defilers. They shall all drown in lakes of blood. Now they will know why they are afraid of the dark. Now they learn why they fear the night.


images2.wikia.nocookie.netView Full Size


More blood for the Blood God!

26 Nov 2012 12:21 PM
Galileo's Daughter     

ZAZ: BronyMedic

We have a rare survivor of an aortic dissection (not in a hospital) on Fark: http://www.fark.com/comments/299811/20 01951#c2001951.


Just curious, but what is the difference between an aortic dissection and an aortic aneurysm?

26 Nov 2012 12:22 PM
ivan    [TotalFark]  

BronyMedic: ZAZ: We have a rare survivor of an aortic dissection (not in a hospital) on Fark

I want to buy that man a beer. Too bad he's already TFer, I'd buy him a week just for being hard to kill period.

I'm an Atheist...


The kind of stuff you see happen to the human organism would probably push me deep into that camp, if I were not there already.

But it could push someone the other way, I suppose.

26 Nov 2012 12:24 PM
qualtrough     
I didn't see anything about him being a nurse, did I miss it? Or is that some inside joke that I missed?

26 Nov 2012 12:25 PM
blatz514    [TotalFark]  
pensfatales.comView Full Size

26 Nov 2012 12:29 PM
I'm an excellent driver     

qualtrough: I didn't see anything about him being a nurse, did I miss it? Or is that some inside joke that I missed?


/FTA Jim, a learning disabilities nurse

26 Nov 2012 12:29 PM
blatz514    [TotalFark]  

qualtrough: I didn't see anything about him being a nurse, did I miss it? Or is that some inside joke that I missed?

Jim, a learning disabilities nurse,


26 Nov 2012 12:30 PM
blatz514    [TotalFark]  

I'm an excellent driver: qualtrough: I didn't see anything about him being a nurse, did I miss it? Or is that some inside joke that I missed?

/FTA Jim, a learning disabilities nurse


Well, that was close

26 Nov 2012 12:31 PM
violetvolume     
Ugh, how awful.

26 Nov 2012 12:32 PM
corronchilejano     

ivan: A top doctor also revealed that procedures have been changed since the 57-year-old death.

And we're only hearing about this now?


Nice catch.

26 Nov 2012 12:37 PM
The My Little Pony Killer     
So this guy has a family full of nurses, and the risks that come with this procedure have been known about for at least 5 years now, but they still have no idea how this could possibly have happened?

I'm sorry you lost a loved one, but taking your melodramatic story to the papers isn't going to help anything.

26 Nov 2012 12:50 PM
BHShaman     
Bleeding out is not that bad I hear.
Not much pain, you get dizzy, pass out, and never wake up.

If he was yelling things he was not drowning.
I could think of much worse things.

/ hope I die of a massive stroke due to highly aerobic intercourse.

26 Nov 2012 12:50 PM
No Such Agency     
offmymeds:
blood for the Blood God!

3.bp.blogspot.comView Full Size


WINE FOR THE TITS GOD! 

/wildly OT

26 Nov 2012 12:51 PM
AntonChigger     

offmymeds: dittybopper: [img141.imageshack.us image 250x150]

Infidel Defilers. They shall all drown in lakes of blood. Now they will know why they are afraid of the dark. Now they learn why they fear the night.

[images2.wikia.nocookie.net image 250x346]

More blood for the Blood God!


On your drop ship hull
I planted a melta bomb
Blood for the Blood God
- Kharn the Betrayer

/first thing I thought of

26 Nov 2012 12:53 PM
The My Little Pony Killer     

Galileo's Daughter: ZAZ: BronyMedic

We have a rare survivor of an aortic dissection (not in a hospital) on Fark: http://www.fark.com/comments/299811/20 01951#c2001951.

Just curious, but what is the difference between an aortic dissection and an aortic aneurysm?


Going by google searches, an aneurysm is where the lining of the blood vessel has weakened and is starting to balloon out whereas with a dissection, it is completely split open.

