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   The latest atheist outrage? People watching "Merry Christmas Charlie Brown"

05 Dec 2012 10:53 AM   |   11745 clicks   |   Fox News
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vernonFL    [TotalFark]  
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"And there were in the same country shepherds abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night. And, lo, the angel of the Lord came upon them, and the glory of the Lord shone round about them: and they were sore afraid. And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people. For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Savior, which is Christ the Lord. And this shall be a sign unto you; Ye shall find the babe wrapped in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger. And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God, and saying, Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace and goodwill towards men.

.And that's what Christmas is all about, Charlie Brown.

05 Dec 2012 09:33 AM
doyner    [TotalFark]  
"Students at Terry Elementary School had been planning to attend a school-day field trip to watch a stage version of the holiday classic - hosted by the church. The event was strictly voluntary and teachers sent home letters explaining the purpose of the trip."

Substitute "church" with "mosque" and regardless of the content of the performance the outrage would have been from Fox's base.

Non-story, folks. Carving out a few hours from a public school day to take kids to a church to watch a story about how Linus and Charlie Brown are touched by the birth of Christ is clearly over the line.

05 Dec 2012 09:36 AM
kronicfeld    [TotalFark]  
The latest atheist outrage? People watching A public school taking children to church to watch a stage performance of "Merry Christmas Charlie Brown," which has a direct recitation from the bible in its seminal scene

05 Dec 2012 09:37 AM
Coco LaFemme     
......and this is why people hate atheists.

05 Dec 2012 09:39 AM
Cythraul     
Most atheists I know love Charlie Brown Christmas.

05 Dec 2012 09:41 AM
Teknowaffle    [TotalFark]  
As much as I love Merry Christmas Charlie Brown (despite being an evil atheist), a public school should never be going even voluntarily to a performance hosted by a church/mosque/synagogue.

05 Dec 2012 09:43 AM
minoridiot     
Aren't field trips optional?

05 Dec 2012 09:45 AM
Rincewind53    [TotalFark]  

Coco LaFemme: ......and this is why people hate atheists.


Because they don't like children going to see school-sponsored plays in churches about the birth of Jesus?

05 Dec 2012 09:45 AM
AbbeySomeone     

Coco LaFemme: ......and this is why people hate atheists.


Really. You just do NOT f*ck with Charlie Brown Christmas special. You just do not go there. If you are offended don't let your kids go.

Cythraul: Most atheists I know love Charlie Brown Christmas.


Religious people give us plenty of reason to loathe them as well but I have watched that show every year since it came out.

05 Dec 2012 09:45 AM
R.A.Danny    [TotalFark]  
I hope and pray that your hearts are turned back to the Lord. It isn't too late.

05 Dec 2012 09:49 AM
give me doughnuts     
I watch the Charlie Brown Christmas show every year, and I'm one of those evil atheist types. The objection was that a school was taking a field trip to a church.

05 Dec 2012 09:49 AM
Teknowaffle    [TotalFark]  

minoridiot: Aren't field trips optional?


Doesn't matter. As soon as you put kids whose parents opted to have them put on a bus paid for by tax dollars, chaperone by teachers paid by tax dollars, and the kids are counted as present on a school day, and thus get federal funds, you are violating the first amendment.

05 Dec 2012 09:50 AM
Cythraul     

R.A.Danny: I hope and pray that your hearts are turned back to the Lord. It isn't too late.


Sorry. I signed Satan's exclusivity deal.

05 Dec 2012 09:51 AM
R.A.Danny    [TotalFark]  

Cythraul: R.A.Danny: I hope and pray that your hearts are turned back to the Lord. It isn't too late.

Sorry. I signed Satan's exclusivity deal.


So you DO believe?

05 Dec 2012 09:51 AM
mattharvest     

R.A.Danny: I hope and pray that your hearts are turned back to the Lord. It isn't too late.


Oh good, you're going to pray. I was concerned you were going to do something that could actually accomplish anything.

No public school should be bringing kids to a performance within explicitly proselytizing tone, much less one that includes passages from a religious text presented in anything but a scholarly fashion.

05 Dec 2012 09:51 AM
give me doughnuts     

R.A.Danny: I hope and pray that your hearts are turned back to the Lord. It isn't too late.


Truth. The All-Father needs more followers. "To You, Dread Lord, I dedicate this battle-field, this harvest of Men!"

05 Dec 2012 09:51 AM
kronicfeld    [TotalFark]  

minoridiot: Aren't field trips optional?


Sure. But the question has nothing to do with the children's or parents' consent or ability to opt out, it has to do with the initiation of state action.

The school couldn't say, "Hey, we're taking a 'field trip' to 'watch' Catholic Mass, but you can opt out if you don't want to go" and have it pass muster.

