Comments

  • Boeing hints in financial documents at the end of 747 production in two years

    Probably closer to reality
  • Sad but not unexpected.

    The only real surprise is that airlines are willing to run more aircraft, meaning more labor costs, in order to compete with each other on flexibility.

    That said, labor costs are probably less volatile than fuel costs.  Wages for various types of staff don't drastically swing up or down.  Additionally that flexibility that also allows for discontinuing unpopular flights on a given route without giving up the whole route, so that individual flights are much closer to being filled to capacity.  If the newer aircraft models are incredibly fuel efficient compared to older models, then during fuel price spikes this might mean much lower operating costs compared to the high passenger count planes.
  • puffy999: Boeing hints in financial documents at the end of 747 production in two years

    Probably closer to reality


    They have far, far too many cost-plus government contracts to go away.  Hell, SLS and Orion are legally required to be used for certain NASA mission profiles, they can keep milking that for years.
  • TWX: puffy999: Boeing hints in financial documents at the end of 747 production in two years

    Probably closer to reality

    They have far, far too many cost-plus government contracts to go away.  Hell, SLS and Orion are legally required to be used for certain NASA mission profiles, they can keep milking that for years.


    True. I was thinking more about the commercial industry.

    Of course I wasn't serious because we all know the government will bail them out.
  • Only five airlines still have them in service, better plan a trip to Seoul or London. The 747 and 787 are the only two 7n7 I've not flown on yet
  • i'm running out of time to check a big one off my bucket list: drunkenly fall down a 747 staircase

    lh3.googleusercontent.comView Full Size
  • crinz83: i'm running out of time to check a big one off my bucket list: drunkenly fall down a 747 staircase

    [lh3.googleusercontent.com image 507x400]


    There's hope; maybe one of the museums that feature 747s has a staircase.
  • whither_apophis: Only five airlines still have them in service, better plan a trip to Seoul or London. The 747 and 787 are the only two 7n7 I've not flown on yet


    Have you been on a 707?

    /747 yuge, 787 meh
    // I think for me it's 707 and 767 I need to get on...
    ///couple decades too late
    IV/ they're still making the 747!?
  • crinz83: i'm running out of time to check a big one off my bucket list: drunkenly fall down a 747 staircase

    [lh3.googleusercontent.com image 507x400]


    I missed a step and stumbled down a step or two out of general clumsiness. At the time I had had a tiny bottle of prosecco as it was New Year's.

    Does this count as fulfilling that dream? I feel like it might sneak in under the bar as the least-possible version of it.
  • CSB:

    I've flown first class on British Airways 747s, and after some conversations with the FAs, I quickly learned that they love working on that plane.

    /Once sat in the first row on the lower deck.
    //So I was closer to the nose than the pilots.
  • TWX: puffy999: Boeing hints in financial documents at the end of 747 production in two years

    Probably closer to reality

    They have far, far too many cost-plus government contracts to go away.  Hell, SLS and Orion are legally required to be used for certain NASA mission profiles, they can keep milking that for years.


    They just built a brand new F-15 factory.  The Pentagon is taking delivery starting in 2021.
  • Sonnuvah: crinz83: i'm running out of time to check a big one off my bucket list: drunkenly fall down a 747 staircase

    [lh3.googleusercontent.com image 507x400]

    There's hope; maybe one of the museums that feature 747s has a staircase.


    well you could also try the water slide:

    upload.wikimedia.orgView Full Size
  • The_Sponge: CSB:

    I've flown first class on British Airways 747s, and after some conversations with the FAs, I quickly learned that they love working on that plane.

    /Once sat in the first row on the lower deck.
    //So I was closer to the nose than the pilots.


    I've flown that twice, and 4 or so other times with other airlines. There really is nothing flying today that compares with the front nose section of the 747. The upper deck ranks second. Nothing else comes close.

    I'm going to miss those birds.
  • Flew on 747s back in 2015. They are ENORMOUS. Maybe one day I'll get to ride on the A380.
  • This was known a few months ago. A key supplier for Boeing that makes fuselage components had wrapped up production for the last jumbos ordered, and the parts were shipped. The fuselage components are warehoused at Boeing for later assembly. This supplier then sold off the tooling as scrap for pennies on the dollar, meaning if Boeing wanted to continue producing 747s after the last jets on order for UPS they would have to spend the dollars to start up another supplier of fuselage parts (or build them in-house).

