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   Just in case modern medical needles aren't scary and painful enough, scientists are working to make them more like porcupine quills

13 Dec 2012 09:36 AM   |   4799 clicks   |   Mother Nature Network
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probesport     
Winona loved her big brown beaver and she stroked it all the time.

13 Dec 2012 09:37 AM
forteblast     
FTFA: "This would also create less pain for the patients receiving the injections."

Soooooo... what's the problem here exactly?

13 Dec 2012 09:41 AM
Incontinent_dog_and_monkey_rodeo     
I've always thought that medical needles should be huge scary looking things with spikes all over them. Then they show you the actual needle tip and you're so relieved you don't even feel it.

13 Dec 2012 09:43 AM
AntonChigger     

probesport: Winona loved her big brown beaver and she stroked it all the time.


She pricked her finger one day and it occurred to her SHE MIGHT HAVE A PORCUPINE

13 Dec 2012 09:44 AM
pute kisses like a man     
i never minded the needles so much, at least for injections. i only minded the needles when they were taking stuff away, like
www.american-buddha.comView Full Size

13 Dec 2012 09:45 AM
probesport     
I've seen the needle and the damage done.

13 Dec 2012 09:47 AM
Balchinian     
Needles are already 1000x better than they were only 20 years ago. If they continue to improve, the most dreaded part of getting an injection won't be the shot itself, it will be the tear-inducing bandage removal process.

13 Dec 2012 09:48 AM
THX 1138     
Actually no, I don't find modern medical needles to be either scary or painful at all. Seriously Subby? A stubbed toe toe hurts a helluva lot more.

13 Dec 2012 09:48 AM
Summoner101     
The people most afraid of needles are the people you'd least expect to be afraid of them. Some of the biggest, muscle-bound, tattoo-laden guys are complete wimps when it comes to shots or IVs whereas most other people, besides children, are happy enough just to get it over with.

13 Dec 2012 09:48 AM
NutWrench    [TotalFark]  
Just in case modern medical needles aren't scary and painful enough . . .

I remember a time before your fancy schmanzy disposable hypodermic syringes.
Now that was scary and painful.

13 Dec 2012 09:48 AM
Gyrth     
This is cool. Jeff Karp is a good friend of mine. Good person and a dog lover. His research (other things than this) is going to improve our lives.

13 Dec 2012 10:05 AM
Cybernetic     
www.mnn.comView Full Size


I never realized how much a porcupine looks like a guinea pig having a bad hair day.

13 Dec 2012 10:06 AM
assjuice     
If you have small veins modern needles are no picnic.

13 Dec 2012 10:08 AM
HailRobonia     

Gyrth: This is cool. Jeff Karp is a good friend of mine. Good person and a dog lover. His research (other things than this) is going to improve our lives.


But he has no business doing biomedical engineering. With a name like that he should be an ichthyologist.

(I wonder if the dog lover part of him has anything to do with the porcupine quill idea, since in my experience dogs have a strange urge to stick their faces into porcupines.)

13 Dec 2012 10:09 AM
jtown     
25.media.tumblr.comView Full Size

13 Dec 2012 10:10 AM
BarkingUnicorn     
Has anyone experienced a jet injector? Is it less painful than needles? I can't tell if this kid is hurting or scared.

upload.wikimedia.orgView Full Size

13 Dec 2012 10:12 AM
BarkingUnicorn     

assjuice: If you have small veins modern needles are no picnic.


How so? I'd rather not try to fit BIG needle into a small vein.

13 Dec 2012 10:14 AM
AntonChigger     
Meant to post this earlier

Related
mrvictim.files.wordpress.comView Full Size

13 Dec 2012 10:17 AM
Brew78     
FTFA: "We believe that evolution is the best problem-solver"

I agree. IMO, more designers need to look to nature to base their ideas on. Why spend so much time, effort, and resources inventing something that's already been "in production" for untold numbers of years? (Oh, right, because we already know everything and are > nature)

There was this cool demo I saw in a robotics course I was taking, they had some guy showing off some tech they'd developed where they'd based a listening circuit on a bat's ear. Like, mechanically and bioelectrically, they mapped out how a bat hears sound and built their device based on that plan. The idea was that they could have this robot accompany ground troops in an urban setting and if a gunshot rang out from a building, it would turn and point (camera, IR pointer, target designator, whatever) directly at the window the sound came from with a very high level of accuracy.

