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   Iran captures US drone. This is not a repeat. Tag is for US military that is unable to patch a ten year old software bug with a $.5 trillion annual budget

04 Dec 2012 08:26 AM   |   11001 clicks   |   BBC
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cman    [TotalFark]  
10 foot wingspan?

I dont know much about Radar, but is 10 feet enough to be seen on it?

04 Dec 2012 08:16 AM
Slives    [TotalFark]  
CMAN
They track 6 inch objects in space to make sure they don't collide with the space station, so why not a 10 foot drone at 5000 feet?

04 Dec 2012 08:23 AM
jso2897     
Well, maybe if we cut funding to PBS and Planned Parenthood, we can balance the budget and afford better drones.

04 Dec 2012 08:27 AM
Onkel Buck     
Meh, government pissing away more money on things that don't work. Sounds about right

04 Dec 2012 08:30 AM
poe_zlaw     
I wonder where the article states they havent fixed a software bug. Was it before or after the US states it isnt missing any drones? Oh, or is it after the picture of the toy drone the Iranians made after claiming they hacked a stealth drone.

04 Dec 2012 08:32 AM
Zeno-25     
i.imgur.comView Full Size

04 Dec 2012 08:33 AM
starsrift     
I like how they include the part about, "This happened before, and the USA denied it, then asked for the drone back."

04 Dec 2012 08:33 AM
JackieRabbit     
Those Iranians are about as good with Photoshop and the DoD is with misinformation. Sure keeps us all guessing.

04 Dec 2012 08:34 AM
CujoQuarrel     
And you believe them?

04 Dec 2012 08:38 AM
LesserEvil    [TotalFark]  
:::sigh::: why do people believe Iran, even after the fake "RQ-70" nonsense that was clearly a mockup?

04 Dec 2012 08:40 AM
untaken_name     
If we don't lose any, we don't need to keep overpaying for replacements. Think of the poor, starving defense contractors.

04 Dec 2012 08:40 AM
prjindigo     
uhm

Take a look at the prop. Its canted the wrong way to be a pushing blade.
For a heavily re-used system that uses NETS to capture at the end of mission there's very little damage on it.
I'm thinking someone bought one and shipped it to them.

04 Dec 2012 08:41 AM
manimal2878     

Slives: CMAN
They track 6 inch objects in space to make sure they don't collide with the space station, so why not a 10 foot drone at 5000 feet?


They track the those tiny objects in space mathematically, they have a predictable orbit and don't change unless acted upon by an outside force. A drone is not the same at all.

04 Dec 2012 08:43 AM
way south     

Onkel Buck: Meh, government pissing away more money on things that don't work. Sounds about right


They work quite well, most of the time.
Unmanned aircraft are simply susceptible to more kinds of failures than their manned brethren.

dl.dropbox.comView Full Size


That said, they are easier to sacrifice in high risk missions, and easier to lose track of.
The US or another government can easily lose one and not know because the team that launched thought it crashed someplace else or hasn't had a chance to report it.

04 Dec 2012 08:45 AM
xanadian    [TotalFark]  
Oh, government...

Governments also like to not spend money on keeping their web apps up to date. I think it was only a short while ago, I encountered a government web page optimized for IE6. SIX!!! IE9 wouldn't work with it, let alone Firefox.

Didn't think it possible, but there you go.

/I think it was a Department of Agriculture site

04 Dec 2012 08:45 AM
ghostwind     
Tag is for US military that is unable to patch a ten year old software bug with a $.5 trillion annual budget

GOP needs something to justify a budget increase. It appears they now have it.

04 Dec 2012 08:48 AM
manimal2878     

ghostwind: Tag is for US military that is unable to patch a ten year old software bug with a $.5 trillion annual budget

GOP needs something to justify a budget increase. It appears they now have it.


Why? Has the GOP stopped pretending that the drone program is the worst most sickening thing to happen in war?

