(full site)
Fark.com

Back To Main
   How the Soviet Union used a spy in FDR's cabinet to engineer the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor

08 Dec 2012 04:48 AM   |   12688 clicks   |   Time
Showing 1-50 of 118 comments
Refresh Page 2
View Comments:
Nadie_AZ    [TotalFark]  
John Koster is the author of the recently-published Operation Snow: How a Soviet Mole in FDR's White House Triggered Pearl Harbor. An Army veteran, he lives in New Jersey.

Ah. A book to sell.

08 Dec 2012 12:40 AM
Apos     
H2 hasn't come calling yet?

08 Dec 2012 02:11 AM
violentsalvation    [TotalFark]  
"A series of skirmishes with the Japanese at Nomonhan in 1939 had revealed serious weaknesses in the Soviet military."

Yes, serious weaknesses that somehow resulted in complete annihilation of the Japanese 6th army.

This revisionist shiat is boring.

08 Dec 2012 02:27 AM
DrowningLessons     

violentsalvation: This revisionist shiat is boring.


And that's a wrap.

08 Dec 2012 03:05 AM
DrPainMD    [TotalFark]  
Most Americans know almost nothing of American history because most Americans go to public school.

08 Dec 2012 03:20 AM
Woolwine     

DrPainMD: Most Americans know almost nothing of American history because most Americans go to public school.


As someone who went to public school, I can attest to this. Most of what I really learned about US History, I learned on my own outside of public school.

08 Dec 2012 04:54 AM
BronyMedic     

DrPainMD: Most Americans know almost nothing of American history because most Americans go to public school.


Something tells me this story is about as legitimate as the theory that the Department of War bribed some radar operator to keep quiet about the masses of Japanese fighters coming at Pearl Harbor.

08 Dec 2012 04:55 AM
robohobo     
mages1.wikia.nocookie.netView Full Size

/but seriously, fdr can eat a bag of dicks
//retroactively cause of the being dead thing

08 Dec 2012 04:58 AM
Jedekai     

Nadie_AZ: John Koster is the author of the recently-published Operation Snow: How a Soviet Mole in FDR's White House Triggered Pearl Harbor. An Army veteran, he lives in New Jersey.

Ah. A book to sell.


No. Sadly, this is common knowledge. He's the guy who said Oppenheimer was a member of the Communist Party and got him effectively blackballed. It was a lie.

The Pearl Harbor story is exaggerated - but it certainly did feed the fire for a pre-emptive attack by the Emperor. Paranoid people sitting in a matchstick throne during a wildfire are seldom acting sanely.

DrPainMD: Most Americans know almost nothing of American history because most Americans go to public school.


I learned about this in public school. Rather poorly, but our teacher made DAMN sure that we didn't just say the Japanese did it because of fear over "Bundles for Britain". He also made us watch "Bataan", "All Quiet On the Western Front" and "The Longest Day". In the same semester, and about half of us were enthralled. The other half slept.

When the final for the semester appeared and it was exclusively on the movies... people shat their pants.

/If I were a History teacher and someone asked about the Pacific Offensive I'd tell them the plain truth: "There were two groups of men fighting for home; the Imperial Marines (Japanese) out of paranoia-fueled fear and the U.S. Marines out of fear-fueled paranoia. The difference is that we lost our fear and it only made theirs worse."

08 Dec 2012 05:08 AM
wademh    [TotalFark]  

DrPainMD: Most Americans know almost nothing of American history because most Americans go to public school.


Quite. Not like those homeschooled kids who are taught about how Jesus rode dinosaurs to deliver the flag to Betsy and told her about how we are God's chosen people.

08 Dec 2012 05:10 AM
Mitch Mitchell     
John Koster is an anagram of J.K. n. Rooster.

08 Dec 2012 05:25 AM
Gyrfalcon     
Since the Japanese weren't looking west any time soon, and didn't have any real plans to fight the Soviets--particularly since the only place they would have been looking at, the Kamchatka Peninsula, was mostly cut off from Russia by Manchuria anyway, which Japan already held in 1941--IF this is true then it only shows how paranoid and spectacularly stupid Stalin was when it came to foreign policy.

