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   80-year-old man banned from owning guns after pointing his rifle at people and telling them to get off his property

08 Dec 2012 02:26 PM   |   5364 clicks   |   Sun News Network
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Toshiro Mifune's Letter Opener     
And they better leave his Gran Torino the hell alone, too.

08 Dec 2012 01:36 PM
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SecretAgentWoman    [TotalFark]  
www.globalnerdy.com

/obligatory

08 Dec 2012 01:46 PM
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MaudlinMutantMollusk    [TotalFark]  
I wondered what Clint had been up to since the convention

08 Dec 2012 02:20 PM
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zulius     
[obligatory Simpsons and Clin...]
Toshiro Mifune's Letter Opener:

SecretAgentWoman:

...
3.bp.blogspot.com

08 Dec 2012 02:29 PM
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Toshiro Mifune's Letter Opener     

MaudlinMutantMollusk: I wondered what Clint had been up to since the convention


Chairs aren't going to yell at themselves, man.


zulius: 3.bp.blogspot.com


Heh, I got a chuckle out of that - cheers!

08 Dec 2012 02:32 PM
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BeerGraduate     
blogs.browardpalmbeach.com

/maybe some farkers will reach an epiphany

08 Dec 2012 02:33 PM
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Cyno01    [TotalFark]  
The man and the mans daughter deny he pointed it at anyone. And meeting armed strangers on your property similarly armed just seems prudent. They teach this shiat in hunter safety class, if you want to ask permission to hunt on someones land, you contact them well in advance with a friendly evening visit but try not to interrupt their dinner. You dont ask for permission to hunt at 5am on the first day of hunting season with your rifle in hand.

08 Dec 2012 02:36 PM
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Brick-House     
I really do not see a problem with this...

craig.purplestateofmind.com

08 Dec 2012 02:36 PM
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ladyfortuna     

Cyno01: The man and the mans daughter deny he pointed it at anyone. And meeting armed strangers on your property similarly armed just seems prudent. They teach this shiat in hunter safety class, if you want to ask permission to hunt on someones land, you contact them well in advance with a friendly evening visit but try not to interrupt their dinner. You dont ask for permission to hunt at 5am on the first day of hunting season with your rifle in hand.


I'd think you also don't report the old man, assuming you have any intention of asking again. Hope he finds some other ways to keep them out.

08 Dec 2012 02:39 PM
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Oznog     
www.dvdactive.com

Careful there. One's grizzled, the other's a codger. 

www.movieactors.com

Which one are YOU??

"Grizzled? Codger? Either way, I'm the man with the gun!"

08 Dec 2012 02:41 PM
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Honest Bender    [TotalFark]  
Justice Deborah Austin said the man's reaction the visitors, who said they were there to ask permission to hunt on the land, was dangerous.

Uh, you got that backwards, Dumborah. It was dangerous for the trespassers to trespass while carrying guns. Why not inflict punishment on the people who actually committed the crime?

08 Dec 2012 02:42 PM
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Kyle Butler     

08 Dec 2012 02:43 PM
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baronvonzipper     

ladyfortuna: Cyno01: The man and the mans daughter deny he pointed it at anyone. And meeting armed strangers on your property similarly armed just seems prudent. They teach this shiat in hunter safety class, if you want to ask permission to hunt on someones land, you contact them well in advance with a friendly evening visit but try not to interrupt their dinner. You dont ask for permission to hunt at 5am on the first day of hunting season with your rifle in hand.

I'd think you also don't report the old man, assuming you have any intention of asking again. Hope he finds some other ways to keep them out.


upload.wikimedia.org

08 Dec 2012 02:47 PM
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davidphogan     

Kyle Butler: Here's a story about a guy who holds a group of teenagers hostage at gunpoint, not on his property, and doesn't even get indicted. Its' the Tennessee way


Even the kids who were held didn't sound like they cared, so that's a bit different of a situation entirely.

08 Dec 2012 02:48 PM
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Oznog     

Kyle Butler: Here in Tennessee I could shoot them and just tell the authorities I felt threatened.