26 Nov 2012 12:56 PM
Dumb-Ass-Monkey     
"When he was discharged on April 8, which was a Sunday, my uncle noticed he was coughing in the car on the way home.
"He went to bed because he was quite tired, then got up and drove mum to work the next day.
"My sister Ashlee came home in the afternoon and a friend was there who had popped to see him.
"She could see his neck was really swollen, like he had tonsillitis, but at the time he didn't think anything of it.


I'm sorry, but if the day you're discharged from the hospital after having major throat surgery you notice that you're having throat-related problems and choose to do nothing about it, you're a f*cking retard and there's really not a hell of a lot that can be done to prevent Darwin from visiting.

26 Nov 2012 12:56 PM
BronyMedic     

Galileo's Daughter: ZAZ: BronyMedic

We have a rare survivor of an aortic dissection (not in a hospital) on Fark: http://www.fark.com/comments/299811/20 01951#c2001951.

Just curious, but what is the difference between an aortic dissection and an aortic aneurysm?


An aneurysm is just a weakened area of a blood vessel that is bulging out. It can be in any area of the body with an artery or arteriole. Not just the abdomen, chest or brain.

img.tfd.comView Full Size


Dissection means that aneurysm has ruptured and is bleeding out into the visceral cavity and organs surrounding it.

www.surgicalnotes.co.ukView Full Size


Aortic Arch Dissections are rarely survivable unless they're distal to the arch. You literally lose your entire blood volume into your mediastinal, pleural, and pericardial areas in a matter of seconds, and you lose coronary perfusion if it's close to the aortic semi-lunar valve.

Abdominal Aortic Aneurysms are more survivable, but still very deadly. The best place to have one is close to the renal artery branch, because the retroperitoneal cavity can tamponade off the artery for a short while.

Dissection is an "OH CHRIST, OR NOW" moment. Aneurysms, especially if small, can be treated medically.

26 Nov 2012 12:59 PM
offmymeds     

AntonChigger: offmymeds: dittybopper: [img141.imageshack.us image 250x150]

Infidel Defilers. They shall all drown in lakes of blood. Now they will know why they are afraid of the dark. Now they learn why they fear the night.

[images2.wikia.nocookie.net image 250x346]

More blood for the Blood God!

On your drop ship hull
I planted a melta bomb
Blood for the Blood God
- Kharn the Betrayer

/first thing I thought of


Link

26 Nov 2012 01:14 PM
zabadu     

EbolaNYC: I had a more minor incident lik this when I got my tonsils out at age 24. The wound came open and I had to be taken back to the OR, and on the way there, I spit out a coffee cup full of blood.

A little scary but it wasn't a fountain, just a slow leak. Gross.


Me too. The scar didn't close and a giant clot formed. I coughed and wham. Perk? Kaiser takes you first when you have an airway bleed.

"There was no dignity in his death. He knew he was dying and had to stand and watch it happening,"

That makes no sense. He stood and watched himself dying?

26 Nov 2012 01:15 PM
martid4    [TotalFark]  
What is worse is having secks with the girlfriend while she's having a heavy period. After several times that made our place look like a crime scene, I installed a roll of butcher paper on the headboard.

26 Nov 2012 01:20 PM
DownDaRiver     

BronyMedic: [Pedant Trigger]

FTFA: Today Jim's grieving family have questioned why he had to die before medics could realise the dangers - six years after doctors in Australia highlighted the risks.

For fark sakes. They're Doctors. Not Medics. Medic is slang for either a Military Corpsman/Healthcare Specialist, or an EMT/Paramedic in the civilian world.

Paramedics don't perform laser surgery. We lop off limbs that have been trapped under tons of concrete for more than three hours, place an occasional chest tube, and (hopefully never) cut a throat open to put a tube in someone's trachea.

[/Pedant Trigger]

FTFA:
"He coughed up a massive clot of blood and started to gush like a fountain.

"He was hysterical and ran out into the garden, panicking and scared, saying 'I'm going to die' and 'Help me'." An ambulance was called, but by the time paramedics arrived Jim's heart had already stopped. He was taken to Newcastle's Royal Victoria Infirmary where he was pronounced dead.

