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   Massachusetts may spend nearly a billion dollars on equipment to stop trains before they crash into each other, because hiring drivers who stay awake is too hard

24 Dec 2012 01:19 PM   |   3469 clicks   |   Boston.com
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Bontesla     
Subby is a twatwaffle.

24 Dec 2012 09:24 AM
St_Francis_P     

Bontesla: Subby is a twatwaffle.


Has to be a troll/joke/whatever.

24 Dec 2012 09:37 AM
itsdan    [TotalFark]  

St_Francis_P: Has to be a troll/joke/whatever.


On Fark? Absurd.

24 Dec 2012 09:41 AM
St_Francis_P     

itsdan: St_Francis_P: Has to be a troll/joke/whatever.

On Fark? Absurd.


There's a first time for everything. This thread might be a landmark in Fark history.

24 Dec 2012 09:42 AM
cman     

24 Dec 2012 09:57 AM
kxs401    [TotalFark]  
I like how a thoughtful article on how to best allocate limited resources turns into a stupid-as-sh*t troll headline. Oh Fark, you rascal!

24 Dec 2012 10:17 AM
SnarfVader     
The T estimates it would cost $645 million to $721 million and require nine years to design, install, and test a modern collision avoidance-system for the Green Line.

I'd be more concerned with the bolded item. Wow. Portland tunneled through several miles of solid rock and built the entire west side line in less time than that.

24 Dec 2012 10:18 AM
ThatGuyFromTheInternet     

SnarfVader: The T estimates it would cost $645 million to $721 million and require nine years to design, install, and test a modern collision avoidance-system for the Green Line.

I'd be more concerned with the bolded item. Wow. Portland tunneled through several miles of solid rock and built the entire west side line in less time than that.


YKHIK you don't witness Massachusetts state government?

24 Dec 2012 10:21 AM
SnarfVader     

ThatGuyFromTheInternet: SnarfVader: The T estimates it would cost $645 million to $721 million and require nine years to design, install, and test a modern collision avoidance-system for the Green Line.

I'd be more concerned with the bolded item. Wow. Portland tunneled through several miles of solid rock and built the entire west side line in less time than that.

YKHIK you don't witness Massachusetts state government?


You got me there.

24 Dec 2012 10:22 AM
jaylectricity    [TotalFark]  
Wow, a bunch of idiots to start this thread. This technology will allow drivers to text their families during the holiday season.

24 Dec 2012 10:25 AM
St_Francis_P     

jaylectricity: Wow, a bunch of idiots to start this thread. This technology will allow drivers to text their families during the holiday season.


How will they do that if they're asleep?

24 Dec 2012 10:38 AM
NewportBarGuy    [TotalFark]  
Considering that this is Mass. I'm going to substitute "stay awake" with "remain sober".

24 Dec 2012 10:51 AM
St_Francis_P     

NewportBarGuy: Considering that this is Mass. I'm going to substitute "stay awake" with "remain sober".


Pretty much true anywhere.

24 Dec 2012 10:55 AM
wambu     
I suppose some politician's nephew runs a train equipment business.

24 Dec 2012 10:58 AM
FriarReb98    [TotalFark]  
It has occurred to me that, even if you're on the Green Line, which (for the not-from-here types) is the line that is mostly *above* ground going down the middle of streets, driving T trains must be a really boring job.  I mean, your entire job is replicating the scene from National Lampoon's European Vacationover and over again, just in a place you're completely used to and probably not in the least interested in.  Plus, it's on rail, so you're doing even less work to keep it going straight.  Just speed up, slow down, wait for the drunk college kids who have one foot in the doorway yelling at their friends who are still drinking at the bar.

24 Dec 2012 10:59 AM
Nothing To See Here     
www.nbvillage.comView Full Size

24 Dec 2012 11:33 AM
NewportBarGuy    [TotalFark]  

St_Francis_P: NewportBarGuy: Considering that this is Mass. I'm going to substitute "stay awake" with "remain sober".

Pretty much true anywhere.


Well, at least in NYC they have the sense to take a swig off the sterno, hit off the crack pipe, slap another mark on the side of the train and run right over those bums on the track.

They mix a depressant with a stimulant. Those are true professionals.

24 Dec 2012 11:41 AM
St_Francis_P     

NewportBarGuy: St_Francis_P: NewportBarGuy: Considering that this is Mass. I'm going to substitute "stay awake" with "remain sober".

Pretty much true anywhere.