Granted, it was just a guy walking around the room banging on a tray, but it was pretty impressive how the camera consistently pointed directly at the spot on the tray that he'd hit.

13 Dec 2012 10:18 AM
The Jami Turman Fan Club     

Incontinent_dog_and_monkey_rodeo: I've always thought that medical needles should be huge scary looking things with spikes all over them. Then they show you the actual needle tip and you're so relieved you don't even feel it.


I dunno. Got a flu shot and it hurt like heck. They told me the pain makes it work better. Not sure I believe them.

13 Dec 2012 10:18 AM
Maud Dib     
Q: How do porcupines fark?
A: Very carefully.

13 Dec 2012 10:20 AM
HailRobonia     

Brew78: There was this cool demo I saw in a robotics course I was taking, they had some guy showing off some tech they'd developed where they'd based a listening circuit on a bat's ear.


Sounds like something from a SyFy channel movie. "RoboBat" or something. The scientist laments "If only I hadn't added wings and fangs to my bat-ear circuitry this never would have happened!"

13 Dec 2012 10:23 AM
Nickninja     

Balchinian: Needles are already 1000x better than they were only 20 years ago. If they continue to improve, the most dreaded part of getting an injection won't be the shot itself, it will be the tear-inducing bandage removal process.



As a hairy italian man, I can attest that bandage removal is most certainly the worst part for me.

13 Dec 2012 10:27 AM
Englebert Slaptyback     

BarkingUnicorn


Has anyone experienced a jet injector? Is it less painful than needles? I can't tell if this kid is hurting or scared.


Yes - Uncle Sam uses them, or at least did a while ago. IIRC it's a bit more painful than a needle, and don't flinch or you will get a nasty leaker as the jet cuts your skin. It happened to the guy ahead of me.

The kid in the pic is probably just scared. The jet injection takes only a fraction of a second, so if he were crying about the pain he wouldn't have time to get started while the injector was on his arm.

13 Dec 2012 10:30 AM
JackieRabbit     
Is subby a needle puss-puss?

13 Dec 2012 10:34 AM
Private_Citizen    [TotalFark]  

Summoner101: The people most afraid of needles are the people you'd least expect to be afraid of them. Some of the biggest, muscle-bound, tattoo-laden guys are complete wimps when it comes to shots or IVs whereas most other people, besides children, are happy enough just to get it over with.


I pretty much fit this (minus the tattoos). Some people think it's funny, but I'm finding more and more medical professionals who take needle phobia seriously. My doc has me lay down when he draws blood or gives me a shot - and that helps.

By the way, like most phobias, it's an irrational fear. I don't think needles hurt, it's just the thought that gets me. So, while improved, less painful needles will help most people, they probably won't help those of us with needle phobias.

13 Dec 2012 10:35 AM
JeffreyScott     
If you haven't seen the movie Puncture based on real life events...

The film is based on two young lawyers and a syringe manufacturer who had invented a safety syringe that he was unable to sell. The safety syringe had a retractable needle to prevent accidental sticks. The safety syringe manufacturer filed an antitrust lawsuit against the two largest hospital group purchasing organizations and a large syringe manufacturer claiming he was being shut out of the market. The case was settled 2004 before trial for $150 million.

Despite settling the case and allegedly opening the market so this safety syringe can be sold, and the support from nurses and other medical personnel, the safety syringe has not achieved widespread usage.

While the description of the movie linked above focuses on the attorneys' representing a stuck nurse, one of the real heroes is the inventor of the retractable needle, who refused to sell his invention to sell his invention to big pharm as he knew they would never produce it. He gave up millions to do the right thing. Sadly, even after moving forward with his law suit the needle is still not being used on any large scale.

