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MyStageName: WillofJ2: MyStageName: beakerxf: MyStageName: IANAL, but if she was at her house (or foster house), and if the other girls were there to attack her or cause trouble, shouldn't Ohio's Stand Your Ground laws have been on her side?
Since girl in pink had retreated and wasn't actively attacking her, my guess would be no.
She was still on the property, though, and posed a continued threat. Of course, being black negates any of her rights under stand your ground.
https://grahamlpa.com/2021/01/14/ohio-stand-your-ground-law/
Based on the new law that went into effect earlier this month, the use of deadly force in self-defense by Ohioans is now justified under the following circumstances:
The person is not the aggressor -- According to reports, a group of girls gathered at Ma'Khia's house to harass her.
The person believes they are in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm -- It looks like there are at least 3 girls ganging up on her.
The person is in a place where they have a legal right to be (i.e., they are not trespassing) -- It appears she is at her home (or foster home).
I think it would be a hard sell that the woman holding a dog on the sidewalk not engaged with her was a threat
But who knows. It will be interesting when all the details come out
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tekmo: adam6464: My question is, why do the cops always shoot center mass multiple times first?
Because that's how you kill people.
They train you to only shoot center mass. I guess head shots are too risky.
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Daedalus27: demonfaerie: Daedalus27: demonfaerie: https://twitter.com/LaceyCrisp/status/1384704607511851015
The mayor is defending the cop. The cop is going to away with this.
It was a justifiable shoot to defend the lives of others. How many stab wounds should the other girls have to take so the officer can try to disarm the suspect/victim? Don't you think the parents of the other girls might be upset if the officer stands by allowing their children to be killed while he tries to subdue the suspect/victim via taser or physical restraint?
She had a knife on her for awhile before the cops came, and there have been no reports of injuries at the scene except for the girl getting shot multiple times by a cop. If she was going to hurt or kill someone it would have happened before the cops came. There was no justification for the cop to shoot her no matter how hard you try. Even if she was in the wrong, there is still no excuse for her being killed. She was already falling over into the car, and there was at least two cops at the scene. They could have taken her down easily.
The police officer didn't have that information. He has a girl being thrown to the ground in front of him and the suspect/victim swinging a knife wildly toward another girl. It doesn't matter how peaceful or calm it had been before he arrived, he had the suspect/victim attempting to murder another girl with a knife and had to act.
rosekolodny: Daedalus27: demonfaerie: https://twitter.com/LaceyCrisp/status/1384704607511851015
The mayor is defending the cop. The cop is going to away with this.
It was a justifiable shoot to defend the lives of others. How many stab wounds should the other girls have to take so the officer can try to disarm the suspect/victim? Don't you think the parents of the other girls might be upset if the officer stands by allowing their children to be killed while he tries to subdue the suspect/victim via taser or physical restraint?
Would you say the same thing if she were you ...
Doesn't matter there was at least 2 cops on the scene. They both could have actively taken her out without shooting. He was afraid she was going to stab him, and shoots her. She didn't even acknowledge the cops were there. A teenager should not be killed by a cop, regardless if they are in the wrong or not.
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Daedalus27: demonfaerie: https://twitter.com/LaceyCrisp/status/1384704607511851015
The mayor is defending the cop. The cop is going to away with this.
It was a justifiable shoot to defend the lives of others. How many stab wounds should the other girls have to take so the officer can try to disarm the suspect/victim? Don't you think the parents of the other girls might be upset if the officer stands by allowing their children to be killed while he tries to subdue the suspect/victim via taser or physical restraint?
So what you're saying is that police training is such shiat in this country that they are utterly incapable of de-escalating scenarios that are regularly dealt with in other countries without resorting to lethal force? I totally agree with you. We should get rid of our current crop of police and try to get people who can do the job correctly because the ones we have now are, as you're implying, completely incapable of doing the actual jobs that they're meant for without murder. Thank you for making such a convincing case for us.
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RedVentrue: tekmo: adam6464: My question is, why do the cops always shoot center mass multiple times first?
Because that's how you kill people.
They train you to only shoot center mass. I guess head shots are too risky.
Everyone trains to shoot center of mass. If you are using a gun in a lethal encounter, you have no business aiming at anything else.
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Kittypie070: coyo: make it stop. please make this stop. make it stop. make it stop. make it stop. make it stop.
please please
I wish I could
[i.ytimg.com image 850x478]
I know which one the cops will shoot.
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6nome: Do we know if she had an underlying condition that would lead to her death after being shot?
This is a good point. She could have had carbon monoxide poisoning.