Japan was moving east and south in 1941. They might have wanted to nibble on Russia eventually--they considered it for a while after WWI--but probably not. They had plenty of what seemed to them good reasons to fight the US and attack Pearl Harbor; which eventually backfired. The idea that Stalin engineered the whole thing to keep the Japanese busy in the Pacific because he was scared of a two-front war kind of ignores the basic facts that in 1941, there was no danger of a two-front war for Russia. Japan was still bogged down in China. What Stalin needed was for the US to enter the EUROPEAN war, and quickly, to beat Hitler, and then Stalin could have whipped Japan all on his own.

This sounds like the idea of somebody who's swallowed the whole Great Patriotic War revision hook, line and sinker and is looking for ways to justify the theory that Stalin was the prime mover of WWII. Next we'll be reading a book about how Finland provoked Russia during the Finnish Offensive War against Mother Russia by allying with Italy in a sneak move to force Norway to declare war on the USSR.

08 Dec 2012 05:26 AM
fredbox     
I went to public school, and learned a very great deal about how oppressed public employee union members are by administrators.

At least, getting the teacher to talk about the union squabble of the week was easier than actually doing work and studying class material.

08 Dec 2012 05:40 AM
ginandbacon    [TotalFark]  
Wow. Remind me never to click on a TIME link again.

08 Dec 2012 05:45 AM
Jedekai     

wademh: DrPainMD: Most Americans know almost nothing of American history because most Americans go to public school.

Quite. Not like those homeschooled kids who are taught about how Jesus rode dinosaurs to deliver the flag to Betsy and told her about how we are God's chosen people.


Homeschooled until 8th Grade. After I was eight years old, my mother gave up.

I was devouring collegiate Biology books and English texts by then.

/Burnt-out child prodigy. "Could've cured cancer... decided to steal cable." might as well be my motto...

08 Dec 2012 05:46 AM
doglover    [TotalFark]  

Jedekai: If I were a History teacher and someone asked about the Pacific Offensive I'd tell them the plain truth: "There were two groups of men fighting for home; the Imperial Marines (Japanese) out of paranoia-fueled fear and the U.S. Marines out of fear-fueled paranoia. The difference is that we lost our fear and it only made theirs worse."


Not quite true. The Japanese and Americans in the shiat were pretty much just like any other group of young men in war time.

America's concentration camps are something I'd like to see in more textbooks. People talk about Germany like they were special in that. They weren't. It's the Eugenics that made the Nazis remarkably. Subjugating an entire group of people for no reason but their heritage was very much something we did as well. It was in fashion at the time.

George Takei has some wonderful insight into this. Well worth finding an interview with him,

08 Dec 2012 05:49 AM
doglover    [TotalFark]  
Remarkable, even. Thanks auto-correct.

08 Dec 2012 05:50 AM
Alonjar     

doglover: Jedekai: If I were a History teacher and someone asked about the Pacific Offensive I'd tell them the plain truth: "There were two groups of men fighting for home; the Imperial Marines (Japanese) out of paranoia-fueled fear and the U.S. Marines out of fear-fueled paranoia. The difference is that we lost our fear and it only made theirs worse."

Not quite true. The Japanese and Americans in the shiat were pretty much just like any other group of young men in war time.

America's concentration camps are something I'd like to see in more textbooks. People talk about Germany like they were special in that. They weren't. It's the Eugenics that made the Nazis remarkably. Subjugating an entire group of people for no reason but their heritage was very much something we did as well. It was in fashion at the time.

George Takei has some wonderful insight into this. Well worth finding an interview with him,


I think the starvation/genocide part may have helped set the Axis powers apart as well.... or did we perform forced death marches during WWII as well?