13 Dec 2012 10:38 AM
Gough     

Summoner101: The people most afraid of needles are the people you'd least expect to be afraid of them. Some of the biggest, muscle-bound, tattoo-laden guys are complete wimps when it comes to shots or IVs whereas most other people, besides children, are happy enough just to get it over with.


A family friend always has to take two other friends with him if he has to get a shot...to carry him back out to the car and drive him home.

To whomever complains about modern disposable needles: you need to go to some old doc who has some old glass syringes with needles that are large enough that he can scrub out the bore after each use. Then we can talk.

13 Dec 2012 10:44 AM
Doom MD     

JeffreyScott: If you haven't seen the movie Puncture based on real life events...

The film is based on two young lawyers and a syringe manufacturer who had invented a safety syringe that he was unable to sell. The safety syringe had a retractable needle to prevent accidental sticks. The safety syringe manufacturer filed an antitrust lawsuit against the two largest hospital group purchasing organizations and a large syringe manufacturer claiming he was being shut out of the market. The case was settled 2004 before trial for $150 million.

Despite settling the case and allegedly opening the market so this safety syringe can be sold, and the support from nurses and other medical personnel, the safety syringe has not achieved widespread usage.

While the description of the movie linked above focuses on the attorneys' representing a stuck nurse, one of the real heroes is the inventor of the retractable needle, who refused to sell his invention to sell his invention to big pharm as he knew they would never produce it. He gave up millions to do the right thing. Sadly, even after moving forward with his law suit the needle is still not being used on any large scale.


How expensive was his needle?

13 Dec 2012 10:44 AM
globalwarmingpraiser     
Make smaller gauge needles stiffer. That will reduce pain and IV misses.

13 Dec 2012 10:46 AM
globalwarmingpraiser     

JeffreyScott: If you haven't seen the movie Puncture based on real life events...

The film is based on two young lawyers and a syringe manufacturer who had invented a safety syringe that he was unable to sell. The safety syringe had a retractable needle to prevent accidental sticks. The safety syringe manufacturer filed an antitrust lawsuit against the two largest hospital group purchasing organizations and a large syringe manufacturer claiming he was being shut out of the market. The case was settled 2004 before trial for $150 million.

Despite settling the case and allegedly opening the market so this safety syringe can be sold, and the support from nurses and other medical personnel, the safety syringe has not achieved widespread usage.

While the description of the movie linked above focuses on the attorneys' representing a stuck nurse, one of the real heroes is the inventor of the retractable needle, who refused to sell his invention to sell his invention to big pharm as he knew they would never produce it. He gave up millions to do the right thing. Sadly, even after moving forward with his law suit the needle is still not being used on any large scale.

Most medical providers use needle stick prevention devices including retractable or coverable needles.

13 Dec 2012 10:53 AM
Techhell     

Private_Citizen: Summoner101: The people most afraid of needles are the people you'd least expect to be afraid of them. Some of the biggest, muscle-bound, tattoo-laden guys are complete wimps when it comes to shots or IVs whereas most other people, besides children, are happy enough just to get it over with.

I pretty much fit this (minus the tattoos). Some people think it's funny, but I'm finding more and more medical professionals who take needle phobia seriously. My doc has me lay down when he draws blood or gives me a shot - and that helps.

By the way, like most phobias, it's an irrational fear. I don't think needles hurt, it's just the thought that gets me. So, while improved, less painful needles will help most people, they probably won't help those of us with needle phobias.


Not a muscle bound tattooed guy, but needles creep me out to the point where I sometimes get ill watching people take needles even on TV. I know that they're essentially harmless, and I know full well that the last shots I got (about a year ago, tetanus I think. I hadn't been to a doctor in about 15 years due to a fear of needles, so when I finally got my arse into a new doctor's office to make sure that I was taking care of my health before my child was born, they recommended getting a shot) neither hurt nor left a bruise. I know I didn't feel it when it was given to me, but even as I type this I can feel a slight pain in my arm where I got the shot. It's stupid. It's irrational. And it means that I don't go to the doctors when my child gets their vaccines, so that I don't accidentally pass this phobia on to them. (Which annoys the wife to no end and means that for the week before and the week after, I get to do more of the diaper changing than she does.)