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rosekolodny: Daedalus27: Now, reverse the situation, would you be praising the officers restraint in subduing the suspect and arresting for her for a murder and multiple attempted murder that was captured on body camera that he could have stopped earlier if he used lethal force? Would you as the father of the dead girl in pink be praising the officer?
That kid wasn't murdering anyone. She had mosh pit momentum and a steak knife.
You don't think a steak knife can kill? You don't see a deadly threat there as she lunges to plunge her knife in the girl prone on the car hood? You didn't answer my question, I answered your hypothetical, you don't want to answer mine and just dismiss it?
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darkmythology: So what you're saying is that police training is such shiat in this country that they are utterly incapable of de-escalating scenarios that are regularly dealt with in other countries without resorting to lethal force?
The police are trained to assume every interaction with the public is potentially deadly. If you ask a cop for directions, he's wondering how you plan on killing him. They have no need for de-escalating training. A Glock de-escalates just fine. In other words, cops are cowards.
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demonfaerie: He was afraid she was going to stab him
I don't see that. He injected himself into the situation - and I mean charging in. He's a Big Strong Cop(tm) and she's a rollypolly girl. He's got a kevlar vest on. Why's he scared of a girl with a knife?
Yes, he might have actually been afraid of her and her knife. But he's Big and Dumb with a Gun (not trademarked) and all he sees is perps. Perps everywhere.
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Daedalus27: demonfaerie: Daedalus27: demonfaerie: https://twitter.com/LaceyCrisp/status/1384704607511851015
The mayor is defending the cop. The cop is going to away with this.
It was a justifiable shoot to defend the lives of others. How many stab wounds should the other girls have to take so the officer can try to disarm the suspect/victim? Don't you think the parents of the other girls might be upset if the officer stands by allowing their children to be killed while he tries to subdue the suspect/victim via taser or physical restraint?
She had a knife on her for awhile before the cops came, and there have been no reports of injuries at the scene except for the girl getting shot multiple times by a cop. If she was going to hurt or kill someone it would have happened before the cops came. There was no justification for the cop to shoot her no matter how hard you try. Even if she was in the wrong, there is still no excuse for her being killed. She was already falling over into the car, and there was at least two cops at the scene. They could have taken her down easily.
The police officer didn't have that information. He has a girl being thrown to the ground in front of him and the suspect/victim swinging a knife wildly toward another girl. It doesn't matter how peaceful or calm it had been before he arrived, he had the suspect/victim attempting to murder another girl with a knife and had to act.
rosekolodny: Daedalus27: demonfaerie: https://twitter.com/LaceyCrisp/status/1384704607511851015
The mayor is defending the cop. The cop is going to away with this.
It was a justifiable shoot to defend the lives of others. How many stab wounds should the other girls have to take so the officer can try to disarm the suspect/victim? Don't you think the parents of the other girls might be upset if the officer stands by allowing their children to be killed while he tries to subdue the suspect/victim via taser or physical restraint?
Would you say the same thing if she were your child?
I hope I could, because that suspect/victim was out of control and trying to kill someone forcing the officers to react to save the lives of others. My grief might not allow me to have that position but I hope I would be able to see the truth.
Now, reverse the situation, would you be praising the officers restraint in subduing the suspect and arresting for her for a murder and multiple attempted murder that was captured on body camera that he could have stopped earlier if he used lethal force? Would you as the father of the dead girl in pink be praising the officer?
In any other country one could assume that assume police are trained to disarm suspects who have a knife, and that getting the suspect's attention so that they have a chance to comply with an order to disarm would be the initial step to a confrontation.
The countries where a lethal response is not only likely, but expected, are the kinds of countries where travel is discouraged because returning home safe is not guaranteed.
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handsome boy model: koinbahd: OgreMagi: puffy999: koinbahd: BigGrnEggGriller: Do we know the race of the cop who shot her? If the cop is black does that change anything?
He's white
https://twitter.com/garychambersjr/status/1384665625298186243?s=21
And no it wouldn't change anything. If the person shot was white and the cop was black...it wouldn't change anything. Cops should stop shooting people period.
White people would be a lot more helpful if they were as mad at cops shooting white people as they are at black people for getting shot by cops
He reminds me of that cop who shot the guy laying down
"If you just comply nothing will happen to you."
Every time some asshole says that, I think of this.
It's hard to comply when you're givien contradictory commands.
Like the Army guy who got pepper sprayed in Virginia.
