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   As hybrids and increasingly fuel-efficient cars make it nearly impossible to finance road maintenance via gas tax, Washington State considers imposing per-mile driving tax. Your odometer reading, please

08 Dec 2012 03:11 AM   |   4443 clicks   |   Komo
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RedPhoenix122    [TotalFark]  
So, people who cause more wear and tear on the roads have to pay more to maintain them? Can we also adjust it to be based on vehicle weight?

08 Dec 2012 02:38 AM
Xyphoid     
As an Oklahoma resident, I approve of this 100%. Also, yes let's please make it based on weight.

/just about every vehicle here is a giant 6 wheeled truck that can't drive worth a damn

08 Dec 2012 03:16 AM
Jedekai     
Reasons Montana Rules #6598543:

Hybrids pay MORE in vehicular tax per year.

/Enjoy your toxic chemicals, and the fact that your vehicle is more damaging to the environment than the oil you won't use!

08 Dec 2012 03:17 AM
Sergeant Grumbles     
Oh for fark's sake, just raise the farking gas tax. Base it on revenue produced by hybrids to start with, putting pressure on everyone else to get rid of their gas guzzlers. It's a much better alternative than letting the government track mileage.

08 Dec 2012 03:17 AM
detritus     
So, people who cause more wear and tear on the roads have to pay more to maintain them? Can we also adjust it to be based on vehicle weight?

If this hits Mississippi, there's going to be a record surplus.

08 Dec 2012 03:18 AM
highwayrun     
That's the way to boost revenue: encourage people to stay home and not go anywhere

08 Dec 2012 03:18 AM
lordargent     
highwayrun: That's the way to boost revenue: encourage people to stay home and not go anywhere

If more people stayed home, I would go out more often.

// ever since black Friday, I've had to take an alternate route home because my preferred route goes by a major mall and the freeway there is always backed up around the holiday time. I see some WFH remote desktop sessions in my future.

08 Dec 2012 03:21 AM
VRaptor117     

RedPhoenix122: So, people who cause more wear and tear on the roads have to pay more to maintain them? Can we also adjust it to be based on vehicle weight?


Fark headline in 2018: "As composite and increasingly lightweight cars make it nearly impossible to finance road maintenance via vehicle weight tax, Washington State considers imposing a per trip tax. Your number of engine starts this month, please."

08 Dec 2012 03:23 AM
robohobo     
Sure, track mileage. Then enforce gps devices so the gov can know just where you're using those miles, Why not personal gps chips for the times when you're not driving? For your safety and tax purposes, of course.

Fark off.

08 Dec 2012 03:24 AM
Twilight Farkle    [TotalFark]  
The real problem is that an odometer doesn't know whether you're driving in state or out of state. If it's a state tax, it can't be charged on miles driven out-of-state. And that means that if it passes, your state will require your vehicle to have a GPS logger on it.

Oregon, 2003
California, 2005
Oregon, 2008
Oregon, again, 2009
Three Guesses What State, and Any Guesses That Aren't Oregon Don't Count, 2012.

Dear Oregon, fark you. Dear neighboring states to Oregon, just give whatever lobbyist is in Oregon a lump sum of cash to STFU and retire. All I want is the ability to go out for a nice morning drive in something that predates the motor law.

08 Dec 2012 03:26 AM
fredbox     

robohobo: Sure, track mileage. Then enforce gps devices so the gov can know just where you're using those miles, Why not personal gps chips for the times when you're not driving? For your safety and tax purposes, of course.

Fark off.


For the children! War on terra!

Yes, the intent is absolutely to track movements. Protip: Many traffic cams already have license plate and facial recognition ability on the back end. Now pick up that can, citizen.

08 Dec 2012 03:26 AM
Summoner101     

VRaptor117: RedPhoenix122: So, people who cause more wear and tear on the roads have to pay more to maintain them? Can we also adjust it to be based on vehicle weight?

Fark headline in 2018: "As composite and increasingly lightweight cars make it nearly impossible to finance road maintenance via vehicle weight tax, Washington State considers imposing a per trip tax. Your number of engine starts this month, please."