So either he had an esophageal varice rupture, or he had an aortic dissection of some kind. I'm sad this guy died, but if he had throat or esophageal cancer, that's one of the expected complications of it. There's really nothing in the article that points fault to the Docs like submitter claims, other than the family mad that "no one told them the risks"

In reality, however, there's NOTHING that can be done for this other than being on an OR table when it happens. In the field, Diesel Boluses to a V8 engine combined with Large bore IV or IO access and lots of fluids to keep their systolic around 90mmhg are the only way to even get them somewhere alive, where hopefully GI is setting at the bedside with an endoscope and a banding tool to stop the bleed. If it was an aortic dissection, he could have it happen setting inside of a university hosptial, and still die before he made it into the OR - in fact, active dissection is one of the reasons they'll crack your chest in the ER suite.

Even then, fluids are only going to buy short amounts of time. IV Crystaloids like Normal Saline and LR dilute clotting factors, and thin oxygen carrying blood out without replacing red blood cells or plasma proteins.


Did you even graduate High School?

26 Nov 2012 01:21 PM
mcwehrle     

BronyMedic: [Pedant Trigger]



For fark sakes. They're Doctors. Not Medics. Medic is slang for either a Military Corpsman/Healthcare Specialist, or an EMT/Paramedic in the civilian world.


no.

Medic is a general term for a person involved in medicine; a physician, medical student, or military medical corpsman. In the UK, the term "medic" amongst doctors indicates that someone has followed a "medical" career path accredited by the MRCP such as cardiology or endocrinology. This is in contrast to a surgical branch of specialisation in postgraduate professional training.

26 Nov 2012 01:24 PM
wambu     
Doctors only practise medicine.

26 Nov 2012 01:29 PM
BronyMedic     

DownDaRiver: Did you even graduate High School?


Did you have something to add, or did you think that you needed to say something nonsensical and hit add comment?

mcwehrle: Medic is a general term for a person involved in medicine; a physician, medical student, or military medical corpsman. In the UK, the term "medic" amongst doctors indicates that someone has followed a "medical" career path accredited by the MRCP such as cardiology or endocrinology. This is in contrast to a surgical branch of specialisation in postgraduate professional training.


So it's kinda like how you guys put "ae" in everything, and how you guys have Tea and Crumpets every morning at 10?

26 Nov 2012 01:30 PM
tillerman35     
"He started to cough, so my sister told him to go to the kitchen if he was going to bring up phlegm."

The sister sounds like a real class act. Recovering from cancer surgery? Go be sick somewhere else!

26 Nov 2012 01:44 PM
UnderwaterAlly     
Maybe if you can die from bleeding to death up to 14 days later, you keep them in the hospital for 14 days and make sure that they're not going to cough up a clot that kills them?

26 Nov 2012 01:44 PM
TheBigJerk     

BronyMedic: There's really nothing in the article that points fault to the Docs like submitter claims, other than the family mad that "no one told them the risks"


Smart money says they signed 1 to 3 consent forms which said, "I have read and understand..." those risks, as well as all the other risks.

A question though; while there is no way he would have survived once he hit the "fountain" stage, but I was under the possibly-mistaken impression he would have had a better chance of not throwing that clot if he had been under observation instead of sent home immediately.

Though I suppose that's more expensive for everyone...

26 Nov 2012 01:45 PM
freewill    [TotalFark]  

martid4: What is worse is having secks with the girlfriend while she's having a heavy period. After several times that made our place look like a crime scene, I installed a roll of butcher paper on the headboard.


We just get a hotel room and make our mess there.

26 Nov 2012 01:47 PM
mcwehrle     

BronyMedic: DownDaRiver: Did you even graduate High School?

Did you have something to add, or did you think that you needed to say something nonsensical and hit add comment?

mcwehrle: Medic is a general term for a person involved in medicine; a physician, medical student, or military medical corpsman. In the UK, the term "medic" amongst doctors indicates that someone has followed a "medical" career path accredited by the MRCP such as cardiology or endocrinology. This is in contrast to a surgical branch of specialisation in postgraduate professional training.

So it's kinda like how you guys put "ae" in everything, and how you guys have Tea and Crumpets every morning at 10?