Well, at least in NYC they have the sense to take a swig off the sterno, hit off the crack pipe, slap another mark on the side of the train and run right over those bums on the track.

They mix a depressant with a stimulant. Those are true professionals.


Sir, I...my hat is off to them.

24 Dec 2012 11:46 AM
BSABSVR     

kxs401: I like how a thoughtful article on how to best allocate limited resources turns into a stupid-as-sh*t troll headline. Oh Fark, you rascal!


I've yet to see an interesting article that wasn't tainted with a hot, moist turd of a headline.

24 Dec 2012 12:29 PM
tenpoundsofcheese     
easier to spend $1B than to create new union rules

24 Dec 2012 01:03 PM
MFAWG     

BSABSVR: kxs401: I like how a thoughtful article on how to best allocate limited resources turns into a stupid-as-sh*t troll headline. Oh Fark, you rascal!

I've yet to see an interesting article that wasn't tainted with a hot, moist turd of a headline.


Welcome to Fark

24 Dec 2012 01:29 PM
WordsnCollision     
www.robertstrains.comView Full Size


/DOH!

24 Dec 2012 01:34 PM
Callous    [TotalFark]  
The T estimates it would cost $645 million to $721 million and require nine years to design, install, and test a modern collision avoidance-system for the Green Line.

And with the accuracy that they estimated the time and cost of the "Big Big" I'm gonna guess it will actually take closer to 20 years and cost around $5 Billion.

24 Dec 2012 01:40 PM
jjorsett     
Google has developed self-driving vehicles that can operate on the open streets. Operating a train in the controlled environment of a rail system ought to be even easier. How about we eliminate the human element entirely and not just avoid collisions, but have computers control the whole damn train from beginning of journey to end? If we simply can't bear to do without a human, we can prop up some union drunk in the cabin with a single control button available: STOP. At least he wouldn't be able to crash the train like today.

24 Dec 2012 01:41 PM
Bit'O'Gristle     
I applied to a railroad a few years ago, and the old engineer i talked to told me, and showed me a few things. Kinda went like this.


Me "Ya, I'm here to apply to the Acme railroad"

Old union RR worker "Hmmmm...boy, you need to see a few things"

He walked me over to a wall that had dozens of cool pictures in black and white of groups of union railroad workers doing their jobs, by the trains, on the trains, in various group and single poses. With dates. Was very cool to see. There was pictures of dozens of guys working right outside the very building i was standing in.

Me "Ya....THATS what I'm talking about...that..that is what i want to be a part of!!" Grins happily.

Old union guy smiles sadly "come..look out back"

He walked me through the building, and i only saw a few old guys there. No young blood. We walked out the back door to the rail /switching yard, and he pointed out the area, and said "Look around son, what do you see?"

I stood by this old union RR worker, who looked as if his face had been carved by the wind and untold seasons of harsh winter and sun, and looked out over the yard. I saw....a few trains sitting still, empty cars, and no workers. None. Not one. i was about to ask...where are the workers? The engineers, the guys who ride in the cabooses and wave those old cool lanterns? Where are the guys that link up the trains? Or the guys who unlock and change the direction of the tracks? Then i saw, that there were little mechanical boxes on each switch, and that they had taken the place of a worker who would manually switch the direction of the oncoming train. There were no cabooses. Not one.

I looked over at the old guy, and i could swear that there was a tear in his eye. This is what he said to me, and i will never forget it.

"Young man, it's not like it used to be here. Past days, long since gone, there were hundreds of guys here, working, being friends, doing mans work for a honest wage and a good life for their families. Now, there are very few of us left. The new management has seen to it that most things are automated, and most of us have been replaced by computers, and sensors." He gave a short sigh at that point ,and pulled out a old rag from his pocket and wiped his eyes. Stuffing his rag back the back pocket of his old railroad outfit (yes. he was wearing an old rr cap too) he continued...

"I don't know what to tell you son, but that it seems to be winding down. The days of a strong union and company that cares, a sense of family here, and looking forward to coming to work and seeing all my friends, and doing a honest day's work. Now you have to have a degree in engineering to even look at a engine, and we haven't hired a man to work switches in years. i wish i could tell you i could sign you up, i do, but i wont lie to you, or blow sunshine up your ass. I have nothing for you son, and I can't imagine i ever will. I have had a good life with my job, and given a good life to my family, as any man wants to do, so i can't complain. But i guess it's not your time son, here. If it ever will be."