If cars weigh less wouldn't there be less need for road maintenance?

08 Dec 2012 03:27 AM
Fart_Machine     

RedPhoenix122: So, people who cause more wear and tear on the roads have to pay more to maintain them? Can we also adjust it to be based on vehicle weight?


They already do. Or at least vehicles that weigh over 55K and travel over 5,000 miles during the tax period.

08 Dec 2012 03:29 AM
fugeeface     
Oh, I know, how about the state stop spending a huge portion of gas taxes on EVERYTHING but roads. I'm looking at you, Califarkia.

/grrrrrrrrrrrr

08 Dec 2012 03:31 AM
alienated     
Why not simply make sure that the DOT has the budget that it needs to maintain things ? The gas tax bs is just that- bs. I welcome alternative energy vehicles as I see the big picture, not a small section of a large painting. Unlike many who will no doubt follow, commentwise.

08 Dec 2012 03:32 AM
Aquapope     
Haven't read article or thread, but, wouldn't this be illegal since the State can't determine where the driving occurred? State roads shouldn't benefit from county/city/out-of-state usage if usage is the rationale for taxing. So that means turnpikes at every political border, or this is an undeveloped (dumb) idea?

08 Dec 2012 03:34 AM
Eps05     

RedPhoenix122: So, people who cause more wear and tear on the roads have to pay more to maintain them? Can we also adjust it to be based on vehicle weight?


Commercial vehicle tax rates

Also plates and licenses for large trucks are typically much more expensive than personal cars - typically in the low thousands per year per vehicle.

08 Dec 2012 03:35 AM
Tumunga     
Just have Obama borrow more money from China. Hell, just lease the roads to China, and let them maintain them. They seem to be pretty good at that kind of shiat, well, at least when they were building our railroads.

08 Dec 2012 03:38 AM
The_Sponge    [TotalFark]  
Speaking as a Washington resident who averages only 12,000 miles per year:

How about no? Does no work for you?

08 Dec 2012 03:39 AM
Eps05     

Aquapope: Haven't read article or thread, but, wouldn't this be illegal since the State can't determine where the driving occurred? State roads shouldn't benefit from county/city/out-of-state usage if usage is the rationale for taxing. So that means turnpikes at every political border, or this is an undeveloped (dumb) idea?


People would just register their vehicles out of state. Some people already do it. States could say that the vast majority of people drive in-state, and add expensive bureaucracy where you submit forms explaining how much mileage you do out of state (because that's obviously the solution).

Adding GPS trackers would be useless. They already have trouble keeping track of people on probation with trackers.

08 Dec 2012 03:39 AM
Dinjiin     

lordargent: If more people stayed home, I would go out more often.


I loved it when gas was over $5.50 gallon during a panic a few years ago. No hoodlum teens at the malls or movie theaters, ample parking day and night, fewer traffic jams. It was worth every extra penny at the pump.


VRaptor117: As composite and increasingly lightweight cars make it nearly impossible to finance road maintenance via vehicle weight tax...


Lighter vehicles cause less wear and tear to roadways. In theory, the state would have to perform less maintenance if everyone drove lighter cars. They'd still be farked regarding the funding of capacity expansion, but you can fund that via tolls.

Besides, there is only so much weight than can be shaved from a vehicle without resorting to very expensive exotic materials. Most of the cutting edge alloys that automakers are currently eying shave only about 20% off the weight. Unless there is some unforeseen drop in the cost of manufacturing non-brittle composites, they're not going to be cost effective anytime soon.

08 Dec 2012 03:40 AM
AssAsInAssassin     

lordargent: If more people stayed home, I would go out more often.


Nobody goes there anymore because it's too crowded.

08 Dec 2012 03:40 AM
Fart_Machine     

Eps05: RedPhoenix122: So, people who cause more wear and tear on the roads have to pay more to maintain them? Can we also adjust it to be based on vehicle weight?

Commercial vehicle tax rates

Also plates and licenses for large trucks are typically much more expensive than personal cars - typically in the low thousands per year per vehicle.


