So, what did the managers want him to do? Or am I missing something?

The managers just want him to hand over the money & not do anything but hope that the thugs don't hurt him. If he were to hurt one of them then they (the robbers) might sue Pizza Hut because of emotional distress or some such nonsense. If he (the driver) were to get hurt himself, well worker's comp may go up a bit but he'd be easy to replace.

Sadly it is a very common thought process. In addition to delivery drivers, many (most?) corporate owned gas stations/convenience stores will fire their clerks if they use any sort of weapon to defend themselves in a robbery. It rarely makes waves here on Fark just because it IS so common.

What exactly do you demote a delivery driver to?

Pud: What exactly do you demote a delivery driver to?

Anchovy can opener.

Is this really any different than any other corporate policy on the books telling employees not to "be a hero" when it comes to being robbed/stopping shoplifters? Major liabilities for them are abound if you try to stop them, and we've seen enough stories about people getting fired here for doing just that. It's an unfortunate situation, but people need to know the company is more than likely *not* to take their side in a situation like this.

DanZero: Is this really any different than any other corporate policy on the books telling employees not to "be a hero" when it comes to being robbed/stopping shoplifters? Major liabilities for them are abound if you try to stop them, and we've seen enough stories about people getting fired here for doing just that. It's an unfortunate situation, but people need to know the company is more than likely *not* to take their side in a situation like this.

We should change the law, then.

For a corporate chain? Hells yeah take everything insurance has got their back.

But for personal property or your person? There's no reason you shouldn't be allowed to shoot someone dead if they try to rob you personally or harm you in any way, regardless of if you are currently working or not. I'm not saying pizza guys should pack heat, but the passenger seat is called "shotgun" for a reason.

the corporate policy at the grocery store I work at is that you try to detain shoplifters until police arive unless they have a weapon, then you do everying thing you can to get them out of the store as quickly as possible with no injuries to workers or shoppers. Also amended a few years back to include not following robbers/shoplifters once they are out of the store because a manager got a kife to the gut trying to get a guy's license plate number

Pud: What exactly do you demote a delivery driver to?

Came to ask the exact same question

/there's a position lower than that?
//yikes

No subby, he was demoted for carrying a weapon.

JasonGriffee: So, what did the managers want him to do? Or am I missing something?

Something that couldn't get them sued or make their insurance rates go up.

JasonGriffee: So, what did the managers want him to do?

NOT carry a weapon

Or am I missing something?
Yes, this wasn't about defending himself, it was about having a weapon.

MaudlinMutantMollusk: Pud: What exactly do you demote a delivery driver to?

Came to ask the exact same question

/there's a position lower than that?
//yikes

Customer?

How much would it suck to have to actually eat that crap?

This reminds me of that lifeguard bullshiat story

/my money is on that they would have fired him for giving the 'za and the cash away if that was the path he so choose

I am assuming they were Urban Youth. He committed a racist act and should be fired.

JasonGriffee: So, what did the managers want him to do? Or am I missing something?

Most retail jobs like that would rather you give up the money or product than anything else.

Clearly the answer is move to Florida.

JasonGriffee: So, what did the managers want him to do? Or am I missing something?

They wanted him to not carry weapons in the car. That he defended himself wasn't the problem, it was the weapon he brought with him for that purpose.

(I assume the only legit reason to carry a half tentpole in a Pizzahut car is as a weapon, although it sounds like a sucky weapon).

This is the company that fired me (and other drivers) right before reaching 200 Accident Free Hours driving. At the time, anyway, the 200 AFH mark was supposed to earn a raise. They couldn't have that, so....

MaudlinMutantMollusk: Pud: What exactly do you demote a delivery driver to?

Came to ask the exact same question

/there's a position lower than that?
//yikes

Pecking order

/there's the delivery guy, the dirt, the worms inside of the dirt, Popo's stool, Kami, then Popo

The PH facebook page posts "Rule 7 - never ever ever use a fork to eat chicken wings"

I suggested that never ever carry a fork when delivering pizzas.   It's not only ineffective against a knife, but you can get fired for it.

spawn73: JasonGriffee: So, what did the managers want him to do? Or am I missing something?

