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   Krugman: "Let's get this straight: America is not facing a fiscal crisis." Well it's not like he's some Nobel-prize-winning economist or something

07 Dec 2012 08:08 PM   |   11754 clicks   |   The New York Times
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FlashHarry    [TotalFark]  
krugman is technically - the best kind of correct!

07 Dec 2012 03:08 PM
kid_icarus     
Yes but fiscal cliff fiscal cliff fiscal cliff. Your argument is invalid.

07 Dec 2012 03:22 PM
Nadie_AZ     
But who will take care of the media when no one will watch them if there isn't anything grabbing you by the throat, joking fear into you?

07 Dec 2012 03:23 PM
MaudlinMutantMollusk    [TotalFark]  
I'd like to cockpunch the next jackass that utters the term "fiscal cliff"

07 Dec 2012 03:25 PM
Elzar     

MaudlinMutantMollusk: I'd like to cockpunch the next jackass that utters the term "fiscal cliff"


img6.imageshack.usView Full Size

07 Dec 2012 04:03 PM
vernonFL    [TotalFark]  
Dr. Krugman: You should keep bacon, smoking cigarettes and drinking moonshine. You're not having a stroke right now.

07 Dec 2012 04:44 PM
thomps     
Yet there is a whole industry built around the promotion of deficit panic. Lavishly funded corporate groups keep hyping the danger of government debt and the urgency of deficit reduction now now now

i don't understand why corporate groups would want to reduce deficit spending. or is it just being lobbied as an alternative to tax increases?

07 Dec 2012 04:48 PM
Elzar     

thomps: Yet there is a whole industry built around the promotion of deficit panic. Lavishly funded corporate groups keep hyping the danger of government debt and the urgency of deficit reduction now now now

i don't understand why corporate groups would want to reduce deficit spending. or is it just being lobbied as an alternative to tax increases?


Because said groups believe less govt spending on safety net entitlements = more money in their pockets, less welfare cadillac queens.

07 Dec 2012 04:52 PM
thomps     

Elzar: thomps: Yet there is a whole industry built around the promotion of deficit panic. Lavishly funded corporate groups keep hyping the danger of government debt and the urgency of deficit reduction now now now

i don't understand why corporate groups would want to reduce deficit spending. or is it just being lobbied as an alternative to tax increases?

Because said groups believe less govt spending on safety net entitlements = more money in their pockets, less welfare cadillac queens.


but that would mean they sell fewer cadillacs and tiaras?

07 Dec 2012 04:54 PM
Marcus Aurelius    [TotalFark]  

thomps: Yet there is a whole industry built around the promotion of deficit panic. Lavishly funded corporate groups keep hyping the danger of government debt and the urgency of deficit reduction now now now

i don't understand why corporate groups would want to reduce deficit spending. or is it just being lobbied as an alternative to tax increases?


My guess is that the billionaires paying a paltry 15% on their capital gains want to keep it that way.

07 Dec 2012 04:55 PM
thomps     

Marcus Aurelius: thomps: Yet there is a whole industry built around the promotion of deficit panic. Lavishly funded corporate groups keep hyping the danger of government debt and the urgency of deficit reduction now now now

i don't understand why corporate groups would want to reduce deficit spending. or is it just being lobbied as an alternative to tax increases?

My guess is that the billionaires paying a paltry 15% on their capital gains want to keep it that way.


yeah, i guess it only really makes sense as a way to change the subject to a lesser-evil. sorry for the threadjack, that just seemed like a really weird sentence to me.

07 Dec 2012 05:01 PM
Lionel Mandrake    [TotalFark]  
He's a commie libtard, therefore his argument is invalid.

/just preempting the FARK "independent" derp brigade.

07 Dec 2012 05:04 PM
Eddie Adams from Torrance    [TotalFark]  

thomps: Elzar: thomps: Yet there is a whole industry built around the promotion of deficit panic. Lavishly funded corporate groups keep hyping the danger of government debt and the urgency of deficit reduction now now now

i don't understand why corporate groups would want to reduce deficit spending. or is it just being lobbied as an alternative to tax increases?