04 Dec 2012 08:51 AM
Easy Reader     
"Can we please have our spy drone back, pretty please with sugar on top?" (if we really said that)

While I always want USA to win, I often think that we just assume everyone will bend to our will without resistance. Back in the early days of Baghdad war, there was an air of surprise that Iraq just didn't "give up" when we rolled into town. I think that's a bad state of being.

04 Dec 2012 08:51 AM
Onkel Buck     

way south: Onkel Buck: Meh, government pissing away more money on things that don't work. Sounds about right

They work quite well, most of the time.
Unmanned aircraft are simply susceptible to more kinds of failures than their manned brethren.

[dl.dropbox.com image 850x564]

That said, they are easier to sacrifice in high risk missions, and easier to lose track of.
The US or another government can easily lose one and not know because the team that launched thought it crashed someplace else or hasn't had a chance to report it.


I know they work pretty good, I was just being snarky. I got to watch them fly one around Bosnia while I was at Tasar airfield in Hungary.

04 Dec 2012 08:53 AM
dryknife     
Need Iranic tag.

04 Dec 2012 08:54 AM
YakBoy42     

poe_zlaw: I wonder where the article states they havent fixed a software bug. Was it before or after the US states it isnt missing any drones? Oh, or is it after the picture of the toy drone the Iranians made after claiming they hacked a stealth drone.


Maybe subby was referring to the "software bug" of the video feeds from drones being unencrypted and easily intercepted. Something that was a problem back in 2008 and remains an issue today. Doesn't take a whole lot of "hacking" when the real time video of what the drone is looking at is being broadcast in the clear.

04 Dec 2012 08:56 AM
machoprogrammer     

manimal2878: ghostwind: Tag is for US military that is unable to patch a ten year old software bug with a $.5 trillion annual budget

GOP needs something to justify a budget increase. It appears they now have it.

Why? Has the GOP stopped pretending that the drone program is the worst most sickening thing to happen in war?


Yeah, because Obama is a member of the GOP

04 Dec 2012 08:56 AM
This text is now purple     
Isn't the whole benefit of them that they are disposable?

04 Dec 2012 08:58 AM
zedster    [TotalFark]  

LesserEvil: :::sigh::: why do people believe Iran, even after the fake "RQ-70" nonsense that was clearly a mockup?


they did capture a RQ-170 questions is if it crashed on it's own or Iran had Russian or Chinese help to GPS spoof it down

04 Dec 2012 09:01 AM
RevCarter     

LesserEvil: :::sigh::: why do people believe Iran, even after the fake "RQ-70" nonsense that was clearly a mockup?


This.

04 Dec 2012 09:03 AM
ghostwind     

manimal2878: ghostwind: Tag is for US military that is unable to patch a ten year old software bug with a $.5 trillion annual budget

GOP needs something to justify a budget increase. It appears they now have it.

Why? Has the GOP stopped pretending that the drone program is the worst most sickening thing to happen in war?


I suppose I forgot to indicate my sarcasam in my comment...

//sarcastic, really I am.

04 Dec 2012 09:05 AM
JackieRabbit     

This text is now purple: Isn't the whole benefit of them that they are disposable?


No. They aren't disposable. In fact, they are rather expensive, though far cheaper than regular surveillance aircraft. They have a stealth design and can get in close to targets without detection.

Be very wary of Iran's claim folks. Just as before, they are only showing partial images of the drone, not the whole thing. It's possibly another mock-up. Of course the US is not going to deny or confirm anything. And yes, we will say "So you claim to have captured one of our drones. But we aren't missing one. So give us what you have. Come on; we dare you."

04 Dec 2012 09:06 AM
zedster    [TotalFark]  

YakBoy42: Maybe subby was referring to the "software bug" of the video feeds from drones being unencrypted and easily intercepted. Something that was a problem back in 2008 and remains an issue today. Doesn't take a whole lot of "hacking" when the real time video of what the drone is looking at is being broadcast in the clear.


ya, but that is because of bandwidth issues, encrypted traffic takes up more bandwidth on already over loaded satellites. The $40 software that could intercept the video was only good if the drone was within line of sight range (~15 miles).