"Hands out the window...open your door/get out of the car"
How's he supposed to keep his hands out in the open and unbuckle his seatbelt and get out of the car. Almost like they give you commands that put you in harms way and give themselves cover to say "he was reaching for something / I feared for my life"
Last year I watched bodycam video of a cop holding a rifle on a suspect in a hotel hallway. The unarmed suspect was on his knees with his hands up. Instead of waiting for back-up to arrive and cuff the guy, the cop started barking at him to follow his instructions immediately and perfectly. "If you do anything other than what I say, I will kill you." Cop proceeded to turn the event into rapid-fire Simon Says -- "hands in the air" "lay flat on the ground" "put your hands behind your back" "get on your knees" "put your hands in the air" "turn to the left" "get flat on the ground." After about 30 seconds of this, the perp got behind in following instructions and the cop killed him. If history plays out, that cop is now a shift supervisor in Bradenton or some other town that loves psychopaths who have badges. I have turned mostly against capital punishmen ...
Yep, welcome to America where failure to perform stupid human tricks correctly on the side of the road will get you executed for failing to follow police "lawful" orders or instructions.
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darkmythology: Daedalus27: demonfaerie: https://twitter.com/LaceyCrisp/status/1384704607511851015
The mayor is defending the cop. The cop is going to away with this.
It was a justifiable shoot to defend the lives of others. How many stab wounds should the other girls have to take so the officer can try to disarm the suspect/victim? Don't you think the parents of the other girls might be upset if the officer stands by allowing their children to be killed while he tries to subdue the suspect/victim via taser or physical restraint?
So what you're saying is that police training is such shiat in this country that they are utterly incapable of de-escalating scenarios that are regularly dealt with in other countries without resorting to lethal force? I totally agree with you. We should get rid of our current crop of police and try to get people who can do the job correctly because the ones we have now are, as you're implying, completely incapable of doing the actual jobs that they're meant for without murder. Thank you for making such a convincing case for us.
Farking this. With actual training, a cop could have EASILY stopped her, without a gun, before she inflicted any injuries, especially life-threatening ones.
But America, for whatever reason, doesn't actually like to hold its cops to any standards.
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pheelix: Shir
pheelix: OgreMagi: SurelyShirley: List of killings by law enforcement officers by country.
The US is 27th with 34.8/10m people.
Check out those wonderful countries ahead of us.
Check out the countries right behind us. Some real shiat-holes have a better record than our own police.
List fails without Russia, China, Best Korea, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, and others.
Yeah, you're right, we'd look so much better if those countries were included.
You want to be compared to those sh*tholes and then be proud to possibly be better then them?
At that point, it's not even how low the bar can get anymore, but is there even a bar?
Oh hey, look at us now! The greatest, richest, ever most bestest country in the history of the world is better than Russia, China, Best Korea, Saudi Arabia, Turkey. Is there anything we can't accomplish???
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Daedalus27: rosekolodny: Daedalus27: Now, reverse the situation, would you be praising the officers restraint in subduing the suspect and arresting for her for a murder and multiple attempted murder that was captured on body camera that he could have stopped earlier if he used lethal force? Would you as the father of the dead girl in pink be praising the officer?
That kid wasn't murdering anyone. She had mosh pit momentum and a steak knife.
You don't think a steak knife can kill? You don't see a deadly threat there as she lunges to plunge her knife in the girl prone on the car hood? You didn't answer my question, I answered your hypothetical, you don't want to answer mine and just dismiss it?
After John Wick, we all know a trained assassin can kill someone with a farking pencil. There was at least 2 cops on scene, and neither worked together to help deescalate. One right away started to shoot after the girl who was shoved into car/pink girl's area. The first reports came in saying she had a knife, she was being attacked, and she was the one that called the cops. This video doesn't disprove those first reports. Even if she was 100% in the wrong, there was still no excuse. The girl had no farking balance, the cops could have detained her. The guy in the gray hoodie was keeping one of the girls down. He was doing it for a reason. The cop murdered that girl, and he is going to get away with it. Cops should never shoot, and ask questions later. Cops need to be trained to deescalate a situation first, and they didn't even farking try.
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Daedalus27: rosekolodny: Daedalus27: Now, reverse the situation, would you be praising the officers restraint in subduing the suspect and arresting for her for a murder and multiple attempted murder that was captured on body camera that he could have stopped earlier if he used lethal force? Would you as the father of the dead girl in pink be praising the officer?
That kid wasn't murdering anyone. She had mosh pit momentum and a steak knife.
You don't think a steak knife can kill? You don't see a deadly threat there as she lunges to plunge her knife in the girl prone on the car hood? You didn't answer my question, I answered your hypothetical, you don't want to answer mine and just dismiss it?