Because said groups believe less govt spending on safety net entitlements = more money in their pockets, less welfare cadillac queens.

but that would mean they sell fewer cadillacs and tiaras?


Profit margins are pretty low on tiaras these days. Better to just keep the cash tucked away in the Caymans.

07 Dec 2012 05:05 PM
dethmagnetic     
Indeed, one recent poll suggests that a large plurality of the public believes that the budget deficit will go up if we go off that cliff.

upload.wikimedia.orgView Full Size

07 Dec 2012 05:26 PM
DamnYankees    [TotalFark]  

FlashHarry: krugman is technically - the best kind of correct!


You messed that up.

07 Dec 2012 06:08 PM
MaudlinMutantMollusk    [TotalFark]  

DamnYankees: FlashHarry: krugman is technically - the best kind of correct!

You messed that up.


Technically

07 Dec 2012 06:12 PM
optikeye    [TotalFark]  
"Economics has increasingly become an intellectual game played for its own sake and not for its practical consequences for understanding the economic world. Economists have converted the subject into a sort of social mathematics in which analytical rigour is everything and practical relevance is nothing." - Geoffrey M. Hodgson, Editor-in-Chief of the Journal of Institutional Economics

"Economics has become increasingly an arcane branch of mathematics rather than dealing with real economic problems." - Milton Friedman near the end of his life

If they had to stand up to real life tests for their mathematically models; they'd be about as accurate as Astrologers.

07 Dec 2012 06:15 PM
GAT_00     
It's easy to get confused about the fiscal thing, since everyone's talking about the "fiscal cliff." Indeed, one recent poll suggests that a large plurality of the public believes that the budget deficit will go up if we go off that cliff.

Technically it would because austerity has been categorically proven to not raise GDP. In every single country it has been implemented, GDP fell. The single best result from austerity is the Baltic countries, which saw GDP return to 90% of pre-crash levels.

So as GDP falls, income falls and the deficit would rise again.

Austerity: 100% proven to not grow GDP.

07 Dec 2012 06:17 PM
BravadoGT    [TotalFark]  
The US is borrowing 45 cents of every dollar it spends. You try doing that and not be in a fiscal crisis.

07 Dec 2012 06:23 PM
thomps     

MaudlinMutantMollusk: DamnYankees: FlashHarry: krugman is technically - the best kind of correct!

You messed that up.

Technically


technically - the best kind of up!

07 Dec 2012 06:34 PM
giftedmadness     

GAT_00: It's easy to get confused about the fiscal thing, since everyone's talking about the "fiscal cliff." Indeed, one recent poll suggests that a large plurality of the public believes that the budget deficit will go up if we go off that cliff.

Technically it would because austerity has been categorically proven to not raise GDP. In every single country it has been implemented, GDP fell. The single best result from austerity is the Baltic countries, which saw GDP return to 90% of pre-crash levels.

So as GDP falls, income falls and the deficit would rise again.

Austerity: 100% proven to not grow GDP.


Who said austerity grows the GDP? Austerity is something you have to do when debt levels become unmanageable.

07 Dec 2012 06:36 PM
thomps     

optikeye: If they had to stand up to real life tests for their mathematically models; they'd be about as accurate as Astrologers.


my god this is a terrible sentence. if i'm interpreting it correctly, it's also the broadest brush you can possibly paint with.

07 Dec 2012 06:37 PM
giftedmadness     

BravadoGT: The US is borrowing 45 cents of every dollar it spends. You try doing that and not be in a fiscal crisis.


Logic on fark? You are unwelcome here.

07 Dec 2012 06:37 PM
thomps     

giftedmadness: GAT_00: It's easy to get confused about the fiscal thing, since everyone's talking about the "fiscal cliff." Indeed, one recent poll suggests that a large plurality of the public believes that the budget deficit will go up if we go off that cliff.

Technically it would because austerity has been categorically proven to not raise GDP. In every single country it has been implemented, GDP fell. The single best result from austerity is the Baltic countries, which saw GDP return to 90% of pre-crash levels.

So as GDP falls, income falls and the deficit would rise again.

Austerity: 100% proven to not grow GDP.