05 Dec 2012 09:54 AM
Coco LaFemme     

Rincewind53: Coco LaFemme: ......and this is why people hate atheists.

Because they don't like children going to see school-sponsored plays in churches about the birth of Jesus?


Maybe those people need to pull the sticks out of their asses and lighten up. I'm an atheist. We're never going to be a secular society, completely devoid of religious worship. People are going to believe. You can't do a damn thing about that. It's farking Charlie Brown. It's been a while since I've last seen it, but to my recollection, Jesus or the birth of Jesus is mentioned only once in the entire film.

If I had kids, and the school took them to see a play where at one point in the play, a Bible verse was recited, you know what I'd do? Nothing. That's what I'd do. "Oh no, my children were exposed to a point of view that differs from my own, whatever shall I do?" Children have to learn at some point there's different kinds of people in this world. I'd tell them that while I don't believe in God, lots of other people do, and that's just as okay. It's not going to hurt them. They aren't going to burst into flames and become charcoal briquettes.

05 Dec 2012 09:54 AM
R.A.Danny    [TotalFark]  
This is what it is all about

Still gives me chills

05 Dec 2012 09:54 AM
R.A.Danny    [TotalFark]  

kronicfeld: The school couldn't say, "Hey, we're taking a 'field trip' to 'watch' Catholic Mass, but you can opt out if you don't want to go" and have it pass muster.


The Bible, the Quran, and other religious writings have been studied in public schools for years, with full legal backing. They may certainly bring kids to religious ceremonies in the name of education.

05 Dec 2012 09:56 AM
t3knomanser     

Coco LaFemme: We're never going to be a secular society, completely devoid of religious worship.


This exists to protect believers, too. Does this school have no Jews? Muslims? Hindus? Is it right for the school to discriminate against them? Sure, it's an atheist organization that's doing the complaining, but by what right does the school marginalize religious believers that aren't Christian?

05 Dec 2012 09:57 AM
exick    [TotalFark]  

AbbeySomeone: If you are offended don't let your kids go.


I don't think anyone's offended by the cartoon/play. What they take offense to is the school-sponsored religious activity.

05 Dec 2012 09:57 AM
t3knomanser     

R.A.Danny: They may certainly bring kids to religious ceremonies in the name of education.


For the purpose of education, yes, but it's a very fuzzy line. A religious studies class could attend a mass, but you couldn't send the entire 5th grade, for example.

05 Dec 2012 09:57 AM
Coco LaFemme     

t3knomanser: Coco LaFemme: We're never going to be a secular society, completely devoid of religious worship.

This exists to protect believers, too. Does this school have no Jews? Muslims? Hindus? Is it right for the school to discriminate against them? Sure, it's an atheist organization that's doing the complaining, but by what right does the school marginalize religious believers that aren't Christian?


How is this marginalizing them? Is it telling them they're less than human or not as good as Christians? Is it devaluing their religious beliefs and/or mocking them?

05 Dec 2012 10:00 AM
kronicfeld    [TotalFark]  

R.A.Danny: The Bible, the Quran, and other religious writings have been studied in public schools for years, with full legal backing. They may certainly bring kids to religious ceremonies in the name of education.


If they're going to have a scholarly discussion about the religious themes in the play upon returning to school and explore comparative religious education regarding the historical origins of Christmas (including Saturnalia and pagans) and other religions' observances, then of course it is legitimate. Somehow, though, I doubt that is what is happening.

05 Dec 2012 10:01 AM
R.A.Danny    [TotalFark]  

t3knomanser: For the purpose of education, yes, but it's a very fuzzy line. A religious studies class could attend a mass, but you couldn't send the entire 5th grade, for example.


Of course. I wasn't speaking in absolutes.

t3knomanser: This exists to protect believers, too. Does this school have no Jews? Muslims? Hindus? Is it right for the school to discriminate against them? Sure, it's an atheist organization that's doing the complaining, but by what right does the school marginalize religious believers that aren't Christian?


Having served in the USMC I was thankful for the opportunity to see how people worship in many places in the world. Absolutely fascinating.

05 Dec 2012 10:01 AM
kronicfeld    [TotalFark]  
He said it was clear "Merry Christmas Charlie Brown" did not pose a constitutional issue.

"Christmas is a Christian holiday - hence it's name - Christmas," the pastor wrote in his statement. "Our program addresses its origins with light-hearted songs and theatre. The context of the birth of Christ is broadly described in both Old and New Testament texts."


Whooooooooooooooooooosh.

05 Dec 2012 10:02 AM
R.A.Danny    [TotalFark]  

kronicfeld: If they're going to have a scholarly discussion about the religious themes in the play upon returning to school and explore comparative religious education regarding the historical origins of Christmas (including Saturnalia and pagans) and other religions' observances, then of course it is legitimate. Somehow, though, I doubt that is what is happening.