08 Dec 2012 06:17 AM
profplump     

Jedekai: Homeschooled until 8th Grade. After I was eight years old, my mother gave up.


Almost any child of typical intelligence could learn all of the actual facts and skills taught in primary school over the course of 2-3 years. That we spend a decade on the project is related much more to the way our society treats children and organizes schools than to any limitations of the typical student.

/ Not saying your weren't smart, just whinging about how we waste children's lives

08 Dec 2012 06:22 AM
narkor     
Iraq WMDs
Babies being thrown out of incubators in Kuwait
The "attack" in the Gulf of Tonkin

It's not exactly as though the US has to be sold a good story before it goes charging off into war.

08 Dec 2012 06:23 AM
reverend maynard     

violentsalvation: "A series of skirmishes with the Japanese at Nomonhan in 1939 had revealed serious weaknesses in the Soviet military."

Yes, serious weaknesses that somehow resulted in complete annihilation of the Japanese 6th army.

This revisionist shiat is boring.


Point taken, but I don't know I still think it's kind of interesting. I don't have the exact figures off the top of my head, but Stalin was able to divert a lot of his most seasoned soilders from Siberia once he knew Japan and the US were going to duke it out. This certainly proved effective in helping to end Hitlers Barbarossa campaign and start Stalin's counter attack.
How big of a role did HDW really play? I don't know, but (and this is where I think it gets interesting) if he did, how could the outcome of WW2 been affected had the Soviet Union been neutralized?

08 Dec 2012 06:39 AM
OscarTamerz     
Interesting theory but where is the time machine because Japan had already invaded Korea and China 40 years earlier? Everything else was already invaded by Europeans, France in Vietnam, UK in Hong Kong, Portugal in Macau etc. They also had kicked ass in a war with Russia that Teddy Roosevelt got a Nobel peace prize for helping to broker a peace treaty for back before it was enough to just be a democrat liberturd dickhead like Bore, Farter and Hobama.

Their attacks across East Asia were something they were always going to do from Siberia to Hong Kong to Vietnam, Thailand and Singapore and took place 2 years after WW2 started and the colonial powers were either subjugated by Germany, like France and the Netherlands, or fully engaged in defending themselves, like the UK and the USSR, leaving everything undefended and easy pickings. In truth nothing could have deterred them.

08 Dec 2012 06:42 AM
KrispyKritter     

Woolwine: DrPainMD: Most Americans know almost nothing of American history because most Americans go to public school.

As someone who went to public school, I can attest to this. Most of what I really learned about US History, I learned on my own outside of public school.


i disagree with your statement and the agreement response post. i was lucky enough to receive a NJ public school education and i'm grateful for that. History was taught in NJ schools. we're good that way. also thankful my Mom cared enough to expose me to a wide variety of cultural activities. part of the blessing of growing up in NJ is being minutes away from all that NYC has to offer (thank you God!). i too happened to be an avid reader and took advantage of the excellent NJ Library system. you'd be surprised what i've learned, wink wink nudge nudge know what i mean?

/yes, i go

08 Dec 2012 06:42 AM
I'm just asking questions     
"A series of skirmishes with the Japanese at Nomonhan in 1939 had revealed serious weaknesses in the Soviet military."

Dying is the only way / for you to float free: / Nomonhan

08 Dec 2012 06:46 AM
doglover    [TotalFark]  

Alonjar: doglover: Jedekai: If I were a History teacher and someone asked about the Pacific Offensive I'd tell them the plain truth: "There were two groups of men fighting for home; the Imperial Marines (Japanese) out of paranoia-fueled fear and the U.S. Marines out of fear-fueled paranoia. The difference is that we lost our fear and it only made theirs worse."

Not quite true. The Japanese and Americans in the shiat were pretty much just like any other group of young men in war time.

America's concentration camps are something I'd like to see in more textbooks. People talk about Germany like they were special in that. They weren't. It's the Eugenics that made the Nazis remarkably. Subjugating an entire group of people for no reason but their heritage was very much something we did as well. It was in fashion at the time.

