See, here's the problem. Zero-tolerance, no-interpretation, strict-penalty rules are utterly stupid and reflect a complete idiocy within the system whenever they end up being seriously considered.

But that's the problem. When school administrators are given responsibility for "creative problem solving," they come up with shiat like this. So the system's already there.

A few others went as far as to say it sent a negative message to gay students because it portrayed hand-holding by two males to be embarrassing.

Pocket Ninja: See, here's the problem. Zero-tolerance, no-interpretation, strict-penalty rules are utterly stupid and reflect a complete idiocy within the system whenever they end up being seriously considered.

But that's the problem. When school administrators are given responsibility for "creative problem solving," they come up with shiat like this. So the system's already there.

Positions of power attract the people least suited to hold power. Similar phenomenon with positions requiring judgement. So, years of failed judgement led to zero-tolerance policies.

fwiw -I dont mind this type of practice where two choices are offered.

Yeah, this was a bad idea. Making two boys hold hands is going to go over like a lead balloon in Mormon Mesa, AZ.

Two East Valley high school students were forced to hold hands in front of their classmates as punishment for fighting. Now that punishment is drawing criticism.

The students at Westwood High in Mesa were apparently given the option to hold hands instead of being suspended.

At first I was like: "Ok, after fighting, they were giving the option of suspension, or holding hands - an act of friendship, bonding, getting past the disagreement... what's the big deal?"

"Kids were laughing at them and calling them names asking, 'are you gay,'"

Oh yeah. Homophobia. Forgot about that.

styckx: A few others went as far as to say it sent a negative message to gay students because it portrayed hand-holding by two males to be embarrassing.

They were wrestling!

 

Love the IAWSIP crew for getting that shot.

Sexual harassment. Sue the shiat outta the school, kiddos.

impaler: Two East Valley high school students were forced to hold hands in front of their classmates as punishment for fighting. Now that punishment is drawing criticism.

The students at Westwood High in Mesa were apparently given the option to hold hands instead of being suspended.

At first I was like: "Ok, after fighting, they were giving the option of suspension, or holding hands - an act of friendship, bonding, getting past the disagreement... what's the big deal?"

"Kids were laughing at them and calling them names asking, 'are you gay,'"

Oh yeah. Homophobia. Forgot about that.

This has potential to upset so many people; it's beautiful.

I'm imagining the Fark comments section from an alternate universe where the two students are girls. It's a fun thread.

High school snowflakes? Aren't high schoolers a bit old to be snowflakes? Isn't there an age limit to being referred to as a snowflake?

Incontinent_dog_and_monkey_rodeo: I'm imagining the Fark comments section from an alternate universe where the two students are girls. It's a fun thread.

"Go ahead and hug. Now... now smell her hair..."

You act like children, you should be treated like children

"I've been in ROTC and it's no different than some of the stuff you have to do there. It works."


Huh?

WTF are they doing in ROTC?

1-They volunteered.
2-If it was so humiliating, take punitive action on the homosexual slurs from the other students.
3-That is life. Shielding youth from name calling, does not help. Teach them to deal with it.

idonthaveaproblemwiththis.jpg

I pay these people to have a positive influence on my kids, my neighbors kids, and some dude I've never met kid's. fark that.

Headline: 2 Mesa students forced to hold hands

Article: 2 Mesa students given the option to hold hands

It rubs the lotion on its skin or else it gets the hose again.

Happy Hours: "I've been in ROTC and it's no different than some of the stuff you have to do there. It works."


Huh?

WTF are they doing in ROTC?

I think they mean JROTC.

They used to take us down to the gym at lunchtime and strap the boxing gloves on us when we were caught fighting. The entire student body, faculty, and administration would come watch a couple of us try to knock each others blocks off. When it was over we'd try and lift our tired arms and shake hands and that would be the end of it. Win or lose it was kind of humiliating to be part of a public battle, but it was better than the alternate punishment of a three day suspension. Punishment is not supposed to be easy. If it were, they'd have called it something else.