It's gotta be better than Santa Claus Conquers the Martians

05 Dec 2012 10:02 AM
kronicfeld    [TotalFark]  

R.A.Danny: It's gotta be better than Santa Claus Conquers the Martians


You leave Pia Zadora out of this.

05 Dec 2012 10:04 AM
Elzar     
I don't see the harm really - Jesus is as real as Santa Claus after all. Most bright kids understand its a big game of make believe and will do fine in college once they are deprogrammed by their marxist socialist hippie professors...

05 Dec 2012 10:05 AM
Nabb1    [TotalFark]  

kronicfeld: R.A.Danny: It's gotta be better than Santa Claus Conquers the Martians

You leave Pia Zadora out of this.


Lord knows no one ever left anything out of Pia Zadora.

05 Dec 2012 10:08 AM
t3knomanser     

Coco LaFemme: Is it telling them they're ... not as good as Christians?


Yes. The Christians get a special treat about their holiday myths. No one else does. Giving one group a reward while withholding similar rewards from other groups is the core of marginalization.

R.A.Danny: It's gotta be better than Santa Claus Conquers the Martians


Which at least is overwhelmingly secular in its approach to Christmas. It would be much more acceptable than Charlie Brown.

Part of the overall confusion, I think, is that America has two Christmases. There is Christmas as a solstice celebration, with decorated trees and the exchange of gifts, deeply steeped in Nordic mythology but more-or-less secular. Then there is Christmas as the Christian religious holiday. The former is suitable for celebration by public institutions, but the latter is not.

//The MST3K of Santa Claus and Santa Claus Conquers the Martians are Christmas traditions in my house.

05 Dec 2012 10:09 AM
FlashHarry    [TotalFark]  
hello? yes, this is atheist.

i love a charlie brown christmas. and the biblical content doesn't bother me one bit. it's just as fictional as the rest of the story, but it's sweet in its intent. sometimes people should just STFU and relax.

05 Dec 2012 10:10 AM
xanadian    [TotalFark]  
FTFA: Students at Terry Elementary School had been planning to attend a school-day field trip to watch a stage version of the holiday classic - hosted by the church. The event was strictly voluntary and teachers sent home letters explaining the purpose of the trip.

Society of Freethinkers, indeed.

05 Dec 2012 10:10 AM
xanadian    [TotalFark]  

FlashHarry: hello? yes, this is atheist.

i love a charlie brown christmas. and the biblical content doesn't bother me one bit. it's just as fictional as the rest of the story, but it's sweet in its intent. sometimes people should just STFU and relax.


Someone forgot to tell these "freethinkers" that they do not have a Constitutional right to not be offended.

05 Dec 2012 10:11 AM
Mugato    [TotalFark]  
At first I thought it was ridiculous but I never saw the Christmas special and I didn't know it was quite that religious in nature. Someone up-thread is right, if this was "It's Ramada, Charlie Brown" held in a mosque, people would be rioting in the streets. All or nothing.

05 Dec 2012 10:12 AM
xanadian    [TotalFark]  

Rincewind53: Coco LaFemme: ......and this is why people hate atheists.

Because they don't like children going to see school-sponsored plays in churches about the birth of Jesus?


....where parents can opt out of the field trip for whatever reasons (including them not wanting their children to potentially be indoctrinated into Christianity)? A. It's right in TFA that it's voluntary and B. field trips have been "optional" since day one.

05 Dec 2012 10:13 AM
Coco LaFemme     

t3knomanser: Coco LaFemme: Is it telling them they're ... not as good as Christians?

Yes. The Christians get a special treat about their holiday myths. No one else does. Giving one group a reward while withholding similar rewards from other groups is the core of marginalization.


You're kidding, right? THIS WAS VOLUNTARY. As in, not required. If you, as a non-Christian, didn't feel comfortable with your child attending a play held in a church.....you didn't send the little snot and all was well. How is a totally voluntary field trip "marginalizing" someone? If every student was forced to attend and then write a report on Christianity, I could see and support the outrage but for fark's sake.....this is people whining for the sake of whining.

05 Dec 2012 10:14 AM
t3knomanser     

xanadian: It's right in TFA that it's voluntary and B. field trips have been "optional" since day one.


And why aren't children of other faiths offered a similar field trip? Why is one group given an advantage that other groups are not?

05 Dec 2012 10:15 AM
Nabb1    [TotalFark]  

Mugato: At first I thought it was ridiculous but I never saw the Christmas special and I didn't know it was quite that religious in nature. Someone up-thread is right, if this was "It's Ramada, Charlie Brown" held in a mosque, people would be rioting in the streets. All or nothing.


Like Ramada Inn? Why would you do that in a mosque?