George Takei has some wonderful insight into this. Well worth finding an interview with him,

I think the starvation/genocide part may have helped set the Axis powers apart as well.... or did we perform forced death marches during WWII as well?


We only killed 100,000's of people with two of the most evil weapons even deployed and used loyal American youths of Japanese heritage as a unit of expendables in Germany. As for the starvation, that was endemic to the Western front. For every prisoner who starved, at least two Russians did, too. As for the industrial genocide, if only there was a word for that. Oh wait, there is: Euginics, which I already mentioned in my original post.

We also treated the blacks a little less than kindly as well, back then. And in Japan, forieners = people is also kind of a newer idea. They discovered human rights about when we discovered civil ones.

Always remeber your shiat don't smell any better just because someone else's smells worse. It would be far better to teach kids the real history of the world wars rather than the us vs them narrative which not only leaves out the best parts and people from the other side but also fails to address the larger issue of how to prevent such a large cluster fark from ever happening again. It was a bad time.

08 Dec 2012 06:48 AM
kendelrio     

Jedekai: Nadie_AZ: John Koster is the author of the recently-published Operation Snow: How a Soviet Mole in FDR's White House Triggered Pearl Harbor. An Army veteran, he lives in New Jersey.

Ah. A book to sell.

No. Sadly, this is common knowledge. He's the guy who said Oppenheimer was a member of the Communist Party and got him effectively blackballed. It was a lie.

The Pearl Harbor story is exaggerated - but it certainly did feed the fire for a pre-emptive attack by the Emperor. Paranoid people sitting in a matchstick throne during a wildfire are seldom acting sanely.

DrPainMD: Most Americans know almost nothing of American history because most Americans go to public school.

I learned about this in public school. Rather poorly, but our teacher made DAMN sure that we didn't just say the Japanese did it because of fear over "Bundles for Britain". He also made us watch "Bataan", "All Quiet On the Western Front" and "The Longest Day". In the same semester, and about half of us were enthralled. The other half slept.

When the final for the semester appeared and it was exclusively on the movies... people shat their pants.

/If I were a History teacher and someone asked about the Pacific Offensive I'd tell them the plain truth: "There were two groups of men fighting for home; the Imperial Marines (Japanese) out of paranoia-fueled fear and the U.S. Marines out of fear-fueled paranoia. The difference is that we lost our fear and it only made theirs worse."


I think your slashie is quite possible the awesomest thing I've read in a LONG time!!!

08 Dec 2012 07:08 AM
gibbon1     

Jedekai: The Pearl Harbor story is exaggerated - but it certainly did feed the fire for a pre-emptive attack by the Emperor. Paranoid people sitting in a matchstick throne during a wildfire are seldom acting sanely.


One of the things I've read here and there was Japan wasn't really under a unified rule, different branches of the government pursued their own agendas in competition with each other. I'm sure a number of officials knew that was with the US was a bad idea to be avoided, but in the political posturing they weren't going to be listened too, nor press their case too hard.

And like Germany, most of Japans military experience was sh't kicking around weaker neighboring states. So their experience didn't prepared them for the hammering they were going to get when they finally psyched themselves up to go after an enemy with deep pockets. The US industrially likely represented 30% of world GDP, with the ability to ratchet up to 50%. The Soviet union had large industrial resources and men. Britain was an industrial power equal to Germany with a lot more chips to cash in. So Battle of Britain, failed. Japans rampage in the far east. stalled out after six months. German offensive against the Soviet Union, stalled out after 18 months.

08 Dec 2012 07:14 AM
elchupacabra     
Yeah, I'm siding with the "Citation Needed" crowd here.

However, if this were true, then it would be something to tell the "Russia won WWII, not the US" crowd for sure.