/and there was no long term damage
//unless you count cranial injuries maybe

ThrobblefootSpectre: Headline: 2 Mesa students forced to hold hands

Article: 2 Mesa students given the option to hold hands

Yeah, it's not like the other option was to be suspended...Wait a minute - How bad is a suspension anyway? Isn't that like a short vacation?

Does it go on your "permanent record"? What if one of the students had wanted to hold hands but the other student didn't?

One thing that always pissed me off about getting detention in school was that I would be punished 3 times worse at home than the actual detention while most other kids parents seemed to think the school's punishment was enough.

John_David_Stutts: They used to take us down to the gym at lunchtime and strap the boxing gloves on us when we were caught fighting. The entire student body, faculty, and administration would come watch a couple of us try to knock each others blocks off. When it was over we'd try and lift our tired arms and shake hands and that would be the end of it. Win or lose it was kind of humiliating to be part of a public battle, but it was better than the alternate punishment of a three day suspension. Punishment is not supposed to be easy. If it were, they'd have called it something else.

/and there was no long term damage
//unless you count cranial injuries maybe

That sounds incredibly in favor of the instigator. You bully on a fellow kid, he defends himself(like he should) and you are granted the reward with beating him up, for the second time, but with an audience.

Is the fight or the handholding getting the criticism?

If we leave out the tendentious erotic angle, if that is possible nowadays, hand-holding does symbolize forgiveness. Do not shake hands with someone you do not want to forgive.

Personally, I figure it's better than suspension. In my day, the principal would have paddled both with a wooden paddle or have them paddle each other and the parents would be informed.

Today, that would get the principal tarred and feathered, ridden out of town on a rail, sued down to his underwear and loose his job as well as be damned in the national news.

The level of STUPID in the article by parents is annoying. Ridicule or direct action often is necessary to get a point through a teens thick skull.

In third or fourth grade, there was a class clown who was very disruptive and drove the teacher to distraction. Finally, having put up with it for months, she grabbed him, took some of that huge roll of drawing paper (like the left over rolls used in news papers) and snatched him up, turned the paper into a diaper, poked it on him over his cloths and made his wear it everywhere for the rest of the day.

She said if he was going to act like a baby, then he'd dress like one.

It kinda settled him down a whole lot after that.

Today, parents would demand that the teacher be taken out and shot and lawyers would be lining up at the school.

Us kids usually had other, more direct ways of dealing with harassment or disputes: a direct on punch in the mouth after school. Usually where no adults could see us. Occasionally there'd be some kid who'd start shiat, his victim would beat him to the ground and he'd pop up, too tired to fight but warn the kid it wasn't over.

Sometimes had had to get beaten down two or three times. I always suspected such kids were either more stubborn than mules or had the brains of a brick. Occasionally, one would pull a knife or use a rock and then get carted off to Reform School by the cops. We might read about them years later, after graduation, as they got arrested by the cops, or shot by someone or made jail their second home.

Intervention might have prevented that for those little psychopaths.

Seriously? At my old high school if the two took it in good stride, and made a mockery out of it, they would've been revered by the student body.

Then again, people weren't beat-up for being gay at my school, so yeah.


/AFAIK, at least.

video man: Seriously? At my old high school if the two took it in good stride, and made a mockery out of it, they would've been revered by the student body.

Then again, people weren't beat-up for being gay at my school, so yeah.


/AFAIK, at least.

I was just thinking that. If I were those kids, I'd be grinning from ear to ear at how ridiculous the whole thing was, not hiding my head in shame. But I guess I went to a different kind of high school.

These two have bonded over something now and probably won't want to fight again. I think it works.

I was given an option in high school of detention or eating an entire raw habanero in front of the class with no water. I ate the pepper, no problem. The problem arose when I forgot to wash my hands, then had to take a piss.

