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  • Researchers also looked at why exactly good governments fail. They found the collapse of good governments was often triggered by the rise to power of amoral leaders -- leaders who ignored the social contract and abandoned their society's ideals.

    I'm pretty sure they're saying that Trump has lost the mandate of heaven. Good thing the following paragraph bears no similarity to the current situation.

    Such betrayals often precipitated or accompanied rising inequality, concentration of political power, tax evasion, crumbling infrastructure and the decline of bureaucratic institutions -- a pattern researchers suggest can be observed in modern societies.
  • I'm not scared.  My glasses can make fire.
  • Well, duh.

    In a democracy or any representative government, the only social cohesion is the social contract. The leaders govern because the people ALLOW them to govern. In exchange for pay, housing, and a job with virtually no oversight and no real requirements, the leaders are required only to ensure the people have security, employment opportunities, a stable economy, and reasonable laws reasonably applied.

    Individuals who break that contract lose their cushy jobs. Governments who break the contract lose their nations.
  • If we look on the bright side, we've never been a society ruled by principles of good governance.

    Our constitution needed amendments to allow people to vote and have basic rights. The idea of America always being a good and just country is fiction.

    So maybe we wont fail too hard when this all collapses.
  • Absolute power corrupts absolutely.
  • I was bouncing around Wikipedia the other day and stumbled across the concept of "defensive democracy." While on its face it sounds a bit antithetical (a democracy where certain ideas are effectively outlawed) it seems like at least a partial solution to the tolerance paradox. Enshrine in the very constitution of the nation that certain ideas will never be acceptable, and those advocating them be found criminally liable, and at least you prevent the rise of an anti-democracy, wannabe dictator.

    Maybe if America does perish and succumb to its own natural tendencies, we build up the replacement in that light. "Never again."
  • Obscure Login: If we look on the bright side, we've never been a society ruled by principles of good governance.


    You literally live beneath one that has "good government" as its motto.
  • I wonder if its the same study I read the other day saying that more than half of dictatorships came from democratic societies and 80% of them went all the way before people fought back because most people have their heads up their asses/are in denial.

    Thanks to Netflix and Amazon, chances are, we'll go all the way and it wont be pretty.

    Probably not with Trump because hes farking idiot but the next Trump, surely. Anyone could be a better wannabe dictator than this dumbfark.
  • Shaggy_C: it seems like at least a partial solution to the tolerance paradox


    It's not a paradox. People just don't understand it properly.

    A tolerant person desires an outcome that maximizes tolerance at all times. But if they tolerate intolerance, that will lead to an outcome that does not maximize tolerance. Therefore in order to maximize tolerance it is in the tolerant person's interests to oppose intolerance in any form. This is not a contradiction.
  • Shaggy_C: I was bouncing around Wikipedia the other day and stumbled across the concept of "defensive democracy." While on its face it sounds a bit antithetical (a democracy where certain ideas are effectively outlawed) it seems like at least a partial solution to the tolerance paradox. Enshrine in the very constitution of the nation that certain ideas will never be acceptable, and those advocating them be found criminally liable, and at least you prevent the rise of an anti-democracy, wannabe dictator.

    Maybe if America does perish and succumb to its own natural tendencies, we build up the replacement in that light. "Never again."


    Maybe we should bring back Ostracism.  If you can get X number of people to vote for ostracizing someone, they are unceremoniously dumped outside the border and not allowed to come back for 10 years.

    A bit of Sortition wouldn't hurt either.
  • I've been trying to put together a vague plan in case of economic/societal collapse. Mrs Kitty and I have a couple months worth of food, some water filters, and enough books/crafts to keep us occupied for the first couple months of insanity if we really need to hunker down. The neighbors are pretty cool and seem more likely to help garden the area than kill us.
  • Well, duh. The founding fathers didn't think someone like Trump would ever be elected President to begin with, and only honorable men would ever run for office. It turns out that our system of governance was merely only a list of suggestions. Our government is so farked up that every time we've forced a regime change in another country to compel democracy, not a single system of government mirrors ours. Because they know our system sucks.
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  • Shaggy_C: I was bouncing around Wikipedia the other day and stumbled across the concept of "defensive democracy." While on its face it sounds a bit antithetical (a democracy where certain ideas are effectively outlawed) it seems like at least a partial solution to the tolerance paradox. Enshrine in the very constitution of the nation that certain ideas will never be acceptable, and those advocating them be found criminally liable, and at least you prevent the rise of an anti-democracy, wannabe dictator.

    Maybe if America does perish and succumb to its own natural tendencies, we build up the replacement in that light. "Never again."


    This is what Germany did after the war. Nazi paraphenalia, books, and so on, are explicitly illegal to own outside teaching environments and slogans and gear will put you in prison. I have no issue with this. Americans have a bizarre idea of 'freedom,' and it comes to bite us in the ass.
  • So the message is "Good is dumb. Brutal regimes forever! Blood for the Blood God!"?
  • AAAAGGGGHHHH: So the message is "Good is dumb. Brutal regimes forever! Blood for the Blood God!"?


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  • I guess it's a good thing we've only ever been ruled by average governance at best. >_>
  • The Bronze Age Collapse - Before the Storm - Extra History - #1
    Youtube KkMP328eU5Q
  • Why have a system of checks and balances when significant portions of that checks and balance can't farking do their jobs?  Folks focus on the President, while convincing themselves their individual representative is the shining light of Congress.  It's not just the farking President that is terrible.

    People love to suggest that they're the bosses of the politicians, that they have the power to vote them out if they're ineffective.  Motherfarkers, how long would you last at a job with a 20-30% approval rating?

    We're literally stuck ping ponging back and forth between two political machines that do not care at all for the citizens of the nation.  They care about the vote the individual represents, and say anything to achieve or maintain that vote, knowing that a failure to follow through will rarely come with consequences.
  • Scorpitron is reduced to a thin red paste: Shaggy_C: I was bouncing around Wikipedia the other day and stumbled across the concept of "defensive democracy." While on its face it sounds a bit antithetical (a democracy where certain ideas are effectively outlawed) it seems like at least a partial solution to the tolerance paradox. Enshrine in the very constitution of the nation that certain ideas will never be acceptable, and those advocating them be found criminally liable, and at least you prevent the rise of an anti-democracy, wannabe dictator.

    Maybe if America does perish and succumb to its own natural tendencies, we build up the replacement in that light. "Never again."

    This is what Germany did after the war. Nazi paraphenalia, books, and so on, are explicitly illegal to own outside teaching environments and slogans and gear will put you in prison. I have no issue with this. Americans have a bizarre idea of 'freedom,' and it comes to bite us in the ass.


    Only half true. Displaying or using nazi items in a political, promotional or organizational way is illegal (even that has limits). However, owning items is quite legal and it is easy to find even at flea markets.
  • You mean pervasive corporate socialism works no better than its totalitarian brother?
  • RussianPotato: I'm not scared.  My glasses can make fire.


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