08 Dec 2012 07:20 AM
tirob     
The Japanese wouldn't have invaded the eastern USSR in the fall of 1941. Too cold there then to use 1940s era war machinery. Stalin knew this, which is why he started transfering divisions of soldiers from Siberia to the German front beginning in the early fall of that year.

Kinda takes the pilings out from under the whole theory, doesn't it? I wouldn't doubt that Harry Dexter White, who was a Soviet agent, would have tried to use his influence to drive a wedge between the US and Japan just then. But the Hull note--the "demand" of November 1941 that is referred to in TFA--didn't come from the *Treasury Department,* where White worked, but from the *State Department.* Nobody at State was taking orders from White or even from his boss, Henry Morgenthau. I'd also take Vitaly Pavlov's memoirs with a grain of salt; spies, especially ambitious ones, like to take credit for great coups.

violentsalvation: "A series of skirmishes with the Japanese at Nomonhan in 1939 had revealed serious weaknesses in the Soviet military."

Yes, serious weaknesses that somehow resulted in complete annihilation of the Japanese 6th army.

This revisionist shiat is boring.


Nomonhan and the consequent Nazi-Soviet Pact were the events that prompted Tokyo to start looking south when it came to expansion. After France fell, the Japanese occupied Tonkin (July 1940), successfully pressed the British to close the Burma Road supply route to China (done in July 1940; the British reopened the road in October 1940 after successfully fending off the German air assault on their island), and occupied southern Indochina (July 1941), whence they began putting pressure on the Dutch colonial authorities in what is now Indonesia to sell more oil to them. The Dutch declined to do so; this decision was a huge disappointment for the Japanese military and was a major factor in prompting Tokyo's preparations to strike in the Pacific a few months later.

Judging from the Japanese military's performance from 1942-44, there appears to have been enough petroleum in the Dutch East Indies alone to fuel the Japanese war machine. I always wonder what the US response would have been if Tokyo had bypassed Hawaii and the Philippines and had confined its attacks of December 7-8 1941 to British and Dutch-held territory (Malaya, Hong Kong, Borneo, Sumatra, Java, etc.). Would we have gotten involved? I suspect we would have, but somewhat reluctantly.

08 Dec 2012 07:28 AM
Esn     

elchupacabra: Yeah, I'm siding with the "Citation Needed" crowd here.

However, if this were true, then it would be something to tell the "Russia won WWII, not the US" crowd for sure.


The citation is a 1996 Russian memoir, it's mentioned in the article.

And the crowd you're talking about will just say that the Russians outsmarted the Americans, which is why they won WW2 (also they paid far more dearly and were first in Berlin, but anyway).

08 Dec 2012 07:29 AM
Kittypie070     
[angrily leaves a puddle of pee in here]

08 Dec 2012 07:35 AM
Teresaol31     

doglover: Jedekai: If I were a History teacher and someone asked about the Pacific Offensive I'd tell them the plain truth: "There were two groups of men fighting for home; the Imperial Marines (Japanese) out of paranoia-fueled fear and the U.S. Marines out of fear-fueled paranoia. The difference is that we lost our fear and it only made theirs worse."

Not quite true. The Japanese and Americans in the shiat were pretty much just like any other group of young men in war time.

America's concentration camps are something I'd like to see in more textbooks. People talk about Germany like they were special in that. They weren't. It's the Eugenics that made the Nazis remarkably. Subjugating an entire group of people for no reason but their heritage was very much something we did as well. It was in fashion at the time.

George Takei has some wonderful insight into this. Well worth finding an interview with him,



I'm actually doing my thesis on the camps in Arkansas (there were two, one of which house George Takei and his family) and as part of an area oral history project, I've spent hours interviewing elderly people in McGhee and Star City, which are in the same county as the camps were located...the overall feel of the interviews is "we weren't sure who was there or why but we were happy for the jobs that the camps brought to town." Seriously. The camps were in rural areas where people did not question their obligation to do what the government wanted without question.