04 Dec 2012 09:07 AM
Dinodork     

This text is now purple: Isn't the whole benefit of them that they are disposable?


Sometimes engines fail. This thing probably settled into the sea in a glide. Wonder how much battery it has, and how much of the recovery it sent back.

04 Dec 2012 09:13 AM
IAMTHEINTARWEBS     

prjindigo: uhm

Take a look at the prop. Its canted the wrong way to be a pushing blade.
For a heavily re-used system that uses NETS to capture at the end of mission there's very little damage on it.
I'm thinking someone bought one and shipped it to them.


Don't you have to know which way it rotates to determine if the cant is correct? (not being snarky, I'm asking cause I'm not sure)

04 Dec 2012 09:14 AM
Harry Freakstorm     
It was a rough day for Fahir. The newsboy for the Revolutionary News was shot by his neighbor. The newsboy, it was alleged had demanded his payment of two dollars and the neighbor declared him a victim of consumerism and shot him.

So no newspaper for Fasil. What pictures of food was he going to eat for breakfast now? Hungry, he went off to work. His job at the Ministry of Propaganda was at least a steady one. Should they ever decide to pay him, it would be a nice job. He worked in the Photoshop Department. His job was so important that he even had a computer and electricity. Someday, he hoped to get a desk and a chair and Allah willing, a roof.

He knew he was going to have a bad day when he saw Ahmed the Brutal Supervisor. Why would anyone ever name their child that? Fasil wondered. And what are the chances that someone named Ahmed the Brutal Supervisor would become a Supervisor known only for his Brutality? Fasil sometimes wondered if Allah didn't have a warped sense of humor.

"Fasil. I need you to build me a drone. U S style. Make it look like it can fly, take pictures and bomb children. End of the day or end of your life" Ahmed said.

"But benevolent Supervisor" Fasil pleaded "I am but a Photoshopper Third Class. What you request is exactly one more dimension that my training allows!"

"All of the modelling experts were purged yesterday. They were caught making sexual devices for women. Either that or rockets. We couldn't be sure for we went with our hearts and bayonets."

"My skills may not be up to the task," Fasil said.

"Do it or you will be dining with virgins, Fasil" the supervisor said. "Be it known that I am not without mercy. I shall provide you reasonable encouragement.

The man with the rifle pointed to the small of Fasil's brain did very little to encourage him. But one time, when his scalp itched, the flash suppressor scratched it neatly.

Fasil finished his work, notified his superior who decided it was acceptable both in the eyes of the people and Allah's. Fasil was allowed to leave the workplace and return home where he was delighted to learn that most of his family survived the day. It wasn't his best work like those missile launch photos but he wasn't chopped up and fed to the dogs either.

encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.comView Full Size

04 Dec 2012 09:21 AM
This text is now purple     

JackieRabbit: This text is now purple: Isn't the whole benefit of them that they are disposable?

No. They aren't disposable. In fact, they are rather expensive, though far cheaper than regular surveillance aircraft. They have a stealth design and can get in close to targets without detection.


I didn't literally mean they were one use and discard. I meant they were a small, cheap, platform without a pilot, and built with the understanding that if some got destroyed, nothing of value was lost. There's no pilot, there's no fancy secret avionics -- it's a fancy R/C plane with a camera that accomplishes stealth by being small, quiet, and low-to-the-ground.

04 Dec 2012 09:30 AM
dittybopper    [TotalFark]  

cman: 10 foot wingspan?

I dont know much about Radar, but is 10 feet enough to be seen on it?


Yep.

Assuming it's not "stealthy", it most certainly would. RADAR works by bouncing radio waves off the target and back. The wavelength of the radio signal determines the size of the object that can be reliably detected: It must be a significant fraction of a wavelength (preferably at least 1/2 wavelength). The most common long-range search radars have a frequency around 400 MHz, which is a wavelength about 75 centimeters, or roughly 2.5 feet. A drone with a wingspan of 10 feet is certainly big enough to be detected, being roughly 8 half-wavelengths long. Radars go up in frequency, and down in wavelength, from there: some are L-band (near 1300 MHz, or 9 inches wavelength), some S-band (around 3 GHz, or 3.9 inch wavelength), some X-band (around 10 GHz, or about 1 inch wavelength).