05 Dec 2012 10:15 AM
Rincewind53    [TotalFark]  

xanadian: Rincewind53: Coco LaFemme: ......and this is why people hate atheists.

Because they don't like children going to see school-sponsored plays in churches about the birth of Jesus?

....where parents can opt out of the field trip for whatever reasons (including them not wanting their children to potentially be indoctrinated into Christianity)? A. It's right in TFA that it's voluntary and B. field trips have been "optional" since day one.


Look, I don't think this is particularly egregious and I don't actually have much of a problem with it myself. But I can see why some people might, especially with the statement from the pastor explaining that this is to explain the origins of Christmas. Also, the "Well, you don't have to come" argument doesn't give the school the right to do otherwise impermissible things. It's about school sponsorship, and who wants to be the kid who has to explain to his classmates why he isn't going along with everyone else? If the school took a "field trip" to a megachurch to go see Billy Graham, and made it "optional", it'd still be unconstitutional as hell.

05 Dec 2012 10:16 AM
Mugato    [TotalFark]  

Nabb1: Mugato: At first I thought it was ridiculous but I never saw the Christmas special and I didn't know it was quite that religious in nature. Someone up-thread is right, if this was "It's Ramada, Charlie Brown" held in a mosque, people would be rioting in the streets. All or nothing.

Like Ramada Inn? Why would you do that in a mosque?


Damned racist auto-correct.

05 Dec 2012 10:16 AM
t3knomanser     

Coco LaFemme: You're kidding, right? THIS WAS VOLUNTARY. As in, not required.


And where was the voluntary activity for the Jews, Hindus, Muslims, Buddhists, etc? Sure, the Christians get an optional event that they can enjoy, but nobody else gets an option? So one group gets to go have a day-long field trip to a church, to participate in a religious event, while everybody else sits around and does worksheets for the day? And you believe this is fair?

05 Dec 2012 10:16 AM
Nabb1    [TotalFark]  
I was always told that if you don't love baby Jesus, Charlie Brown will kill you in your sleep.

05 Dec 2012 10:17 AM
t3knomanser     

Nabb1: I was always told that if you don't love baby Jesus, Charlie Brown will kill you in your sleep.


I had a cousin that died that way. When they found him, Snoopy was chewing on his entrails.

05 Dec 2012 10:18 AM
Mugato    [TotalFark]  

t3knomanser: Nabb1: I was always told that if you don't love baby Jesus, Charlie Brown will kill you in your sleep.

I had a cousin that died that way. When they found him, Snoopy was chewing on his entrails.


You can only have that football taken away from you so many times before you snap.

05 Dec 2012 10:20 AM
AbbeySomeone     

t3knomanser: Coco LaFemme: You're kidding, right? THIS WAS VOLUNTARY. As in, not required.

And where was the voluntary activity for the Jews, Hindus, Muslims, Buddhists, etc? Sure, the Christians get an optional event that they can enjoy, but nobody else gets an option? So one group gets to go have a day-long field trip to a church, to participate in a religious event, while everybody else sits around and does worksheets for the day? And you believe this is fair?


Oh please. Feeble bullsh*t and weak attempt. Charlie Brown can be enjoyed by anyone without a stick up their ass.
I will give you a generous 7/10.

05 Dec 2012 10:23 AM
Rincewind53    [TotalFark]  

AbbeySomeone: t3knomanser: Coco LaFemme: You're kidding, right? THIS WAS VOLUNTARY. As in, not required.

And where was the voluntary activity for the Jews, Hindus, Muslims, Buddhists, etc? Sure, the Christians get an optional event that they can enjoy, but nobody else gets an option? So one group gets to go have a day-long field trip to a church, to participate in a religious event, while everybody else sits around and does worksheets for the day? And you believe this is fair?

Oh please. Feeble bullsh*t and weak attempt. Charlie Brown can be enjoyed by anyone without a stick up their ass.
I will give you a generous 7/10.


Oh, so government sponsorship of a particular religion is okay as long as it's fun!

/again, I don't think this particular case is egregious, but I think it's okay to err on the side of caution when government sponsorship of religion is at stake. And clearly here some parents were unhappy about sending their children to a church to see an allegorical play about the birth of Jesus.

05 Dec 2012 10:27 AM
SilentStrider    [TotalFark]  
Agnostic here.
A Charlie Brown Christmas is one of the few times where I get to feel like a kid at Christmastime. Given that I'm in my 30's, I cherish this. Because those moments are few and far between.
So if anyone has a problem with Charlie Brown, and my love of it, I say to you this: SCREW YOU.

05 Dec 2012 10:27 AM
R.A.Danny    [TotalFark]  

Rincewind53: Oh, so government sponsorship of a particular religion is okay as long as it's fun!


Down to about 4/10

05 Dec 2012 10:28 AM
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