Dude, *I* live in Illinios, have all my life, and even *I* knew that "medic" was a UK term. Made more glaringly apparent by that being a UK news article.

Your back yard, do you ever look past it?

26 Nov 2012 01:49 PM
Galileo's Daughter     

BronyMedic: An aneurysm is just a weakened area of a blood vessel that is bulging out. It can be in any area of the body with an artery or arteriole. Not just the abdomen, chest or brain.

[img.tfd.com image 384x400]

Dissection means that aneurysm has ruptured and is bleeding out into the visceral cavity and organs surrounding it.

[www.surgicalnotes.co.uk image 410x303]

Aortic Arch Dissections are rarely survivable unless they're distal to the arch. You literally lose your entire blood volume into your mediastinal, pleural, and pericardial areas in a matter of seconds, and you lose coronary perfusion if it's close to the aortic semi-lunar valve.

Abdominal Aortic Aneurysms are more survivable, but still very deadly. The best place to have one is close to the renal artery branch, because the retroperitoneal cavity can tamponade off the artery for a short while.

Dissection is an "OH CHRIST, OR NOW" moment. Aneurysms, especially if small, can be treated medically.


Thanks for the explanation.

26 Nov 2012 01:50 PM
BronyMedic     

mcwehrle: Dude, *I* live in Illinios, have all my life, and even *I* knew that "medic" was a UK term. Made more glaringly apparent by that being a UK news article.

Your back yard, do you ever look past it?


Even according to your own definition it would be incorrect usage. Medic is non-surgical, right? A "Medic" wouldn't be using a laser scapel to excise a tumor and cauterize the medusa of blood vessels supplying it, would they?

Also, I like my back yard. I can see Russia from there, don'tcha know.

TheBigJerk: A question though; while there is no way he would have survived once he hit the "fountain" stage, but I was under the possibly-mistaken impression he would have had a better chance of not throwing that clot if he had been under observation instead of sent home immediately.


Not necessarily. The problem wasn't that he "threw a clot", like in a DVT or a Stroke. The problem is that either one of those blood vessels that were cauterized opened up, a part of the tumor broke free and the medusa of blood vessels that supplied it started bleeding, or he had an expected complication of throat/esophageal cancer - like an esophageal varicee, rupture. Throat and mouth cancer patients are nightmares to manage - their anatomy is all jacked up to begin with, and you can't rely on there being normal landmarks to base your airway management from, in addition to any bleeding that's going on.

26 Nov 2012 02:03 PM
DownDaRiver     

BronyMedic: DownDaRiver: Did you even graduate High School?

Did you have something to add, or did you think that you needed to say something nonsensical and hit add comment?

mcwehrle: Medic is a general term for a person involved in medicine; a physician, medical student, or military medical corpsman. In the UK, the term "medic" amongst doctors indicates that someone has followed a "medical" career path accredited by the MRCP such as cardiology or endocrinology. This is in contrast to a surgical branch of specialisation in postgraduate professional training.

So it's kinda like how you guys put "ae" in everything, and how you guys have Tea and Crumpets every morning at 10?


i877.photobucket.comView Full Size


I was just trying to allow you another opportunity to show everyone that big brain of yours

26 Nov 2012 02:09 PM
BronyMedic     

DownDaRiver: I was just trying to allow you another opportunity to show everyone that big brain of yours


So threadshiatting, threadjacking, and personal insults are your idea of intelligent conversation. Nice to know.

26 Nov 2012 02:11 PM
mcwehrle     

BronyMedic:

Even according to your own definition it would be incorrect usage. Medic is non-surgical, right? A "Medic" wouldn't be using a laser scapel to excise a tumor and cauterize the medusa of blood vessels supplying it, would they?



I'm not sure why you are so intent on making this an issue. Oncologists(not classified as a surgical position) or other "Medics" actually can and do perform surgery. Just because your verbal spanking of a UK paper using a UK term properly was just a bit off mark, it's ok. No one is perfect.

Have a lovely day.

26 Nov 2012 02:21 PM
SpaceBison     
Couldn't they have just put a tourniquet on it?
www.chinookmed.comView Full Size

26 Nov 2012 02:27 PM
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