So, Canada and Australia are not buying the F35 any time soon.

This may actually be a gift that keeps on giving. I mean, the Canadian price tag went from nine billion to 45 and counting in just five years before they finally pulled the plug. The export sales are always a huge portion of the project plan for lowering the per unit cost. If even your closest allies are not buying, then this may turn out to be one expensive short run program.

gaslight: So, Canada and Australia are not buying the F35 any time soon

You nailed it. The Aussies said to themselves, "it's going to cost WHAT WHAT WHAT???"

I wish we had done the same thing. The Super Hornets are sweet aircraft.

gaslight: So, Canada and Australia are not buying the F35 any time soon.

The F-35 is the F-111 Part Deux, writ large.

Australia's Ministry of Defense is concerned about a capability gap if the increasingly expensive Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning II Joint Strike Fighters are delayed.

Who are the Aussies worried about? Is New Zealand poised to invade?

You forgot blue ringed octopii.

No I hear Tonga is set to invade, need to beef up the air capabilities to combat their navy.

Canada with SU-35 Flankers. That is what I want to see.

Failing that, F-15 Silent Eagles.

Australia hasn't got the balls to cancel the F35 order.

Well hello there Mr Super Spider, you're looking quite good today, have you started working out?

Compliment like that?

They need to go old school and get more supermarines.
/were good enough for them back in the day

Australia I'll tell ya want Bella and I'll tell ya well meh

fusillade762: Australia's Ministry of Defense is concerned about a capability gap if the increasingly expensive Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning II Joint Strike Fighters are delayed.

Who are the Aussies worried about? Is New Zealand poised to invade?

There's a lengthy paper (pdf) on Australian defence policy if you're really interested.

In short they want to be able to deter and defeat armed attacks on Australia and be self reliant in doing so, contribute to security and stability in the South Pacific and East Timor and contribute to military contingencies in the Asia Pacific region in particular and the rest of the world in general. There are things like piracy in the Straits of Malacca and other trade routes important to the country and there's a diminishing fear of a potentially unstable Indonesia. Although as Jakarta continues to bed in democratic reforms, that fear will continue to decline.

They see themselves as a mid-level power and want to project power commensurate with that role.

Well our closest neighbour is the world's most populous Muslim country.

Historically, "Fortress Australia" was the base that the Pacific war was waged from in WW2.

And quite frankly, we like our country here and want to be able to defend it...

bukijin: Well our closest neighbour is the world's most populous Muslim country.

Historically, "Fortress Australia" was the base that the Pacific war was waged from in WW2.

And quite frankly, we like our country here and want to be able to defend it...

Fair enough, though I doubt Indonesia is your country's primary self-defense concern. Australia doesn't need F-18's to repel boat people. More likely, though still very unlikely, is China deciding it needs Lebensraum.

Having the F-18 is like having a good fence...it makes for good neighbors.

bukijin: Well our closest neighbour is the world's most populous Muslim country.

You sound well-informed. Is Indonesia threatening Australia? Specifically how will the F-18s protect Australia against Indonesia?

Still the best plane ever.

tiiger: Canada with SU-35 Flankers. That is what I want to see.

The world sure has changed a lot in the past 20-30 years. America's hat flying Soviet planes. That would be interesting.

Keizer_Ghidorah: [www.fas.org image 850x581]

Still the best plane ever.

Iran? Is that you?

Quantum Apostrophe: Well hello there Mr Super Spider, you're looking quite good today, have you started working out?

Compliment like that?

I see my work here is done.

what they really need are more SPIDER GOATS

The primary role of any defense force is to defend against invasion. Since we are an island, yes, we would be repelling boat people (in the form of amphibious invasion). The F18 gives us the capability to disrupt enemy bases being used as origins of amphibious invasions, to destroy invasion fleets in transit and to maintain air superiority over our territory. We need long-range and multi-role planes.

Is Indonesia a threat now ? No. But we have been involved in military conflicts with Indonesia more than once and no doubt will again in the future. So one would have to classify Indonesia as a potential threat. But there are other potential threats.

Link  to Airpower Australia for those interested. The defense white paper has already been linked to above.

That's not a super hornet.



THIS is a super hornet.

fusillade762: Australia's Ministry of Defense is concerned about a capability gap if the increasingly expensive Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning II Joint Strike Fighters are delayed.

Who are the Aussies worried about? Is New Zealand poised to invade?


You saw what those Ewoks did to those poor defenseless AT-ATs.

Keizer_Ghidorah: [www.fas.org image 850x581]

Still the best plane ever.

Only in grossly homoerotic movies

Gyrfalcon: That's not a super hornet.

[www.honeybeehive.co.uk image 498x449]

THIS is a super hornet.

NUKE IT FROM ORBIT. IT'S THE ONLY WAY TO BE SURE.

What's a Jet Tread without Nose art!:





WTF??????

This is good news. Australia will still buy some of the F-35s but they will be "delayed".

The one aircraft we should have bought was the A-10 Warthog.

fusillade762: Australia's Ministry of Defense is concerned about a capability gap if the increasingly expensive Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning II Joint Strike Fighters are delayed.

Who are the Aussies worried about? Is New Zealand poised to invade?

Is it 1931 or something?

bukijin: Well our closest neighbour is the world's most populous Muslim country.

Historically, "Fortress Australia" was the base that the Pacific war was waged from in WW2.

And quite frankly, we like our country here and want to be able to defend it...

You and I are probably related. My father shtupped in Australia on the way to the war.