Here's a story about a guy who holds a group of teenagers hostage at gunpoint, not on his property, and doesn't even get indicted. Its' the Tennessee way


Texas, too. Ironically enough, Stand Yer Ground kinda means you can shoot them because, due to SYG laws, they're able to legally kill you because you've got a gun. So they're a threat.

Now you might say "no that's dumb, the visitor can't legally shoot at the owner just because the owner brandished a gun. The visitor could just back away and leave!!" But that's the WHOLE POINT OF SYG LAWS. The PRIOR legal standard was that there was a "duty to retreat" from a threat. At least TRY to retreat, somehow make the case that there was no way to do so. SYG's primary change, by design, is that you don't.

A visitor isn't legally trespassing by coming up to the front door until asked to leave, there's an implicit invitation (back yard, no, you can't just jump the fence show up there). By this perverse loop of logic both the owner and visitor may kill one another legally under SYG, for no other reason whatsoever except than the other was going to kill them as per their right under SYG.

08 Dec 2012 02:54 PM
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Nick Nostril     
Oh, Canada.

08 Dec 2012 02:57 PM
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diaphoresis     
Won't someone come to the defense of the octogenarians?

msnbcmedia2.msn.com
zev.lacounty.gov
assets.flavorwire.com

08 Dec 2012 03:00 PM
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Gosling     

Kyle Butler: Here in Tennessee I could shoot them and just tell the authorities I felt threatened.


Here's a story about a guy who holds a group of teenagers hostage at gunpoint, not on his property, and doesn't even get indicted. Its' the Tennessee way


Canada has different gun laws than the United States. Hell, just about everyone has different gun laws than the United States.

They don't let you make 'one phone call' up there either.

08 Dec 2012 03:00 PM
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StingerJ     
DAD?

My dad has started losing it as he ages. He apparently accosted a guy who braked hard to make a turn into a driveway. "Well I felt violated because it scared me how hard we had to brake." I never heard how his court case turned out.

I can't help but wonder if this guy is similarly deteriorating. Something that may have pissed him off 20 years ago now makes him feel like he's under attack.

08 Dec 2012 03:03 PM
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MightyPez     

Gosling: They don't let you make 'one phone call' up there either.


They don't have to in the US either. All you have a right to is legal representation, not necessarily a phone call.

08 Dec 2012 03:03 PM
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GRCooper     
Not 'property' subby, 'lawn'

08 Dec 2012 03:05 PM
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sulco     

Cyno01: The man and the mans daughter deny he pointed it at anyone. And meeting armed strangers on your property similarly armed just seems prudent. They teach this shiat in hunter safety class, if you want to ask permission to hunt on someones land, you contact them well in advance with a friendly evening visit but try not to interrupt their dinner. You dont ask for permission to hunt at 5am on the first day of hunting season with your rifle in hand.


Yeah, it's pretty much common sense you'd think... a little respect goes a long way. A bottle of their favorite hooch for them doesn't hurt either. We were invited back *many* times when I hunted in Montana just for that little bit of extra thanks.

/fellow .303 Enfield owner

fistbump

08 Dec 2012 03:07 PM
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spaten     
Wanted for questioning: 

t2.gstatic.com

08 Dec 2012 03:10 PM
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Onkel Buck     
i26.photobucket.com
Approves

08 Dec 2012 03:11 PM
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iheartscotch    [TotalFark]  
On one hand; poachers need to DIAF. Tresspassors poaching on private land are a huge problem some places. They cause lots damage, don't know how to bury poop and shoot up other people's property. if they were asking for permission, they should have left their guns in the truck.

On the other; you can't just wave your guns around every time someone comes to your front door.

08 Dec 2012 03:12 PM
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Farking Canuck     

iheartscotch: On one hand; poachers need to DIAF. Tresspassors poaching on private land are a huge problem some places. They cause lots damage, don't know how to bury poop and shoot up other people's property. if they were asking for permission, they should have left their guns in the truck.

On the other; you can't just wave your guns around every time someone comes to your front door.