Thanks, that's what I was thinking of.

08 Dec 2012 03:40 AM
I should be in the kitchen     
Hybrids and fuel-efficient traditional cars no longer generating enough gas tax revenue? Tack on some sort of additional surcharge for vehicles that get below (x) MPG. Allow exemptions if they can prove "look I NEED this big-ass gas guzzler for my contractor (or whatever) job. Otherwise, you don't NEED that big-ass truck. You can certainly buy one, but don't expect any sympathy when you biatch and moan about the cost of fueling the damn thing. I have friends like that; they had a kid--ONE KID- and immediately bought the biggest SUV they could. SUVs whose tires will never taste dirt. And they complain every time they fuel up. And i bite my tongue and roll my eyes.

08 Dec 2012 03:40 AM
Gdalescrboz     
RedPhoenix122

So, people who cause more wear and tear on the roads have to pay more to maintain them? Can we also adjust it to be based on vehicle weight?

I typed up a paragraph explaining how much of a typical liberal assclown you are but I decided to just call you a farking idiot.

08 Dec 2012 03:43 AM
Corvus     

Jedekai: Reasons Montana Rules #6598543:

Hybrids pay MORE in vehicular tax per year.

/Enjoy your toxic chemicals, and the fact that your vehicle is more damaging to the environment than the oil you won't use!


[citation please]

Is that the bs report that pretends people get rid of their Prius in three years and the battery is not recycled? I hope not.

08 Dec 2012 03:44 AM
VRaptor117     

Summoner101: VRaptor117: RedPhoenix122: So, people who cause more wear and tear on the roads have to pay more to maintain them? Can we also adjust it to be based on vehicle weight?

Fark headline in 2018: "As composite and increasingly lightweight cars make it nearly impossible to finance road maintenance via vehicle weight tax, Washington State considers imposing a per trip tax. Your number of engine starts this month, please."

If cars weigh less wouldn't there be less need for road maintenance?


My point was that the government is going to get the money it wants, any way it can. If roads became cheaper to maintain, you think taxes would go down? No, the money would just be redistributed somewhere else.

08 Dec 2012 03:45 AM
Oznog     

Sergeant Grumbles: Oh for fark's sake, just raise the farking gas tax. Base it on revenue produced by hybrids to start with, putting pressure on everyone else to get rid of their gas guzzlers. It's a much better alternative than letting the government track mileage.


Yep. We want to incentivize better mpg. Going with mileage instead of gas used goes against that.

And I'm really not buying the "blame hybrid cars" theory as the real problem here. Still plenty of gas-guzzlers on the road.

Raising gas tax is a thing, though. Washington is already $0.559/gal, one of the highest in the country. Across the state line it's $0.434. A lot of people drive over the state line to save $0.125/gal, or just buy their gas out-of-state when they're driving across anyways. If it went up more in Washington and not Idaho, that problem would increase.

You end up with weird things like few or no gas stations within a number of miles from the border of the cheaper state- they can't compete and go out of business. On the other side, they do business hand over fist right on the border.

08 Dec 2012 03:45 AM
KickahaOta     
I'm a Washington electric vehicle owner, and I'm getting a somewhat bemused kick out of these replies.

/They give us a sales tax exemption to get us to buy the things
//Then they complain that we don't pay gas tax
///whirrrrrrrrr

08 Dec 2012 03:46 AM
TheBigJerk     

Corvus: Jedekai: Reasons Montana Rules #6598543:

Hybrids pay MORE in vehicular tax per year.

/Enjoy your toxic chemicals, and the fact that your vehicle is more damaging to the environment than the oil you won't use!

[citation please]

Is that the bs report that pretends people get rid of their Prius in three years and the battery is not recycled? I hope not.


Probably includes the snopes-debunked "hybrid batteries are soooooper toxic!" fw: Fw: fw:


As for TFA, considering how people already fark with odometer readings I'm not sure how well that cunning plan would work.

08 Dec 2012 03:50 AM
Flying Code Monkey     
Heh. These days I mostly use the hybrid to drive to/from the park-and-ride lot, so pay-by-mile wouldn't touch me either.