I bet it sounded like the better option at first but humiliation(if they actually felt that way) is a pretty tough one to swallow at a young age.

At my high school if you where caught fighting, you had 2 choices:
1. Eat lunch together for a week, carrying each others books, and holding hands.
2. Senior football players take you and your new friend to the basement and let you box each other with 16 oz gloves for as long as you can.

/All boys Catholic school
// get caught smoking: smoke a Cuban
///RIP Fr. Tribou

Gee, if I'm gay I'd pick a guy I had a crush on and get in a fight with him. Maybe they can have them make out next.

wildlifer: At my high school if you where caught fighting, you had 2 choices:
1. Eat lunch together for a week, carrying each others books, and holding hands.
2. Senior football players take you and your new friend to the basement and let you box each other with 16 oz gloves for as long as you can.

/All boys Catholic school
// get caught smoking: smoke a Cuban
///RIP Fr. Tribou

All boys Catholic schools really were the best.

School was really self-policing in that manner. Kids respected most of the teachers. So if the teachers said to be quiet, you'd have the captain of the football or wrestling team saying "Shut up everybody!" I remember once a kid was being a real turd in class. The teacher (not a priest), said "okay guys, I'm going to shut the door and take a walk. When I come back, I would prefer it if he remained silent for the rest of class." Needless to say, that kid was quiet for the rest of the class and most of the semester.

sexorcisst: John_David_Stutts: They used to take us down to the gym at lunchtime and strap the boxing gloves on us when we were caught fighting. The entire student body, faculty, and administration would come watch a couple of us try to knock each others blocks off. When it was over we'd try and lift our tired arms and shake hands and that would be the end of it. Win or lose it was kind of humiliating to be part of a public battle, but it was better than the alternate punishment of a three day suspension. Punishment is not supposed to be easy. If it were, they'd have called it something else.

/and there was no long term damage
//unless you count cranial injuries maybe

That sounds incredibly in favor of the instigator. You bully on a fellow kid, he defends himself(like he should) and you are granted the reward with beating him up, for the second time, but with an audience.

Yes, I see what you are saying, but it always seemed to be a couple of knuckleheads about the same age and size (turns out they were usually classmates or friends) involved as I recall. They both had to be willing to box or it was dealt with in another manor. Bullying wasn't really an issue at my school in those days either.

Mmmm so a young boy in luv should start a punch of with the girl of his dreams.

I can see potential.

At least this way he gets waaay further than was likely.

Alas she would likely take the suspension (which seems an odd punishment for delinquent students, since they do not really want to be at school anyway.)

John_David_Stutts: They used to take us down to the gym at lunchtime and strap the boxing gloves on us when we were caught fighting. The entire student body, faculty, and administration would come watch a couple of us try to knock each others blocks off. When it was over we'd try and lift our tired arms and shake hands and that would be the end of it. Win or lose it was kind of humiliating to be part of a public battle, but it was better than the alternate punishment of a three day suspension. Punishment is not supposed to be easy. If it were, they'd have called it something else.

/and there was no long term damage
//unless you count cranial injuries maybe

Sounds Like Delaware daycare workers arrested after allegedly encouraging children to punch each other

punch up - not punch of - though maybe the later can work :p

Day_Old_Dutchie: John_David_Stutts: They used to take us down to the gym at lunchtime and strap the boxing gloves on us when we were caught fighting. The entire student body, faculty, and administration would come watch a couple of us try to knock each others blocks off. When it was over we'd try and lift our tired arms and shake hands and that would be the end of it. Win or lose it was kind of humiliating to be part of a public battle, but it was better than the alternate punishment of a three day suspension. Punishment is not supposed to be easy. If it were, they'd have called it something else.

/and there was no long term damage
//unless you count cranial injuries maybe

Sounds Like Delaware daycare workers arrested after allegedly encouraging children to punch each other

That link just broke the first two rules.