They wanted him to not carry weapons in the car. That he defended himself wasn't the problem, it was the weapon he brought with him for that purpose.

(I assume the only legit reason to carry a half tentpole in a Pizzahut car is as a weapon, although it sounds like a sucky weapon).

Collapsible metal baton is the only way to go.

Pud: What exactly do you demote a delivery driver to?

Came for this.

Self defense is a Right. You are allowed to use the force necessary to stop the attack from continuing.

Women have murdered their rapist to stop the attack and most of them have gone free depending on whether the Judge likes rape or not.

People have even not been charged when defending themselves against the police attacking them without just cause(excessive force).

/Still not legal to go down to the U.S. congress and kick Boehner in the nutsack for his parties attack on people.

//Pizza dude could make a few grand due to the corporate policy of being killed in the name of policy. "Hey muggers, you can beat the shiat out of our employees and they will just stand there and take it like a good little sheeple".

MaudlinMutantMollusk: Pud: What exactly do you demote a delivery driver to?

Came to ask the exact same question

/there's a position lower than that?
//yikes

If only there were a handy link to an article that would answer your question.

Wait he got demoted? Send a news crew.

Pud: What exactly do you demote a delivery driver to?

Taster. It is Pizza Hut after all.

I used to carry a bat and glove when I was delivering. Never had to use it thankfully.

I did deliver to a Bee Gee and Kevin VonErick once. His wife was as hot as they come.

sheep snorter: People have even not been charged when defending themselves against the police attacking them without just cause(excessive force).

Source?

Demoted for "violating a company policy on carrying weapons".
A tent pole? Seriously?
What if he had used a snow brush/ice scraper? Would that be a prohibited weapon not allowed to be in cars of Pizza Hut delivery drivers?

JasonGriffee: So, what did the managers want him to do? Or am I missing something?

This. "Demote" a pizza driver?

And the five teens? Are they OK?

titwrench: spawn73: JasonGriffee: So, what did the managers want him to do? Or am I missing something?

They wanted him to not carry weapons in the car. That he defended himself wasn't the problem, it was the weapon he brought with him for that purpose.

(I assume the only legit reason to carry a half tentpole in a Pizzahut car is as a weapon, although it sounds like a sucky weapon).

Collapsible metal baton is the only way to go.

I'm in the sca and regularly have a shield or rattan stick lying in the backseat our trunk

/lucky for many people that I've yet to get road rage
//unlucky for the idiot who will give me a reason to use it defensively

"Sam Swicegood was attacked on December 17th by a group of five teens... "

"Teens", you say?

Recoil Therapy: The managers just want him to hand over the money & not do anything but hope that the thugs don't hurt him. If he were to hurt one of them then they (the robbers) might sue Pizza Hut because of emotional distress or some such nonsense. If he (the driver) were to get hurt himself, well worker's comp may go up a bit but he'd be easy to replace.

Sadly it is a very common thought process. In addition to delivery drivers, many (most?) corporate owned gas stations/convenience stores will fire their clerks if they use any sort of weapon to defend themselves in a robbery. It rarely makes waves here on Fark just because it IS so common.

As for these draconian policies, all I have to say is this:

"Be a farking person!"
- Jon Stewart

Seriously, this guy was obviously scared for his farking life, and as opposed to helping him out, they kick him in the balls!  FU Pizza Hut, FU in the ass!  I would like to see what one of these corporate HR drones would do in that very situation (aside from piss themselves).  What do they expect him to do?  Lay back and take it?

At least it wasn't late... You do NOT want to upset Uncle Enzo...

tenpoundsofcheese: JasonGriffee: So, what did the managers want him to do?

NOT carry a weapon

Or am I missing something?
Yes, this wasn't about defending himself, it was about having a weapon.

Sure, if you call a tent pole a weapon. It was only a "weapon" because he was defending himself with it.