/ha
//ha

08 Dec 2012 03:51 AM
Juansmith     
Yeah, no.

08 Dec 2012 03:52 AM
borg    [TotalFark]  
California has been talking about this for a couple of years but now with the Democratic supermajority you can bet it's a done deal. It's not a tax it's a usage fee.

08 Dec 2012 03:52 AM
Nutsac_Jim     

Xyphoid: As an Oklahoma resident, I approve of this 100%. Also, yes let's please make it based on weight.

/just about every vehicle here is a giant 6 wheeled truck that can't drive worth a damn


And we dont think that the weight thingy is taken care of via the gas tax?

08 Dec 2012 03:52 AM
RandyMarsh     
They should put up a toll at the Idaho border. They cross the border to take advantage of our high minimum wage and then take the money back to Idaho, where they pay peanuts in state tax.

It's easier for Idaho to mooch off the fed and that's what Washington should do. Fark it, don't raise taxes, mooch like Idaho does.

/they took our jerbs

08 Dec 2012 03:52 AM
Juansmith     
Unless of course they plan on concurrently lowering the gas tax, which (thanks to Washington voters rejecting a referendum on this like idiots) is currently the highest in the country.

But they won't.

08 Dec 2012 03:53 AM
DrPainMD    [TotalFark]  
I have a better idea: stop paying 20 people to stand around watching one guy work. In my state, roads are little more than decoration for the pot-holes, but they should be paved with gold for what we pay to "maintain" them.

08 Dec 2012 03:53 AM
filter     
Stupid system. We have tolls everywhere in this part of Norway. Local tolls. I live on the edge of a zone. It is cheaper for me to drive 20 minutes to shop in my zone than to drive to the mall 3 min away- outside the zone.

08 Dec 2012 03:58 AM
Mr. Tweedy     
Throw a tax on tires. Until they invent flying cars of course then we can have this discussion again.

08 Dec 2012 03:58 AM
pdrake     
flat tax

08 Dec 2012 03:59 AM
lordargent     
Dinjiin: I loved it when gas was over $5.50 gallon during a panic a few years ago.

I consume an average of 1.44 gallons per day
The most I ever paid for gas (premium) was $4.869 on 6/11/2008 and again on 6/22/2008
$4.869 * 1.44 =~ $7.01 spent on gas daily.

From 6/13/2006 to my last fill up (2365 days)I've spent $12206.82 on 3416.17 gallons of gas (an average of $3.57 per gallon, $5.16 per day).

// money spent on gas is the least of my concerns, talk to me about dental work someday :P

08 Dec 2012 03:59 AM
Acravius     
Trucks and heavy vehicles destroy the roads.
1. Convert the country to Wind and Solar electrical generation. (Electrolysis of water to Hydrogen Oxygen for storage and to balance out wind solar energy fluctuations)
2. Take the coal trains off the rails, replace the trucks with boxes on rails.
3. Build closer refineries to major population centers along with water recycling and thermal depolymerization sites (serving 1.1 Million population each)

= Removal of 90% of heavy vehicles and trucks from the road.
Roads last 10 years instead of 4, gas tax revenue miraculously now cover repair costs without any further change.

08 Dec 2012 04:00 AM
God-is-a-Taco     

Dinjiin:
Besides, there is only so much weight than can be shaved from a vehicle without resorting to very expensive exotic materials. Most of the cutting edge alloys that automakers are currently eying shave only about 20% off the weight. Unless there is some unforeseen drop in the cost of manufacturing non-brittle composites, they're not going to be cost effective anytime soon.


I remember reading an article about how all the great gains by reducing car weight with superior, more advanced materials has been cancelled by the obesity epidemic.

The 201,305,105th way fat people ruin the world.

08 Dec 2012 04:05 AM
Mr. Ekshun     
Imagine how bad things would be if we were allowed vehicles which were actually fuel efficient. Like they do in Europe.

I guess the only way Washington can survive is a Hummer in every garage.