John_David_Stutts: Yes, I see what you are saying, but it always seemed to be a couple of knuckleheads about the same age and size (turns out they were usually classmates or friends) involved as I recall. They both had to be willing to box or it was dealt with in another manor. Bullying wasn't really an issue at my school in those days either.

Another "manor"?

I got in trouble for a fight in high school - I was an unwilling participant. Some kid threw a rock at my car and I confronted him about it the next day. He attacked me. He was a lineman on the football team and weighed at least twice what I did. I never threw a punch - still got the same punishment. Funniest thing was when he told the principal "It was the camel that broke the straw's back". He wasn't too bright.

That was the 2nd to last fight I was ever in. I punched my roommate in the jaw when I was in college. He had drunk my bottle of rum. Short fight. We calmed down fairly quickly. No holding hands necessary. Still no cure for the empty bottle of rum...that bastard!

John_David_Stutts: Yes, I see what you are saying, but it always seemed to be a couple of knuckleheads about the same age and size (turns out they were usually classmates or friends) involved as I recall. They both had to be willing to box or it was dealt with in another manor. Bullying wasn't really an issue at my school in those days either.

Yeah, it seems like the coaches or principal or whoever set that up would err against a size disparity unless the bully was the smaller guy.

they shouldn't let the kids take pics. but i feel the same way if you're out partying etcetera. glad everyone didn't carry a camera/phone when i was young, screw that.

Hand holding, meh. Back in my day if you were caught fighting you and the others had to go ass to ass in front of the whole school. Young men, women, gangs, it didn't matter. The point was you had to show a new found sense of intimacy and forgiveness, and you had better do it with a hard slapping sound and some visible froth or you'd just have to try again the next day. That's the way it was, and we liked it.

HBK: John_David_Stutts: Yes, I see what you are saying, but it always seemed to be a couple of knuckleheads about the same age and size (turns out they were usually classmates or friends) involved as I recall. They both had to be willing to box or it was dealt with in another manor. Bullying wasn't really an issue at my school in those days either.

Yeah, it seems like the coaches or principal or whoever set that up would err against a size disparity unless the bully was the smaller guy.

It all depends what started it all and how serious it would be. It could have been some name calling or it could have been one guy banging his girlfriend. Hell, these days some goofnad might just sneak a blade into the ring.

Jeez, drill sergeants did that to us at Ft Leonard Wood. Anybody in a fist-fight had to hold hands, sometimes all day. It cut down on fights a LOT.

herrDrFarkenstein: Hand holding, meh. Back in my day if you were caught fighting you and the others had to go ass to ass in front of the whole school. Young men, women, gangs, it didn't matter. The point was you had to show a new found sense of intimacy and forgiveness, and you had better do it with a hard slapping sound and some visible froth or you'd just have to try again the next day. That's the way it was, and we liked it.



ass to ass you say?

So, back to sending them to jail instead?

KrispyKritter: they shouldn't let the kids take pics. but i feel the same way if you're out partying etcetera. glad everyone didn't carry a camera/phone when i was young, screw that.

Sh*t yeah - none of us would ever be able to hold a 'respectable' position due to that one time you did .... something truly embarrassing but heaps funny to all watching.

Back in my day we were tied to each other at the wrist, and each given a knife. Cut way down on repeat fighting.

herrDrFarkenstein: Hand holding, meh. Back in my day if you were caught fighting you and the others had to go ass to ass in front of the whole school. Young men, women, gangs, it didn't matter. The point was you had to show a new found sense of intimacy and forgiveness, and you had better do it with a hard slapping sound and some visible froth or you'd just have to try again the next day. That's the way it was, and we liked it. 

sexorcisst: 1-They volunteered.
2-If it was so humiliating, take punitive action on the homosexual slurs from the other students.
3-That is life. Shielding youth from name calling, does not help. Teach them to deal with it.

Sure. Your boss gives you a choice - you are suspended without pay or you can volunteer to hold hands with your coworker that you were arguing with.