I don't recall anywhere in the article that said the hunters had their guns out. In Canada there are pretty tight transport rules including ammunition being separated from the guns ... so if these hunters had just arrived and were requesting permission it is unlikely they had unpacked and readied their weapons.

08 Dec 2012 03:18 PM
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StoPPeRmobile     

spaten: Wanted for questioning: 

[t2.gstatic.com image 200x246]


Had a blast with that game.

3d took me away from it.

08 Dec 2012 03:25 PM
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iheartscotch    [TotalFark]  

Farking Canuck: iheartscotch: On one hand; poachers need to DIAF. Tresspassors poaching on private land are a huge problem some places. They cause lots damage, don't know how to bury poop and shoot up other people's property. if they were asking for permission, they should have left their guns in the truck.

On the other; you can't just wave your guns around every time someone comes to your front door.

I don't recall anywhere in the article that said the hunters had their guns out. In Canada there are pretty tight transport rules including ammunition being separated from the guns ... so if these hunters had just arrived and were requesting permission it is unlikely they had unpacked and readied their weapons.


The first time I read the article; it seemed that the "visitors" probably had their guns out and the old guy freaked.

Who knows; the article lacks detail. If the old guy saw their truck on the road by his land nowhere near his home; I can see his reaction being justified.

/ I'd like to see if there is another source has more details

08 Dec 2012 03:27 PM
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Running Block     

Honest Bender: Uh, you got that backwards, Dumborah. It was dangerous for the trespassers to trespass while carrying guns. Why not inflict punishment on the people who actually committed the crime?


Cyno01: The man and the mans daughter deny he pointed it at anyone. And meeting armed strangers on your property similarly armed just seems prudent. They teach this shiat in hunter safety class, if you want to ask permission to hunt on someones land, you contact them well in advance with a friendly evening visit but try not to interrupt their dinner. You dont ask for permission to hunt at 5am on the first day of hunting season with your rifle in hand.


iheartscotch: On one hand; poachers need to DIAF. Tresspassors poaching on private land are a huge problem some places. They cause lots damage, don't know how to bury poop and shoot up other people's property. if they were asking for permission, they should have left their guns in the truck.

On the other; you can't just wave your guns around every time someone comes to your front door.


Did you guys read a different article? Nowhere is it mentioned that the hunters were armed. They were likely wearing camo and their orange, which is likely how the landowner identified them as hunters. Since nowhere does it say the hunters were carrying their weapons at the time, they likely had them stowed in their vehicle.

sulco: Yeah, it's pretty much common sense you'd think... a little respect goes a long way. A bottle of their favorite hooch for them doesn't hurt either. We were invited back *many* times when I hunted in Montana just for that little bit of extra thanks.

/fellow .303 Enfield owner

fistbump


Yeah, my parents live next to a conservation area, so tons of wildlife including big game (elk, moose, bear). The amount of people who have hunted on our place with permission has yielded quite a bit of nice thankyous, from booze to free fishing trips to custom stainless steel work. People hunting without permission hasn't really been a problem. Snowmobilers who prefer to cut through a fence as opposed to using a gate has been a bit of a pain in the ass.

08 Dec 2012 03:36 PM
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DickNomms     
Amusing? Is the Sad tag on vacation?

08 Dec 2012 03:38 PM
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SirDigbyChickenCaesar     
images.smh.com.au

What rule? We shot them under rule 3....0....3...

08 Dec 2012 03:42 PM
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iheartscotch    [TotalFark]  

Running Block: Honest Bender: Uh, you got that backwards, Dumborah. It was dangerous for the trespassers to trespass while carrying guns. Why not inflict punishment on the people who actually committed the crime?

Cyno01: The man and the mans daughter deny he pointed it at anyone. And meeting armed strangers on your property similarly armed just seems prudent. They teach this shiat in hunter safety class, if you want to ask permission to hunt on someones land, you contact them well in advance with a friendly evening visit but try not to interrupt their dinner. You dont ask for permission to hunt at 5am on the first day of hunting season with your rifle in hand.

iheartscotch: On one hand; poachers need to DIAF. Tresspassors poaching on private land are a huge problem some places. They cause lots damage, don't know how to bury poop and shoot up other people's property. if they were asking for permission, they should have left their guns in the truck.