It makes me sick that the average college level survey course on U.S. History gives only a half page to something so important. It reeks of white washed denial that we do not want to mention that the residents of California, Oregon, and Washington basically conspired with the Federal government to steal the real estate from 150k legal residents and imprison them for no reason other than being Japanese. Then to add insult to injury the "official" apology and restitution did not happen until the Reagan administration, and then involved a pat on the head and a whopping $20k per check. What do you think having your entire life stolen and then being shipped to some hell hole camp for three or four years only to be released and told to go back to life as usual, with no assistance to regain what you lost would do you to you? The survivors of the camps have shown amazing resilience all things considered.

08 Dec 2012 07:43 AM
HindiDiscoMonster    [TotalFark]  

wademh: DrPainMD: Most Americans know almost nothing of American history because most Americans go to public school.

Quite. Not like those homeschooled kids who are taught about how Jesus rode dinosaurs to deliver the flag to Betsy and told her about how we are God's chosen people.


i.chzbgr.comView Full Size

08 Dec 2012 07:44 AM
rico567     
Read the article- five minutes I'll never get back. Just another example of the "For want of a nail-" fallacy. Belongs in the Fantasy section of the library, but at least it will serve the purpose of providing a bibliographic entry for hundreds of doctoral dissertations in the coming years.

08 Dec 2012 07:51 AM
rico567     

Woolwine: DrPainMD: Most Americans know almost nothing of American history because most Americans go to public school.

As someone who went to public school, I can attest to this. Most of what I really learned about US History, I learned on my own outside of public school.


Taught U.S. History in public school for 32 years. First thing my students learned:

"That's History- not what happened, but what people make themselves believe must have happened."

- Alistair Cooke

08 Dec 2012 07:53 AM
Milo Minderbinder     
Treasury official /= Cabinet member.

08 Dec 2012 07:57 AM
some_beer_drinker    [TotalFark]  

Mitch Mitchell: John Koster is an anagram of J.K. n. Rooster.


probably the most useful post in this whole thread

08 Dec 2012 08:05 AM
some_beer_drinker    [TotalFark]  

Kittypie070: [angrily leaves a puddle of pee in here]


frankly, im surprised i don't see this more often on fark.

08 Dec 2012 08:09 AM
Jarhead_h     
How convienient, these were both on LRC this morning:

FDR Got His Evil Wish 71 Years Ago (DC was engaging in acts of war well in advance of Pearl)
http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw /archives/127902.html

A Brit Propagandist and the Japanese Attack on Pearl Harbor
http://lewrockwell.com/orig13/rossini 7.1.1.html

/really sick of this being called a "good" war when it was just DC getting our people killed and burning our wealth for the bennefit of the farking crown.

08 Dec 2012 08:34 AM
Evil Twin Skippy     
What is the threshold after which the grain of salt I take this with becomes a boulder?

08 Dec 2012 08:34 AM
OtherLittleGuy    [TotalFark]  
Best episode of DS9.

08 Dec 2012 08:57 AM
Mouser     

Gyrfalcon: Since the Japanese weren't looking west any time soon, and didn't have any real plans to fight the Soviets--particularly since the only place they would have been looking at, the Kamchatka Peninsula, was mostly cut off from Russia by Manchuria anyway, which Japan already held in 1941--IF this is true then it only shows how paranoid and spectacularly stupid Stalin was when it came to foreign policy.

Japan was moving east and south in 1941. They might have wanted to nibble on Russia eventually--they considered it for a while after WWI--but probably not. They had plenty of what seemed to them good reasons to fight the US and attack Pearl Harbor; which eventually backfired. The idea that Stalin engineered the whole thing to keep the Japanese busy in the Pacific because he was scared of a two-front war kind of ignores the basic facts that in 1941, there was no danger of a two-front war for Russia. Japan was still bogged down in China. What Stalin needed was for the US to enter the EUROPEAN war, and quickly, to beat Hitler, and then Stalin could have whipped Japan all on his own.