08 Dec 2012 04:06 AM
Gdalescrboz     

Acravius

Trucks and heavy vehicles destroy the roads.
1. Convert the country to Wind and Solar electrical generation. (Electrolysis of water to Hydrogen Oxygen for storage and to balance out wind solar energy fluctuations)
2. Take the coal trains off the rails, replace the trucks with boxes on rails.
3. Build closer refineries to major population centers along with water recycling and thermal depolymerization sites (serving 1.1 Million population each)

= Removal of 90% of heavy vehicles and trucks from the road.
Roads last 10 years instead of 4, gas tax revenue miraculously now cover repair costs without any further change


Great idea, make it so semi's are unusable. We can force trucking companies to use 20 vehicles to transport goods rather than 1, or, they can just increase shipping and handling by 10 fold per item. Great idea champ, you would make a spectacular CEO

08 Dec 2012 04:06 AM
david_gaithersburg     

Corvus: Jedekai: Reasons Montana Rules #6598543:

Hybrids pay MORE in vehicular tax per year.

/Enjoy your toxic chemicals, and the fact that your vehicle is more damaging to the environment than the oil you won't use!

[citation please]

Is that the bs report that pretends people get rid of their Prius in three years and the battery is not recycled? I hope not.


.
It's many things actually. Also includes the mining for rare earth elements. btw, do you know why rare earth elements are so farking expensive, because their farking RARE.

08 Dec 2012 04:06 AM
Great Janitor     
Oh...this again. The optimist in me wants to say that this would never pass because of privacy issues and that the ACLU should be fighting shiat like this because the only way to determine if my state gets the taxes for the miles that I drive in my state, the will have to have some sort of GPS in my car. And one thing that I have realized that if there is a record of it, law enforcement and lawyers can get it. Why would they??? Simple. There is a shooting at some location. Law enforcement starts by going through GPS records to figure out what cars were in the area as a list of suspects. Or, even simpler, use the GPS devices to monitor how fast you are traveling, ticket you accordingly. As for lawyers, if you were going through a divorce or a child custody case, the last thing you'd want is for a lawyer to be able to pull your GPS records to see where you spend your time.

The realist in me knows that there are a huge amount of voters who are more than willing to just bend over and accept what the government wants to do and then thank them for the privilege of getting farked over. And if there isn't, then who cares, the state and federal governments have shown multiple times in the past that voters don't actually need to vote on laws that effect them, they can simply vote for themselves to make it legal to monitor every move we make, every word we say every mile we drive and location we stop at while they cry "It's for the children!" or "It's for the environment!".

Next year I plan on buying a hybrid. Not for any noble reasons such as being greener, but because I do alot of city driving and hybrids get great city mileage and not to mention the relief at the pump. A special tax for hybrids will probably keep me from going to a hybrid and continue to drive regular gas only cars.

08 Dec 2012 04:07 AM
signaljammer     
No, rare earth metals are expensive because the refining costs are high.

08 Dec 2012 04:09 AM
Dinjiin     

Acravius: Electrolysis of water to Hydrogen Oxygen for storage and to balance out wind solar energy fluctuations


There is a fair bit of energy lost in those conversions, not to mention hydrogen seepage from tanks. I'm curious if gravity batteries would be more efficient.


lordargent: money spent on gas is the least of my concerns, talk to me about dental work someday


My favorite was when people with $35,000+ vehicles complained about the price of fuel going up by $1. When looking at total cost of ownership, how does fuel figure into the picture?

08 Dec 2012 04:12 AM
Poo_Fight     
Just another brick in the wall of tyranny:

We suspect you of shoplifting! GIVE US YOUR DATA! YOUR PAPERS PLEASE!

-or we'll no knock warrant your home, seize your computer, study your internet history, take over your facebook and twitter accounts, warrentless wiretap every phone associated with your home or your family, dig through your driving data, and bring to bear the unlimited resources, and crusihing weight and power of the federal government against you, citizen!


Only thing to do now is to revolt or become one of the oppressors.

YAY PATRIOT ACT!!!

08 Dec 2012 04:12 AM
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