Who said austerity grows the GDP? Austerity is something you have to do when debt levels become unmanageable.


so, since the most useful way to look at debt and deficits is in comparison to gdp, the question becomes: does austerity cause steeper drops in gdp or debt levels?

07 Dec 2012 06:39 PM
revrendjim    [TotalFark]  

BravadoGT: The US is borrowing 45 cents of every dollar it spends. You try doing that and not be in a fiscal crisis.


No problem, as long as I can print my own money to pay it back.

07 Dec 2012 06:44 PM
cameroncrazy1984    [TotalFark]  

giftedmadness: BravadoGT: The US is borrowing 45 cents of every dollar it spends. You try doing that and not be in a fiscal crisis.

Logic on fark? You are unwelcome here.


Well, except that's not logic.

07 Dec 2012 06:47 PM
GAT_00     

giftedmadness: GAT_00: It's easy to get confused about the fiscal thing, since everyone's talking about the "fiscal cliff." Indeed, one recent poll suggests that a large plurality of the public believes that the budget deficit will go up if we go off that cliff.

Technically it would because austerity has been categorically proven to not raise GDP. In every single country it has been implemented, GDP fell. The single best result from austerity is the Baltic countries, which saw GDP return to 90% of pre-crash levels.

So as GDP falls, income falls and the deficit would rise again.

Austerity: 100% proven to not grow GDP.

Who said austerity grows the GDP? Austerity is something you have to do when debt levels become unmanageable.


The whole argument from the Austrian side is that excessive (though I've never seen an Austrian economist look at a level of government spending and declare it not excessive which begs the questions of what is excessive) spending reduces growth. Therefore, it is logical to conclude that austerity will increase growth because there is less government preventing growth.

07 Dec 2012 06:49 PM
Elzar     

BravadoGT: The US is borrowing 45 cents of every dollar it spends. You try doing that and not be in a fiscal crisis.


Actually according to economic expert consensus, the US is borrowing 69.3 cents per every dollar.

/ Technically correct - the best kind of correct.

07 Dec 2012 07:09 PM
thomps     

Elzar: BravadoGT: The US is borrowing 45 cents of every dollar it spends. You try doing that and not be in a fiscal crisis.

Actually according to economic expert consensus, the US is borrowing 69.3 cents per every dollar.

/ Technically correct - the best kind of correct.


and technically the better phrasing is that the US currently makes a dollar every year for every 69.3 cents that it cumulatively owes.

07 Dec 2012 07:11 PM
Pincy     
our government can borrow at incredibly low interest rates - interest rates on inflation-protected U.S. bonds are actually negative, so investors are paying our government to make use of their money.

If this is true (which I'm assuming it is) then wouldn't it be prudent fiscal policy to be borrowing more money?

07 Dec 2012 08:10 PM
vernonFL    [TotalFark]  
He's right that we aren't in a crisis right now - but we will be if we keep it up.

If we don't make some major adjustments, in 20 years we will be farked.

07 Dec 2012 08:12 PM
david_gaithersburg     
www.iamstaggered.comView Full Size

07 Dec 2012 08:12 PM
12349876     
Technically - the best way to get her to give you a blowjob

07 Dec 2012 08:14 PM
Atomic Spunk     
Krugman was alright, but Tony Randall was always my favorite:
i2.listal.comView Full Size

07 Dec 2012 08:14 PM
Omahawg     
here's a novel idea to get the 1% to pay up, put up, or shut up once and for all.

www.culturewars.comView Full Size

07 Dec 2012 08:16 PM
Gyrfalcon    [TotalFark]  
Look, there has to be a fiscal crisis. Otherwise, with the wars winding down, employment going up, and the housing market improving, there'd BE NO OTHER CRISES, and then where would we be???

07 Dec 2012 08:16 PM
Indubitably     
Master K,

*bow*

We are brothers in mind.

We write.

We learn.

We pontificate.

We rewrite.

We realize.

We legalize.

We repay our cognitive debts by stepping peeps up.

We remake power-lifts, i.e. you and me, more specifically, you to me, Sir Krugman, sir.