This sounds like the idea of somebody who's swallowed the whole Great Patriotic War revision hook, line and sinker and is looking for ways to justify the theory that Stalin was the prime mover of WWII. Next we'll be reading a book about how Finland provoked Russia during the Finnish Offensive War against Mother Russia by allying with Italy in a sneak move to force Norway to declare war on the USSR.


Well, what did you expect from a bunch of commies who pretend FDR wasn't best buds with Uncle Joe Stalin?

08 Dec 2012 09:10 AM
LZeitgeist     

some_beer_drinker: Mitch Mitchell: John Koster is an anagram of J.K. n. Rooster.

probably the most useful post in this whole thread


And it's not even correct - too many 'R's, and where'd the 'H' go?

/pointless

08 Dec 2012 09:26 AM
tirob     

Jarhead_h: How convienient, these were both on LRC this morning:

FDR Got His Evil Wish 71 Years Ago (DC was engaging in acts of war well in advance of Pearl)
http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw /archives/127902.html

A Brit Propagandist and the Japanese Attack on Pearl Harbor
http://lewrockwell.com/orig13/rossini 7.1.1.html

/really sick of this being called a "good" war when it was just DC getting our people killed and burning our wealth for the bennefit of the farking crown.


This book may interest you.

I don't buy the author's main theory--that London may have known about the eastward movement of Kido Butai but that it withheld the information from Washington--but I concur with his assessment of Douglas MacArthur's monumental botch in the Philippines, and I suspect that MacArthur was influenced to act as he did because he was more loyal to Philippine President Manuel Quezon, who may have hoped that the Japanese would bypass the Philippines notwithstanding the attack on Hawaii, than he was to the Administration in Washington.

08 Dec 2012 09:28 AM
Red Shirt Blues    [TotalFark]  

some_beer_drinker: Mitch Mitchell: John Koster is an anagram of J.K. n. Rooster.

probably the most useful post in this whole thread


Yep

08 Dec 2012 09:32 AM
badhatharry    [TotalFark]  
And probably saved the world.

08 Dec 2012 09:38 AM
Red Shirt Blues    [TotalFark]  

Jarhead_h: How convienient, these were both on LRC this morning:

FDR Got His Evil Wish 71 Years Ago (DC was engaging in acts of war well in advance of Pearl)
http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw /archives/127902.html

A Brit Propagandist and the Japanese Attack on Pearl Harbor
http://lewrockwell.com/orig13/rossini 7.1.1.html

/really sick of this being called a "good" war when it was just DC getting our people killed and burning our wealth for the bennefit of the farking crown.


I'm sick of idiots who never really studied history believing what lew rockwell pens.

08 Dec 2012 09:41 AM
leevis     

Teresaol31: It makes me sick that the average college level survey course on U.S. History gives only a half page to something so important.


You don't need more than a couple paragraphs to get the point across that it was a dick move. If the Japanese on the west coast hadn't been locked up they still wouldn't have been a threat. It's kind of hard to carry out sabotage when you don't blend in and everybody is watching you.

08 Dec 2012 09:43 AM
leevis     

violentsalvation: "A series of skirmishes with the Japanese at Nomonhan in 1939 had revealed serious weaknesses in the Soviet military."

Yes, serious weaknesses that somehow resulted in complete annihilation of the Japanese 6th army.

This revisionist shiat is boring.


They won through sheer numbers. They were still incompetent, just look at how they did in Finland. This was a war of armor and the soviets had way more tanks than the japanese.

08 Dec 2012 09:47 AM
UNAUTHORIZED FINGER     
"All history is gossip."

-Harold Conrad

08 Dec 2012 10:02 AM
Showing 1-50 of 118 comments
Refresh Page 2
View Comments:
This thread is closed to new comments.


Back To Main

More Headlines:
Main | Sports | Business | Geek | Entertainment | Politics | Video | FarkUs | Contests | Fark Party | Combined