The nurses at the new clinic are extremely sensitive to needle phobias like mine and were quite good about making it as stress free and painless as possible. When I got my shot, there were two of them in the room - one to give the shot, and the other to ask me questions about my medical history to distract me. Which worked extremely well for me, and they did it so smoothly that I'm sure it must have been taught in medical school, and something they get practice with on a daily basis.

/Momma Techhell was never worried about her darling baby boy ever becoming a junkie. Basement dwelling anti-social troll, maybe, but never worried about me becoming a junkie.

13 Dec 2012 11:06 AM
Doom MD     

globalwarmingpraiser: JeffreyScott: If you haven't seen the movie Puncture based on real life events...

The film is based on two young lawyers and a syringe manufacturer who had invented a safety syringe that he was unable to sell. The safety syringe had a retractable needle to prevent accidental sticks. The safety syringe manufacturer filed an antitrust lawsuit against the two largest hospital group purchasing organizations and a large syringe manufacturer claiming he was being shut out of the market. The case was settled 2004 before trial for $150 million.

Despite settling the case and allegedly opening the market so this safety syringe can be sold, and the support from nurses and other medical personnel, the safety syringe has not achieved widespread usage.

While the description of the movie linked above focuses on the attorneys' representing a stuck nurse, one of the real heroes is the inventor of the retractable needle, who refused to sell his invention to sell his invention to big pharm as he knew they would never produce it. He gave up millions to do the right thing. Sadly, even after moving forward with his law suit the needle is still not being used on any large scale.
Most medical providers use needle stick prevention devices including retractable or coverable needles.


I find many of them are a pain in the ass and make make sticks harder. Give me a straight needle over a butterfly or something with a needle retractor that limits my ability to angle the needle properly. Dont get me started on how annoying it is when the needle retractor deploys on a hair trigger (which magically happens when you start getting a flush on a hard stick).

/Phlebotomist before going to med school

13 Dec 2012 11:23 AM
MythDragon     
sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.netView Full Size

enjoy

13 Dec 2012 11:31 AM
Private_Citizen    [TotalFark]  

Techhell: Private_Citizen: Summoner101: The people most afraid of needles are the people you'd least expect to be afraid of them. Some of the biggest, muscle-bound, tattoo-laden guys are complete wimps when it comes to shots or IVs whereas most other people, besides children, are happy enough just to get it over with.

I pretty much fit this (minus the tattoos). Some people think it's funny, but I'm finding more and more medical professionals who take needle phobia seriously. My doc has me lay down when he draws blood or gives me a shot - and that helps.

By the way, like most phobias, it's an irrational fear. I don't think needles hurt, it's just the thought that gets me. So, while improved, less painful needles will help most people, they probably won't help those of us with needle phobias.

Not a muscle bound tattooed guy, but needles creep me out to the point where I sometimes get ill watching people take needles even on TV. I know that they're essentially harmless, and I know full well that the last shots I got (about a year ago, tetanus I think. I hadn't been to a doctor in about 15 years due to a fear of needles, so when I finally got my arse into a new doctor's office to make sure that I was taking care of my health before my child was born, they recommended getting a shot) neither hurt nor left a bruise. I know I didn't feel it when it was given to me, but even as I type this I can feel a slight pain in my arm where I got the shot. It's stupid. It's irrational. And it means that I don't go to the doctors when my child gets their vaccines, so that I don't accidentally pass this phobia on to them. (Which annoys the wife to no end and means that for the week before and the week after, I get to do more of the diaper changing than she does.)

The nurses at the new clinic are extremely sensitive to needle phobias like mine and were quite good about making it as stress free and painless as possible. When I got my shot, there were two of them in the room - one to give the shot, and the other to ask me questions about my medical history to distract me. Which worked extremely well for me, and they did it so smoothly that I'm sure it must have been taught in medical school, and something they get practice with on a daily basis.

/Momma Techhell was never worried about her darling baby boy ever becoming a junkie. Basement dwelling anti-social troll, maybe, but never worried about me becoming a junkie.