    Airbus lots tons of money on the A380 because it was too big and airlines other than Emirates were unwilling to make changes to their route structure to use it properly. Emirates does it OK because of their unique hub-and-spoke model as a transit point (DBX) for a large part of the world.

    I don't know if Boeing lost much money on the 747-8 upgrades. It wasn't a huge overhaul of the jet, so maybe they broke even. I assume Boeing also viewed it as an investment to keep the assembly line open long enough to win the bid on the replacement Air Force One.

    These two planes (A380 and 747-8) were almost like the DC-10 and L-1011 rivalry in the 70s and 80s. Two companies built trijets, and neither of them seized enough of the market to turn a profit. Both jets failed. I think Boeing would have been more successful if the A380 hadn't been built and maybe we'd see the 747-8 continue for another decade. My opinion was that Boeing wasn't ambitious enough to put a more efficient/advanced engine on the 747-8. Maybe they could have achieved better fuel economy if they had invested more in the powerplants.
  • ImpendingCynic: The_Sponge: CSB:

    I've flown first class on British Airways 747s, and after some conversations with the FAs, I quickly learned that they love working on that plane.

    /Once sat in the first row on the lower deck.
    //So I was closer to the nose than the pilots.

    I've flown that twice, and 4 or so other times with other airlines. There really is nothing flying today that compares with the front nose section of the 747. The upper deck ranks second. Nothing else comes close.

    I'm going to miss those birds.


    Ditto.

    At the time I worked for Boeing, so I would give the FAs some Boeing schwag along with some chocolates....and the stickers were the most popular items. After handing them out, I saw them in the galley, trading stickers like kids trading baseball cards.

    Taking BA to start off a European adventure always put huge smile on my face.

    /Almost sat in the upper deck in 2018.
    //But I upgraded to first class when I checked in.
    ///40th birthday trip to see the Seahawks play in London.
  • Russ1642: Flew on 747s back in 2015. They are ENORMOUS. Maybe one day I'll get to ride on the A380.


    I once took a shower on an A380.....Dubai to SFO.

    Imagine being on a 15 hour flight, and you're sad when it's over.
  • puffy999: Boeing hints in financial documents at the end of 747 production in two years

    Probably closer to reality


    probably not.
  • The_Sponge: Russ1642: Flew on 747s back in 2015. They are ENORMOUS. Maybe one day I'll get to ride on the A380.

    I once took a shower on an A380.....Dubai to SFO.

    Imagine being on a 15 hour flight, and you're sad when it's over.


    The only way I'd feel that way is if someone else was in that shower with me.

    /if you know what I mean
  • kozlo: whither_apophis: Only five airlines still have them in service, better plan a trip to Seoul or London. The 747 and 787 are the only two 7n7 I've not flown on yet

    Have you been on a 707?

    /747 yuge, 787 meh
    // I think for me it's 707 and 767 I need to get on...
    ///couple decades too late
    IV/ they're still making the 747!?


    Well... no. But they were retired out of US service by the time I started flying with any regularity
  • mrmopar5287:I don't know if Boeing lost much money on the 747-8 upgrades. It wasn't a huge overhaul of the jet, so maybe they broke even. I assume Boeing also viewed it as an investment to keep the assembly line open long enough to win the bid on the replacement Air Force One.

    These two planes (A380 and 747-8) were almost like the DC-10 and L-1011 rivalry in the 70s and 80s. Two companies built trijets, and neither of them seized enough of the market to turn a profit. Both jets failed. I think Boeing would have been more successful if the A380 hadn't been built and maybe we'd see the 747-8 continue for another decade. My opinion was that Boeing wasn't ambitious enough to put a more efficient/advanced engine on the 747-8. Maybe they could have achieved better fuel economy if they had invested more in the powerplants.


    FTAThe strategy would have been successful, had the 747-8 not been bedeviled by early mismanagement, blowing its budget and deadlines, said Richard Aboulafia, an analyst with Teal Group.The Chicago-based company has lost about $40 million for each 747 since 2016, when it slowed production to a trickle, making just six jets a year, Jefferies analyst Sheila Kahyaoglu estimated.
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