I actually felt more sad for the guy than i did myself, as he saw his way of life wind down, and the great place he worked at fall into disrepair, and his union membership decline to a sad fraction of what it was, only a few friends left at the station to remind him of how things used to be. I extended my hand out to him, and he gave me one of those old man shakes, not tying to crush my hand, but you could tell from the feel of it with all the callouses and strength, that he could have if he wanted to. He wished me luck, and i went on to the next place, but i'll never forget him, it was one of those touching moments in life that sneak up on you and smack your heart around a bit. Anyway, done now. And i know..csb.

24 Dec 2012 01:45 PM
russlar     
Did they ever make it so the BC/BU stops actually had to pay a fare?

24 Dec 2012 01:48 PM
mrlewish     
I have an idea. Instead of just getting rid of the driver how about we get rid of the commuters also? I mean we could fire you all and just hire telecommuters from India. That way there would be no need to run trains at all.

24 Dec 2012 01:50 PM
Fark Rye For Many Whores     

SnarfVader: The T estimates it would cost $645 million to $721 million and require nine years to design, install, and test a modern collision avoidance-system for the Green Line.

I'd be more concerned with the bolded item. Wow. Portland tunneled through several miles of solid rock and built the entire west side line in less time than that.


In Boston? I'm sure this will be
pinkunderbelly.files.wordpress.comView Full Size

early, under budget, and
www1.whdh.comView Full Size

triple reinforced.

24 Dec 2012 01:53 PM
pudgyv     
Shiat! I coulda made a fortune.

/retired, MBTA Signal Department.

24 Dec 2012 01:55 PM
Bomb Head Mohammed     
ATS/ATC systems have been a fact of life in many places in the world for decades. Why exactly can't boston buy/implement an OTS one from, say, Japan, at less than 1/20th of the price?

Oh ya, NIH the broken windows theory of job creation. I forgot.

24 Dec 2012 01:57 PM
keithgabryelski    [TotalFark]  
how is this headline a troll?  the MBTA will be spending nearly a billion on designing and implementing safety features over ten years because of a recent set of accidents which were mainly caused by bad driving.

I'd rather have that money applied to more trains on the green line -- having seen for 20 years how absolutely messy this line is during rush hours.
(and that doesn't include game days which are RIDICULOUS)

then I'd like to see them add location information to the damn green line so I can predict my travel time.

AND I'd like them to stop requiring people get out at the front of the damn train on outdoor stops -- it's farking ludicrous how much time is wasted with this procedure.

and, yeah -- i'd like them to extend the train schedule to 3am so there are less drunks on the road

and that doesn't even get in to extending the damn line in ways other than the butt-fark they gave to dorchester with "the silver line" -- yeah, those minorities won't know the difference between a train and farking silver bus.

/not subby
//the mbta is a piece of shiat

24 Dec 2012 01:59 PM
Prey4reign    [TotalFark]  
Massachusetts may spend nearly a billion dollars on equipment to stop trains before they crash into each other, because hiring drivers who stay awake is too hard.

Not to mention having drivers who don't have medical problems.

24 Dec 2012 01:59 PM
keithgabryelski    [TotalFark]  

russlar: Did they ever make it so the BC/BU stops actually had to pay a fare?


The B and C lines (for as long as I have seen) have had people pay.

The D line did not require payment from Fenway outward (but all stops going inward must pay).  that ended a few years ago when they installed the new charlie system

24 Dec 2012 02:03 PM
keithgabryelski    [TotalFark]  

FriarReb98: It has occurred to me that, even if you're on the Green Line, which (for the not-from-here types) is the line that is mostly *above* ground going down the middle of streets, driving T trains must be a really boring job.  I mean, your entire job is replicating the scene from National Lampoon's European Vacationover and over again, just in a place you're completely used to and probably not in the least interested in.  Plus, it's on rail, so you're doing even less work to keep it going straight.  Just speed up, slow down, wait for the drunk college kids who have one foot in the doorway yelling at their friends who are still drinking at the bar.


From a T operator friend of mine.  Driving a route once is fine -- if you do it three times (outward and inward) in a day you are ready to fall asleep by the end of the ride.

The T recently reduced the number of drivers they have -- THAT is the problem.

24 Dec 2012 02:09 PM
topcon     
The system, called Saf T Train, has a series of loudspeakers that says "STOP THE CAH! STOP THE CAH!" at 175 decibels until the offending trains slow down.