Don't woory about it rubbing off on your kids. I have a daughter who has to get fairly regular treatments involving needles. It's a point of pride to her that she can get shots and IVs while a big guy like me cringes. I think she finds it empowering (and a bit funny).

/I'm with you on the needle junky thing. I don't care if injectible drugs feel like farking an angel, I'm not going anywhere near them (even TV depictions squick me out).

13 Dec 2012 11:37 AM
ciberido     

Balchinian: Needles are already 1000x better than they were only 20 years ago. If they continue to improve, the most dreaded part of getting an injection won't be the shot itself, it will be the tear-inducing bandage removal process.


As someone who has to self-inject every single damn day, I'm fine with how they are today, honestly. But it is true that you'll sometimes see the skin indent around the needle before it finally breaks through, the "give" the article was talking about. It doesn't particularly bother me, but I can see that there's still room for improvement.

It's not just the sharpness or cutting power of the needle, however. It's also how much the needle "wiggles" or vibrates as it touches the skin. That an advantage to some of those lancing devices that diabetics use to prick their fingers for a blood sample. The better ones hold the blade very, very steady as it enters the skin. That lack of vibration makes the piercing considerably less painful.

13 Dec 2012 11:46 AM
Naesen     

Techhell: Private_Citizen: Summoner101: The people most afraid of needles are the people you'd least expect to be afraid of them. Some of the biggest, muscle-bound, tattoo-laden guys are complete wimps when it comes to shots or IVs whereas most other people, besides children, are happy enough just to get it over with.

I pretty much fit this (minus the tattoos). Some people think it's funny, but I'm finding more and more medical professionals who take needle phobia seriously. My doc has me lay down when he draws blood or gives me a shot - and that helps.

By the way, like most phobias, it's an irrational fear. I don't think needles hurt, it's just the thought that gets me. So, while improved, less painful needles will help most people, they probably won't help those of us with needle phobias.

Not a muscle bound tattooed guy, but needles creep me out to the point where I sometimes get ill watching people take needles even on TV. I know that they're essentially harmless, and I know full well that the last shots I got (about a year ago, tetanus I think. I hadn't been to a doctor in about 15 years due to a fear of needles, so when I finally got my arse into a new doctor's office to make sure that I was taking care of my health before my child was born, they recommended getting a shot) neither hurt nor left a bruise. I know I didn't feel it when it was given to me, but even as I type this I can feel a slight pain in my arm where I got the shot. It's stupid. It's irrational. And it means that I don't go to the doctors when my child gets their vaccines, so that I don't accidentally pass this phobia on to them. (Which annoys the wife to no end and means that for the week before and the week after, I get to do more of the diaper changing than she does.)

The nurses at the new clinic are extremely sensitive to needle phobias like mine and were quite good about making it as stress free and painless as possible. When I got my shot, there were two of them in the room - one to give the shot, and the other to ask me questions about my medical history to distract me. Which worked extremely well for me, and they did it so smoothly that I'm sure it must have been taught in medical school, and something they get practice with on a daily basis.

/Momma Techhell was never worried about her darling baby boy ever becoming a junkie. Basement dwelling anti-social troll, maybe, but never worried about me becoming a junkie.


Gah, the prick in the arm feeling. Shots don't bother me so much, but the spot where they draw your blood from on your inner elbow on your left arm... also drawing blood with a needle. I can bleed from a cut or anywhere and it's not even a thing. I can get a shot, no big deal. Getting my blood drawn? I don't "fear" it, I just farking hate the notion of it, along with the fact that I'm a slow bleeder so all of my draws take forever...

13 Dec 2012 11:53 AM
ciberido     

Summoner101: The people most afraid of needles are the people you'd least expect to be afraid of them. Some of the biggest, muscle-bound, tattoo-laden guys are complete wimps when it comes to shots or IVs whereas most other people, besides children, are happy enough just to get it over with.


When I was a Peace Corps volunteer, we had to give ourselves gamma globulin shots once a month. They would essentially mail us a syringe and we'd have to self-inject (or find someone to inject us). They had a little training about it beforehand and gave out some times on how to manage it so it wouldn't be any more unpleasant than necessary. I remember one bit of advice was "Get with another Volunteer and trade injections" because a lot of people find it easier to get injected by someone else than to inject themselves. Another was "Reward yourself with a special treat after you're done."