On the other; you can't just wave your guns around every time someone comes to your front door.

Did you guys read a different article? Nowhere is it mentioned that the hunters were armed. They were likely wearing camo and their orange, which is likely how the landowner identified them as hunters. Since nowhere does it say the hunters were carrying their weapons at the time, they likely had them stowed in their vehicle.

sulco: Yeah, it's pretty much common sense you'd think... a little respect goes a long way. A bottle of their favorite hooch for them doesn't hurt either. We were invited back *many* times when I hunted in Montana just for that little bit of extra thanks.

/fellow .303 Enfield owner

fistbump

Yeah, my parents live next to a conservation area, so tons of wildlife including big game (elk, moose, bear). The amount of people who have hunted on our place with permission has yielded quite a bit of nice thankyous, from booze to free fishing trips to custom stainless steel work. People hunting without permission hasn't really been a problem. Snowmobilers who prefer to cut through a fence as opposed to using a gate has been a bit of a pain in the ass.


My reason for thinking they had their guns out is the old guy's reaction. Either that, or he found them way away from his house already set up to hunt without his permission.

You don't just decide to get your rifle out for no reason. I'd take the old guy's word in this situation; because that is exactly what trespassers would say. The old guy should have probably called the cops; but, I'm betting he lives way out in the sticks.

/ the article just give a whole lot of detail

08 Dec 2012 03:45 PM
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Clint_Torres    [TotalFark]  

Farking Canuck: I don't recall anywhere in the article that said the hunters had their guns out. In Canada there are pretty tight transport rules including ammunition being separated from the guns ... so if these hunters had just arrived and were requesting permission it is unlikely they had unpacked and readied their weapons.


FTA: Justice Deborah Austin said the man's reaction the visitors, who said they were there to ask permission to hunt on the land, was dangerous.

Technically you are correct, but it's not like anyone has ever lied before.

08 Dec 2012 03:46 PM
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Schmee     
WTF are guns for, then?

Honestly, some people.

08 Dec 2012 03:47 PM
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ZuZu     
This article says the guys came to ask permission to hunt at a later date. Probably safe to assume they were not in their hunting gear nor did they have their weapons on them.

08 Dec 2012 03:47 PM
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ExcaliburPrime111     
People should not point guns at other people approaching from the front door. The proper thing would be for the old man to grab his gun, tell the hunters to sod off, and only point at them if they refused to leave or behaved threateningly.

In any case, the old man should just transfer ownership of the guns to his daughter but otherwise keep them at his house, in case he needs to use them (properly this time!) in the future.

08 Dec 2012 04:01 PM
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tlchwi02     

ZuZu: This article says the guys came to ask permission to hunt at a later date. Probably safe to assume they were not in their hunting gear nor did they have their weapons on them.


thank you, that article is actually good (shame on you subby!) the old guy and his daughter had different stories (casting doubt on the vailidity of either of them,) the hunters were not armed and hadn't done anything more than driven up his driveway. from that article its pretty clear the old dude went all crazy coot on a couple of guys for no good reason and should probably have his guns taken away before he hurts someone.

08 Dec 2012 04:14 PM
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meanmutton     

Oznog: Kyle Butler: Here in Tennessee I could shoot them and just tell the authorities I felt threatened.


Here's a story about a guy who holds a group of teenagers hostage at gunpoint, not on his property, and doesn't even get indicted. Its' the Tennessee way

Texas, too. Ironically enough, Stand Yer Ground kinda means you can shoot them because, due to SYG laws, they're able to legally kill you because you've got a gun. So they're a threat.

Now you might say "no that's dumb, the visitor can't legally shoot at the owner just because the owner brandished a gun. The visitor could just back away and leave!!" But that's the WHOLE POINT OF SYG LAWS. The PRIOR legal standard was that there was a "duty to retreat" from a threat. At least TRY to retreat, somehow make the case that there was no way to do so. SYG's primary change, by design, is that you don't.