I am dismissing it because it's the same as asking "when did you stop beating your wife?"
The girl in pink wasn't in danger. The girl who got murdered by the cops sure was, though.
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leeksfromchichis: leeksfromchichis:
Vorpal
gd autocorrects
In that case, it was a clear threat. I was distracted by his cute white feet.
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Daedalus27: rosekolodny: Daedalus27: Now, reverse the situation, would you be praising the officers restraint in subduing the suspect and arresting for her for a murder and multiple attempted murder that was captured on body camera that he could have stopped earlier if he used lethal force? Would you as the father of the dead girl in pink be praising the officer?
That kid wasn't murdering anyone. She had mosh pit momentum and a steak knife.
You don't think a steak knife can kill? You don't see a deadly threat there as she lunges to plunge her knife in the girl prone on the car hood? You didn't answer my question, I answered your hypothetical, you don't want to answer mine and just dismiss it?
Even IF she did manage to stab the other girl (in the scenario where the cop is actually trained, and not just a dumbass thug with a gun), you do know that stab wounds are not instantly lethal, right? And in fact, if not directed in some pretty specific areas, are relatively easy to treat with modern medicine, or even basic first aid?
But again, if the cop was properly trained, it would never have gotten to even that point. Because, again, a "trained" cop should be able to overpower and disarm a farking teenage girl without lethal force, and the fact that people like you accept lethal force as a response to this situation is a big part of why America is a farking shiathole.
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Be polite walk on the right: Photo of victim shortly after being wounded:
[Fark user image image 425x233]
I don't think I've ever actually commented on this site before but I couldn't resist the need to say that this was the biggest flop of an edgelord attempt at humor I've ever seen. I'm an unapologetic dark humor guy, so it's not the context, it's the fact that this was insultingly lazy and unfunny. If you're going to insist on being an edgelord then have some pride and put in a little effort. You offend me on levels I didn't think possible.
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demonfaerie: Doesn't matter there was at least 2 cops on the scene. They both could have actively taken her out without shooting. He was afraid she was going to stab him, and shoots her. She didn't even acknowledge the cops were there. A teenager should not be killed by a cop, regardless if they are in the wrong or not.
How many stab wounds should officers allow to occur on others to try and subdue the suspect/victim without lethal force? 1, 2, 5? There was absolutely no time to act otherwise without significantly risking the death or injury of bystanders. The officer wasn't in fear for his life, he was defending the lives of others, as he is allowed to do.
darkmythology: Daedalus27: demonfaerie: https://twitter.com/LaceyCrisp/status/1384704607511851015
The mayor is defending the cop. The cop is going to away with this.
It was a justifiable shoot to defend the lives of others. How many stab wounds should the other girls have to take so the officer can try to disarm the suspect/victim? Don't you think the parents of the other girls might be upset if the officer stands by allowing their children to be killed while he tries to subdue the suspect/victim via taser or physical restraint?
So what you're saying is that police training is such shiat in this country that they are utterly incapable of de-escalating scenarios that are regularly dealt with in other countries without resorting to lethal force? I totally agree with you. We should get rid of our current crop of police and try to get people who can do the job correctly because the ones we have now are, as you're implying, completely incapable of doing the actual jobs that they're meant for without murder. Thank you for making such a convincing case for us.
In that 10 seconds from arrival to shooting the suspect/victim who was attempting to stab those other girls, how much de-escalation could have occurred? The suspect/victim bullrushes one, ignores anything going on, and is lunging at the girl in pink with a knife when she is shot. If this was another country, there would be a story about multiple victims and officers being stabbed and who knows how serious the injuries would be or potential deaths. I am not saying it isn't tragic that the suspect/victim was shot, and that I wish there wasn't other outcomes, but I also don't want to see the girl in pink dead because the officers can't act to protect her life while trying to land a taser shot on her or have to run up and tackle the suspect/victim.
This wasn't the case of poor training or tactics used. This was an officer coming on a life and death scene and acting to protect others from a person intending their death or serious injury. If there has to be someone injured or killed, it should be the aggressor attempting to harm others. Given the way the suspect/victim was lunging and stabbing at the girl in pink on the car hood, the officers only choice was to shoot the suspect/victim or allow the girl in pink to stabbed. IMO, he made the correct choice however tragic that may be.