24 Dec 2012 02:12 PM
ActionJoe     
The T will never recover. The Big Dig debt they have will never be paid off and will always cripple any new project the T comes up with. The other big problem with the T is their work force. I have never met a T worker who liked their job or did anything to make service better. Upper management just tends to be useless although some have tried to fix things. But man, for a group of workers who get paid pretty nicely they will gladly whine and complain for more money and time off while not even doing their job that well and with few penalties for messing up.

24 Dec 2012 02:14 PM
StopLurkListen     
Trains should need operators like elevators need operators.

Trains = horizontal elevators.

You want a human official on board to provide safety? No problem with that -- an operator in a control booth won't be as effective as an officer that can patrol.

24 Dec 2012 02:15 PM
keithgabryelski    [TotalFark]  

StopLurkListen: Trains should need operators like elevators need operators.

Trains = horizontal elevators.

You want a human official on board to provide safety? No problem with that -- an operator in a control booth won't be as effective as an officer that can patrol.


well, except that an elevator shaft never has cross traffic nor a fallen tree

24 Dec 2012 02:21 PM
studebaker hoch     
Positive Idiot Control.

24 Dec 2012 02:27 PM
Skarekrough     

keithgabryelski: how is this headline a troll?  the MBTA will be spending nearly a billion on designing and implementing safety features over ten years because of a recent set of accidents which were mainly caused by bad driving.


Because every major subway system in America already has this technology in place already.

This isn't any new technology. It should come under the heading of basic maintenance and improvement.

24 Dec 2012 02:28 PM
MisterTweak    [TotalFark]  
Why all the restrictions, when clearly more guns would solve the problem?

24 Dec 2012 02:29 PM
AgentKGB     

topcon: The system, called Saf T Train, has a series of loudspeakers that says "STOP THE CAH! STOP THE CAH!" at 175 decibels until the offending trains slow down.


SAF-T-Rider! (Obligatory)

24 Dec 2012 02:30 PM
keithgabryelski    [TotalFark]  

Skarekrough: keithgabryelski: how is this headline a troll?  the MBTA will be spending nearly a billion on designing and implementing safety features over ten years because of a recent set of accidents which were mainly caused by bad driving.

Because every major subway system in America already has this technology in place already.

This isn't any new technology. It should come under the heading of basic maintenance and improvement.


Sure, I agree it is a long time coming (as are many changes to this, the oldest subway system in america).

24 Dec 2012 02:31 PM
bmihura     

SnarfVader: The T estimates it would cost $645 million to $721 million and require nine years to design, install, and test a modern collision avoidance-system for the Green Line.


The Empire State Building was done in 14 months.

Nine years? Come on Boston, even you are not THAT retarded.

24 Dec 2012 02:34 PM
Enigmamf    [TotalFark]  
I thought positive train control was already supposed to be mandatory by 2016?

24 Dec 2012 02:35 PM
bmihura     
Forgot one detail:

The Empire State Building, although completed in 14 months instead of 19 years, was NOT equipped with a modern collision avoidance system.

Otherwise that careless building would not have collided into this poor innocent B-25.

24 Dec 2012 02:38 PM
Enigmamf    [TotalFark]  
The T estimates it would cost $645 million to $721 million and require nine years to design, install, and test a modern collision avoidance-system for the Green Line.

I bet they're bidding to build their own system, like CalTrain wants to do with CBOSS. There are a lot of good arguments to use off-the-shelf systems like ERTMS.

24 Dec 2012 02:41 PM
bonobo73     

jjorsett: Google has developed self-driving vehicles that can operate on the open streets. Operating a train in the controlled environment of a rail system ought to be even easier. How about we eliminate the human element entirely and not just avoid collisions, but have computers control the whole damn train from beginning of journey to end? If we simply can't bear to do without a human, we can prop up some union drunk in the cabin with a single control button available: STOP. At least he wouldn't be able to crash the train like today.


THIS.

At this point if computers and sensors can do it better, then automate it.

Anyone who wants to argue otherwise, feel free to respond on a computer with a handmade CPU.

24 Dec 2012 02:46 PM
Gyrfalcon    [TotalFark]  
I was kind of puzzled by this little comment:

or miss track signals that look like traffic lights.

Wouldn't it be cheaper and easier to make train signals that look less like traffic lights?

24 Dec 2012 02:48 PM
Ed Finnerty     
If trains had guns, this never woul...

Sorry. Force of habit.

24 Dec 2012 02:51 PM
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