04 Dec 2012 09:31 AM
SithLord     
Someone should photoshop the POW/MIA flag with a drone silhouette.

\too lazy myself.

04 Dec 2012 09:34 AM
dittybopper    [TotalFark]  

zedster: YakBoy42: Maybe subby was referring to the "software bug" of the video feeds from drones being unencrypted and easily intercepted. Something that was a problem back in 2008 and remains an issue today. Doesn't take a whole lot of "hacking" when the real time video of what the drone is looking at is being broadcast in the clear.

ya, but that is because of bandwidth issues, encrypted traffic takes up more bandwidth on already over loaded satellites. The $40 software that could intercept the video was only good if the drone was within line of sight range (~15 miles).


I find that hard to believe. It might take more processing power on board the drone, and hence more equipment and software to run it, but it doesn't necessarily take more bandwidth. Any encryption scheme that results in the encrypted form being significantly larger than the unencrypted form is inefficient.

04 Dec 2012 09:36 AM
corronchilejano     

jso2897: Well, maybe if we cut funding to PBS and Planned Parenthood, we can balance the budget and afford better drones.


7/10, nice tangent.

04 Dec 2012 09:37 AM
fo_sho!     

Harry Freakstorm: It was a rough day for Fahir. The newsboy for the Revolutionary News was shot by his neighbor. The newsboy, it was alleged had demanded his payment of two dollars and the neighbor declared him a victim of consumerism and shot him.

So no newspaper for Fasil. What pictures of food was he going to eat for breakfast now? Hungry, he went off to work. His job at the Ministry of Propaganda was at least a steady one. Should they ever decide to pay him, it would be a nice job. He worked in the Photoshop Department. His job was so important that he even had a computer and electricity. Someday, he hoped to get a desk and a chair and Allah willing, a roof.

He knew he was going to have a bad day when he saw Ahmed the Brutal Supervisor. Why would anyone ever name their child that? Fasil wondered. And what are the chances that someone named Ahmed the Brutal Supervisor would become a Supervisor known only for his Brutality? Fasil sometimes wondered if Allah didn't have a warped sense of humor.

"Fasil. I need you to build me a drone. U S style. Make it look like it can fly, take pictures and bomb children. End of the day or end of your life" Ahmed said.

"But benevolent Supervisor" Fasil pleaded "I am but a Photoshopper Third Class. What you request is exactly one more dimension that my training allows!"

"All of the modelling experts were purged yesterday. They were caught making sexual devices for women. Either that or rockets. We couldn't be sure for we went with our hearts and bayonets."

"My skills may not be up to the task," Fasil said.

"Do it or you will be dining with virgins, Fasil" the supervisor said. "Be it known that I am not without mercy. I shall provide you reasonable encouragement.

The man with the rifle pointed to the small of Fasil's brain did very little to encourage him. But one time, when his scalp itched, the flash suppressor scratched it neatly.

Fasil finished his work, notified his superior who decided it was acceptable bot ...


Cute...but the RQ-170 was real. Multiple sources within the US confirmed it.

04 Dec 2012 09:40 AM
TV's Vinnie     
The point OF unmanned drones is that it's not too big of a loss if one goes down. Because at least Iran won't get to have their own "Gary Powers".

www.456fis.orgView Full Size

04 Dec 2012 09:48 AM
physt     

Well, it's not like they'll know what to do with it.

www.freewebs.comView Full Size

04 Dec 2012 09:54 AM
JackieRabbit     

This text is now purple: JackieRabbit: This text is now purple: Isn't the whole benefit of them that they are disposable?

No. They aren't disposable. In fact, they are rather expensive, though far cheaper than regular surveillance aircraft. They have a stealth design and can get in close to targets without detection.