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Skyfrog: Knife crime is a big problem in the UK, yet somehow the police there are able to disarm them and take them into custody all the time without even shooting them once, let alone 10 or 15 times. If only we knew their secrets. In this case even a taser would have immediately dropped the girl and ended the fight without killing anyone, but the first thing our cops do is yank out their guns. A bunch of kids are fighting? Better point your gun at them immediately and get ready to blow them away.
Dont even shoot in front of the girl to scare her/make her stop or try to shoot her in the leg or something. 4 bullets to the chest.
Cops think they are in a rambo movie or something.
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Daedalus27: In that 10 seconds from arrival to shooting the suspect/victim who was attempting to stab those other girls,
You are assuming that she was actually trying to stab the other girl. She was the one who called the cops and was probably trying to make sure the other girl backed the fark up. And even if she was trying, she was rather unbalanced and clumsy, so it was unlikely she would have been success in stabbing.
The cop yelling "FREEZE" might have been enough to get her attention and stop her. But we will never know because cops automatically go for the gun so they can get their "killed someone" merit badge.
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drwiki: shroom: Daedalus27: DeathByGeekSquad: LordJiro: DeathByGeekSquad: Video evidence shows that the stories circulating were not accurate.
That's not a comment on whether or not the cop should have fired his weapon. It's a reminder that just because you read it, doesn't mean it's true. She swung a knife at two people, while the prior narrative was she was unarmed.
It still shows that lethal force was far, FAR from necessary. If the pig was properly trained, he could have easily disarmed her, and he would have been a goddamn hero. But nope, because our police departments hire C-student meatheads with power fantasies and give them the bare minimum amount of 'training' before giving 'em guns and letting them loose, another child is dead.
Oh, and this comes only a couple of days after 1000+ college dickheads rioted for shiats and giggles, flipping 7 cars among other damage, and the Columbus PD just outright refused to even show up until the riot was almost over. It is one of the starkest examples yet of where the cops' priorities are.
I'll repeat:
That's not a comment on whether or not the cop should have fired his weapon.
I guess I could just go through this thread quoting all of the people who openly declared false information as fact because they couldn't be bothered to wait before spreading an emotional narrative.
It doesn't look pretty but the cop was protecting the other girl from being stabbed with a knife. He didn't have time to pull his taser. If the cop delays and the other girl was killed, the calls would be that CPD doesn't care enough to do their job. This 16 year old honors student was trying to murder another girl, and the cop had to act to stop it.
You have access to some video we don't? WTF are you talking about?
"Could have easily disarmed" is pretty ignorant. As an intro to edged weapons: Give a 3 year old a marker and try to get it back without getting written on. An adult with a knife at that distance can kill someone in seconds. The victim ...
Same question as the other asshole. Do you have access to some video of the incident that I don't? Because you're talking like you've seen some recording that I haven't seen.
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CptnSpldng: Pratchettists
That's a farkie I need to start tagging.
But to the subject at hand.
adamatari: Cops kill what, a 1000+ people a year? Even if only 1 in 10 of those is unjustified, that's a police murder every 3-4 days. I'd like to believe only 1 in 100 police murders is unjustified, but going by the news it sure seems more like 1 in 10. Nearly every week the police murder someone and get caught doing it, and most of them get away with it too.
We have a problem. I'm not sure it's even possible to fix the problem.
More than that. Hell, cops kill more people in a month than cops get killed in a year. Twice as many if we drop the accidents. I'm not saying anyone here should go out and kill one to even up the numbers or anything, but darker impulses wish that we collectively would just even it out. If they're gonna act like they get to kill us for the security of going home every night after the shift, the possibility of not doing so every day needs to be genuine.
But to put it even more specific, cops have abandoned anything resembling a duty to the public, and are little more than a petulant organized crime syndicate. They arrest what, ten million plus people a year? Ten million people go to jail on nothing more than the inclination of these people. We sure as shiat don't see that many make it to court. And something just over half a million people go to prison. Last I checked, the conviction rate once gone to trial is just shy of half. So what are we're to believe about the 95% of people who are arrested but never tried? Never convicted?
They are us. They are those of us who's story was sometimes lucky enough to not end in an extrajudicial execution that will never see anything resembling justice. Some of us will be forced to choose to plead guilt to crimes we didn't commit, or spend three years in jail without bail, and without trial on accusations that never lead to conviction. Some of us will be vilified for being the victims. Some of us will 'just' lose our jobs, our kids, our time, and our money. Some of us will just go along with it, and lose so much of our future.
And why? Because some meathead abuses the power to ruin and end lives with impunity. And we just shrug as so many people shrug look for reasons to never disrupt their comfort in life.
God damn it so much.
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