It seemed like a lot of fuss at the time, but I guess injections really are a big deal for some people, so anything to make it easier.

Personally, I was much more worried about the chloroquin than the gamma globulin, myself.

13 Dec 2012 11:54 AM
BarkingUnicorn     

Maud Dib: Q: How do porcupines fark?
A: Very carefully.


This was covered in another thread recently; don't recall if it was greenlit.

Basically, the female's tail is folded up over her back, presenting the quill-free underside to the male's quill-free underside.

13 Dec 2012 11:57 AM
ciberido     

Gough: Summoner101: The people most afraid of needles are the people you'd least expect to be afraid of them. Some of the biggest, muscle-bound, tattoo-laden guys are complete wimps when it comes to shots or IVs whereas most other people, besides children, are happy enough just to get it over with.

A family friend always has to take two other friends with him if he has to get a shot...to carry him back out to the car and drive him home.

To whomever complains about modern disposable needles: you need to go to some old doc who has some old glass syringes with needles that are large enough that he can scrub out the bore after each use. Then we can talk.


Not-exactly CSS time...

When I was young I hyperextended my knee. It swelled up like a watermelon and had to be aspirated. Here is a (NSFW) video (GROSS and DISGUSTING) of what it looks like (no it's not me in the video). 

The syringe was so large I swear to God when the guy walked in with it on a tray I thought he was just trying to scare me, that it was a joke. And the swelling was so bad that one syringe-full (yes, as big as in the video) wasn't enough. So he had to clamp the needle in place, sticking out of my knee, while he unscrewed the syringe and emptied and the blood and fluid into a plastic cup which he placed on the bed next to me.

Then as he was emptying the syringe into the cup a second time, with the needle still sticking out of me knee, he knocked the cup over, so the fluid, which looked like blood (and was mostly blood, I expect) went all over my shirt. I looked like I had been stabbed to death.

After he was done, he went to bring my mother in, and I remember him saying, "Now, don't worry when you see all the blood...."

The expression on her face was priceless.

13 Dec 2012 12:11 PM
ciberido     
Techhell : Momma Techhell was never worried about her darling baby boy ever becoming a junkie. Basement dwelling anti-social troll, maybe, but never worried about me becoming a junkie.

Private_Citizen: I'm with you on the needle junky thing. I don't care if injectible drugs feel like farking an angel, I'm not going anywhere near them (even TV depictions squick me out).

 

As I said in earlier posts, needles really don't bother me, BUT I did once watch some television show that had a nurse or doctor working at a hospital who was a junkie, but was trying to avoid needle-tracks. So she injected the heroin between her toes. Watching that squicked me right the fark out.

I'm very lucky in both that needles don't bother me and I don't have any interest in drugs or alcohol. Just to be clear, I am under no illusions that my lack of problems with needles has anything to do with being braver or stronger than anyone else. It's just pure good luck as far as I can tell. In any case, I don't mean to come off as bragging about it like it's something to be proud of. But I am grateful.

Being a type 1 diabetic sucks, but being a type 1 diabetic scared of needles would really, really, REALLY suck.

13 Dec 2012 12:20 PM
scanman61     

MythDragon: enjoy


Yup...that's why I draw my medicine with one needle, then put on a fresh needle to inject.

13 Dec 2012 01:07 PM
HailRobonia     

MythDragon: [sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net image 320x203]
enjoy


Needle used 13 times:

i68.servimg.comView Full Size

13 Dec 2012 01:22 PM
MythDragon     

ciberido: Personally, I was much more worried about the chloroquin than the gamma globulin, myself.


When I first got to Iraq, they had a bunch of us in tent and were talking about handing out chloroquin for anti-malaria. Then they asked which ones of us were pilots. This set off some alarm bells, so I raised my hand and asked "why?". They said pilots arn't allowed to take this stuff. They have to take something else. Well, knowing that the military likes it's pilots, and avoids having to buy a new one when possible, this set off more alarm bells. Again I raised my hand and asked "why?".
"Oh," the guy says "It can...uh...cause some vision loss and other side efects so pilots can't take them".