I didn't literally mean they were one use and discard. I meant they were a small, cheap, platform without a pilot, and built with the understanding that if some got destroyed, nothing of value was lost. There's no pilot, there's no fancy secret avionics -- it's a fancy R/C plane with a camera that accomplishes stealth by being small, quiet, and low-to-the-ground.


But, that is not the purpose of the drones. They aren't cheap. They are quite valuable and carry very sensitive technology that we would not want to fall into the hands of an enemy. This is why all but the simplest photographic drones can be remotely destroyed.

04 Dec 2012 09:55 AM
dabbletech     
But subby, TFA says: "But the US Navy said none of its drones was missing in the Middle East.

Other nations in the region, including the United Arab Emirates, also operate ScanEagles - low-cost, long-endurance aircraft with a 10ft (3m) wingspan, Associated Press says."

04 Dec 2012 10:09 AM
Vkingbanna     
Wanted for questioning.
www.devildead.comView Full Size

04 Dec 2012 10:21 AM
Erix     

dabbletech: But subby, TFA says: "But the US Navy said none of its drones was missing in the Middle East.

Other nations in the region, including the United Arab Emirates, also operate ScanEagles - low-cost, long-endurance aircraft with a 10ft (3m) wingspan, Associated Press says."


What, like Iran would lie?

files.abovetopsecret.comView Full Size

04 Dec 2012 10:31 AM
clowncar on fire     

Slives: CMAN
They track 6 inch objects in space to make sure they don't collide with the space station, so why not a 10 foot drone at 5000 feet?


10' wingspan- 4' body flying at up to 20k ft. Capable of 20 hours hang time without using it's engines. And not actually one of ours: sub-letted from Bahrain.

04 Dec 2012 10:37 AM
spideyknix     
It was prob part of some remote tact team that was doing routine surveillance for an encounter/mission etc. That is why it is unmarked, and will be denied wholly. It is ours, it prob just ran out of fuel and had little to no value for recovery because the prospect of getting caught is too great. We are doing stuff routinely over there whether or not it is admitted. Small acts and inserts now lead to bigger and more strategic booms later.

04 Dec 2012 10:40 AM
Jim_Callahan     
But the US Navy said none of its drones was missing in the Middle East.

Other nations in the region, including the United Arab Emirates, also operate ScanEagles - low-cost, long-endurance aircraft with a 10ft (3m) wingspan, Associated Press says.


Looks like this is the usual blaming America for shiat that has nothing to do with us. The drone type can basically be bought from the international arms equivalent of wal-mart, this is the equivalent of waking up to find that someone has stolen your newspaper and concluding that only the Jews could have done this.

04 Dec 2012 10:42 AM
porcupine tree     
Can't they just add a self destruct feature to these things, in case they fall into enemy hands? That way, not only are they unable to reverse engineer them, they also can't use them for propaganda and there's no proof that we were spying on them in the first place.

04 Dec 2012 10:47 AM
KidKorporate     
I used to design these, it's not a big deal if Iran has one. There's not really any tech on them that wasn't available in 1985 and they cost about $120,000 depending on the optics package they carry. What IS novel is the capture system, the plane has small hooks/claws on the ends of its wings that grab onto a vertical arresting cable strung from a modified genie lift. Other than gliding into the sea which is a semi-regular occurrence, that's the only way to get one of these out of the air in once piece. Makes me think they either plucked it out of the drink or somebody sold them one.

04 Dec 2012 10:50 AM
porcupine tree     
What if we actually want the drones to be captured, and they are really modern day Trojan Horses filled with trained hamsters who sneak out and gather information!

04 Dec 2012 10:50 AM
Dinodork     

porcupine tree: Can't they just add a self destruct feature to these things, in case they fall into enemy hands? That way, not only are they unable to reverse engineer them, they also can't use them for propaganda and there's no proof that we were spying on them in the first place.


Isreal did something similar. They intentionally "crashed" a small drone in Lebanon. Hezbollah took the prize back to one of its depots to examine, when the drone exploded, taking out a munitions dump with it.

Classic Trojan Horse.

04 Dec 2012 10:53 AM
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