The My Little Pony Killer:sheep snorter: People have even not been charged when defending themselves against the police attacking them without just cause(excessive force).


Even if there were just ONE TIME when this happened I'd like to see the source article on THAT.

google is a nice source.

/Also many a victim stupidly signs a confidentiality agreement to keep it out of the news cycle.
//Take 15 grand now or be forever in court to get pennies on the dollar.

tenpoundsofcheese: JasonGriffee: So, what did the managers want him to do?

NOT carry a weapon

Or am I missing something?
Yes, this wasn't about defending himself, it was about having a weapon.

He had a tent pole. Not a Glock.

In the right situations, threatening cardboard cuts (way worse than paper cuts) from the boxes the pizza is in could make those boxes a weapon.

The point is, when someone is threatened, just about anything could be used as a weapon. Pizza Hut is idiotic in the way they're handling this. Demote him for standing up for himself instead of just handing over the money and pizza, don't demote him for picking the first random thing in his car and calling it a weapon. Because hell, by that loose definition I have hundreds of weapons in my car. The bad guys better watch out!

tenpoundsofcheese: JasonGriffee: So, what did the managers want him to do?

NOT carry a weapon

Or am I missing something?
Yes, this wasn't about defending himself, it was about having a weapon.

no where in either story I read talks about him keeping the tent pole as a weapon.

spawn73: JasonGriffee: So, what did the managers want him to do? Or am I missing something?

They wanted him to not carry weapons in the car. That he defended himself wasn't the problem, it was the weapon he brought with him for that purpose.

(I assume the only legit reason to carry a half tentpole in a Pizzahut car is as a weapon, although it sounds like a sucky weapon).

The backseat of my car is the repository of all things kid-related. If my kid was super active in scouting, I would probably be able to find most of the parts of a tent back there. And if, I drive up to an intersection and an incident of attempted thuggery were to occur, I most definitely would be able to improvise a weapon out of the debris in my car. And my standard response to any question is "I panicked, because I was in fear of my life. I didn't know that a (insert noun here) could do that much damage to a person."

Oh Pizza Hut. My husband worked there when we were very young. How do they consider a tent pole a weapon? Because he brandished it? So if he threw hot pizza at them, would that be a weapon too? Just handing over food and cash isn't always going to do it. We had a delivery driver hand over everything and they still knocked him down and kicked the crap out of him. I had pepper spray when I used to deliver for Little Ceasar's. No min wage job is worth that shiat.

Pud: What exactly do you demote a delivery driver to?

AFTER tax and fuel, some drivers can make 700 to 850 a week take home.
/been there..done that

NOTICE:
Driver is unarmed, and carries cash

MrBallou: Pud: What exactly do you demote a delivery driver to?

Anchovy can opener.

Cheese boy.

Pud: What exactly do you demote a delivery driver to?

Hey, delivery driver is a good job for a pizza place compared to kitchen staff or wait staff. You're not farking around with dough or chopping vegetables or washing dishes. You're driving around in your car, listening to your music, without someone constantly supervising you. And you get tips.

lmxloco: In the right situations, threatening cardboard cuts (way worse than paper cuts) from the boxes the pizza is in could make those boxes a weapon.

The point is, when someone is threatened, just about anything could be used as a weapon. Pizza Hut is idiotic in the way they're handling this. Demote him for standing up for himself instead of just handing over the money and pizza, don't demote him for picking the first random thing in his car and calling it a weapon. Because hell, by that loose definition I have hundreds of weapons in my car. The bad guys better watch out!

Yeah, you use any object to defend yourself, it's considered a weapon. You punch someone in the face, you get charged with assault. You punch them with your travel mug, it's assault with a weapon according to police.

Because, as everyone knows, the good of the corporation outweighs the good of the individual.

Interesting if you think about it. The corporation is legally a person. A person whose rights the laws and rules favor over the rights of the employee who is another person.

One person has more value than the other person.

Amazing what money can do.

JasonGriffee: So, what did the managers want him to do? Or am I missing something?

"We expect you to DIE Mr. Swicegood!"