Yes....i want us to still get the 72 or so F35's we ordered. Another 24 super hornets? yes please.

cretinbob: Keizer_Ghidorah: [www.fas.org image 850x581]

Still the best plane ever.

Only in grossly deliciously homoerotic movies

gaslight: So, Canada and Australia are not buying the F35 any time soon.

This may actually be a gift that keeps on giving. I mean, the Canadian price tag went from nine billion to 45 and counting in just five years before they finally pulled the plug. The export sales are always a huge portion of the project plan for lowering the per unit cost. If even your closest allies are not buying, then this may turn out to be one expensive short run program.

The price tag has not increased by 500%, period. Plenty of games are being played to make this thing look stupidly expensive compared to previous programs (not to say that it's not expensive). Typically, these things are quoted at their fly-away cost. I am now seeing there total program costs and life time maintance schedule compared to the fly-away cost of Block 60 F-16s.

The F-35 is an outstanding aircraft. The sensor systems alone are among the most complicated things that humans have ever constructed.

Super hornets? How the heck do you tie on capes that small?

mekki: Super hornets? How the heck do you tie on capes that small?

Damn you, I was coming here to make a lame aussie/austria/godwin joke but you...you ruined my train of thought.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmRexWQ hs3M

Lets try this again,
with regards to our super spiders etc
Link

Aussie Air Force pilots get to take their women with them according to article at bottom of mobile site... Some mighty fine growlers they have now:-)

tiiger: Canada with SU-35 Flankers. That is what I want to see.

Failing that, F-15 Silent Eagles.

To be honest, I'm surprised that more Western countries haven't done that.

Dang.

I was hoping they were getting white-faced hornets. I had a huge nest outside my back door. There had been a few mild winters in a row, no intense cold periods, so the imported European yellow jackets were dense. My back yard was the only one in the neighborhood you could have a picnic at, and I watched out the window as they brought in yellow jacket after yellow jacket after yellow jacket in a steady procession.

b2theory: The F-35 is an outstanding aircraft. The sensor systems alone are among the most complicated things that humans have ever constructed.

That's a really important design goal. Complicated is always more better.

jaytkay: bukijin: Well our closest neighbour is the world's most populous Muslim country.

You sound well-informed. Is Indonesia threatening Australia? Specifically how will the F-18s protect Australia against Indonesia?

The original intent was to have the ability to bomb targets in Djakarta if needed. With the end of the F-111, this was to fall to the F-18s, but the problem is that they don't have the range to fly there and back without refuelling, making them vulnerable to the Indonesian air defences. It remains to be seen if that is also a problem with the Super Hornet.

They should have just saved up Pepsi points

jaytkay: bukijin: Well our closest neighbour is the world's most populous Muslim country.

You sound well-informed. Is Indonesia threatening Australia? Specifically how will the F-18s protect Australia against Indonesia?

During the UN mission in East Timor some years back RAAF F-111s sat on the ground bombed up and ready for counter-attacks after Indonesian aircraft buzzed Australian deployments and their submarines were making aggressive moves towards our navy. F-18s would have escorted them.

Since the 111s were mothballed hat attack role would now fall to the F-18s (Supers and Classics).

Mantour What's a Jet Tread without Nose art!:

Wow, that's crap nose art. Even the briefing time homage is badly done.

Canberra is my home airport. Always amuses me that the ads throughout the terminal are for impulse buys like F-35s and defence industry heavies.

Nutsac_Jim: fusillade762: Australia's Ministry of Defense is concerned about a capability gap if the increasingly expensive Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning II Joint Strike Fighters are delayed.

Who are the Aussies worried about? Is New Zealand poised to invade?

Is it 1931 or something?

They are just trying to compensate for something, Like this Aussie

NSFW Lyrics. But still hilarious.

F-18's a good plane. Hope we can make the sale. F-35 is a boondoggle destined for the chopping block when sequestration hits.

ShonenBat: F-18's a good plane. Hope we can make the sale. F-35 is a boondoggle destined for the chopping block when sequestration hits.

Sequestration's not going to hit. The whole fiscal cliff was a piece of idiocy dreamed up by teabaggers who would rather send the country into default than let Obama run things. Here's what's going to happen: They'll pass a bill on Dec. 31 so that the Bush tax cuts will expire on only the two upper tiers, and the sequestration cuts will be reduced to some token amount. Then the teabaggers will try to hold their breath until they turn blue on the debt ceiling, and Obama will figure out a way to avoid defaulting on the debt through executive action.

Jarhead_h: tiiger: Canada with SU-35 Flankers. That is what I want to see.

Failing that, F-15 Silent Eagles.

To be honest, I'm surprised that more Western countries haven't done that.

It has worked out well for India so far. I understand the logistical and political difficulties of buying from the former Eastern Block, but the F-35, a single engine strike bomber, is not the aircraft for Canada. A plane that works well in hostile and cold environments, carries a ton of fuel, an incredible weapons load, and is an equal to almost any aircraft in the sky (Even perhaps to the F-22), is what Canada would need, and the SU-35 / Flanker series hits all those points. Failing that, the F-15SE is another great choice for a Canadian Fighter plane. The Growth Hornet would be the cheapest but least capable of the three, but still superior to the F-35 for Canada's mission.

waste of money all the way around nobody is attacking canada or australia so why do we need 35 billion dollar jets? buy or make long range ballistic missiles and medium range guided missiles and a some stealth drones for guiding them it makes the whole jet thing pointless