Again my hand goes up. "Are are we required to take this stuff?" 'Where are you going?' "Baghdad" 'Well, thats not in a high risk zone, so no, but I highly recommend you-' "Okay, thanks!" And I got up and left.

13 Dec 2012 01:23 PM
Brew78     

ciberido:
When I was young I hyperextended my knee. It swelled up like a watermelon and had to be aspirated. Here is a (NSFW) video (GROSS and DISGUSTING) of what it looks like (no it's not me in the video). 


Neat!

Seriously, kinda. I dunno, medical stuff like that doesn't really bother me. I've given blood a ton of times and usually watch when they stick the needle in so I can see how fast I can fill the tube that's attached to the bag.

On the other hand, someone sneezes in my face or pukes on me, you're gonna see a chain reaction so fast and so severe that Chunk would start crying all over again.

13 Dec 2012 01:23 PM
ciberido     

MythDragon: When I first got to Iraq, they had a bunch of us in tent and were talking about handing out chloroquin for anti-malaria. Then they asked which ones of us were pilots. This set off some alarm bells, so I raised my hand and asked "why?". They said pilots arn't allowed to take this stuff. They have to take something else. Well, knowing that the military likes it's pilots, and avoids having to buy a new one when possible, this set off more alarm bells. Again I raised my hand and asked "why?".
"Oh," the guy says "It can...uh...cause some vision loss and other side efects so pilots can't take them".

Again my hand goes up. "Are are we required to take this stuff?" 'Where are you going?' "Baghdad" 'Well, thats not in a high risk zone, so no, but I highly recommend you-' "Okay, thanks!" And I got up and left.


Yes, a lot of the Peace Corps Volunteers wouldn't take their chloroquin, either, for some of the same reasons. Many of the ones who did take it complained of the nightmares. But it was one of those Peace Corps rules that would get you kicked out if you were officially known to be refusing to take it. "Medical noncompliance" I think was the term. So it was one of those open secrets where you'd tell other Volunteers freely, but you wouldn't say anything when the boss was around to overhear.

But I've never been in the military, so I can only guess at how much or how little the two organizations really have in common.

13 Dec 2012 01:45 PM
MythDragon     

ciberido: Yes, a lot of the Peace Corps Volunteers wouldn't take their chloroquin, either, for some of the same reasons...

But I've never been in the military, so I can only guess at how much or how little the two organizations really have in common.


Well, we both seek peace by giving people things. Peace Corps gives people food and water and shiat, and the military give people bullets and cluster bombs. Only we are more effiencent. Instead of showing up in a truck and handing out meals one at a time, we use special purpose built machines to hand out bullets several at a time and to as many people as possible.

13 Dec 2012 03:21 PM
JeffreyScott     

Doom MD: JeffreyScott: If you haven't seen the movie Puncture based on real life events...

The film is based on two young lawyers and a syringe manufacturer who had invented a safety syringe that he was unable to sell. The safety syringe had a retractable needle to prevent accidental sticks. The safety syringe manufacturer filed an antitrust lawsuit against the two largest hospital group purchasing organizations and a large syringe manufacturer claiming he was being shut out of the market. The case was settled 2004 before trial for $150 million.

Despite settling the case and allegedly opening the market so this safety syringe can be sold, and the support from nurses and other medical personnel, the safety syringe has not achieved widespread usage.

While the description of the movie linked above focuses on the attorneys' representing a stuck nurse, one of the real heroes is the inventor of the retractable needle, who refused to sell his invention to sell his invention to big pharm as he knew they would never produce it. He gave up millions to do the right thing. Sadly, even after moving forward with his law suit the needle is still not being used on any large scale.

How expensive was his needle?


It has been awhile since I seen the movie. If I recall correctly, it was minimal, especially when you factored in the costs of treating nurses that contracted Hep, HIV, AIDS and other diseases from accidental sticks.

Watch the movie, you will not be disappointed in the movie. But, you will be disappointed in our medical industry.

13 Dec 2012 04:32 PM
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