A visitor isn't legally trespassing by coming up to the front door until asked to leave, there's an implicit invitation (back yard, no, you can't just jump the fence show up there). By this perverse loop of logic both the owner and visitor may kill one another legally under SYG, for no other reason whatsoever except than the other was going to kill them as per their right under SYG.


"Stand your ground" laws do not apply to visitors, only to those on their own property.

08 Dec 2012 04:38 PM
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kukukupo     
Really?

Someone shows up with weapons to hunt on your property and you show up with yours and tell them to leave and YOU get in trouble?

/glad I don't live in Canada

08 Dec 2012 04:50 PM
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Suede head     
Lee-Enfield .303. Classic, beautiful weapon. Always apply rule 303.

08 Dec 2012 04:52 PM
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Gyrfalcon     
I'd just as soon grizzled old men DIDN'T have guns, if their first reaction upon seeing people is to grab said guns and point them at said people. If the old man is that paranoid, take his gun away and give him something less lethal.

Probably take his car too. Next thing, he'll be driving through some farmer's market because some idiot reversed his brake and gas pedal.

08 Dec 2012 05:02 PM
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iheartscotch    [TotalFark]  

Gyrfalcon: I'd just as soon grizzled old men DIDN'T have guns, if their first reaction upon seeing people is to grab said guns and point them at said people. If the old man is that paranoid, take his gun away and give him something less lethal.

Probably take his car too. Next thing, he'll be driving through some farmer's market because some idiot reversed his brake and gas pedal.


They're trying to take our licenses away, and I, for one, am mad as hell.

/ I'm sick of my mental condition being called into question

08 Dec 2012 05:06 PM
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SmithHiller     
4.bp.blogspot.com
Was it this guy?

08 Dec 2012 05:06 PM
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diaphoresis     

spaten: Wanted for questioning: 

[t2.gstatic.com image 200x246]


omg... I played that game...

/wrists

08 Dec 2012 05:07 PM
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Frank N Stein     

Oznog: "duty to retreat"


No one should have a duty to retreat on their own property. Conversely, people should go off a shooting upon even a small hint of danger. There's a middle ground here which is, as middle grounds tend to be, the more sensible option.

/Though I'm doubting that SYG has led to many unneeded deaths

08 Dec 2012 05:14 PM
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beany     

meanmutton: Oznog: Kyle Butler: Here in Tennessee I could shoot them and just tell the authorities I felt threatened.

"Stand your ground" laws do not apply to visitors, only to those on their own property.


From Wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stand-yo ur-ground_law]:

More than half of the states in the United States have adopted the Castle doctrine, stating that a person has no duty to retreat when their home is attacked. Some states go a step further, removing the duty of retreat from other locations.

George Zimmerman was not on his own private property.

08 Dec 2012 05:31 PM
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Electrify     
Hi I'm looking for Ray Finkle...

/obscure?

08 Dec 2012 05:45 PM
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Electrify     

tlchwi02: ZuZu: This article says the guys came to ask permission to hunt at a later date. Probably safe to assume they were not in their hunting gear nor did they have their weapons on them.

thank you, that article is actually good (shame on you subby!) the old guy and his daughter had different stories (casting doubt on the vailidity of either of them,) the hunters were not armed and hadn't done anything more than driven up his driveway. from that article its pretty clear the old dude went all crazy coot on a couple of guys for no good reason and should probably have his guns taken away before he hurts someone.


Sun News Network is basically the Fox News channel of Canada.

I stand corrected, even at their worst, Fox News has more class than Sun Media.

/fortunately here people have enough sense to not watch or read their garbage.

08 Dec 2012 05:52 PM
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GRCooper     

SmithHiller: [4.bp.blogspot.com image 600x450]
Was it this guy?


Nah, he'd have shot them in the face


/damn, that's a beautiful rifle

08 Dec 2012 06:00 PM
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daisygrrl     
This reminds me of how my ex got his .303. His grandma got pissed off at a neighbour and started waving her gun around in the front yard. The RCMP came and told her she had to either give up her gun or get charged with brandishing a firearm. So she signed it over to her 12-year-old grandson. Problem solved.

/css

08 Dec 2012 06:00 PM
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