It's time for you to lift me up...

Thank you.

07 Dec 2012 08:17 PM
67 Beetle     
We're also not in a climate crisis either, but it's best to start addressing these issues sooner rather than later.

07 Dec 2012 08:18 PM
ladyfortuna     
In accounting class today, my prof (who is almost certainly either a Libertarian or Republican, though he's sneaky about keeping it out of the classroom) was making kind of the same points. We were going over what different ratios mean when it comes to debt or assets, and he basically lambasted business for holding everything too close to the chest.

Then he blew it by bringing up the Papa Johns Obamacare surcharge and basically saying that was a legitimate thing, but overall during the semester he has seemed far more moderate on how businesses need to at least spend something to keep growing.

He's an interesting fellow, with more than enough experience to convince me for the most part.

07 Dec 2012 08:18 PM
MFAWG     
TOP men have assured me that the deficit is the biggest drag on our economy. TOP MEN!!!_

07 Dec 2012 08:18 PM
skullkrusher     

Pincy: our government can borrow at incredibly low interest rates - interest rates on inflation-protected U.S. bonds are actually negative, so investors are paying our government to make use of their money.

If this is true (which I'm assuming it is) then wouldn't it be prudent fiscal policy to be borrowing more money?


the government is responsible for adjusting the principal based on inflation. It's not an infinite money making scheme. At the moment people are paying for the privilege because they are betting on inflation. If they're right, the government owes them more money than they originally lent at maturation.

07 Dec 2012 08:18 PM
BravadoGT    [TotalFark]  

thomps: Elzar: BravadoGT: The US is borrowing 45 cents of every dollar it spends. You try doing that and not be in a fiscal crisis.

Actually according to economic expert consensus, the US is borrowing 69.3 cents per every dollar.

/ Technically correct - the best kind of correct.

and technically the better phrasing is that the US currently makes a dollar every year for every 69.3 cents that it cumulatively owes.


That's not correct. The only thing you can deduce from that fact is that out of every dollar spent, the US has 31.7 cents in hand, and borrows the other 69.3 cents. If we made a dollar for every 69.3 cents we'd owed--we'd have a surplus.

07 Dec 2012 08:18 PM
skullkrusher     

Omahawg: here's a novel idea to get the 1% to pay up, put up, or shut up once and for all.

[www.culturewars.com image 519x294]


posting a picture on the internet? Doubtful

07 Dec 2012 08:20 PM
AssAsInAssassin     
BIG DEAL LIBERAL COMMUNIST JEW YORK TIMES! NOBLE PRIZE GIVEN TO FARTBONGO AND YERASSISFAT!!!!!

/Did I do that right?

07 Dec 2012 08:21 PM
Communist_Manifesto     
This is a great book on economics I just read, it was recommended by another farker whom I can't recall at the moment

Link

07 Dec 2012 08:22 PM
I Like Bread     
Is this the thread where libertarians come up with a million theories to explain the entire fiscal history of the world EXCEPT FOR Keynesian economics?

07 Dec 2012 08:22 PM
d23    [TotalFark]  
He doesn't agree with right-wing jebus, so he is a smelly hippie poopie head with smelly feet.

//fark the facts.

07 Dec 2012 08:23 PM
Omahawg     

skullkrusher: Omahawg: here's a novel idea to get the 1% to pay up, put up, or shut up once and for all.

[www.culturewars.com image 519x294]

posting a picture on the internet? Doubtful


meh. the end result of an entitled plutocracy throwing fewer and fewer crumbs to the masses always ends up the same anyway. people can only be pacified with sports, dope, and reality television for so long.

when did you first hear of these things called "gated communities". mid-90s? parts of America where us mere normals couldn't even venture into?

07 Dec 2012 08:25 PM
Amos Quito     
graphics8.nytimes.comView Full Size


stmedia.startribune.comView Full Size



Looks like Ben Bernanke in drag.

07 Dec 2012 08:27 PM
State_College_Arsonist     
Gee, we're only at 100% debt-to-GDP, no problem there. Just keep piling on the debt, we'll spend our way to prosperity.

07 Dec 2012 08:27 PM
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